Sid: My guest in the studio will stop any backslider in their tracks when they hear what happened to her. Pat you’re from Jacksonville, Florida. You had a pregnancy and you had surgery and blood pouring all over you died, and you left your body. What happened?

Pat: Well it felt like a large explosion in my head and then suddenly it was like I was being sucked like a giant vacuum cleaner into this dark dark tunnel. And then I stepped out of that tunnel and there I was in the darkest place that I had ever seen. Very frightening, off to the distance I could see God and you know Sid when you die you know that there’s a God then whether you believed it or not before. But what pierces your heart is that you are separated from Him and then the next thought comes for eternity.

Sid: But you were raised in Catholicism you knew about Jesus.

Pat: Knew about Him but you know as a child we use to go in and do the stations of the cross and see a bloody Jesus hanging on the cross. I would look at all of those things but I’d say “But that was 2000 years ago, what does that have to do with me?” And I never could figure that it had anything to do with me.

Sid: So He wasn’t relevant to you.

Pat: It wasn’t relative because I wasn’t born again.

Sid: So you went to this place the Bible calls outer darkness, it sounds terrifying.

Pat: Oh it was just terrible, awful. I don’t know whether people stay there throughout eternity or at the judgment seat of Jesus they go and then they’re cast into hell. I wouldn’t even want to be in that dark place where I was for even a moment it was…

Sid: So you came back into your body. I imagine that put the fear of God I you and you probably went back to church.

Pat: Well what happened when I came back into my body I was very disturbed for weeks and I could hardly talk. Then I began to think about what had happened to me, and to be honest it has an effect on your life you know that there’s a God and so when I went back to the Catholic church I went back in fear to be honest with you. I would go to confession on Saturday and then communion of Sunday but then on Monday I would fall again into sin. I had no control over my flesh. So I went to the Priest and I said “I’m not going to be coming back” I said “Because I don’t think that God would appreciate someone living for the devil all week and then coming to church on the weekend.” And I said “I just can’t reconcile that and I can’t be good.” Well he didn’t tell me who Jesus was, and I didn’t find out until I was about 38 years old.

Sid: Well in the mean time you were very active in politics; you actually ran for the State Legislature but you lost and it was so crushing you went into a real depression. You got into something that was just starting to get very popular at the time called the occult.

Pat: Yes, and you know those books were appearing on the supermarkets and in the pharmacies and all over the place; Jean Dixon and Edgar Casey and Author Ford and then Ruth Montgomery. So Ruth Montgomery wrote the book on Jean Dixon “A Gift of Prophecy.” And they were appearing on all of the major talk shows of that day and it made it seem just so interesting and exciting. So I would read a book and then I would try to experiment with what they were doing. Of course the devil is always there to help you to experiment in his ways. So I started doing automatic handwriting and what that is is you just let your mind go blank and then you take a pen and you just write actually the devil will move your hand.

Sid: Well that sounds something like how a Ouija board operates also.

Pat: Right, the same thing. And so one night I was in my bedroom and I was doing this automatic writing and the demon… I had always talked to one demon in that. And the demon said “We have come tonight to possess you, your children will suddenly fall over and don’t be concerned because we will take care of them and like a trance. And we’re going to come into you and possess you.”

Sid: Now when they spoke to you was it an audible voice.

Pat: No, this was automatic handwriting.

Sid: Oh, they did it through the writing, you read this

Pat: Yeah, right.

Sid: Oh my, that had to be the scariest thing.

Pat: Fear just came from my head to my head to my feet and I know that this was God you know. And I said “Oh no, you can’t possess me I won’t let you.” And they said “You will either let us come in now or we’ll come in after you go to sleep.” So I cried out “To the unknown God and I said “God I don’t know You but if you’ll protect me from this I’ll give You my life.” And by the way I did ask them if there was a devil and they said “Yes.” And I figured if there is a devil…

Sid: I wouldn’t ask these critters anything myself but you didn’t know.

