Sid: I have on the telephone Lance Lambert who has lived in Israel since 1973, and I see Lance as one of my favorite prophetic teachers. I got a hold of some of his teaching called Middle East Update, and just the most amazing things. On the last couple of days we have been talking about the misjudgment of Great Britain and the repercussion that occurred in reference to them coming against the Jew in Israel. They literally went from leading the world to being on the bottom of the pack. Lance and I both believer according to the word of God, he quoted from Joel 3 that said “In the last days God will judge nations based on one major sin, and that is” and says specifically “dividing up the land.” There could be people listening to us right now, but that’s Old Covenant, of course you have to understand what is called the Old Covenant, or the Jewish Scriptures was the ONLY Bible the first church had. The New Covenant hadn’t been put into a nice book like we have it today. What did Jesus have to say about this? Well He said the same thing in the 25^th chapter of Matthew Jesus said “That nations would either be goat nations or sheep nations based on one sin” and it says “as you have done unto the least of these My brethren.” In the Greek the brethren means “from the womb” in other words, physical brethren. Jesus hadn’t died and rose from the dead, He wasn’t talking about believers He was talking about physical Jews. “…as you have done unto the least of the physical Jews, you have done unto Me.” That’s what’s going to make the difference between a goat nation or a sheep nation. Again, a goat nation has a mind of its own against God, and a sheep nation follows the shepherd. Now Lance I would you to paint me a picture if the United States continues on its Haman course, and that’s the word I have to use, and continues to force Israel to give up more and more land because they want the land. Pain me a picture of what might happen shortly to the United States of America.

Lance: Well I can only say Sid that when the Lord spoke to me in the Philippines I was at the International Intercessors Leaders Conference there. I had a very troubled night, and I knew the Lord was going to say something. Finally I uttered a word but in it the Lord said “I have risen with fury. Don’t ask me now to stop because I’m going to judge nation after nation because of what they are doing to Israel.” Then the Lord said “I will judge them by fire, by flood, by eruptions, by earthquakes,” then He went on to say “I will touch them where it hurts the most, I will destroy their economies.” Now my feeling is, that’s only part of what that prophecy was, my feeling Sid is that things cannot go on like they are with these hurricanes, and floods, and fires. We used to think of the fire recently in California as national disaster, now it’s almost taken place on the back burner because of things like Katrina, and things like Rita and so on. Now if that’s just a picture of what’s going to happen I don’t think economically things can get any better because of the amount of money that’s going to have to flow out trying to restore and rebuild like everything else. I feel that once the Lord becomes an enemy of a nation it’s the end.

Sid: I want you talk just a little bit to those that love God, are born again Christians, but feel that the church gets all the blessings that were promised to Israel and the Jewish people, and Israel and the Jewish people get all the curses under the New Covenant.  What would you say to them?

Lance: I think it’s nonsense. I think you cannot take the blessings for one and leave the curses to the other. The thing is that the blessings and the curses belong to both. I mean if the church misbehaves, and she is, I mean when I know of one evangelical leader in the states recently saying “That God is torturer, if He really had His son crucified for our sins then He’s a torturer.” Then there’s another one in Britain just recently said, we’re talking about evangelicals, said “If Jesus died for the punishment of our sins, then God is a child abuser.” I think this is absolutely shocking, this can only bring judgment upon those churches, assemblies, or whatever who say such things. The word of God is very clear, of course they probably look upon the Old Testament as inferior, but Isaiah 53 says “That it pleased God to bruise Him.” Now in the Hebrew that word bruise is actually crush or shatter Him. That’s how much God loved you and me Sid, and how much Jesus loved us that He was prepared to die in our place.

Sid: You know Lance you mentioned this on an earlier broadcast, but I feel like I have to bring this out again. In Psalm 105 is pretty much a summary of God’s position on who should be in the land of Israel. It talks about His covenant with the Jewish people and it describes it in 3 different fashions. It uses the word: forever, then it uses the word everlasting, and then it says a thousand generations. Now I’ve always been told if God says something 2 times you better pay attention. This is 3 times in one Psalm that He is giving the land forever, everlasting, a thousand generations to the physical Jewish people. I mean how can anyone anywhere say “That’s not what God meant.”

Lance: Well a thousand generations, if we take the Jewish reckoning of 40 years it’s 40, 000 years, it’s ridiculous. It just means God is using human language to say that something is eternal and everlasting. [Laughing] Then there’s something else too, people are always coming to me and saying “Yes but the children of Ishmael are also the children of Abraham, the seed of Abraham,” but if God made a pact with Ishmael that he had absolutely kept precisely to this very day they would have become great nations, they would have become wealthy, and many other things. It’s not a mistake that they have so much of the oil and with it the wealth of the world in their hands. It’s God keeping a covenant that He made with Ishmael. Now the interesting thing is that when God made this covenant with the land it was through Abraham’s seed through Isaac not Ishmael, and through Jacob and not Esau. That’s what comes out of that Psalm 105, He says He confirmed it to Isaac, and confirmed it to Jacob. So that put’s very clearly that this is a pact that God made with our forefathers and which we feel thousands of years ago, and therefore think of it as antique. God doesn’t think of it as antique, as far as God is concerned He made it just now. So any president of the United… it sounds very mean of me to put it this way, but it doesn’t matter if he’s a believer and he reads his Bible, but if he thinks that he can contradict God almighty in a pact that He has made, he is on a collision course and the nation he leads is on a collision course with God.

Sid: Use your prophetic sanctified imagination right now, if we do not back down from a two-state solution paint me a picture of what could shortly happen to the United States of America.

Lance: Well I’m pretty sure that if the disasters that have overtaken her with increasing… just following one after the other. I think it’s going to get worse and worse till it’s catastrophic. You know it’s very interesting we all think of poor old Pharaoh and God hardening his heart, we think of him as an utterly evil man, he was highly educated, highly sophisticated man leading one of the superpowers of the day. He couldn’t let the Jews go because there were a million at least of slaves…

Sid: It’s almost the vice that the United States of America is, “We can’t support Israel and a one-state solution because we need the oil.”

Lance: Well yes and it’s not just the oil it’s just the whole approval of the world, and the money of the world as well. I mean it’s a big thing. Your State Department see’s it purely only from a human point of view they obviously don’t see it in Biblical terms.

Sid: Lance we’re out of time…

Sid: I’ll tell you what we’re seeing this happen more and more; as a matter of fact I have never lived in a lime in my entire walk in the Lord which has been over 40 years now in which I’ve seen so many Bible signs coming into place. But top it off with a dream I had recently in which Jesus said He’s coming back soon.  And I want you to know that if He’s coming back soon if He says that He is.  Now Paul McGuire is a man that God has handpicked from an intellectual viewpoint to understand the last days but from a prophetic view point to understand the last days. On yesterday’s broadcast we found out that he’s trying to get away from crazy Christians but they prophesy over him they said “Well the people that pick you up they’re are going to be Christian.”  Well, he’s in the middle of nowhere this isn’t going to happen, so what’s the first ride he catches a Pentecostal Minister. And then the second ride he catches a Bible salesman filled with big thick Black Bibles throughout his entire car.  So he asked you if you want to be born again you’re afraid you’re from New York you’re afraid you’re in the middle of cornfields and what’s this guy going to do to you. So what did you say when he says “Do you want to receive Jesus?”

