Sid: My guest by way of the telephone is Dr. Ray Strand. He is an MD practiced in Rapid City, South Dakota. In fact I’m speaking to him at his home where he has a horse ranch there.  And for those that are just tuning in Dr. Strand would you just briefly tell us your medical background.

Ray:  Well Sid, I graduated from the University of Colorado Medical School in 1971.  And I finished my training at Mercy Hospital in San Diego, California.  And then I returned to the Black Hills of South Dakota to practice medicine.  And I’ve been in private family practice here now for over 31 years.

Sid: And on yesterday’s broadcast we pointed out that the number 3 cause of death in America, or the number 4 depending on what the statistics are or how you approach it is prescriptions, drug reactions to prescriptions.  So knowing that, looking at your book seeing all the problems people can run into should we just quit taking our medicine?

Ray:  Well Sid, that would be the last thing that you would want to do.  You know medication is very important and your doctor has to be involved in both prescribing, or discontinuing any medication.  But what I’ve… the purpose of writing the book was not scare people away from medication but to actually get them to use them more wisely and to understand that there’s an inherent risk with all medication no matter what their doctors prescribing. And becoming more proactive in understanding what drugs they’re taking and what they should be looking for so that they could avoid being part of those statistics.  Because over half of these can and should be avoided if people just knew what to do.

Sid:  Well I know that I was in a hospital and they gave me the wrong stuff and fortunately it wasn’t life threatening but it was horrible, they made a mistake. Does this happen often in hospitals?

Ray:  Well sad to say it does. This is a very sad thing and we as physicians don’t like to admit it or don’t really pay much attention but it happens all the time. In fact Sid the statistics show that over a million hospitalizations occur each year because of drug adverse drug reactions.  And other studies are showing us now that just came out in the New England Journal of Medicine that even outpatient of the prescriptions prescribed that over ¼ of the prescriptions prescribed will be accompanied by an adverse drug reaction. So this is a very common thing. Not all of them are life threatening but it happens very, very frequently.

Sid: Well, I wish more people would read your book “Death By Prescription” because there are risks that really aren’t pointed out to us that when we get our blood pressure medication, when we get cholesterol medication, when we even take antibiotics.  And you point all this out in your book especially, but the trigger word that you used is “We must be proactive.”  In other words as a doctor if I had gone to you a number of years ago you would have…and I said to you “I have this alternative medicine doctor; or I have these vitamins and herbs.” You would say; what would you say?

Ray:  Well before 9 years ago I was your typical doctor, I didn’t believe in vitamins or anything other than the drugs that I had been trained to prescribe and use. But I would have told you “I think it just creates expensive urine or it’s costing you money, it’s not worth it you can get everything you need from going and just eating good food.”  And that’s the way that I was trained and I really did not understand the health benefits that nutritional supplements can offer.

Sid: Briefly though it’s because of your wife that you changed your thinking.

Ray:  Well, it was and it always hits home and my wife has a disease called chronic fatigue fibromyalgia.  And I have lived with that all of our married life and it’s a chronic pain, a Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and her health was slowing going downhill. But in 1995 Sid she came down with a serious pneumonia. And in spite of seeing 4 different specialists and being placed on 9 different medications. She actually ended up getting through the pneumonia but left with a very serious chronic fatigue. And this went on month, after month, after month and she could only get out of bed probably one hour a day. And she’s a horse trainer by her own occupation and she couldn’t do anything. And so what happened was at that time some lady just called up and said “Gee I had some vitamins that helped my husband and maybe you’d want to consider taking them.” And Sid my wife knew how I felt about vitamins so she actually had to ask me for my permission. And I was even surprised by my response “Honey you can try anything because we’re not doing you any good.”  And I’ll tell you Sid before my eyes her health started to improve, within weeks she was better and within months she was better than she’d been in years. And I have to say it was like the Lord took a wet noodle and slapped me across the face and say “Pay attention to this; there’s something here.” And so for the last 9 years all I have done is read the medical literature trying to find out why this happened with my wife.  Was it just a miracle of the Lord or is there something in taking nutritional supplements that we can help to actually improve our health and it was something that we were just never trained in.

Sid: Give me an example beyond your wife of a patient that before 9 years ago you would have perhaps prescribed certain medications but today you say I see these tendencies in your blood tests and this is what you should do so you won’t have a disease.

Ray:  Well, the easiest one is fibromyalgia because when I did this I actually called in 5 of my worst fibromyalgia patients and I said “I don’t know what this…” Because doctors don’t have a drug, we treat symptomatically I prescribe an anti-inflammatory like a non-steroidal maybe an antidepressant something for sleep, maybe you know maybe a muscle relaxant you know symptomatic medicine because we have no treatment for fibromyalgia.  Well, once I found this I said “Look, why don’t we just try what my wife tried and I did” and every one of these patients improved.  And Sid that was amazing and I think that I’ve been able to help over 1000 fibromyalgia patients through my consultation,  my books and what I do.

Sid: Now there seems to be almost an epidemic of people with diabetes as you call it in your book insulin resistant explain.

Ray:  Well what’s happening is we’re faced now with the diabetes and obesity epidemic.  I mean the CDC, or the Centers for Disease Control, just came out with a statement last summer that a child born today runs a 30% risk of developing diabetes in their lifetime.

Sid: Why is that?

Ray:  Well it’s because of the all American diet and the lack of activity.  What we have called this healthy diet a high carbohydrate low fat diet is actually the worst diet in the world for our health.  It’s not only causing the great rise in diabetes but it’s also causing you know the obesity epidemic.

Sid: Oh, so therefore we should just do Atkins.

Ray:  Well, and I would say “No.”

Sid: No!  Well, there’s nothing left, but go ahead. (Laughing)

Ray:  What happens is carbohydrates are not the problem, it’s the high glycemic carbohydrates or the highly processed carbohydrates.  What Atkins does, he’s on the right track that carbohydrates are the problem, but then he eliminates them and puts you in a false state of starvation. And what happens is the body can’t utilize the fat and protein that you’re eating so it has to actually use a secondary fuel source and it breaks down muscle and fat to produce a secondary fuel source which are called keytones. Well, this not only is not healthy it’s dangerous and what happens is people have to realize that man you can’t eliminate the carbohydrates because that’s where all the antioxidants, the minerals and the vitamins in your fruits and vegetables.

Sid: Why don’t you just take some vitamins and won’t that just take care of it.

Ray:  Well, it helps but it’s not… see the trouble is Atkins came out with his diet in 1970… early ’70’s and it’s been around for 35 years. He’s changed it, he’s modified it but even he himself originally said “You should not be on this diet longer than 2 weeks.” And then they tried…

Sid: I don’t hear that being touted anywhere.

Ray:    No not lately it has the induction phase now and it goes up a little bit more and a little bit more.  But see when you go on the Atkins diet you basically start to use your glycogen stores, those stores in your muscle and liver for the quick sugar and which 2 or 3 days that’s gone. But when you lose a glycogen you also lose water, so you lose 6 to 8 pounds immediately within 3 days but it’s not fat lose it’s water and glycogen.

Sid: Hmm.

Ray:  As soon as you start to eat again that will come right back.

Sid: Well, I’m going to get personal; I had you look at my blood work and you said to me that I see exactly what your problem is. You said… explain that.

Ray:  Well what the problem is that we tend to spike our blood sugar too much and we abuse our insulin and it keeps having to control blood sugar and overtime Sid, we become less sensitive to our own insulin. And that’s called, insulin resistance.  Well the body compensates for that by actually making more insulin so our blood insulin levels rise.  When that happens blood pressure goes up, our triglyceride level goes up. That good cholesterol, or HDL, goes shooting down. And I do a ratio where I divide the HDL cholesterol into triglyceride which is another fat in the blood.  If it’s greater than 2 or 3 you’ve developed insulin resistance.

Sid: So I have a choice then, I can either change what I eat or I can take medication.  Which is better for me?

Ray:  Well the trouble is the insulin resistance starts years before you become diabetic or you develop heart disease. And so what happens is your arteries begin aging 1/3 faster than they should. And then what happens is by the time I diagnose diabetes and ready to treat those people… the first day I diagnosed diabetes 60% of those patients already have major cardiovascular disease; 80% of our diabetics are still dying of heart disease. Physicians need to go back and start treating these people earlier.

Sid: That’s what you mean by proactive; we’re out of time right now we’ll pickup right here on tomorrow’s broadcast. I mean he’s got things in his books that I’ve never even contemplated before like oxygen can cause your body to rust.  But the good thing is he’s a proactive physician.  He tells us what to do; I’ve not known what kind of diet to go on; I have not known what kind of vitamins.  I mean I’ve gone slight berserk on vitamins; it’s so simple in his book.