Pat: I figured that if there was a devil there had to be a God see. So I cried out to the unknown God. And God…a peace came into the room and I could smell the sweet smell in my room that I’d never smelled before and I knew that it was the Spirit of God. So God began to speak into my mind and He told me to go to this prayer meeting where I had spoken to during the campaign. So I went there and while I was there they had a lending library of Christian books. So I would just pick up all of those books, a hand load of books and she said I could take them home. And the first book I read was on salvation. And I got down by my bed and gave my heart to Jesus. Then the next experience was I tried to get the Holy Spirit but couldn’t. Well because I had those blocking devils in me. And see the pattern that Jesus used was this Sid, when Mary Magdalene came to Jesus He didn’t say “Oh, believe in Me and be saved and everything’s going to be alright.” He cast 7 devils out of her and then she followed Him for the rest of her life. But see there are Christians all over this nation that need deliverance because of the things that they were involved in before they ever got saved. Like homosexuality, I have cast many homosexual spirits out of people and lesbians, and the occult and drugs, and…

Sid: And you know speaking of the occult it was big back in the mid 70’s but how much larger is it today. Let me ask you a question I don’t want to jump too far but I have to ask you this question. There’s a whole phenomena called Harry Potter, there’s all kinds of things about wizards, demons. And there on every television and they’re communicating with the dead. Is it dangerous for anyone to watch these things?

Pat: Absolutely.

Sid: The movie the Exorcist was big but this type of thing is all over the place. Why is it dangerous?

Pat: It’s aimed at 12 year old kids. And you know I had a young girl come through our ministry with her mother. She had run away from home and was Go-Go dancing in a nude bar. Her mother found out where she was and she got her and brought her over to our old church. So the girl didn’t want us to touch her, she would not let us lay our hands on her because she was loaded with devils. But at one point I put my hand on her mother and the mother fell to the floor and a devil came up and began to speak out of her voice like a man. And this woman was a member at one of the big churches Pentecostal churches in Jacksonville. And so I cast that devil out of her in Jesus Name, then I started questioning her. I said “Have you ever been in the occult, have you been to the fortune teller, have you been to the physic?” “No, no, no.” Do you know what it was Sid? Harry Potter books, she had bought…

Sid: Tell you what, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast Mishpochah.

Sid: Now when you go to a doctor and whatever your problem is it seems they’ll say “It’s stress” or “It’s fear related.” And they’ll give you anti-anxiety drugs; they’ll give you all… it’s younger and younger and younger. My guest is Jonathan Bernis and we’re featuring his brand new coffee table book “Confessing the Hebrew Scriptures, The Lord is Peace.” And the word peace in shalom as we found out it means completeness in every promise of God. It’s like a magnet to draw the blessings of God to you. You will be able to almost instantly. And maybe and I don’t even need the word almost; there’s a CD that comes with it. You hear the promises of God about completeness in your life. And you hear it in Hebrew by a native speaking Israeli, then you read it in a transliteration fashion which allows you to instantly read and pronounce that Hebrew. And then you hear it in English; and then you can meditate on these promises. Jonathan, there’s a better way to combat anxiety and stress and worry and fear than medicines.

Jonathan: That’s right Sid; a doctor will prescribe anti-depressants or sedatives. We don’t need any of that because there is a prescription in the Word of God. Against anxiety, against tension; against stress, against depression and it’s confessing the word of God. We all know the scripture where Jesus says “Come unto me all you who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon me and learn of Me for I am gentle and humble and you will find rest for your souls.” But we don’t find rest unless we get that truth into our spirit man. And the way that we do that according to Roman’s 10:17. “Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Is to confess the scripture; to hear it day in and day out. And I will challenge anyone listening to confess that scripture in front of the mirror 20 times a day and watch what happens. Your anxiety begins to go to fade. The tension begins to disappear; the depression will lift; the stress will begin to come off of you it’s because the Word of God is alive Sid. But we have to activate it through hearing it and getting it into our spirits. And that’s why I’ve been doing these books because I believe in the power of confessing the word of God. Sid it works.

Sid: I have to tell you I interviewed recently Perry Stone and he told me the last prophetic word that his dad had before he went to heaven was that there are demons released on planet earth. Where people that are good believers will start getting thoughts of sexual sin and just things that they wouldn’t even want to have inside of them? And they wonder “Where is this coming from?” The prophesy was, only those that are speaking in supernatural languages will have a defense against this. And so if you do those two keys that Jonathan has been speaking about all week and that is speak in supernatural languages and confess God’s word. Meditate on God’s Word and I can’t explain this but there are frequencies in words and when you speak God’s Word in Hebrew you’re going into a heavenly frequencies. Musicians understand this; psalmists understand this; and God understands this. So when you put the 3 together and you confess God’s Word and meditate on God’s Word. This is a promise from God. “No weapon formed against you will prosper.” Not one, not one weapon formed against you will prosper. And as a matter of fact a lot of people see what’s going on Jonathan with the economy; with politics; with terrorism, with the natural disasters and they’re wondering what in the world is going on. But I look at it as the greatest time to be able to be a light in a dark world in the history of planet earth.