Paul: So Sid what happen is I thought “Oh, he’s going to chop… literally thought he’s going to chop my head off bury me in the bushes and pray a prayer over me.”

Sid: At least you’ll have a Bible go ahead. (Laughing)

Paul: Yeah right and so we pull off on the side of the road and it’s a real short prayer. He says “Repeat after me,” I do it.   And the prayer was simply “Lord Jesus Christ,” which I said out loud “I come to You now I ask that You forgive me of my sins; I confess that I’m a sinner God.  And Jesus I invite You into my life to make me born again.”  And that was the prayer.  And I felt nothing, okay absolutely nothing. So he drives me back to the campus I go out and get drunk which is my normal habit at the evening at the campus.  And then the next morning really early these Christian’s who were witnessing to me rang the doorbell especially the girl that I thought was cute.  So we end up in the center of the campus with these giant Roman columns, and I share what happened to me hitchhiking and as I’m talking to my Christian friends a girl that I had never seen before was sitting there over listening to our conversation.  She walks up to us and then looks at me; we didn’t know who she was and she looks at me and she says “You know I was sitting here listening to you talk asking me myself the question “Is God real, does He exist.”  And then she looks at me and said “I’m a ministers daughter but I don’t know if I believe in God.”  And then she says to me and she looks at me pointblank in the eyes and she says “Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?”  For some strange reason I blurted out the words that I’ve never said in my entire life I said “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”  When I said that it was literally as if the sky cracked open and I saw God, not in a physical sense but in a spiritual sense.  In that moment it was a revolutionary overwhelming experience; in that moment I knew that all the New Age stuff, astral-states, altered states of conscientiousness; communicating with spirit guides, seeing the great white light, astral-projection, all the studies and gurus and meditation at that moment I knew that it was all false and only Christ was God.  And that revolutionized my life and set me on the journey that I’m on today.

Sid: You know Paul there’s some that can’t comprehend that, but I can comprehend that because the same thing happened to me.  Instantly I knew everything about Jesus was true.  I knew the Bible was true, and as a Jew an Orthodox Jew for that matter there’s no way and I never understood how did I know all this stuff?  But now I understand; I want to fast forward a little bit you’re at a Christian coffee house in Time Square in New York called “The Lambs Club,” and you have another encounter that’s preparing you for your future.

Paul: Yeah, well for all these years I was in the New Age movement and communicating with spirit guides I didn’t realize when I started this stuff that I was opening doors in another dimension, or the invisible realm, or spiritual realm or whatever you want to call it, to demonic beings and entities.  I didn’t understand that I was ignorant back then but I was through these occult practices; so even though I was saved I was still being harassed by spirits. And you know not Casper the friendly ghost or anything like that, but these presences that would attack me.  I mean on one hand I was very sane and rational but these where things that were going on privately in my mind.  So the minister of this church on Times Square ask me if I would like to be baptize in the Holy Spirit? And then he told me to meet him in the church library in about four days and told me to fast and pray and meditate on some scriptures which I did.  Then I meet him in the library and he places his hand on my head and he begins to pray for me.  The next thing I know I fell the power of God flooding through my being with such force that I’ve never felt this before in my entire life. And it was as if the room disappeared and I saw myself, in the spiritual realm, I saw the feet of Jesus Christ wearing sandals. And I briefly looked into His eyes and I saw the most pure being that I’d ever seen in my life before the Messiah.  But I didn’t know what to do and so I wasn’t trying to be religious all I could do was start to sob and cry, and my tears fell at His feet. And as that happened I felt this indescribable love flood my being and the power of God and the love of God supernaturally flowed through me with such power and force that I began to sob.  Then I opened my eyes and I looked into the minister’s eyes and he said “Paul did God baptize you in the Holy Spirit?” And I said “Yes He did.”  At that moment the Lord, Yeshua, set my heart on fire with the flame and that flame over 35 years ago has never ceased to burn Sid even to this day.

Sid: Well, speaking of a flame God his made you a prophet you know things that are going to happen in the future and you’ve actually been called by God to warn believer’s about what you see.  Tell me some of the things you’ve seen.

Paul:   Well the Lord has lead me to go into areas of research supernaturally by the Holy Spirit. In other words, He’ll lead me to go and read extensively and study extensively things that I wouldn’t necessarily normally want to pursue. One example would be based on the book I’ve written called “The Day the Dollar Died.”  It’s also one of the topics in the three DVD series your offering “Are You Ready for the “One World Government, One World Religion, One World Economic System?”  And the Lord spoke to me after my research on economics and the history of economics, the Federal Reserve and the dollar and so on and so forth. He prophetically spoke to me and said “The time has coming very soon when the US dollar will be devalued and we will merge into a One World Economic System and the dollar will be gone and we will go into a cashless society where we’ll receive a microchip or a biochip implant if we choose to reject Jesus and accept the anti-Christ as Lord.  So as I do all this research I’m watching George Soros the super-billionaire on the BBC. He’s talking before like 20 million people in Europe on television and he’s coming out openly and saying that the goal is to value the dollar.  And the reason they want to devalue the dollar is you can’t have a world currency if the dollar is strong.  So he said “By weakening the dollar and transferring the wealth of the middleclass into third world nations.”  Which some people sounds Christian but it’s going to end up in the hands of dictators.  Then he says “We will equalize the playing field and people will be ready to accept a one world currency.”  Now they’ve announced that this world currency will be called “A Phoenix” and it will be available by 2018. Whether or not they achieve that date I don’t know but they’re planning for a world currency to be established in 2018.

Sid: Well you know in going to your research and you have spent 30 years Paul McGuire researching the microchip and the mark of the beast but I couldn’t believe the quote you had from such credible people because you not only seeing things from a prophetic viewpoint in dreams and visions, but then you’re doing true intellectual research and matching things.  What did Ralph Nader say recently?

Paul:  Well, Ralph Nader and he’s a consumer advocate and a liberal, and he said that he has seen, he’s been in the factories where they’re manufacturing the technology for the mark of the beast.  And this is not a fanatic by any means and he claims that the technology and the mark of the beast is there and their making now and that he’s seen it.

Sid: Tell me one thing you’ve seen that would happen in the future that happened.

Paul:  God has given me like a supernatural sense of warning and deep urgency of a coming crisis and it’s like a burden; it’s more than a feeling it’s a sense of knowing before it happens.

Sid: It’s sort of like a 1929 thing?

Paul:  This is more along the lines of a cataclysmic event which will shake our nation to its core, and it will be so upsetting and physiologically traumatizing that people are going to be forced to choose between serving government like god or continually on in the Bible traditions.

Sid: So it’s a separation between the true Christian’s and the false. We’re out of time Paul.

Sid: We are learning so much truth; you see God says in His word “My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge.”  And we’re coming into not just the information age as far as natural things but the information explosion of supernatural understanding.  And I have Pastor Henry Wright on the telephone I was speaking to him all last week about the brand new addition of his book “A More Excellant Way – The Spiritual Roots of Disease – Pathways to Wholeness.”  Where he has traced just about every major disease and explained what are the spiritual roots, how to close them there’s excellent teaching in this book. And then examples of people that had similar diseases to you and how God has healed them.  Now Henry before we went on the air you were telling me a staggering fact that you put on conferences for Christians and then you poll Christians about the diseases that they have and what have you found out?