Sid:  We want everyone everywhere to be prepared so that they won’t miss out on the greatest move of God’s Spirit in history.  My guest Carlos Sarmiento had an experience; I mean how would you like to eavesdrop on a conversation between God the Father and Jesus about the end times. And hear the mandate “It’s time Son,” talking to Jesus “To get My bride.”  I mean that’s where we are right now. Carlos you’re provoking me to so much jealousy to be able to listen to that kind of discussion and then we discuss that many things you heard were actually downloaded into your spirit to be released at specific times.  A great deal of the teaching that you teach today comes from that.  But you had an encounter shortly after that at an IHOP conference where all of a sudden the presence of God was not just on you it was all over that conference, but what happened?

Carlos:  Well you know as the first time there at the IHOP Kansas City Conference did not knowing what to expect.  The only reason that I went there Sid in the first place was because after my encounter of course I was seeking the Lord for my direction and understanding what I was going through.  One day I received a piece in the mail with an invitation to go to this End-Times Prophetic Conference.  And all I could tell you was that the word End-Times Prophetic Conference jumped out of that brochure and I heard the voice of the Lord say “Son, go there and I’ll tell you what to do next.”  So that’s how I got there because the Lord says “If you go there I’ll tell you what to do next.”  I was in the place of seeking; I was asking the Lord for understanding.  And so I get to Kansas City and I’ve only felt this one other time where when I walked into the park…where I stepped onto the parking lot I could feel this rush of glory and of  beautiful presence of the Lord.  And the first time I went to that was when I first went to Pastor Benny Hinn’s service at the Atlanta Christian Center.  I had never met Mike Bickle, I had never heard of the International House of Prayer.  But it took me back to my experiences to the glory and the presence of God in the early days as a young minister.  So I remember sitting in that conference and sitting near the back of the congregation because I tried to get their early enough but to my surprise the place was already packed. I could feel, and what I felt was very very strange I felt this incredible presence but I knew that it came out of a Spirit of love, intimacy, and unity.  Those are the 3 things that really popped out to me; I could tell that there was a great love for the Lord.  There was a desire for the people to contend for intimacy and I felt this unity one. I felt that the whole congregation; the whole massive group where was about 3000 people there. They were running after the same thing; there was a spirit of agreement that’s what I was feeling.  And I remember sitting in the back and listening to the teaching and feeling the presence of the Lord. And then all of a sudden it was like something came upon me and for almost the entire service I shook and just wept and wept and thinking to myself “You got to stop this people are going to think that you’re crazy.” But I just couldn’t contain myself; and it was in that experience that I heard the Lord gave me my next set of instructions.  The Lord said “Son, I have encountered you because you’ve always been a person of intimacy; you’ve always loved Me; you’ve sought Me; you’ve got a little distracted here and there but Carlos I’m bringing you back to your first love number one.”  And then the Lord said this, “I’m asking you I want to raise you up to be one of my end-time forerunners.”  Now when I heard that I had no clue what that meant.  I just said “Lord, whatever that means yes, I’ll be a forerunner.  But the Lord said “I want you to be one of My forerunners and as a forerunner I want you to shout it out; I want you to prepare My people; I want you to prepare the church wherever I open doors for you.”  And I believe that even right now as I’m speaking to you and speaking to this audience that there are people that can hear me and hear My voice that I know that the Holy Spirit is provoking them and touching them because they want more than what they are currently experiencing. I’m here to say that there is more, there is a lot more to the life of God; there is a lot more to our purpose and our destiny and our experience in God. But we’ve got to come back and do it His way.  And so with that encounter with the Lord He said, “Carlos I’m asking you to be one of My forerunners, and I’m asking you to prepare My church and to prepare My bride.”  And He said this “My church is asleep and she’s not watchful, she’s not looking for my return and she’s not ready.”  Then it made sense to me, that’s what the Lord says, “It’s time to get Your Bride.” I began to understand that I was a member not only of the church, not only am I child, not only am I a son, not only am I part of the Body of Christ, not only am I part of the church.  But I’m also part of the Bride of Christ and there’s different levels of intimacy of relationship with God.  I believe that the highest level of intimacy is Bride ship; is that Bridal identity. And God began to show me “Carlos My church has no clue what is to be the part of the Bride of Christ.”  And that I believe is the last end-time revelation that the Holy Spirit is going to reveal to the church is Bride ship.  Bridal identity, because the greatest relationship, the most intimate relationship on the face of the earth is between a man a woman and between a husband and a wife.  That’s the most intimate relationship.  And Paul relates that he say “I speak in man’s terms but what I’m really trying to give you a spiritual truth about Christ and the church.” And in that encounter the Lord was saying “My church is asleep, she’s distracted and she’s enjoying ministry but she forgets that I Am the ministry; Carlos I Am the ministry and I’m returning My church back to her first love.” And so I’ve been on a journey every since then; and seeking the Lord to establish once again the great commandment of loving the Lord with all of my heart, mind, soul and strength.

Sid: Oh, and that’s where we left off on yesterday’s broadcast.  You were downloaded key heart issues to have the church ready for the next greatest move of God’s Spirit. And what you said in heaven, it came right out of your spirit man that something you hadn’t even pre-mediated. “No, we’re not ready!”  And you actually didn’t know what you were saying, but the church isn’t ready. So you said “That there were key heart issues that the Holy Spirit has told you to teach on.” Tell me what they are.

Carlos:  Okay, the first one I would say is intimacy with the Eternal Godhead; that’s intimacy.  That’s returning back to our first commandment; Jesus made it very clear in Mark 12:30 He said “You shall.”  He didn’t say you should, it’s a good idea.  It’s a command, He said “You shall love the Lord God with all you heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength.”  And then He then qualified it by saying “This is the first commandment.” And I believe what the Holy Spirit is doing more than anything, beyond the most… more important than miracles, more important than supernatural, more important than signs and wonders, is the church returning back to her first love.  Because when we look at church history, when we look at the Bible all of history and all of creation was about one thing, it’s about a wedding. Creation began at a wedding at the Book of Genesis.  Jesus’ first miracle in John Chapter 2 was at the wedding of Cana of Galilee. And history as we know it in Revelation 22 ends with the Spirit of God saying “And the Spirit and the Bride.”  It doesn’t say the Spirit and the church it says “The Spirit and the Bride say Come.” So we see creation, the beginning of Jesus’ ministry and then the end of human history as we know before we go into the eternal kingdom the millennial kingdom is all about God and man becoming one.  That’s what consumes the heart of God is intimacy with the Lord.

Sid: Okay, I’m a pretty practical type of person; I’m listening to you on let’s say the radio right now and I’m saying “Yes, I want that intimacy but can you give me some practical steps?” What practical steps do you take for intimacy with the Lord Carlos?

Carlos:  For me personally, I’m not allowing distractions or complacency any longer distract me from time with the Lord.  How do you spell love? You spell love with time and same thing with the Lord.  The way that we grow in our love for Jesus and love for the Lord is very… it’s the same Biblical disciplines we’ve been taught over and over again time with the Lord through prayer, worship, the word of God. But making it priority in your life.  For me because of this encounter I see the value of it; I see that I turned away from the Lord you know as far as my intimacy and my level of love of the Lord.  So what I’ve done I’ve made it a priority, the first thing in my life that I desire to major in is I desire to known as a lover of God.  How do I do that?  I spend time with the Lord.

Sid: What is your prayer life like, I’m curious take me behind that bedroom door with the door closed what are you doing?

Carlos:  I used to ask that question, you know so and so could you tell me about your prayer life?  And one of the things I realized and I’ve found and I want understood is this.  Prayer is not A-B-C-D-E-F-G do this. I believe that there are some insets in God’s words. So here’s my prayer life.  I begin my day I love beginning my day with the Psalms; so what I do is I’ll take my Bible out and I’ll read a Psalm, I’ll read a couple of Psalms and then all of a sudden a Psalm will hit me, something and I will personalize it. So when David says “One thing I have asked of the Lord that will I seek; that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life.”  So I’ll say Lord, this is my desire “Give me the heart of David, and so I’ll mediate on that, I’ll communicate, I’ll commune with that.  Because I believe that Psalms really are a revelation not only of man’s heart cry for the Lord.  I believe it’s God downloading into the heart of the prime example of a lovesick believer and David whose known to be a man after God’s own heart.  I believe it was God downloading that in David so that we can have the written example how we can seek the Lord.  And when we study the life of David it’s very simple, he just spent time with the Lord he loved to worship the Lord. So I begin my day with reading the psalms.  I speak it out loud; and as something hits me I’ll begin to mediate on that for example if I… “One thing have I asked of the Lord.”  And if I feel that the one thing portion of the scripture hits me I begin to pace around, I’ll sit down, whatever I feel, there’s no rules.  I actually begin to say “Lord make me a person of…

Sid: I’ll tell you what I’m fascinated hearing how the Holy Spirit has been training you to  have that higher level of intimacy but we’re out of time right now.  However how would you like Carlos to be your personal trainer? And the key heart issues that are going to revolutionize your walk that you will not miss this visitation.  I mean you want to be on the same rollercoaster ride down hill that you see going on in the world? That you see in a seeker sensitive church that doesn’t have a clue about what we’re talking about.