Jonathan: I agree with that Sid; you know what as you’re talking about the word that Perry’s father had it reminds me of the book of Jude. That’s the exact picture of the book of Jude. People are being overcome with sensuality; people are being overcome with wickedness; they’re caught up in the material plane. They’re working out things with their mind and they’re under this attack of the enemy. Then Jude exhorts us but you beloved you can build up your most holy faith by praying in the Holy Spirit, praying in other tongues. And when you do that you’re building faith up; you’re building an immunity against the works of the evil one in our lives and you’re released into a supernatural realm where you have ears to hear and eyes to see what the spirit of God is saying. And confessing the word of God works the same way. “Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”

Sid: Tell me what’s in your inner most being you feel where we are prophetically in end-times.

Jonathan: Well, I’m not going to set any dates because everyone….

Sid: You don’t want to be stoned I know why, but go ahead. (Laughing)

Jonathan: Israel has been restored as a nation; Jerusalem is back under the hands of the Jewish people. The blindness is coming off the eyes of the Jewish people in greater numbers than ever before. And Sid I have the privilege of seeing something that most people don’t see and that is I’m traveling to places like Zimbabwe; Ethiopia; Manipur and Mizoram, India. I am encountering ancient Jewish tribes that are likely connected to the lost tribes of Israel and they’re receiving the gospel. Many of them are now going back to Israel; the Benei nemasha the children of Menasha in Manipur, India. We’ve been working with for years and have been wide open for the gospel.

Sid: Don’t the rabbi’s believe that the lost tribes have to be restored before the Messiah comes?

Jonathan: Absolutely, the scriptures are filled with prophecies that in the last days God would re-gather the remnant of Israel. Isaiah 11 is one of the greatest He says that “He’ll re-gather the outcasts of Israel. And it’s directly connected to the return of Jesus to this earth. We’re living in a prophetic time Sid. The last of the last days I’m sure of that.

Sid: Well, I’ll tell you what all this week Jonathan the presence of the God has been so strong within me and upon me. And I believe that’s it’s because of this tool that the Holy Spirit directed you to create; it’s a beautiful coffee table book hard back obviously. And the art work is so magnificent in this and you have the Hebrew scriptures. It’s written in Hebrew and then it’s transliterated and so anyone can instantly read the Hebrew. They sound like a native born Israeli and just in case they don’t you have a CD where a native born Israeli is reading this with beautiful music. Then you have the promises in English. This one is called “The Lord is Peace.” Which brings everything into focus to medicate on; because the word peace means completeness. In other words, complete in your spirit, in your soul and in your body. And you have the promises; you mediate on God’s word day and night. And what did God tell Joshua?

Jonathan: He told Joshua to mediate, to confess the word of God, to keep it in his mouth and he would be successful in everything that he did. And that is true today for everyone listening.

SID: Okay. I am so intrigued over words of knowledge. Briefly, what is a word of knowledge?

RANDY: Well it’s supernatural knowledge you don’t get through education or learning, or any natural means. For my case, it works in helping with healing. God wants to heal. But I know people who sometimes get words of knowledge that lift them to go into the highest position or company in electrical engineering because there will be a problem they haven’t figured out, and they’ll pray it out, and God will tell them what the problem is. So it’s knowledge that you get that’s not by natural means.

SID: How did you, how were you mentored to move in this gift that you say, and correct me if I’m wrong, everyone that’s a believer in the Messiah can move in this gift.

RANDY: I believe everybody can. Some will move in it more than others, but I believe everybody can.

SID: Okay, but how did you start moving in this?

RANDY: A guy told me on the telephone in five minutes how to get words of knowledge and a few days later I started having them.

SID: Okay. Five minutes. Go for it, Randy.

RANDY: You feel pain is not your pain, so you feel it. You have an impression of some disease or something, or somebody’s name, so you think you can see how they were hurt. Maybe it’s an area of an accident or a part of the body, like a mental picture, a daydream so you can see it. You can see a word on somebody, which is like you actually see the word, so you can read it. You can say it like you’re praying for somebody or talking to somebody, and you hear yourself saying something you didn’t think you were going to. An odd experience that God gives you an interpretation to can be one of the ways and you can also dream them, have a dream about it in advance, and then the dream gives you the faith you know what God wants to do. Those are several ways to have words of knowledge.

SID: How does dreaming work with you? How did that start?