Henry:  Well, the average audience say of about 250 to 300 people in a conference that we do. When we poll the diseases from A to Z we find the average audience has over 250 different diseases in that room.  And over 5 to 600 total that means one person has more than one disease. There’s not an audience I speak to even of quote Christians that are not plagued with all manner of disease.

Sid: Well, what’s the answer?

Henry:  Well, the answer is to find out why they have the disease. Of course healing is still the children’s bread, but we talk about healing as if God were required to heal us or something. Because we see healing as part of the atonement, and that’s a debatable subject in many quarters today Sid.  There are denominations that teach that healing past away 2000 years ago with the apostles.

Sid: But what I’m concerned about is those that understand that healing is today but aren’t getting their healing.

Henry:  Well I suppose the first place to look for the answer to that is in the entire 1^st Chapter of the book of Isaiah because it’s addressed to God’s people it’s addressed to covenant people and if you read the entire 1^st chapter of the book of Isaiah it’s all about the connection between God’s people serving sin and all manner of disease.  I guess we don’t understand what serving sin is all about that’s such a horrible word isn’t it sin.  I suppose we should probably follow the newest modern profile and just call it negative emotion or psychological defect.

Sid: Or unfortunately as many people in many congregations do just ignore it.

Henry:  Well we ignore it become so one; I guess you say “Well it’s just human nature.”  I want to talk about human nature.  When God created Adam he was called a son of God; human nature is not evil but something has joined human nature which has changed our image into something different than what who God is.  If God is love and the Bible says He is love and we allow bitterness and hatred and division and schism and anger and rage to be part of our life that’s overthrowing who God is in creation.  And we don’t think that we think being angry with our brother is normal; we think hating ourself is just normal. He do like “Well, that’s just the way I am.”  I have people tell me when I come to them with a disease and I say “Are you dealing with this issue in your life?”  “Yeah, well that’s just the way I am pastor if you don’t like it get over it.”  I said “Well, what about the scripture that says from glory to glory we are being changed into His image.”  Sid I want to tell you looking down at Christianity around the world between salvation and Heaven there’s a huge gap of a wilderness of problems.  And yet in the Lord’s Prayer Jesus in teaching the disciples to pray He said “Thy will be done in Earth as it is in Heaven.” I think it’s time to bring a little bit of Heaven to Earth, what do you think?

Sid: I agree. Tell me in these audiences that have so many diseases what are the types of defects that are really behind these diseases.

Henry:  When we finished looking at the profiles of the diseases in these audiences it’s really amazing. It’s broken down, there’s always exceptions, but basically the bulk of them about 80% of them are broken down in three spirit spiritual battlegrounds. First is fear, anxiety and stress.  Those are things people are worrying about; but we always think about worrying about fear of terrorists or fear of not paying our bills.  But we sometimes are afraid of our own mother-in-laws, oh boy that’s a whole different subject.  The other area behind fear, anxiety and stress is the battleground when people have with themselves about themselves. A lot of people don’t like themselves, they feel inadequate they feel like nobody loves them. They feel like “Why were they born?”  And there’s a whole big battleground.

Sid: I’m too fat, I’m too tall, I’m too short, no one likes the way they are.

Henry:  Nobody likes the way they are; I even had people that were male that wished they were females and females that wished they were males.  I’m a male, thank God for that, if you’re a female thank God for that; that’s what God created you to be.  But we have such a battle; I have this saying “Who you are is not what you do but what you do is who you are.”  I went across so many people, so many diseases for example “Chronic fatigue syndrome, and fibromyalgia, and diabetes II for example that people are dressed up, they have what we call fabricated personalities.  We spend all of our lives conforming to the image of somebody else what they thought about us; what they said about us until we don’t even know who we are anymore.  And this is foundational to disease.  The third area that we see…

Sid: I’ll tell you what I have to go back to that “What about someone that says “You know that’s me; what do I do about it?”

Henry:  Well, first of all you can change (Laughing) I suppose what you can do about it is to go back to God in your prayer time and say “God who did You see from the foundations of the world, who am I?”  If you are unhappy in your life what you’re doing you probably made a wrong turn.  You say well, I’m too old, I want to tell you something, you can tell that to Colonel Sanders and he’ll laugh you I’m too old. You can tell that to Moses who wasted 40 years the prime of his life hiding in the backside of the desert and God called him at age 80 and he pastured the largest church in the history of mankind 3 ½ million.  You can tell him that you are too old.

Sid: You know that people speak a big game but then they look at themselves in the mirror and they forget that God says “All things are possible.”

Henry:  That’s correct, the thing about God is that you’re not stuck in your day; you’re not even stuck with who you are because God is a God of change Sid. Thank God for that, I wouldn’t want to be the old Henry for many years how about you?

Sid: Nay.

Henry: Throwing up.

Sid: For sure; let’s talk about something that’s really plaguing society let’s talk about Alzheimer’s I’m hearing more and more talk about this.

Henry:  Alzheimer’s is an autoimmune disease of the brain, we’ve been studying it for quite some time. The key to Alzheimer’s is not healing it’s prevention; now I know people don’t want to hear that it is one of the fastest growing diseases in America it’s going to increase over 400% this year alone.

Sid: Four hundred percent!

Henry:  That’s correct.

Sid: Wow.

Henry:  It is a plague and coming out of our conversation we just had a moment ago is keys to understanding Alzheimer’s you hear it being helped.  We have known that Alzheimer’s was an autoimmune disease of the brain for many years.  About 3 or 4 years ago the medical community finally defined it out of dementia and guess what they said.

Sid: What’s that.

Henry:  An autoimmune disease of the brain.

Sid: (Laughing)

Henry:  We knew that and how does it work?  Here’s how it works; what happens in Alzheimer’s is the immune system begins to form a plaque buildup of white corpuscles or eat the neurological pathways of memory recall.  A person who gets Alzheimer’s has not lost their memory; there is not a thing wrong with their soul, there is not a thing wrong with their mind.  But the pathways of memory recall are interfered with either by a eating of the pathway by the white corpuscles or a building up of the plaque which acts as an interrupter of neurological pathway flow like electricity would be and they’re not in touch with their memory. Now let’s talk about autoimmune it doesn’t make any difference say that it’s Crones or it’s multiple scoliosis or it’s whatever autoimmune disease you want to talk about.  Whenever you hear the word autoimmune it is always self versus self-conflict.  And as a person is not at peace with themselves about themselves there is a spirit of infirmity comes at the human body that causes the immune system the white corpuscles and killer cells to actually go an attack and eat.  When they eat it’s called a sclerosis of the eat the body part.  If they form a plaque it’s called nonbacterial inflammation. Now let’s talk about Alzheimer’s we call the people who get Alzheimer’s actors and actresses because these are people that have spent their entire life becoming and pleasing others.  Becoming ….you’ll find them in society, you’ll find them in churches; they’re the best servants, I mean to tell you they’ll serve you with a smile but they’ve never taken time for themselves.  They don’t even know who they are in their own personalities because their entire life has been built on others. I want to say this to you and anyone listening. He who receives the message is not greater than he who brings it; and nobody not one person even listing to this program is expendable to the welfare of another. You are as important as another person because of one scripture.  God is no respecter of persons.

Sid: So someone identifies with what you’re saying and they say “Hey, I am setting myself up for Alzheimer’s I really see it now; what can they do?”