Sid: We want everyone to be red hot for the Messiah like my guest is.  His name is Akef Tayem, but Akef was raised in the Islamic faith. A Palestinian, Arab and he saw a genuine miracle. He had never seen miracles within Islam; he knew that Jesus was real.  He accepted the Lord but then his family totally disowned him.  Literally spit in his face and he was confused; he didn’t know what to do. He didn’t go on a fast; he just plain had no desire to eat.  He went over 40 days without eating. And he was so dehydrated his body started to crack. And he thought his only hope; he was out in a field was if it would rain. So he said “God please rain.” And at that he felt himself leave his body and he could see his body; he didn’t even know that it was his body. And he couldn’t believe how emaciated this person was. And then he started going higher and higher and he found himself in the 3^rd heaven.  And he had an encounter with Jesus. And he came back to his body and God answered his payer, it started raining. Did you realize that God had answered your prayer at that moment Akef?

Akef:  I was so bewildered I was so excited; I know that I danced, I literally danced my way back to the road.  I mean I don’t know where this strength; I know…

Sid: I was just going to ask you “Remember the guy you saw when you were above your body you couldn’t believe you looked so awful.”

Akef:  Yes, yes and so depleted and then but it was more than water I received Sid.  Strength, I had this strength to walk back to the road which was about maybe 2 and 3 miles away. And there was a gentleman he was a barber, his name was Cornelius, matter a fact, and he saw me. He was very concerned he got out of his car and told me “What happened?  I told him and so he took me to his pastor, a Southern Baptist in Trussville, Alabama.  And I related to him what happened, and they wanted me to… they insisted that they call 911 and they take me to the hospital. And I begged them…

Sid: To the mental department. (Laughing)

Akef:  (Laughing) Yeah.  And I begged them, I said “Please, just give me 2 days and if I don’t… if you think by then I need to go to the hospital take me.”  And I told him “If you could see how I was just 2 hours ago and how I am now, you will see how I’ll be alright, I promise you I’ll be alright.”  So I told them… they tried to give me some food and of course I couldn’t eat, I got a little soup down.  And then they asked me to stay in their guest house. These are the pastor and his wife of the First Baptist Church in Trussville, Alabama. And I stayed with them a few days and the second day, the third day they saw that I was doing great and they asked me to give my testimony at their church at their congregation.  And of course, I didn’t know that you don’t do that in a Baptist Church, I mean you don’t pray for people to be healed; I don’t know and I didn’t know that. That part of too much about the denomination. And so I just told them what my experience and there was this gentleman on a wheelchair. And he just I guess he initiated, he walked towards me and I felt it’s amazing…

Sid: He rolled his wheelchair towards you?

Akef:  Yeah, he wanted to come close to me for some reason.

Sid: Okay.

Akef:  And what I felt and I told the pastor and they did too, is my right hand stayed warm, warmer than the other one.  And I mean they would touch it and it was warmer than the other one. And the pastor, as a matter of fact, he told the people before he introduced me he said “At the end you can come and touch his hand and you will see that his right hand is much warmer and redder; warmer and redder than the other hand.”

Sid: Could you see that it was redder?

Akef:   Oh yes! Oh, I felt it I felt like it was on fire.

Sid: Really?

Akef:  I felt like it was on fire.

Sid: Was it a bad or good feeling?

Akef:    Good, good.  It’s good I felt it’s the hand that touched Jesus.

Sid: Oh, oh oh.  I can’t wait to do my television show with you because I want you to lay hands on me. But go ahead.

Akef:    Praise God, and I think that’s what that gentleman wanted.

Sid: That’s why he rolled forward in his wheelchair.

Akef:  I believe so but I didn’t know because I didn’t know that God could use me in that sense. I mean I’d seen the minister pray for people. The last thing I thought is that I would pray for someone you know.  So he came close and he was looking at my hand and I let him see my hand, and it’s amazing. And he touched me and when he did I said “Father, in the name of Jesus.” I mean, just like that and the gentleman just got up; got up out of the wheelchair.

Sid: Now that was like what you thought was fake when you first became a believer when someone got out of a wheelchair, now it’s happening for you.

Akef:  It’s happening, and even just as puzzling even though I believe it it’s just as puzzling to see it. And he was a deacon, he was from what the pastor told me later he’s been a member of the church for about like 20 – 25 years. Everyone in the community knew that he’s crippled and he gets out of the wheelchair and it’s amazing. And it looks like his wife’s trying to sit him back down or something. And the gentleman just walks around the church, he walks inside of the church and then he just walks out of the door. Just walks I mean he just… and I mean it’s just amazing; it’s amazing. And of course…

Sid: Was that a small town that you were in?

Akef:  Yes, Trussville.

Sid: So I’d imagine that the word spread about the miracle.

Akef:  Yes it has. And the Assembly of God, Methodist Church, Church of God. I was getting invitations.

Sid: Now did you see other people getting healed when you prayed for them?

Akef:   Well, here’s something interesting and the gentleman’s name. I believe if there is a saint, this gentleman is a saint his name if Norris.  He owned a dairy farm, he was a member of the Assembly of God and they told me to preach for 3 nights.  I went there the first night and I was just giving my testimony; that’s all I knew to do of course.  I was giving my testimony and at the end of the service he came up to me he and his wife tears, I mean very sad. And he told me he said “I have a son, he said just about your age perhaps” and I was 20, maybe 22 at the time he’s a little bit younger than you. And he said “He left about a year ago and he went to California we haven’t heard from him.  And we don’t know what’s happening to him, we’ve been praying for him.” It’s amazing Sid, out of nowhere and of course I thought about this later, and I said “Oh my God how did I do this?”  Out of nowhere, I tell him “Sir, your son will be in this meeting before this is over.”

Sid: My goodness, you’re really putting yourself on the spot there.

Akef:  I couldn’t believe it; I couldn’t believe that I said that idea.

Sid: Where did that come from?

Akef:  I don’t know but God reveals.

Sid: (Laughing)

Akef:  You know something, it fascinated me; I told.  And you know what’s amazing though?

Sid: What’s that?

Akef:   What’s amazing is it didn’t even cross my mind Sid even that it wouldn’t happen, it didn’t cross my mind.

Sid: It just came out, you had what I call a mind by pass, it came right out of your spirit and avoided your mind. Is that right?

Akef:  Yeah, something like that.

Sid: (Laughing)

Akef:  I knew that it was going to happen, I knew; I knew that it was going to happen and all I had was 3 days for it to happen in.

Sid: Okay, I can hardly wait; did it happen?

Akef:  Sid, the next day he gets a phone call from his son in California. He puts him on a plane and the third day his son is in the service.

Sid: What did you think? I mean I can imagine what he thought, but what did you think when this happened?

Akef:  I could not, I could not stop praising God, and looking back and wondering; wondering what if I didn’t have the opportunity to know this Christ.  How sad it would have been not knowing this Jesus, this Messiah, who died for me. More than the miracles Sid, more than the miracles was that my heart, my hatred was no longer there.

Sid: Ah, what about your hatred for the Jew?

Akef:  It was gone Sid, it was…

Sid: For the Jew? I mean you were taught your whole life they were your enemies!

Akef:  Sid, I would have loved to have seen a Jew and I would have run and kissed his neck if I could.  It left, there was no hatred. To me that was perhaps the greatest thing because I had to carry this, I had to carry this pain.  And I didn’t know that it was pain until after it was gone.

Sid: You must have a great great desire for all people to know this Jesus but especially people from the Islamic faith.

Akef:  True.

Sid: I would imagine it must almost break your heart when you see so many people that don’t see Jesus for who He is.

Akef:  And that is perhaps; that is perhaps the saddest thing for a Muslim and the greatest thing for a Christian. Because I see after my experience when I started going to churches now I would see the Christians there praising God and in my mind it would always occur to me I would say “Do you really appreciate, do you really know the opportunity that you have? Do you really know what a great, what a great privilege?

Sid: You know coming from a traditional Jewish background I understand what you’re saying we just don’t take our belief for Jesus for granted. And that’s what you’re saying the way that so many people here in America they call themselves Christians.

Akef:  Yes.

Sid: Listen we’re out of time I have so much more to talk to you about. God has given you… I absolutely believe Akef that God has given you the same supernatural wisdom where you knew this young man was going to come from California in 3 days. You have that supernatural wisdom to present the gospel to Muslims. And we’ll talk a little bit about it tomorrow.

 

Sid: Well my guest is Jonathan Bernis; you’re familiar with him from “Jewish Voice With Jonathan Bernis.”  Jonathan and I go back many many years. I’m reminded of a time that we had a meeting of leaders of Jewish believers in the Messiah. At this meeting Jonathan said “I feel like God is directing me to go to the former Soviet Union to evangelize.”  And you laid out a little bit of a plan because you hadn’t done it; you didn’t know what to expect, and it was really shot down but I loved the idea.  Jonathan and I went to the former Soviet Union several times and you… how did you even come up with the concept to go there and do a special event of Jewish music and dance for the Jewish Community?  I know it came from God but how did it happen?