RANDY: I talked to somebody. I was interviewing people that had raised the dead in Mozambique. That’s one of my hobbies to interview people who had been raised or people who had been raising the dead. And I asked these three guys that all raised the dead if they had words of knowledge after the interview. [unintelligible] They said, yes. And I said, well how do you get [them], and I didn’t know you could dream them. And he said, no, we dream them. I said, well, how does that work, and then they told me. Within two weeks, I’m in Brazil and I have a dream. I see two hands, no body, no arms, just two hands with something stuck here, sticking out two inches past the palm. So I gave it. Wasn’t sure it was God or not because it was my first one. And the guy came running from the back row. I could see a big [unintelligible] hand there. He puts his hand in mine like that and before I could say, “Come Holy Spirit,” it’s already been healed. It had been paralyzed open. He had a massive scarring. He had something sticking all the way from here. It did stick out two inches out past his palm. So when he heard the Word, he knew it was for him. He knew he was going to be healed. He was healed by the Word. I had very little to do it with it. Except I said, Lord, that is so easy, can we have more of those?

SID: All right. I’m going to stand. Okay. Here’s what I need you to do. I need you to yield to the Spirit of God and speak with God tells you right now.

RANDY: Okay. I think there are some things that God wants to heal and in the last 30 minutes I started getting words of knowledge, I felt most of them. The one of them is that somebody has something wrong with the bone on the out right side of the ankle, the ankle bone on the right side, and God wants to heal that and somebody else, you had a brain injury. It was an accident, but I actually think it’s a car accident. It’s a result of a brain injury and some complication, and I believe the Lord is going to heal that. I think there’s somebody by the name of Mariah. I know that’s a very uncommon name. I think God wants to heal somebody with the name of Mariah and there’s someone who you’re about to lose your marriage because you had a spirit of jealousy, and God wants to deliver you from that spirit of jealousy. And somebody, you have pain in the right bottom part of your heart, God wants to heal that. And that’s enough for now. So Father, in the name of Jesus, we bless the people that those are for. We speak to the bone and the right ankle be healed, also below the inside of the right ankle and the left side, not the bone, but in the tissue there, there’s something wrong there, that be healed. We speak to the heart. We speak to the jealousy issue, that spirit of jealousy to leave. God, you heal whatever has caused that man to have that. And Lord, we just speak in the name of Jesus, whoever it is, whatever Mariah has got, and also to the brain damage. In Jesus’ name, God, may they know this is your will and since they know it’s your will, may they have faith. And I agree with it in Jesus’ name for their healing. Amen.

SID: Now some of you may be asking, what is the purpose of a miracle? After all, our sins are forgiven. We’re going to go to Heaven. What do we need miracles for? Well I’m going to give you a good reason why you need a miracle, because that’s the way the Messiah of Israel operated. That’s a good a reason I know. He demonstrated the Kingdom and then he earned the right to present how people can know the king. Now because we don’t have, and Randy was almost talked out of it, because we don’t have people in every congregation that are believers everywhere operating in the supernatural, we have Plan B. But Plan B only works for a few people. I have spoken for as many as 450 Jewish people that don’t know the Messiah, operating just the way Randy did, in words of knowledge, 30, 40, stand up and say, I’ve just been healed, and for two hours I have earned the right to tell them why they were healed. That’s why you need miracles. That’s why you need miracles because the king is coming back soon for a kingdom. And God wants you in the kingdom. You’ve heard enough to make Jesus your Messiah and Lord, to repent of your sins, to tell him that you’re sorry and believe the blood of Jesus not only washes them away, but gives you the power to be victorious. And then you invite the life of Messiah to come inside of you. Someone’s neck was just healed. Just move your head, you’ll see. The pain is gone. In fact, pain of any kind is going right now. And I want you to know something. As Randy said, God values you, God loves you. He sent his son to die a horrific death because he loves you so much. You are loved by God. Remember that.

SID: Hello. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I have been so looking forward to this show, because my guest is from England. She’s a businesswoman. She opens up shops, but they’re very unusual shops. They have signs in the window: “We pray for miracles. We interpret dreams.” Who’s ever heard of such a shop like this? And large numbers of non-believers of the Messiah go into her shop. And God must be so pleased. For the first time we got down the four walls and we’re doing what we’re created to do. Better than 90 percent of these non-believers get miracles and healings when they walk into the shop and then they are open to a presentation that there’s only one way to know God, and that’s through the Jewish rabbi, Jesus. So Alice, I love what God is doing in your life. I love the fact that you’re in the marketplace, you’re starting businesses. And I’ve seen the picture of the sign in one of your businesses, and the sign says, it’s like in chalkboard, and it says: “Free! Healings, miracles, dream interpretation.” Do many non-believers take advantage of this?