Henry:  First of all, they’re going to have to understand it; you quoted the scripture “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” that’s in Hosea 4:6. Isaiah 5:13 says “My people have gone into captivity because they have no knowledge.”  The issue is this the Bible says this Psalm 139 “Before our body parts continue in its fashion from the dust God knew us and we are fearfully and wonderfully made and the hand of God is upon us.”  I don’t understand all this because I’m not God but God saw every person from the foundation of the world.

Sid: He also saw that we were running out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: Red hot is an understatement; I had a traditional Jewish rabbi, not just any rabbi, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. He’s host of the national TV show “Shalom in the Home” on The Learning Chanel. He was named by Talker’s Magazine as one of the hundred most important radio hosts of America. I mean he has credentials like you wouldn’t believe. He’s described by many publications as arguably the most famous traditional rabbi in America; he’s been profiled in many of the world’s leading publications including Time Magazine, Newsweek, New York Times, London Times, L.A. Times, Chicago Tribune, Washington Post; he has twice weekly columns in Jerusalem Post, the New Sun. He had a debate, if I was to pick one Jewish believer in Jesus of everyone I know throughout the world it would be Dr. Michael Brown who I’ve known for many years. You see Dr. Brown has got a PhD in near eastern languages and literature from New York University. He is president and founder of Fire School of Ministry in Concord, North Carolina which is right outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. Mike you either read, write, or speak about 15 Semitic languages. How did you happen to learn so many languages?

Michael: What happened was, this is not my fault this the fault of the rabbis, you say how’s that? Well here’s the deal, I got saved in 1971 I was not literate at that point in Hebrew or Jewish sources. I was raised in a kind of a wishy-washy Conservative home on Long Island Conservative Jewish home. I had been a heavy drug user shooting heroine, using LSD, playing drums in a rock band. God radically turned me around at the age of 16 ½ in 1971. My dad was thrilled with the change in my life, but said “Okay great you’re off drugs that’s wonderful, but you need to come back to our traditions.” So he brought me to meet the local rabbi who was fresh out of Jewish Theological Seminary, a great young man; took a real interest in me. We began to have lengthy dialogs by phone, of course I wanted to win him to the Lord the same way, and he wanted to win me back to Judaism. He began to challenge me “Mike you don’t even know Hebrew. Mike how can you tell me what to believe I’ve been studying this since I was a boy.” Then he brought me to meet some ultra-Orthodox rabbis, very religious rabbis in Brooklyn a couple of years later. I had memorized thousands of verses at that point out of the King James Bible, and I was praying hours every day and I was ready for anybody. I went to me with these rabbis and they seemed like very God fearing men, much more religious than the men in the synagogue where I grew up. Boy I mean they knew the languages and they knew the background, and it seemed like everything I threw at them they seemed to have an answer for even if some of the answers were far-fetched at least they had an answer. That really provoked me, I felt “Look I know my experience in the Lord is real, I know I’ve been transformed, I know the word seems so absolutely clear to me, but…”

Sid: Yet, I have to tell you Mike, and a Jewish person, or a Gentile person that believes in Jesus; when they first hear the apologetics or the arguments that traditional rabbis have had 2000 years to develop, it’s very overwhelming if someone has not had a personal encounter with God.

Michael: It is, look the fact is you have some very sincere people who are studying the same Bible, but they’re reading it in Hebrew, and you’re average believer is not able to read it in Hebrew. They’ve had like you said 2000 years of not believing what we believe, and have a whole system of faith and practice and many of them study for hours and hours a day. At that time I didn’t realize, but some specialize in dealing with people like me. That’s only increased, there’s a great increase in what we call counter-missionary…

Sid: But just out of curiosity how old were you when you first were taken to the rabbi?

Michael: Well the local rabbi, the Conservative rabbi I was not yet 17. I was a brand new believer…

Sid: I have to be candid with you, I don’t know how you held your own. I don’t know why he didn’t overpower you because you didn’t know Hebrew. If you were like me, you were bar-mitzvah and you read beautiful Hebrew, but you didn’t understand a word of what you read.

Michael: Listen I didn’t even know what the content of the passage was. In other words, no one ever bothered to tell me that when I was bar mitzvah’d I read from 1 Kings 18 where Elijah calls down fire from heaven [Laughing], that’s quite a passage. Nobody told me that you just went through the motions, that’s not Judaism as a whole that’s the Judaism I grew up with which was very superficial. Leonard Ravenhill, an old man of God who is with the Lord now, he used to say “A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument,” this much I knew. God had radically changed my life; Jesus in a moment of time delivered me from drugs; God brought deep conviction of sin into my own life and made me to realize how far from Him I was, and how deeply He loved me. I was transformed, He changed me; He was working in my life; He had become my Father and my Best-Friend. So if someone hit me with an argument I knew there was an answer somewhere, in point and fact I spent hours alone with God. Not immediately, but after several months in the Lord I started to get hungrier and thirstier. I remember saying to myself “I could live a clean but empty life, or I could give myself to God the way I gave myself to drugs and rock music,” which meant whole heartedly.  I began to pursue the Lord with all my heart, so by the time I had met the ultra-Orthodox rabbis when I was 18, I had been spending 5, 6, 7 hours with the Lord alone every day. I was reading the Bible 2 hours a day; I was memorizing scriptures 1 hour a day; I used to memorize 20 verses every day, that’s how hungry for God I was. I was experiencing the reality of God, so when I met with these men yes they challenged me, yes they raised good questions, yes their lifestyle also challenged me, not that it was different than mine in terms of devotion, but the fact that they were very serious religious Jews, and I grew up thinking all Judaism was superficial the way I knew it. So I was challenged by all that and I thought “Okay, when I start college I’m gonna start studying Hebrew.” When I started studying Hebrew I thought “You know I need to learn more languages to learn more background so I don’t even need to rely on the dictionaries, or commentaries; I want to be able to dig and understand on my own. The interesting thing is, that along the whole journey, even though I knew the reality of my faith, I was always wondering “What am I going to study, what I going to learn, what am I going to be confronted with that is going to cause me to question what I believe, what am I going to be hit that I don’t have an answer for? To my delight, and even surprise, the more I studied the stronger my faith became. I didn’t have to shut off my mind ever. To this day Sid, after 34 years in the Lord and writing 1,300 pages of apologetic material and having many debates with rabbis; to this day I can tell you, the more I study the more excited I get about the foundations of our faith.

Sid: Okay, we did two television shows with Dr. Michael Brown, and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, that I have literally, I mean so many credentials I don’t have time to even list all of them; so we had as good a professional traditional rabbi as possible, and as good a Messianic Jewish scholar as possible debating on the subject “Who is Jesus?” Mike why is it 2000 years ago so many people missed Jesus being the Messiah? I mean here He was in the flesh performing miracles everyone in Jerusalem knew about this rabbi from Galilee that walked in signs and wonders, and people said He was the Messiah. Why did a group of Jews follow Him, and a group of Jews, a larger group, not follow Him at that time?

Michael: Well the fact is that’s the way it’s been in our history Sid. Picture this we come out of Egypt with the greatest display of national miracles, public national display in world history. God demonstrates that He alone is God; He brings us out of Egypt, He brings us through the sea; He speaks from Mt. Sinai in such a way that the whole nation can hear, and the whole nation says “Whatever He said we’re gonna do.” Within 40 days many of them, the majority are breaking the very first commandment and worshipping an idol. Out of that generation only 2 make it into the promise land, and the rest die because of unbelief and…

Sid: Yes, but most of them were not as knowledgeable as say a traditional rabbi 2000 years that from age 3 or 4 starts memorizing and studying the Jewish scriptures.