Jonathan: Sid, just reflecting back on the whole experience it was a process that began with a need that I identified which was the plight of Soviet Jews.  Then the conviction in my heart the conviction that the Lord dropped in my heart that He wanted me to be involved in this somehow.  Out of obedience and faith I went to Russia back in 1990 just out of… I walked in the light that I had and that many many Jewish people that were very open of the gospel which led to more trips back and forth.  And then the Lord spoke to me very clearly on an airplane in 1992 and said “Go back to my people and proclaim the good news.”  And I was reading Matthew 24:14 where Yeshua was saying that “Before end will come the gospel has to go to every ethnos.”  In Greek the word ethnos which is translated nation is people group.  And so understanding that the gospels to the Jew first I simply went back in faith and this plan unfolded. It’s all about faith Sid; I have to tell you the Bible’s so clear “Without faith it’s impossible to please God.”  The fight of every believer is the fight of faith. And it really was the call of God and the response in faith that brought this all about.

Sid: Well, I want to take you back to the first night there were advertisements. I was with you, and there were some Messianic Jewish music groups.  That first night we didn’t know what to expect; so we ran ads.  And it’s never been done before it’s a foreign country you need translators.  The auditorium was packed, and then when you gave the altar call explain that moment.  Because I know what happened inside of me I was there, but you explain that moment of what happened inside of you.

Jonathan:  Well, you’re right none of us knew what to expect; I had these dreams of these nightmares of an empty hall and this was a 4,000 seat hall.  I have all my friends there including you and Joyce. And I’m thinking that this is going to be a disaster and I’m going to be embarrassed.  The enemy will do that, but to our amazement the hall was packed we had to turn people away.  And when the time came in the music for me to share I just went out with a microphone and with a spot light.  And I told people how the Lord had changed my life.  I shared some scriptures; very simple scriptures about the Messiah standing at the door of our heart and knocking and whosoever will call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved.  And then I gave a simple invitation for people that wanted to respond to come forward.  And Sid to my shock almost the whole auditorium got out of their chairs and came down the altars; just pouring down.

Sid: But I saw something even beyond that Jonathan in addition to what’s you’re saying.  I saw Jewish people running to get saved; I’ve never seen that before in my life! (Laughing)

Jonathan: I haven’t either Sid and most of the people in that hall were Jewish; there were very few people that weren’t Jewish.  And they did they came running down the aisle with their arms outstretched tears on their faces.  And I did everything I could to fight back the tears.  Because even now as I talk about it I’m just gripped by that picture, I’ve never seen anything like it before that.  And of course the years that followed we saw football stadiums filled mostly with Jewish people open to the gospel and responding to the gospel.  Sid we’re living in remarkable days.

Sid: But you know what I want I want to see because I believe the greatest miracles; the greatest evangelism the world has ever see is about ready to happen. So I want those that are listening to be mentored by what you did and I did it right along with you because we’ve been friends for all these years.  What you did what word would you say are the major keys that allowed you to accomplish and be used by God like He used you?

Jonathan:  Well, Sid I believe that everything that we do is lasting is done by faith.  Again, we’re to fight the good fight of faith; “Without faith it’s impossible to please Him.”  It’s all about walking in faith and when we walk in faith we’re able to hear the voice of God.  And I believe the scripture teaches two ways that we can build up faith.  We can walk in faith and actually grow in faith. The first one is praying in other tongues.  I love in the Book of Jude where we have this warning against those that have been sensual which means to become sense controlled.  Controlled by the senses; they have been overtaken by materialism; by the cares of this world; they’ve been deceived. Because the mind; the renewed Sid are against the things of God.  And the exhortation in verse 17 “But you dear friends you don’t have to be this way; you can rise above the senses.” Verse 20 and 21 “You dear friends build yourself up in your most holy faith.”  How?  By praying in the Holy Spirit.  And I believe that’s talking about other tongues.  And one thing that we’ve done together over the years Sid is times of fasting and prayer where we spend hours praying in other languages and it builds up our faith; it releases things.

Sid: You know both of us as new believer’s in the Messiah we came in… there was the Charismatic Movement was going, the Full Gospel Business Men, churches would not say go to the back room and we’ll pray for you to be baptized in the Holy Spirit and speak in a supernatural language.  It hadn’t been demoted to the backroom or out of the church.  You and I would pray days in tongues and at that time I have to tell you Jonathan I knew that it was God and I knew that it was important but I didn’t know how important it was.  Because when we pray in supernatural languages we are first of all faith; we’re prophesying our future, and we’re prophesying our future in perfect prayers with no unbelief and the devil can’t even understand what we’re saying. I am convinced that when you and I were praying in tongues all those years ago I was prophesying the ministry It’s Supernatural; you were prophesying the amazing things you’ve done over the years and we didn’t even have a clue. (Laughing)

Jonathan:   Not only that Sid but through praying in other tongues and bypassing my mind and building my spirit. Which is how we hear the voice of God by the way not with our mind; I moved into new dimensions of intercession of travail, of supplication. I had these experiences Sid as you remember where I would be brought down to the ground in travail.  I was giving birth to things that I didn’t even understand and I believe that was the preparation for the outpouring of the former Soviet Union that we both…

Sid: Others that we’re praying in tongues with us they would start travailing and it’s almost like a woman giving birth.  That’s what we were both doing we were giving birth.  But then the second key is meditating on God’s Word.  And that’s why I’m so excited to be releasing your brand new book “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures, The Lord is Peace.”    And these are scriptures that you have personally selected on having peace.  And as you explained in yesterday’s broadcast the word peace is Shalom but it means completeness in all the blessings, in all the favor; in all the promises of God.  And you have it in Hebrew and you listen to a native born Israeli speak the promises in Hebrew.  Then you have it transliterated so anyone can speak Hebrew.  And they can speak it out in the promises in the original Hebrew.  There’s something supernatural about the spoken word; I mean the whole earth was created with the words of the Living God.  But it’s being spoken in Hebrew.  It’s changing the chemistry of your body and then it’s in English and you have a CD so not only can they read it phonetically as this transliteration method that Jewish Community developed so that we could read Hebrew.  But now instantly people can read it in Hebrew.  And people are taking this book and this powerful CD; they’re going to sleep with it at night, they’re doing it during the day.  They’re making it a wonderful gift.  And the book is so beautiful it would make a beautiful book to just put on the coffee table… Jonathan tell me we did this once before on Hebrew Scriptures on healing.  Tell me what feedback you got from the people that got a hold of this kit.

Jonathan:   Sid do I have time to read a quick letter.

Sid: Go for it.

Jonathan: I got it – we had just released Adonai or Jehovah Shalom it’s brand new; but the healing one has been out for a couple of years on scriptures that confess  or proclaim the Lord is Our Healer and Health. I got a beautiful letter from a Pastor that says “He had a woman in their congregation who was dying with leukemia.  I ordered the set for her and the doctors gave her 10 to 12 days to live.  I gave her the CD and asked her to listen to it continually with our prayers, our faith in the scriptures in Hebrew God healed her.  The same doctors came in and told her that she does not have any leukemia cells at all.  Plus her body is producing the blood again and she’s not dying but will live and declare the works of the Lord.”

Sid:  If you’ve been listening this week you’re getting clues; literally you’re getting supernatural coaching.  And my guest is a coach of the supernatural of God he’s also a football coach; you’ve heard of him Coach Bill McCartney.  God used him to start Promise Keepers and I mean I’m overwhelmed they had 1.4 million men gathered to worship God in one arena. 1.4 million men from all different types of Christian backgrounds that’s a supernatural feat. You know in the Bible it says “Despise not small beginnings.” I would imagine that the nucleus of Promise Keepers began at the 6:15 AM Bible study you had with 5 guys.

Coach:  Yes, way back when I first came to Christ at the age of 33; five of us agreed, actually there was 6, 5 other guys and myself agreed to meet in a restaurant just outside of Detroit.  I was Coaching at the University of Michigan so I would drive 35 miles east into Detroit right off of the expressway we’d met an then it was so good; our time together was so good that we started to invite other guys.  And soon we were 2 tables and then there were 3 tables of guys, and then pretty soon it the only way it made any sense we were having between 25, 30, 40 guys every Tuesday morning at 6:15 that we had a speaker.  And then they weren’t going to chase us out of this restaurant because we were bringing a lot of business that they weren’t getting.  And…

Sid: What did you do at this Bible study?

Coach:  Well, it started out when there was just a few of us as we opened the word of God and just kind of shared what God was doing in each other’s lives and we were holding each other accountable.  We were sharing some of our struggles; it was kind of a accountability group but it grew to go beyond the boundaries of accountability there was so many men flocking into this restaurant.  This restaurant was just a breakfast dive and I mean it wasn’t an attractive place at all, but God was showing up and so it started up with 6 of us and then pretty soon there were 25, and 30 and then 40.  And just 60 and then every Tuesday morning there were 80 adult men gathered to hear the word of God and it went from there to 120.  And the restaurant didn’t even hold 120; it was exploding and then that’s when God showed me in men there’s a longing there’s a craving for authenticity; there’s a craving within men for a real man as a godly man. A man of real substance and fiber and strength and significance and he’s a godly man.  I got to tell you for every guy that came and came back there was at least one other guy who would come look around the room and see somebody he didn’t trust and he was out of there and he never came back.  For those that came back and surrendered their hearts to the Lord none of us have ever been the same; God’s just radically resurrected a right spirit within us.