ALISS: I’m surprised by the number of people that come in that just walking down the street, they’re doing their shopping, they’re coming as tourists, they’re visiting Chester, and they see the sign. They come in asking about free miracles.

SID: Well you know, it didn’t just happen. What I find is many that operated in the gift of miracles, there was a price to pay. Alice, you tell me that you cried out for 12 years. What do you mean by that?

ALISS: Well I read the scriptures. I read the miracles that Jesus did. I read that he told us that we could do the same and even greater things. And I read about past revivalists that were doing this stuff, and I thought, I want to do that. I just believe the Bible and I want to do it. But I would pray for people and I didn’t see miracles happening. And people would say, just give up, you’ve been trying too long.

SID: Not just people. There’s a little voice in your head that says, not for me. I identify that voice right now. It’s the devil. Go ahead.

ALISS: Yeah. But I just said, no, I believe what the Word of God says. So I’m going to continue.

SID: But 12 years is a long time.

ALISS: Twelve long years. I would be up in the night. I was praying. I was crying, I was fasting. I mean, people, you know, I prayed. People would get worse. Some people died. I mean, it was a nightmare.

SID: Okay. You open your shop. You have that nice sign in the window. Tell me one of the first miracles that happened.

ALISS: Well, to start with, we opened a café and it was in a housing estate with lots of crime and drugs. And this teenager comes in and the police have warned us about him. Out of the whole neighborhood of 18,000 people, we’re warned about this one young guy. And he comes in. He gives a false name.

SID: Can you picture that? The one person they’re warned about, she’s warned by the police about, wanders into their shop. I’m sorry. Go ahead.

ALISS: Yeah. You know, it was just as soon as we opened our café. He comes in and we just happen to be talking about words of knowledge. So we say, “Would you like a word of knowledge?” So we tell him something that he was doing the day before where he got into trouble. And he’s like, “How do you know that?” And I said to him, “Well…”

SID: If I was the police department, I’d hire her.

ALISS: So I said to him, I said, “Because God was there and God just told me what you did.” And he was like, “God was there!” I mean, he was so scared. The color drained from his face. But he had a broken ankle because he had been climbing onto a roof of a house.

SID: Why was he climbing on the roof?

ALISS: Well you know, he was trying to break in the house.

SID: Okay.

ALISS: And he fell off the roof, broke his ankle. And a lot of these people, they won’t to to hospital because the police would find out. So he said, we said to him, “Can we pray for your ankle and Jesus will heal it.” He says, “Yeah, whatever.” So we pray for his ankle. Instantly, the bones reconstructed and went back together and he was healed, and that was the first of the many miracles that we’ve had.

SID: Tell me, because this is outrageous what you’re about really, totally outrageous. I want Alice to tell me about a man by the name of Terry [name].

ALISS: That’s one of my favorite stories. This guy comes into our café and we’re talking to him about miracles. And he says, “Oh, I need a miracle.” So he explained. He said, “Five years ago,” he said, “I was climbing through a broken window.” And I would like to say, “What were you doing climbing through a broken window?”

SID: You get a lot of people like that. Have you noticed?

ALISS: We do. But we love them. God loves them so much. And he was climbing through the window and the bits of glass on the frame of the windowpane, you know, the frame, went into his fingers. And he didn’t go to hospital. So all these years later, the glass was still there. I could see marks. It was hard. His friend said, “I’ve tried with a knife to get the glass out,” it sounds disgusting, “and it wouldn’t come out.” So I said to him, I said, “Jesus will get the glass out.” So I grabbed his hands.

SID: Now when you said that, did you really believe that?

ALISS: Yeah.

SID: Okay.

ALISS: Why not? The thing is, you see, Jesus, when he died on the cross 2000 years ago, he’s done it all, so we just got to take it. So I just grabbed his hands and I said, “In the name of Jesus, I command all the glass to come out of his body.” Well he goes home. He comes back into the café the next day. He says, “You’ll never guess what happened in the night. I’ve been up all night,” he said. “Bits of glass have been coming out of my fingers on their own.” He didn’t even go to bed. He just pulled them out. It didn’t hurt. The glass was coming out. But he said, “The funny thing is,” he said, “for 30 years I’ve had a problem with my foot.” And he’d had this pain in his foot. Couldn’t walk properly. There was a hole like that in the sole of every pair of shoes he had for 30 years. And he said, “As the glass is coming out of my fingers in the night,” he thinks, “what is going on with my foot?” He looks down. He sees a tiny piece of glass.