Michael: Some of those people did come to follow Yeshua, some were believers, but many times He is more than we are asking for. In other words, we want a Messiah who will come according to our plan and make the world a better place and make us all happy and take away trouble and war. On a certain level in the Messianic age we’ll experience a lot of that when it is fully realized on the earth. Jesus came and upset the religious apple cart; He is a threat to our authority systems; He is a threat to our religious tradition, and what happened was despite the tremendous sincerity of so many of these men, and rabbinic Judaism was really in its formative stages then, but despite the sincerity of so many of these men they had made the mistake of replacing the living word of God with human traditions. In their zeal to construct something in which the Jewish people could live on a national level without the presence and the prophetic word of God, they constructed an endless stream of traditions. Jesus came into conflict with those traditions, He did not come the way they were expecting Him to come, He did not come and build up their system, He came and confronted what was wrong in their system and because of that many turned against Him.

Sid: My guest LA Marzulli I’m interviewing him on his brand new book just literally off the press “On the Trail of the Nephilim. If you recall the Nephilim were the fallen angels that cohabited with the daughters of man and produced hybrid race that unfortunately were giants and evil.  Some of the things that LA has uncovered are absolutely amazing to me; tell me some of your research that you found in Peru.

LA:  Well, the Peru research Sid was absolutely just mind blowing. The reason why we went there was we knew that we could find evidence of what we believe of course are Nephilim skulls because there are many private museums in Peru.  And we zoned in on one of them, or zeroed in on one of these museums and I’ll never forget when we walked in and there in the display case were over 40 skulls just shown.  And we were able to open the display case, handle them; photograph them, test them, measure them everything that you would want to do.

Sid: Now just out of curiosity something that looks so out of this world to me really is these skulls that are elongated they’re not like human skulls.

LA:  There’s a process known as cradle head boarding or cranial deformation; cranial refers to the skull, cradle head boarding means that you’re taking an infant like less than one year old, six months old infant.  And I’ve actually seen one of these devices which were used; they would place one of them on the front of the baby and in the rear and they would bind the head; and so as the child grows it shapes the skull into an elongated like a cone head type shape.

Sid: Is it sort of like the Japanese would wrap the feet and so that they would have real tiny… some Japanese women would have very tiny feet.  Same principal, okay go ahead.

LA:  And it’s the same idea they’re manipulating bone structure.  Now when we were in Peru and we saw these skulls it became very apparent which ones were cradle head-boarded, or cranial head deformation deliberately done by human being to other human beings when they were very very small. What blew us away Sid were the skulls that we have and what we saw at the Paracas museum; these were cone head shapes or elongated type skulls.  Now a little bit of back story is needed here and this is what differentiates these skulls from the normal human skull. All of us on this planet basically have four plates; okay four plates which comprise the human skull.  They are frontal plate, the two parietal on the top of the skull and then the one in the rear called the occipital; frontal two parietal occipital one in the rear.  Many of these skulls which we saw in Peru had only one parietal plate the stitching, or they’re called sutures, which hold these plates together are very evident; you can see them with the naked eye. And on all these skulls in Peru not all the ones but the ones that we believe are possibly are the Nephilim skulls.  There is only one parietal plate; there should be a suture going down from the top of the frontal plate right in front of the skull and all of the way on the top of the head which goes back to the rear of the skull; that wasn’t there.  Not even a trace of it; not even the faintest trace of it.

Sid:   And so what is the explanation for that?

LA:  The explanation is and that’s only one feature.  The bones underneath the eyes which are called the zygomatic arch were very pronounced in many of these skulls.  The upper jaw which is known as the maxilla again very pronounced; the lower jaw the mandible very very robust.  These skulls had many anomalies, the nasal cavity for instance was a disaster area according to several medical doctors who looked at these things. On the top of the frontal plate right in the front there was sort of like a ridge the size of your little finger going all the way around it and you can’t make that from cradle head boarding; you can’t manipulate that. And the rear of the largest skull which we of course believe were the male skulls there was this heart shaped dome on the back of the top back of the skull.  Again with only one parietal plate where there should be two.  So these skulls were certainly anomalous and this where the red hair came from one of these skulls which again only had one parietal.

Sid: But what does this prove?

LA:  Well, it proves that there’s some sort of genetic manipulation going on that’s what it proves and because the Paracas culture springs into being between 3000 and 3500 years ago it fits the timeline of the diaspora; of the people leaving, or these Nephilim tribes, leaving the promise land in the wake of the conquest.

Sid: Okay, but how do we not know this is just not part of what evolutionists call the evolutionary cycle and it sum’s between an ape and a man?

LA:  We had these skulls examined by two medical doctors who told us unequivocally that these are not the skulls of apes or any other primates that they are human skulls but they are genetic differences in them.  There are differences in these skulls and we believe that these are not completely human.

Sid: Now tell me some of the other things you found in Peru.

LA:  Well, one of the places we went to was a place called Huatara and this was about 7,000 feet above sea level at the foot hills of the Andes.  And where we went was absolutely in the middle of nowhere a little small town. In the area there was a Catholic church which was built over a very old existing structure.  And when you’re in the church it’s very very dark hard to see but we saw this very complex megalithic stone work polygonal shaped, not one stone was identical to another; and yet the joinery was so perfect you could… no mortar was construction.  You couldn’t put a human hair through it and when we walked outside the church around to the rear of church or the side of the church it became very evident that there was different builders that was here. That whatever this thing was there were trapezoidal shapes, the stonework was absolutely mind boggling, mind blowing how it was shaped.  These stones are some of the weigh between 4 to 10 to 15 to 20 tons each. They’re placed there in a way that you’d be hard pressed to do it today.  The stones were polygonal; what I mean by that many different sided and those cuts go all the way back six feet in that wall.  So if you see angles of one stone, those angles traced that whole stone from beginning to the end they make up that wall.  You could create it today Sid with the tools that we have but we’re talking giant saws to cut these things without any vibration in the saw and then somehow, you know it would be very very time consuming.  And yet we see this structure 1000’s of years old and it begs the question who made them?  And even more mysterious “How did they do that without the tools that we have in the modern age?”

Sid: And as we discussed earlier this week some of these stones are what 40 tons; how did they move them?

LA:  Well, the stones and Saksaywaman and Cusco were the largest megalithic stones that we saw and some of these were as large as 120 tons.  And remember the Saksaywaman is about 12,000 feet above sea level.

Sid:  This is in Peru; go ahead.

LA:   Peru. The quarry is 40 to 60 miles away and remember the Inca did not use the wheel so this begs a question, first of all how do we quarry these things at 2000 feet below the 12,000 foot level 40 miles away?  And how the heck do we get them there and how do we shape them into these polygonal structures.   And the photographs speak louder and show a person what we’re really looking at.  Again in the modern age you might be able to do this but it would be so costly; and yet these stones are shaped, they’re mortarless there are no mortar at all they are 1000’s of years old. They are very very ancient, and no one knows where they came from, no one knows the builders and the building techniques have long ago been lost.

Sid: Tell me some of the more interesting things you found in the museums in Peru.