Sid: Now that was the nucleus the beginning but how does someone go from this 120 men that are jammed into a restaurant to the 1.4 million; what happened next?

Coach:  What happened was I began cheering after some extraordinary experiences in the University of Colorado where God was just showing Himself strong in the midst of my football program.  I began sharing with men that I believe that if we went after Him we could fill stadiums with men.  So the last Saturday in July of 1990, 72 men gathered together in a small church in Boulder, Colorado and they came there to hear the vision.  And I shared with them that I believed that if we trusted God and we went after it we would see stadiums filled with men and these guys…

Sid: Now where did you get this thought from? How did that happen?

Coach: There was another guy and myself he was at the time he was the President of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes in Colorado and he invited me to speak at a fund raising banquet at Pueblo, Colorado. It was a 3 hour car ride from Boulder and on the way we were just kind of sharing our hearts together.  And I said to him his name is Dave Hordell, I said “Dave if you could do anything with your life money not withstanding what would you do?”  And he didn’t even hesitate he said “Coach he said I would disciple men one on one; I’d meet with them on street corners, coffee shops and I’d lead them into a discipline walk with Jesus Christ.”  He said “How about you Coach if you could do anything in your life what would you do?”  I said, “Dave I believe that God would fill stadiums with men and if we asked Him to do it and we went after these men.”  So he and I kind of felt that the Lord was in that and we felt that we agreed to pursue that.  And that’s how in 70 we invited just friends; he knew more guys than I did and that’s how many guys showed up.  We didn’t know at the time that it would be a Biblical number but 72 guys showed up in a church and I shared what I said and Dave shared what he said and we said “We think God’s in this, would you agree to fast and pray and let’s see what God will do.”  So the next… in the months that followed we prayed and then I took my vacation time.  A College football coach only gets 1 month a year in vacation and that’s the month of July the way that we worked it. So I took my month instead and I went and knocked on the doors of all the churches in Colorado.  If the pastor was there I sat with him and told him of our vision; if he wasn’t there I left him a leaflet and just explaining an event that we were going to have. So the last Saturday in July 1991 and a year later 4200 men showed up in the basketball arena in Boulder, Colorado.  God was all over it and God united that thing.

Sid: Why does God want this, why is God so eager for this? Why I mean why not just men and woman? What is it about men that was so special to God in this moment in history?

Coach:  Isaiah 38:19 says “A father to the children shall make known the truth.”  You know they’ve done studies.  If mom comes to faith in Jesus Christ there’s a 19% chance the whole family will.  If a teenage son comes to faith in Yeshua there is a 31% chance, it’s greater.  But if dad comes to faith in Yeshua, there is a 92% chance the whole family will.  It’s the providence of God.  The man is to be the spiritual leader in the home but the definition of a spiritual leader is a servant.  A guy that lays down his life for his family and so it’s always been in the heart of God.  But I got to tell you what was in my heart was the brotherhood of believers.  In other words, here I am a coach I understand the component of a team and how we need each other.  And so as a born again Christian who was involved in building teams what was in my heart was that the body of Christ would come together.  And never forget this, at the very first event for Promise Keepers that when there were 4200 men there it was my privilege to close out the program. I was standing at the platform looking out; 600 guys had gotten saved, the worship was off the charts. None of us had ever felt the Spirit of God in that way before; it was way beyond anything that any of us had known personally.  I mean it was electric in there and so I felt like the Lord whispered to me and He said “Coach, look at these men and tell Me what you see.  And I said “God I see guys who are excited about the gospel.” He said “Well, what else do you see?”  And I said “There almost all white guys.”  He said “You get up and tell them because see we had challenged the 4200 men if each one of you goes out and gets 1 guy a month for the next 12 months we can go from 4200 here to 50,000 in a football stadium.  In other words we can turn this into something extraordinary if we’ll just step out in faith now that God has allowed us to taste this.  Well, God said “You get up and tell them if they fill that stadium with 50,000 white guys I ain’t coming.”

Sid: Hm.

Coach:   And so I did, you know I got up and I said “God just spoke to me and told me that if we fill this stadium with 50,000 white guys He’s not coming.”  Well, I came under attack, they said “The coach, bless his heart, you know he means well but he contradicted the word of God said ‘If two or more gathered together in My name I am there.’”  But the truth is I had not contradicted the word of God because when two or more gather in His Name you gather in his character, you gather in the fullness of the Father’s heart.  And the Fathers’ heart is for all of His Sons.  See what God birthed in Promise Keepers was a bonding of the brotherhood, what God wanted was that all of His sons would come together across all boundaries.  And quite frankly Sid we unwittingly did not understand how the Messianic Community was supposed to participate in that.  When you talk about the 1.4 million men that was the first time the Messianic Community was there.   It was in the Mall in Washington DC. We all knelt, if you’ve ever seen 1.4 million men all on their faces.  Every one of us all had our face on the ground and we submitted ourselves to the Lord.  Well, it was at that event…

Sid: I’ll tell you what hold that thought, I know you’ll be back tomorrow….

Sid: My guest by way of telephone at his home in Atlanta, Georgia, Dr. Howard Morgan. I’m interviewing him on his book “Leaves From the Olive Tree” which he shows exactly how Christianity has deviated from the Judaic Biblical pattern, moved to a Greco-Roman pattern, and it was ever so subtle to the point that today you can’t tell the difference between Bible and tradition. Two thousand years ago the greatest rabbi that ever lived, His name was Yeshua. He went into the synagogue and this is what He said: “Your tradition makes void the power of God.” Why? We Jewish people for thousands of years started with a genuine act of God, but the human is you add layer and layer and layer and layer of tradition down. You deviate from the pattern. Well God said that Christianity has been around, this is in word to Dr. Howard Morgan that Christianity has been around for 2000 years. The same thing that happened to us Jewish people has happened to Christianity.  If He walked into the best churches today he would say “Your tradition has made void the power of God.” Dr. Howard Morgan on yesterday’s broadcast we were talking how the church veered little by little into Greco-Roman culture. I want you to explain how it deviated from what the pattern should have been. Where is it now, and where should it be?

Dr. Morgan: Well I think the answer to that question goes to the crux of what Greco-Roman philosophy taught. You know that man was the sum of all things, and the whole idea is summed up in, “I think, therefore I am.” So everything was all about what we think and what we feel. Into the midst of this comes the revelation of the Torah and the Brit Hachadashah in which God says “He is the center of everything.” So there is a difference between rationalism, that is “How I rationalize things,” and revelation is what God says to me. So if God speaks to me I have to lay down my understanding and trust the Lord, and then have a walk of faith by the Spirit and not by my sight. We walk in Proverbs 3 where “We trust in the Lord with all our heart and do not lean on our own understanding.” That’s completely contrary to the humanistic, if you will, came out of Greco-Roman culture particularly the Greek philosophers where everything is based on what you can see with your eyes, you’re limited to your senses. In the Spirit Jesus said “If you were born from above” now a river of living water can flow out of you, you can live by revelation. So we can either live rational lives, or revelational lives. This doesn’t mean that we will be irrational, we don’t leave our mind out we love the Lord our God with our whole mind, but our mind is submitted to the revelation of the Spirit. Then we can walk with the Living God which is the invitation of the covenants that God made with Israel through Sinai, then through the nations of the world through the resurrection of beloved Messiah that everybody is now invited into a revelation walk of faith with God.

Sid: Okay everyone is, and most real Christians would say “I agree with what Howard has said.”

Dr. Morgan: Right.

Sid: But it’s not playing out in the institution called the church. Why?

Dr. Morgan: That’s again because we go back, and I encourage all of our listeners to be students of history. Read church history, read secular history, read Jewish history and you will see how little by little political things moved people away. People vied for power and authority, they used church offices, they established institutions and organizational dynamics to control other people so that one group of the elite had the power the “Clergy,” then they kept the laity suppressed. You know in the body of Christ Sid there is no such thing as Clergy and laity. This is something that came out of the Christian religion, if we study the Torah we see that EVERYBODY had access to God. EVERYBODY had the opportunity to come to the tabernacle, or the temple, have the atonement made. They were all represented by the high priest there was not this kind of hierarchy. The priest served the purposes of God in the lives of the people. We talked… the other broadcast about how Paul was expressing his heart. He wanted to do everything by whatever way he could to bring people to maturity. You study church history you don’t see that at all, you see people dominating other people, controlling other people to the point Sid that the church was guilty of murder literally persecuting and murdering other believers because they didn’t do what they wanted them to do. They believe it the way they wanted to believe it and they became a threat to their power. “Foxe’s Book of Martyrs” is one book and that was written in the 1500’s that talks in horrendous ways about the bloodshed of the church. Of course as Jews we know what the church did to the Jewish people, our people down through the centuries and it’s still happening as you read things and reports on the internet, and churches are talking in horrendous ways about Israel.

Sid: Howie, as you talked earlier let’s bring things down to the lowest common denominator. Yes God loves the church, of course He does Jesus came to die so that the body of Messiah could be formed.

Dr. Morgan: Amen.

Sid: But, even the good churches have deviated from the pattern which is literally not by words but by action is just cutting the glory that God wants released in the church.

Dr. Morgan: Yes.

Sid: Now my heart and yours is to release that glory. So here’s what I want you to do, I want you to take me Sunday morning and you now are walking into a building called “Your Church” and take me step by step and show me what we have and where it deviated.

Dr. Morgan: Okay. I think the first thing we’re going to look at is the fact that there are pews in this building and most people are sitting back to back where we are looking at the back of someone’s head. So right away architecturally the dynamic is that everything is focused up on the platform, and then everything really on the platform then gets focused on the pulpit. So we have a pulpit centered building to create a pulpit centered experience. We are always looking for what is going to happen on the stage. The dynamic in the New Covenant is that everybody is supposed to bring a gift, everybody is supposed to be equipped and everybody is supposed to be participating. So instead of having everybody participating we have few people actively participating and most people are simply being spectators. So we go into this building where this is a “religious” spectacle taking place, a “religious” service taking place. So we go for the service instead of being equipped for service. There’s the dynamic then of… for example what we call praise and worship. So many times what we call praise and worship are song services that are structured by the clock. How many times have we been in church buildings and looked from the platform and saw this clock staring at us telling us that you have to begin at a certain time, and you have to end at a certain time because the theatre is scripted. The service is contrived and then it is controlled. Jesus said “That the children of God would be like the wind. You don’t know where it’s coming from, you don’t know where it’s going.” You can just see the effect thereof the glory of God when the Holy Spirit moves. If we have created, even in the good churches as you said, a mentality that we’re here for a service and we are going to go for an hour and a half, rather than saying “Holy Spirit come this is the day that the Lord has made.” We want to be free to allow the Holy Spirit come so that we can not cut the worship off. How many times have we and so many people said to us “I’ve been so frustrated because just as the worship was reaching a crescendo where we were about to break through into another level in the spirit somebody got up to make an announcement.” Somebody got up to do something else and we left so frustrated because of the spirit of religion wouldn’t let us in, didn’t take us to the next level. It was like having the key of knowledge but not using it and nobody was going in because the mentality of the way the Christian service is operating is according to the clock. It’s according to we’re going to do this at this time, and this at that time and people say “Yes, but if it goes too long the children… you know they get upset and they get bored and we don’t have the workers.” I say to people “Go back to your Jewish roots.” God said, I believe it’s in Deuteronomy 18, “That you know you teach your children as you go in the morning, in the evening so your children stay with you all day. If they’re hungry feed them.” “Oh no!” in some churches the board of demons shows up and says “You can’t have food in the sanctuary.”

Sid: (Laughing)

Dr. Morgan: “…but I have a hungry child.” So what if the carpet gets stained what’s more important my son or daughter staying in the presence of God in the anointing of the Holy Spirit that changes their life forever? Or we take them out to feed them because God forbid the carpet gets stained. I’ll stain the carpet!

Sid: (Laughing)

Dr. Morgan: Jesus put oil and wine right on the altar and stained the brand new carpet so that nobody can complain about the stains in the carpet because we’ve got the wrong mentality Sid of going to a service rather than being equipped for service and giving the Holy Spirit the kind of freedom that he really needs to do the deep work in people’s hearts.

Sid: You know Howie we’re out of time today, but I want you to pick up on tomorrow’s broadcast. You state because that the system because it’s Greco-Roman rather than Hebraic is almost an emperor type system.

Dr. Morgan: Yes.

Sid: Then you, I’m quoting your book, “The emperor only sees your value as you work to accomplish his goals.”

Dr. Morgan: Right.

Sid: That’s pretty explosive, but we’ll pick up right there.

Sid:  Now we’re talking this week with Sandy Teplinsky.  She is a Messianic Jewish attorney that has written the most wonderful book that every Christian in America must read must get the facts so you’ll find yourself on the right side with God.  The title of the books is “Why Care About Israel?”  And the Holy Spirit quickened a scripture to me that I haven’t talked about in years that I want to bring to your attention.  Because on yesterday’s broadcast Sandy from the book was quoting the actual history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.  It is so different than what most “Christians” even know because we’re at the mercy of the press. And the press is prejudice and we must know the historical facts and it’s in this book and you must understand this. But even with the historical facts; even with them being so overpowering; the most important issue is God.  What does God say about this that’s what I want to know!  And in Acts the 17^th chapter the 26^th verse did you know that God has the exact place where you should live; listen to this.  “He has made every nation of men to live all over the earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live.”  Another translation says “He has the exact place where He wants you to live.”  But there’s a cross reference to that scripture that is so exciting; the cross reference tells you how He determines where you should live.  It’s in Deuteronomy chapter 32 verse 8.  And it says “When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance and divided the human race He set the boundaries of the peoples according to the number of the people of Israel.”  In other words the boundaries of the Gentiles were contingent on the boundaries of Israel being correct.  And when Israel is correct then the nations will be correct.  So what is the devil tried to do?  Tries to get Israel out of place to make the whole world out of place.  When the Jews get into place that God created the whole world will be in place; Jesus will be here and praise God we don’t have to put up with the nonsense we put up right now because He will rule from Jerusalem.  Yes, He’s in our heart right now but one day He is going to rule from Jerusalem and all of the nations are going to be in place.  Now I want to leave you with one more Psalm before I get to the interview; Psalm 105 tells me God’s position on the Jew in Israel. Psalm 105 verse 8-11 God says “He forever remembers His covenant.”  Now forever is a pretty long time.  “The promise He ordained for a thousand generations.”  A thousand generations is a pretty long time.  The covenant that He made with Abraham swore to Isaac and confirmed to Jacob as a decree and to Israel as an everlasting covenant.”  That’s a pretty long time.  Listen to the words He’s using; forever, a thousand generations, everlasting covenant.  Who is it with?  Abraham, Isaac and Jacob not Ishmael, not their cousins; not the Arabs; with the Jews.  It’s an everlasting, a thousand generations, it’s forever.  What is it?  I will give the land of Canaan to you as your inherited portion.  He’s saying “I give the land Israel to the descendants; the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob forever; for a thousand generations and everlasting”  And when they are in place whoa the world is going to be in place.  Sandy Teplinsky you did a wonderful review on how we got to where we got to.  But one of the things you said which was really kind of fascinating was “The land that was promised to the Jewish people of Israel because of Arab pressure was cut down to not the 100% of the land went to the Jewish people because of Arab pressure.  Now of this 20% they want to cut it down more and make a Palestinian State and they talk about West Bank.  What is the West Bank?

Sandra:  Sid the West Bank is known in the scriptures as Judea and Samara which is since Bible times been Jewish land.  And of course today we know that there’s tremendous controversy over who will occupy that land.  Whether it’ll be turned over to the Palestinian’s to rule or whether it will remain under Jewish control.  And you know in kind of picking up just a bit where we left off yesterday, the very fact that you and I are talking today about the West Bank, Judea Samara is just evidence of another important historical reality which is that the Arab nations have kept this controversy going by their own admission in order to use the Palestinian people as a pawn.

Sid: Now since these Palestinian people most of them were not even born there they came from other countries because the Israeli’s made wonderful job opportunities for them.  Why when Jews were kicked out of the different nations and came to Israel, Israel financed them, fed them, gave them medical aid, took care of them.  Now why couldn’t the Arab nations where these “Palestinians” really came from; they didn’t come from the land of Palestine. Why couldn’t they do the same thing, they had more money than we Jews had?

Sandra:  Sure, absolutely.  You know throughout the 20^th century there has been millions of refugees as a result of wars, far greater numbers as a result of Arab refugees stemming from the Israeli war of Independence.  All those other refugees with the exception of these Palestinians have been resettled by now. However despite Arab petro dollars astronomical amount of petro dollars in Arafat’s multiple millions of dollars that money has never been spent in order to improve the lot of the Palestinians.  It has rather been spent to accommodate the rulers of the Palestinian Arab peoples and it has been spend for weapons with witch to terrorize Israel.  More than enough money has filtered into Palestinian hands to completely provide good infrastructure and housing and schools and employment opportunities.  However should that happen then the Arab nations surrounding Israel would lose much of their impetus for calling to the world’s attention a so called need to take away land from Israel.  The eventual goal of which is to completely annihilate Israel.

Sid: I know that’s the goal; you know that’s the goal.  Anyone that reads the Koran knows that’s the goal; that no one wants on the Arab side a Palestinian State in the area that their talking about.  What they want is a foothold into Israel to make all of Israel Palestine.  How can you ever have peace it that’s the objective?