LA:  Well again there are some museums where the elongated or the cone head type skull is able to be viewed.  One in particular museum was the Ica Museum. This skull that was there, which we have photographs of, was found in the Chongo Necropolis and the Chongo Necropolis is right next door to Paracas, Peru.  The Paracas museum may recall is where we were able to handle the skull.  This Necropolis is seven miles it goes back into the desert seven miles; it was one of the most bleak places I’ve ever been.  It’s like the Sahara it’s just desert and as your walking through this area the grave robbers for the last 500 years have been digging in this area and the place is strewn, it’s all private it’s private land. It’s strewn with mummy wrappings and human remains and pottery shard as far as the eye could see.  It was the most bazaar place I’ve ever been in my life!  And in the Chongos, the Chongos skull was in the Ica museum it was that of a male, one parietal plate; remember that was the plate on the top of the skull.

Sid: Right.

LA:  Should be intersected with a suture from the frontal to the rear plate it’s not one parietal plate. Then on top of it it has this heart shaped mound which should not be there.  So again going back to the cradle deformation, or cradle head-boarding, where they bind the infants head at a very young age obviously with material and begin to shape the head this is not what we’re looking at.  I believe that is genetic manipulation by an outside source; that outside source being the fallen angels.  These are in my opinion Nephilim.

Sid: Now let’s go back to our institution the Smithsonian; why wouldn’t the Smithsonian have this front and center they’d have people coming from all over the world to their museum?

LA:   Well, I’ll tell you something Sid it’s really interesting when we went into Lima, and I’ll answer your question with this because it ties right into it.  I went to Lima first and the reason why I went to Lima is I wanted to see the golden mummies which I knew were on display.  These are 9 foot mummies, okay 9 footers; guess what Sid, they’re no longer there.

Sid: Why?

LA:  They’ve been taken down.

Sid: Why?

LA:  To add one thing to it we went to the National Museum where they have…where they used to have an entire room of elongated cranial deformation which we believe are Nephilim skulls cone head skulls.  A whole room, that section of the museum boarded up, closed down under renovation been that way for 4 to 6 months. I asked the people “Where are the skulls? Oh we have them, we’re going to show them at some point in time.”  The bottom line is this… the window is closing, and window is closing because it goes against the Darwinian paradigm. Which talks about the Baringian Lambridge the Bering Strait.

Sid:  As far as I’m concerned your research really throws a monkey wrench in the whole evolution concoction.

Sid: My guest is so red hot for the Messiah that I understand that she prays with a group of teenager’s every morning at 5:30 am. Now most singers I know Karen Wheaton don’t want to talk to anyone at 5:30 in the morning they would rather do this at night. How do you manage to pray at 5:30 am with these teenagers?

Karen:  Well, it was an amazing experience when the Holy Spirit called me to work with young people and much to my surprise actually. At the end of 1998 when He called me back to my home town in Hamilton, Alabama.  I had been in the ministry for over twenty years by myself and I come back to my home town of 6,000 people in the middle of nowhere and the Lord spot lights to me the youth of my city.  Sitting on the hood of their cars in the wee hours of the morning purposeless and unaware of the real God.  And He speaks to me Sid and He says “I want you to work with the youth of this community.”  Well, I explained to God why I was not the best choice to work with young people.  I was too old, not cool and way too busy in the ministry.  And Sid He gave me one statement that He knew would get me, “But what you invest in the lives of other young people you would reap in your own children.”  So with two teenage daughters I took Him up on that offer.

Sid:  Now tell me the first, the first young people you spoke to to get involved with tell me what that was like?

Karen:  It was about 7 young people in the back of a storefront church that my sister and her husband pastored.  We were in the back of that building on a Wednesday night and I went to just sort of help out I didn’t really know what God had in mind I just thought I’ll help with what I can. And with 7 kids I began to teach them that #1 there’s a real God who will come if you seek Him.  And #2 He has a reason for you breathing, there’s a reason that you’re on the earth. He has a purpose for your life and if you worship Him, you seek Him He will come and when He comes He will speak to your heart and you’ll understand why you’re living.  That’s what they did and they sought Him and He did not disappoint them He came.  And when He came those kids became addicted to His presence and Sid what you’re talking about about the 5:30 in the morning prayer meeting, that began at the end of 1998-99 when those kids came to me.  High school kids at the time and said “Miss Karen we want to pray from 5:30 to 6:30 in the morning before school starts would you come with us.”  So sometimes in the dark the sun had not even come up yet I would pull up in that parking lot and I would sometimes I’d be coming up from a road trip tired and 5:30 I would pull up and you got a whole group now 7 kids turns to 30 kids.  They’re sitting on the sidewalk waiting for me to open the door.  There were times we prayed in those early mornings His presence so thick it was indescribable, those kids prayed for God to send young people to Hamilton from the North, the South, the East and the West and Sid 30 kids has turned to 100’s of 1000’s of kids that have come now from around the world just like they asked God for.

Sid: I want them to hear one of the songs from the CD’s we’re featuring a song that I love the title “Lord You’re Holy.” What does that song mean to you?

Karen:  I love to worship Him because I love to see Him and whenever we worship Him we see who He is.  Years ago as a young girl I said to the Lord, “Lord what is it about praise that it’s so important that You command that we praise You?”  As a young girl I said “Lord, does praise have an effect on You? Does praise change You somehow?  Do You need to hear us praise You and worship You?”  I said “I’ll do it because You command it but why, why do You want us to praise You is it to change on You?”  And God spoke to me and He said “Karen nothing changes me, I’m the same yesterday, today, and forever, but praise changes you.”  When we worship Him we see Him and when we see Him we are changed forever.

Sid: Let’s worship with Karen Wheaton “Lord You’re Holy.”  Something happened to Karen when she was just devastated by the things of life and the compassion of the Messiah is literally poured out when she worships but I have to tell you something else.  When I listen to her worship many of her songs it makes me happy, it just gives me joy, it’s so infectious.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to just do two simple things; hear God’s voice for yourself and be obedient.  But there’s so many voices out there; there’s a voice of reason; there’s a voice of logic; there’s a voice of people prophesying to you; there’s a voice of there’s a need so let’s just fulfill that need.  What about my sheep hear my voice? I don’t want to settle for anything short of that.  And in 2005 Dr. Gary Whetstone had an open vision in Israel; and he saw history.  And he saw people marching throughout all of history and accomplishing their lifetime.  And some built cities, some built major, major ministries and he saw the fire burning them up and I don’t want to be like that and he doesn’t want be like that.  In this open vision Gary you saw yourself and what did God tell you?

Gary:  Awe Sid, the real of that vision was I had just finished watching people that I knew being affected by other voices and then going forward and I saw God revealing some were going to fall and everything they built on the earth destroyed.  And I’m watching this with a terror of reality and seeing that which leaders are losing and the fire that will consume what they built.  And then the next thing I’m watching this with aghast because I know these men; I watch my life.  And I’m in this open vision; I standing looking at the eastern wall of the Old City, but I am in a revelation of God completely encapsulating my life.  I’m watching now my life when God spoke to me to stand for my marriage and God restored my marriage after divorce. I watched God say when I gave up industrial engineering it went on the back on the assembly process at a corporation and speaking to me “No me, hear me; do what I say.”  And that’s all I gave myself to and watch God speak to me; I began businesses out of that obedience and they raised up to tremendous growth.  And then God spoke to me to sell them, walk out; I watched God speaking to me and me obeying Him and going on the mission field in Indonesia a major Muslim country and obeying what God spoke.  And I’m watching God speak and speak and speak and speak and speak.  Then I watched my life listening to other people for the purpose of success; plans that were implemented; ways that were brought in; things that I had adopted in ministry; activities that I brought into the church; into our world mission organization; into the Bible Colleges that we opened up around the world.  Things we did and I heard God say to me it was like all of a sudden I’m standing before the Voice of God and He says to me; “If you do not hear My Voice, I will take the candlestick out of its place and that will blow out its light.”