Sandra:  Well you can’t and that’s why despite Yasser Arafat’s recent death; and despite the fact that Ariel Sharon has set in place his unilateral disengagement plan we have statements that was issued just recently by the temporary Palestinian. The guy in control right now Mr. Abas that says “He will settle for nothing less than the pre-1967 borders.  Which means taking away about half of Israel’s land.  Now the reason he’s saying that is because Palestinian documents that are easily available on the internet on our other sources that I mentioned in my book we document this at length.  Palestinian documents state over and over again that this obtaining of land in the so-called West Bank or in Gaza or East Jerusalem is intended as a pretext to become a launching  pad for the soon to follow complete annihilation of the Jewish State.  In other words once they get their feet in the door…

Sid: It’s a Trojan horse is what it is.

Sandra:  Exactly, and by their own admission they state that.

Sid:  And so why does Israel go along with this?  Why does the US go along with this?

Sandra:  Well, we have to remember Sid that as you and I know that Israel is primarily a nation of unregenerate precious souls that need to come…

Sid: But you have to be mashuga to negotiate with someone that says “I just want this as my launching pad to take over all of your land!”

Sandra:  Well, living with terror day and night; seeing your children blown to bits not knowing you know when Dad leaves the house in the morning Mom and the kids not knowing that he’s going to return is enough to make anybody crazy or mashugana I think.

Sid: So why is it that as I go to Paris; as I go to Vienna, I go to different parts of the world and the world hates Israel and loves the Palestinians?

Sandra:  (Laughing)

Sid: I don’t get it the Palestinians terrorist are the ones that are maiming innocent men, woman and children and the only time that happens from the Israeli side is when Israel is going after soldiers and innocent people get in the way.  I mean it’s not equal weights; I don’t get it Sandy!

Sandra:  No the ultimately this points to a devil who is intent on destroying the Jewish people because he knows that for several reasons, Israel is the apple of God’s eye. The devil hates God and he hates who God loves and what God loves.  Israel is being used as a refining tool for the Bride of Christ and so we have a devil hating Christians.  The devil knows that if he can do away with Israel he is going to do away with an essential soon to be increasingly re-grafted in portion of the Body of Messiah that is essential for…

Sid: My guest Vickie Faurie; I’m speaking to her at her home at Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.  On yesterday’s broadcast you were just finishing up Vickie. You were sharing a message from your book “Dead Men Walking” Billy Joe Daugherty’s Church in Oklahoma, Victory Center.  And you were teaching a class on this subject and all of a sudden you told me that there was just like on yesterday’s broadcast there was such a strong presence of God.  There was a release of the Holy Spirit and what happened to the people in the class?

Vickie:  Well, what happened and as we were telling those who are ready to enter into this to the river of dying to self who are embracing this and saying “I am putting everything on the altar of sacrifice; I am sacrificing it all.”  The power of God came into the room literally.  And people as they were coming forward the Spirit of God was hitting them.  And they were all laid out in the Spirit on the floor and then as others were waiting because we had a class right after that that followed it.  The Spirit of God was hitting them outside of the room and as we were trying to clear the room to bring others…

Sid: You mean they weren’t even hearing and they were falling in the Spirit outside of the room?

Vickie: Yes, the Spirit of God was so strong so they could hear parts of it but the Spirit of God was so strong that you could feel the presence and the power of God.  When you’re in the presence in the power of God you don’t have to have to hear everything perfectly.  Because when God touches it doesn’t matter what man says it’s His touch anyhow.      

Sid: And for those that are perhaps that are tuning in for the first time Vickie has an anointing similar to Kathryn Kuhlman in that people get healed all over.  She’s just speaks and without even laying hands on them.  And I believe that that’s going to be happening as you’re listening to us right now.  What did the Lord show you before we went on the air about what is going to be going on in the future in America?

Vickie: He had showed me that with America that this great shaking and everything that has been occurring that those who say to Him “Lord, we’re going to follow You we will deny ourselves; we’ll take up that cross and follow You.” That He will keep His hand upon them.  But for those who don’t there is going to be such a shaking an inflation is going to occur where the gas prices will go up; interest rates.  Everything that’s going to overwhelm people as this shaking they’re going to be overwhelmed.  You know we felt just a tad bit when the gas prices went up; we felt a tad bit when it was hitting $2 marks and various things but that is nothing compared to the pre-warnings.  But those that; core that is red hot on fire for God that says “Lord, I’m going to come after You; I’m going to deny myself, take up the cross and follow You” they will have no concern.

Sid: But what about the people that have said “No, to God not really but they had the inclination to do something and they haven’t done it and they’ve hardened themselves.  Is there a chance for those people?

Vickie:  When that’s shaking starts if they do not repent and turn and they were to lose their life through the midst of everything that is going on. There will be terrorist attacks and various things.  God is trying to awaken the church and awaken it’s people.  He has to come back for the bride without spot wrinkle and blemish.

Sid: So now is the time for a true believers to be praying and yielding to the Spirit of God and not playing religion and dying to self.

Vickie:  That’s right, these are serious times we’re living in Sid.  It’s no time to play games with God.  9/11 proved it.  God is saying “Wake up people!” Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me” in Mark 8:34  “If anyone would come after me He must.” And when He uses the word must He’s telling you “He must follow this.”  “He must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me; for whoever wants to save His life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for Me has got the gospel will save it.”  And as you said “What good is it for a man to gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul; or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?”  See our time frame here is short but eternity is for eternity and where do you want to spend eternity?  Do you want to spend it in hell or do you want to spend it in heaven; the choice comes down to you.  Decision, what is your decision?  Are you going to be red hot, on fire?  Sid brings these show across and he tells you to be red hot and on fire for God.  He’s teaching the death position; he teaches it.  He lives it and he wants the people of America and the people of Israel to see the truth.  And the truth will set them free and the only way you can be free is to walk with God your Maker.

Sid: Vickie there are a number of prayers that you have written out in your book “Dead Men Walking.”  But I believe that there are people now that are saying “I am so desperate for more of God; I am so desperate to hear God’s voice; I’m so desperate to make my life counts.  I’m not even talking about whether I go to heaven or hell I just need intimacy with you God.”  Would you lead these people in a prayer of consecration right now and I’ll repeat it after you and everyone that feels they want to pray this prayer should repeat it with me.  Because this is the time now to have intimacy with God.  Remember the 5 wise and the 5 foolish virgins?   It’s what do you want to be wise or foolish.  The foolish had the door locked.  The wise heard the bridegroom’s voice and went in.  Will you lead us in a prayer Vickie?

Vickie:  Certainly will.  Oh heavenly Father, we glorify Thy Name for You are holy.  Lord God,

Sid:  Lord God.

Vickie:  I come before You

Sid: I come before You

Vickie:  And the prayer of my heart

Sid:  And the prayer of my heart

Vickie: Is to be totally dead to self.

Sid: Is to be totally dead to self.

Vickie:  I want to surrender everything

Sid: I want to surrender everything

Vickie:  My mind.

Sid:  My mind.

Vickie:  My body,

Sid: My body,

Vickie:  my Soul,

Sid:  my Soul,

Vickie:  and my spirit.

Sid:  and my spirit.

Vickie:  I want to abide in the cross of Christ

Sid:  I want to abide in the cross of Christ

Vickie:  crucifying the flesh 

Sid:  crucifying the flesh 

Vickie:  in total surrender ship to You Lord.

Sid:  in total surrender ship to You Lord.

Vickie:  For You have commanded us Lord

Sid:  For You have commanded us Lord

Vickie:  to deny our self

Sid:  to deny our self

Vickie:  to take up our cross

Sid:  to take up our cross

Vickie:  daily

Sid: daily

Vickie:  following You

Sid:  following You

Vickie:  According to Your will

Sid:   According to Your will

Vickie:  and according to Your way.

Sid: and according to Your way.

Vickie:  So Lord I empty myself

Sid:  So Lord I empty myself

Vickie:  of all my worldly ways.

Sid:  of all of my worldly ways.

Vickie:  I will no longer be a part of this world

Sid:  I will no longer be a part of this world

Vickie: for I set myself a part

Sid:  for I set myself a part

Vickie: to reflect Christ.

Sid: to reflect Christ.

Vickie:  in me.

Sid: in me.

Vickie:  I choose

Sid:  I choose

Vickie: to be

Sid:  to be

Vickie:  a divine imitator of Christ.

Sid:  a divine imitator of Christ.

Vickie: to those around me.

Sid: to those around me.

Vickie: Lord, with great joy in my heart

Sid:  Lord, with great joy in my heart

Vickie: I take up the cross

Sid:  I take up the cross

Vickie:  of dying to all of my selfish will.

Sid:  of dying of all my selfish will.

Vickie:  And I humbly submit myself now

Sid: And I humbly submit myself now

Vickie:  in utter total obedience

Sid:  in utter total obedience

Vickie:  to You and to You alone.

Sid:  to You and You alone.