Sid: Now, what does that mean?

Gary:  That means the church, that means everything that God has given to me to build and establish in His Name on this earth He has no problem removing everything that I’ve given my life to serve Him to see remove it from its place on the earth and take out even that which I call “The Life of God” because it wasn’t Him.  The fear of God shock me to the core of my being.  I realized yes I do hear the Voice of God, yes I have heard the voice of God; but I can’t but hear continuously the voice of God today while it is called today.  And every day we live is today, I can’t rest on I heard God five years ago, I can’t rest on I heard God last Sunday, I must know I’m hearing God now.  If God is offering His life in me; if His life is not mine but His life in me.  The church is not mine, it’s His church; if the life of the church is not what I say it’s what He says, it’s who He is.  I mean the whole of my life just was clear and I mean Sid I was broken.  I was so broken by this reality that every department I went through and shut down every department; I sold everything that was involved with it; I had nothing to do with God’s plan.  I mean we just went like a radical severance of everything I could identify…

Sid: Just out of curiosity your wife is co-Pastor with you did she go along with all of this?

Gary:  You know Faye has found one thing to be true in God with me and that is if God has spoken it there is nothing going to stop the God who’s spoken it.  That’s where we were.  She had absolute harmony total agreement and complete commitment to everything God was speaking because she knows this life is not made up of what we accomplish. It’s not made up of what I believe God for, it’s made up of the nature of Christ in me and what He says to do through me; nothing else matters.  

Sid: Alright without revealing names you saw people that you recognized that had great ministries and you saw some of them burning up with fire. Could I ask you because you did this off the air and I didn’t ask you if you’d do it on the air without revealing who could you tell me someone who you actually saw in the vision and you went to and you told them what you saw and how they reacted?

Gary:  I went to this one ministry and I would say without a question everyone that’s in your program knows this person. I said to them this is what I experienced in God and I watched your life and what God showed me is that you walk in the anointing and power of His grace to accomplish these specific things.  But these areas I want to ask you did God say this to you?  And his response to me was this, “Gary, if I could do it all over again I would never have my finances come in the way they come in.”  I said “Wait a minute you can change this.”  He said, “It’s too late in my life the engine is too big that I have created and the way that it is funded is just going to have to continue because I have trained people to give this way.”

Sid: But what good is it if it’s going to burn with fire, so what?

Gary: Beautification that was what I shared.

Sid: You just closed… if God were to tell me today that what he’s built through me was going to burn in fire before the day over I’d start closing it down.

Gary: That was my concern; but the real is the anointing is so powerful in this man’s life.  The miracles, the demonstration of God is evident but the financial means where with things are done is not authored by God.

Sid: I’ll tell you what I’m not a prophet but I’m going to prophesy in my opinion with what’s going on in the world the ones that are going to burn with fire are probably going to go under for financial reasons even before they burn with fire; that aren’t called by God.

Gary: I mean it’s happening the destruction, the manipulation; all the things that have occurred in Christendom to allure people with deceptive practices with just error like “You give $100 you get $1,000 back.  You give a $1,000 this is a prophecy of God to bring deliverance in your life. The means of merchandising and the deception that it is there and the heinous acts of the enemy that men and women are espousing as God.  And the leadership that is affecting people is a deceptive lie; that is what is going forward and completely being consumed.  It wasn’t their works consumed it was everyone that was involved in the work was consumed. It’s everything they did was consumed.

Sid: Okay, let me take you down to a Christian housewife that’s listening to us today.  Her children are a mess, her marriage is a mess, how would this help her?

Gary:  Sid, God is the answer He said to the believing spouse “You’re unbelieving spouse is sanctified; otherwise your children would be unclean.” One believer is sufficient for a supernatural visitation of God’s power to deliver the whole house.  That means the curse that is on the children where they’ve been given away for another for destruction God has supernaturally empowered that one individual with the nature of Christ and the hearing ear of the voice of God and they will do what God’s doing and they will deliver that house.

Sid: And what about the person that has just lost their job, and they don’t know what they’re going to do and jobs are not easy to come by; how would hearing God’s voice make a difference to them?

Gary: Awe Sid the people that are in derision and mental duress under the sense of loss, loss of a house, loss of a job, loss of their cars, repossession; all the things that have such a voice that tries to bring identity and significance and value and esteem and prestige and stability in life are nothing in God. God is capable to take a prophet when the brook dries up, when the food of the raven stops coming to feed him and send him to a widow who is poorer than him and bring the miracle of provision. God’s voice if he followed the voice of man he would never found the provision of God.  But because he followed the voice of God he found all provision and the barrel of meal didn’t waste and the cruse of oil did not fail. That’s the voice of God to everyone today listening; that is hearing distress, destruction, loss, lack. God is speaking “I have the way out;” He’s speaking to you right now.  Today Hear His Voice is a course that will move you to hear clearly and take action.  I know what God’s doing; it’s a set up Sid.

Sid: I believe that, I believe that everyone that is listening to us right now if they’re a true believer they’re saying “I’ve got to hear God’s voice; I have to find out… I mean this is out of my control.”  And you are a blessed person when it’s out of your control; that means you’re ready to hear God’s voice.

Sid: Getting ready for a visitation from Heaven, that’s what my guest says his name is Shawn Bolz. I just got a hold, supernaturally I believe, of his brand new book just off the press it’s called “Keys to Heaven’s Economy, an Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.”  And in your book you say that this is God’s moment for many people to have open Heavens explain.

Shawn:  Well, I believe that God wants to put the motivation and motivator back into Christianity being with Jesus where He is that that’s our primary goal is to be with Jesus for all eternity for where He is. And I think He wants to provoke us to that by revealing what Heaven’s like now.  And He wants to provoke the world to see how good He is by showing them a glimpse of Heaven. in Heaven there’s no lack, there’s no divorce there is no need for healing there is no depression.  He wants to bring environments on the earth that look like Heaven and feel like Heaven as a foretaste of what we’re going to experience.

Sid: And you know many people they hear that description of Heaven and they say “Ah, I don’t want to be here.”  But what you’re saying is we’re here for a purpose to bring a little Heaven on earth, is that what you’re saying?

Shawn:  Absolutely.

Sid: Okay we want… there’s so many areas you deal with in your book we can just touch on some of them.  One that I was especially integrated in has to do with money because to be candid with you I see so much on quote Christian television about how we can get money, or how we can get things and how easy it is and it’s sort of taken a shift away from the Biblical concepts to greed.  Explain your take in your book because I love what you said.