Vickie:  Lord, I seek to be absolutely

Sid:  Lord I seek to be absolutely

Vickie: surrendered into Your hands.

Sid:  surrendered into Your hands.

Vickie: in every area of my life.

Sid: In every area of my life.

Vickie: Lord, I thank You for hearing

Sid: Lord I thank You for hearing

Vickie:  hearing this prayer this day

Sid: hearing this day this day

Vickie:  and I know that Thou answers it.

Sid:  and I know that Thou answers it.

Vickie:  I worship You.

Sid:  I worship You Lord praise Your holy Name.

Vickie:  Amen.

Sid:  Amen. Well Vickie we’re just about out of time and I believe that God heard that prayer and is in process of answering it.  And great miracle ministries are being raised up.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Kevin Turner, and Kevin is President of Strategic World Impact. I’m catching up with him with his office in the Sudan, Africa areas.  And he’s at their base with his entire family there.  He works primarily in warzones; disaster areas, and where there’s Christian persecution.  Kevin you’ve got a young family; you’re a young man; why are you putting your life on the line and your family’s life on the line?  You could do very well in America; you know that and I know that; God knows that; why are you?

Kevin:  There’s a really incredible hymn that I think will sum it up for you and it’s says this.  Only one life will soon be past and only what’s done for Jesus will last.  And then the second stanza and then people forget this one.  And when it is over how glad I shall be if the lamp of my life has been burned out for Thee. 

Sid: We don’t hear things like that here in America. Tell me 3 or 4 hot spots and persecution that’s going on for Christians.  I mean you don’t have to go any further than Sudan.  I don’t understand why the world hasn’t been in an outrage over this for years they’ve been systematically murdering Christians. I don’t get it Kevin.

Kevin:   Well, unfortunately I think that the god of this world has blinded the eyes of our press and various things.  So that after all it’s just a couple million Christians who have been systematically subjected to genocide.

Sid: A couple million!?

Kevin: In the last, in the last, in fact me and my wife were counting. In the last 8 months on 5 occasions our lives had been directly spared. We had literally 26 jihadists they were posted on the roadside waiting to attack us with our PG’s, and machine gun fire. The Lord prevented that from taking place. All I can say is this, I believe the greatest thing in life would be for me to live for Jesus, and the second things is to lay my life down for Him. I believe theologically that Jesus said “Come and die” and He meant it.

Sid: Question…

Kevin: He meant it.

Sid: It’s one thing for you, wait a second Kevin, that is one thing for you, and yes He meant that.  But how come you have your family; how old are your children?

Kevin:  Well my oldest is 14 my daughter; in fact she was attacked here in Africa.  And my second daughter is 8 I’m sorry 11 and my son is 8.  And what’s really interesting about that we wrote an article me and my daughter together, my 14 year old daughter.  It’s called “Calvary’s Love” and after she was attacked my wife…

Sid: Now wait a second, why was she attacked?

Kevin:  Well, because of the country and the area of where we’re working.  It was actually an insane man who jumped out and grabbed her by the neck and began choking her.  I ran over there to rescue her and we were attacked by a mob of about 50 people.  We barely got out of there with our lives it was just me, my wife and my daughter.

Sid: Oh, why the mob attack you; I understand the crazy man but why the mob?

Kevin:  Well, they’re Muslims and I think what happened is we’re very well known that we’re Christians.  And they were beating and trying to smash our windshields on our vehicle, which I literally had to fight to get my wife and daughter into.  They were sitting inside screaming and when we finally got back to my missions compound my wife was I mean incredibly disturbed as you could imagine.  My daughter is crying and literally I mean it was probably 5:00 AM my wife had finally went to sleep and I stayed up even a little bit longer to pray.  And the nest couple of hours she woke up and said “Kevin I just want to know why; why did God allow this to happen?”  I said “Because He’s giving us the ability to understand what Calvary’s love is all about.” You see the love of the flesh only goes so far but to love people that attack your daughter, well that’s Calvary love that’s the love of Jesus.  And what we’re able to do through that is grow and the most important thing out of that entire episode for me was seeing my 14 year old daughter, she was 13 at the time weeping she just turned 14 weeping, crying; pleading that she wanted to stay. She didn’t want to leave.  My wife was ready to change the tickets and finally the Lord touched her heart we ended up staying.  When we went back to America I was scheduled to come back to Sudan and my daughter was weeping and saying “Dad you can’t go without me; you can’t go without me you got to take me, I have to go back.”  And I’m thinking “This is in the heart of a 14 year old girl who understands what Jesus meant when He said ‘Come and follow Me.’” You know what the modern lie the biggest lie in the church in America is today?

Sid: What’s that?

Kevin:  It’s called the doctrine of in expendability.  And what the pastors, preachers and evangelists have told the church in America today is.  “You’re too important to die.”

Sid: Hm.

Kevin:   “You’re too important to lay down your life” If you’re going to have good ministry it needs to be long ministry.  And as Jim Elliott wrote in his diary before he was speared to death by the Auca Indians he said “Can’t thou bear the short lived life oh my soul?”  And I thank God John the Baptist did subscribe to that false theology “I believe and therefore I live.”  And until I knew Jesus I didn’t have hope; I didn’t have anything worth living for; I didn’t have anything to die for.  But He revolutionized my life and because of that I want to live for Him and even die in His service.

Sid:  Kevin what is it like when you’re in a life threatening situation which happens to you more than we have time to discuss and you feel Jesus with you?

Kevin:  I’ll tell you this right now I sometimes almost think that I’m an adrenaline junkie because what I’ve seen is in the midst of chaos, turmoil, or when I don’t even know if I’m going to be alive tomorrow Jesus is so near.  I remember one time in fact that we were attacked by helicopter gunships.  I had my right knee opened to the bone; a bunch of people were shot and killed around me.  I ended up running 90 miles through the desert.  And as they were shooting at me rockets my back pack was blown to smithereens by a rocket.  I was crawling on my hands and knees and trying to get into these huge rocks and I remember as I clawed by way up the side of this mountain. I finally saw this crevice in these rocks I crawled in and I thought I’d be safe from this fire.  This is helicopter gunships circling us.  And literally when I crawled in that crevice in those rocks Jesus met me in there.  And this is what He said “Kevin I’ll hide you here in the cleft of the rock and I’ll cover you with My hand.” (Crying) And I’ll tell you there’s not a dime, there’s not a million dollars; there’s nothing that anyone could give me in response that knowing Jesus called me by name and He put His hand on me.  And there’s something that you get to experience when You say “Jesus Your my all and all.”  And when He’s your treasure, and of course we know He lives in heaven at the right hand of the Father; then the things of this earth grow strangely dim and it’s not about your kids; and it’s not about living for your wife, or any other thing. It’s simply this “To live is Christ, and to die is gain.”  And the only way that can be reality; the only way that you can truly say that is when Jesus is more important to you than anything.

Sid: You know I was reading that article that caused me to call you right outside of Sudan, Africa.  I’m going to quote from it; it says “A Chinese Christian who spent more than 26 years in a tiny prison cell was asked upon his release how he handled this confinement?”  His answer rocked me to the core; he said “It was like a honeymoon with Jesus.”  Do you remember when he said that Kevin?

Kevin:  Yes I did, and yes I do.  In fact I remember being there in that underground church and meeting with this precious saint. He actually was friends with Watchmen Nee; they were part of what was called the Magnificent Seven of China along with Allen Yun, and Samuel M.  And this was so that Wayne McDowell and in fact there was a book about his life called “A Stone Made Smooth.”  I’ll tell you I remember sitting there with these precious believers but before I could sit with them I had to get to the front of the church because they were calling me to the front.  It was so packed with bodies seated on the floor was the only way I could get there was to step on the hands, on the knees, on the people that were sitting there on the floor worshiping.  And I was so humbled because they weren’t looking at me say “Hey buddy you bumped me, hey you stepped on me!” they were smiling with the radiance of the Son of God.  I got to the front of there and I sat with the man who’d been in prison for 27 years.  He said that “After 12 hours of forced labor he would literally have 10 minutes outside behind his cell, and there’s only consolation in life was that he would hum “The Old Rugged Cross” to himself.  And I thought “Jesus this man knows you in a way that I only dream of.”  What I’ve seen in life Sid is this “Calamity clarifies and comfort confuses.”  When the church in America wants to say how God has blessed them they point to things.  When the church around the world wants to say how God has blessed them they point to souls.  They point to the interaction; they point to the intercourse of God in their soul and it’s so valuable.  It’s such a precious thing it blows my mind.

Sid: You know the most popular message on American Christian TV today is “Give to my ministry and you will have such abundance of money and wealth.”  How far removed from is that from the Book, the Bible?”

Kevin:  Huh, well my message to the Church in America is come and die.”  Few people take me up on it but I believe with all my heart that I have divine obligation to stand up and say “Come and be a Martyr for Jesus; come and lay down your life for something more important than yourself.”

Sid: Kevin, we’re out of time right now we’ll pick up on tomorrow’s broadcast.