Shawn:  Well, my whole perspective is that God is releasing resource so that we can be extravagant source of blessing to His purpose and to the people on the earth.  And the whole concept is that we’re going to be a people who understands that everything that we have is ours, the 10% model is a training model for people, but everything that we have is God’s, none of it is ours all that is His.  And so He may require anything that I have in my possession or that I have in my life for His glory. And that there’s a generous heart in God towards us to steward with Him and that He enjoyed creating the world, He enjoyed stewarding his resources; He enjoyed stewardship of you know putting the plants where He put them and putting the water where He put it.  And we’re supposed to enjoy stewarding our resources as well. Sometimes the way that it’s set up in the church is that there is a self-motivation with the money.  But the only way that He can entrust us with great resources that actually brings Kingdom fruit is that there would be an unselfish motive in it.    

Sid: Well, how does someone know what their motive is selfish or unselfish?

Shawn:  I think part of it is how much fruit are you bearing with your resource I think that so many people are really good at giving to organizations which is a blessing and their good at helping to support people’s visions and they are good at giving their 10% and maybe a few gifts to the poor.  But there is another aspect of it where money creates position, money creates authority and money creates…

Sid: A platform.

Shawn:  And God is about to show people how to use their finances to create position platform ministry functions for all kinds of different spheres of influence and it’s not just give your money to the church which are two very important issues but it’s also give your money away that would create a platform for Jesus to stand upon.  Maybe you’re standing there for Him as face and voice to be able to speak into the issues that are unresolved in our culture and our society.  But also other cultures and societies; I believe this message translates to the poorest parts of Ethiopia, I believe that God wants to bring a resource and wants to show people and train people in Kingdom values with whatever they’re stewarding whether it’s a little of a lot.  And that there would be an extravagant heart that you can’t out give Him when your serving His purpose He will always bring a source of provision that will continue. Even in the day of tribulation, so to speak, that the Christians are made for tribulations days; Christians are made for the day of adversity to succeed and thrive, if we’re serving His purpose.

Sid: Where does humility fit into this?

Shawn: I think there is a place that when you know that everything that you have is His and you understand that He is going to require some of the greatest resources you have. That He’s is going to say “Sew, sew these ones into this.” There is a place that it doesn’t matter if your rich or your poor or if you’re in need or your in plenty, that there is a place where Paul said “Where he counts it all loss anyways” and that just to know Jesus He just wants to know and fellowship with Jesus and His nature.

Sid: But it’s more difficult for someone that has a great deal of money then for someone that can’t put two nickels together.

Shawn:  I agree that God has been training a number of people, and when I say number I think that it’s thousands and thousands of people in rich countries. I think that He’s been training them to understand the selfishness in the inherent societies.  I think that it doesn’t…

Sid: Especially this country the United States of America.

Shawn:  And I think that when you understand the selfishness and it doesn’t make you want to become poor it makes you want to actually thrive more so that you can begin to change the face of what’s going on.  Like you have Bono who’s a singer in a group U-2, and he’s taken his place that he’s learned from the selfish world and he’s looking at world hunger. He’s saying “Our generation can cure world hunger if we just get the right education; it’s not just about finances it’s not starting a campaign about finances it’s starting a campaign about education understanding.” So he’s using his voice, his name and his fame to cure world hunger right now and that’s his whole goal, his whole life mission is to work with humanitarian efforts. I believe that many people are starting to see they’re being influenced by something that’s in our generation of the selfishness, the greed, all of those things. They’re saying “We want to do something, it’s not that we want to decrease in what we do we want to do what we do well, but we want to do it for the purpose to influence the difference the change, be agents of change for this.”

Sid: And we’re finding that this generation of young people it’s different than the previous generation; this is the heart of young people right now.

Shawn: Absolutely I think that there’s something inherent that’s saying we hate injustice. When you deal with injustice you deal with the poor, you deal with the sick, you deal with the brokenness in our society of marriage. You deal with the brokenness of what is a man, what is a woman and I think our society is calling out, crying out we need justice.

Sid: And not just our society that must be the heart of God right now.

Shawn: Absolutely.

Sid: How does God have so much love and patience with all the sins we have in America?

Shawn:   (Laughing) I can’t answer that question.         

Sid: But I’m glad that He does.  Now in your chapter and we touched on it a little bit Chapter 10 called “Extravagant giving.” You were at a conference in Canada when the Minister of Finance came to visit you. Tell us some of the things he revealed to you, especially here’s a quote “The Holy Spirit is going to lead the church to give in ways that are impossible according to human nature.”  What do you mean?

Shawn:  Well, I think it goes back to Macedonia example that I quoted earlier in there where the Macedonians gave to Paul and he explained about their generosity they gave beyond their means of giving because they understood that God would provide for them.  I think that there is going to be people who the normal human nature is not equipped to give in a sacrificial way where it actually costs and could potentially be there downfall, could potentially ruin their lives. I’m not talking about giving to big offerings that would just support one ministry; not that that’s a bad thing. I’m talking about a gift that gets so motivated by the love of God not just emotions or impulse that says “I must make the sacrifice because it’s demanding everybody because he wants to trust me with his nature and His nature is so against my nature that sometimes He requires us to choose His nature above anything else. And I believe that there’s something that’s foreign to the western world we give in a humanistic way, and He’s teaching us how to give in a Kingdom mindset that our source of God or our resources belong to Heaven first therefore our lack is His lack and our gain is His gain. It delivers us from a fear that’s resource based into a place where it’s relationship based.  So people are going to give based on their relationship they have with Heaven not based on the resources that they have available to them.

Sid: And I have to, help me out here, but I have to believe that our motivation to give is to get there’s something wrong in this picture. Shouldn’t the motivation be “God I love You there’s nothing more important than to give into your kingdom!”

Shawn:  Absolutely, I think that there’s a good part of the American dream I’ll use America as an example which is you can have big dreams here and succeed in a great way and that’s a beautiful part of America, but the bad part of America is that American dream has become a place of having you know resources that’s selfish in motive in having 2.5 kids and 2 cars and the big house, and maybe another house just as a vacation place.  And it all centers around our own selfish motives to gain something to have security in our possessions and we obvious know from all the world disasters that have happened there’s no sure security in our own possessions.  And so there’s a place where God is putting inside a generation of people the desire to change and have an identity in Heaven and in Heaven’s economy not in earth’s economy.

Sid: And that I think is an important point you just made we have to have a shift from looking at the earth’s economy to Heaven’s economy.

Shawn:  Absolutely.

Sid: To looking at it from God’s perspective and not our humanistic perspective what about what were you shown about supernatural favor?

Shawn:  Well I believe that’s been one of my… the last couple of years I have been spending time on it, and I know I wrote a little in the book. I believe that as we give first of all to the poor Isaiah 58 is real clear as we give to the poor His light shines upon us in an increased way.  So I believe that accelerates our on calling our own destiny what we’ve been given from God to partner with Jesus I believe that as we give to the poor that it accelerates us because it’s selfless and there’s no glory in it, it only brings God glory.

Sid: And you also mentioned the second area was Israel.

Shawn:  Israel as we give as the church understands the call of God on His redemptive people of Israel and the begin to sow into the Kingdom efforts of what’s God’s doing there I believe the day of the Lord accelerates.  And I believe that that’s also clear through scripture that the Kingdom world starts to understand God’s promise and Covenants over Israel and begins to not just add finances but actually resources with man-hours resources with understanding and education and giving themselves as a sacrifice is the way to Israel that it accelerates the day of Jesus coming forth.