SID: Is that what was making the hole in his shoes?

ALISS: Yeah. Nobody knew. You see, he didn’t know. I didn’t know. But the glass comes out of his foot. What I didn’t know is that there was glass there. But I’d said, “In the name of Jesus, every bit of glass come out of his body.” I didn’t say his fingers. And “At the name of Jesus, every knee is going to bow,” including glass in somebody’s foot. It had to come out.

SID: Do you know what that reminds me of? Do you remember when Jesus said, “Lazarus, come forth,” and Lazarus rose from the dead? If Jesus had said, “Dead, come forth,” oy vey. We’ll be right back.

Sid: Now I have a guest and first we found out about her from her book and it’s quite a grabber for a title. The title is “You Can be an Overnight Soul Winner.” Why is this so important? Because the truth of the matter is that most people who call themselves never lead anyone to the Lord let alone Jewish people to the Lord. And after reading this book and reading the information that’s in this book there is an anointing on this and I believe that anyone that reads this book and yields to the Spirit of God can be wise. Why do I say “Wise?” Because the Bible says “He who wins souls is wise.” Why are you wise if you win souls. Because the only thing you take to heaven with you are those that you’ve lead to the Lord. There is a soul winners crown waiting for you; I believe that this will be a destiny week; a total change in your life. And you may be the type of person that says “Well, I’m not the type that leads people to the Lord. Yes, you are you’re about to ready to find this out. My guest Debra Alderman from Stafford, Texas is provoking me to jealousy and I’ve just met her by way of the telephone but on July of 1992 Jesus walked into her living room. Now the Bible, Debra the Bible says that the gentle is to provoke the Jew to jealousy but this is ridiculous; you’re getting me jealous already. Tell me what happened on July of ’92?

Debra: Well, Sid the most supernatural thing happened in July of 1992. I had already been serving God for a number of years and I was in full-time ministry; traveling and preaching the gospel across America and to Africa and England and other countries around the world. And I was just sitting in my one bedroom pink apartment in July of 1992 and at that time I loved pink and Sid I moved on to other colors but at that time the carpet in my apartment was pink; my walls were pink and even the fuzzy thing on the toilet was pink. And that night I was just sitting on my couch and it just seemed like an ordinary night and I had my Bible in my hand and I was preparing Sid to go speak at a ladies meeting the next day. And all of a sudden Jesus walked into the living room of my one bedroom pink apartment. And I’d never saw Jesus with my natural eyes and I know of people that that has happened to but I knew that Jesus walked into the room because His presence filled the room.

Sid: Well, when you say “His presence filled the room.” I have been at meetings where there’s different degrees of anointing. But was this way beyond a very anointed meeting?

Debra: This was way beyond that; this was Sid a personal visitation that I had from Jesus on that night.

Sid: Okay, tell me what He did or said.

Debra: Well, when He walked into the living room into my one bedroom pink apartment I stood up off of my couch on to the floor because I was getting ready to pray or to say something. And you know Sid a lot of times you know when Jesus comes to visit us or His presence comes into the room a lot of time as human beings we don’t know how to respond. And that was the case with my self that night; I didn’t know how to respond.

Sid: I’ve never had that problem; He’s never come in to my room I’m jealous.

Debra: (Laughing)

Sid: But go ahead.

Debra: I’ll tell you I didn’t know how to respond and you know I opened my mouth and I got ready to pray and I heard Jesus or I heard the Holy Spirit go “Sh, be quiet don’t say anything Debra I want to talk to you.” And that night as I stood Sid on the floor in my living room Jesus said “Debra I’ve called you to be a soul winner and from this forward the anointing that I’ve placed upon your life to win the lost is about to intensify.” And I tell you what Sid I really did not realize to the extent of what Jesus was really saying to me that night. I thanked Him; you know in a few minutes it’s like the visitation was over and Jesus never said another word.” And I said well thank You Lord because Sid I’d already been winning souls. I mean my sister that lead me to the Lord when I was a 20 year old college student she was a number 1 soul soul winner. And so I would be with her in different places and my older sister Tina she was always witnessing to this person and that person winning souls and so I was winning souls Sid. But I tell you I didn’t really realize what God had done in my life until about 24 hours Jesus had visited me in my one bedroom pink apartment. I was returning home that evening from the grocery store and I saw a young man walking along side of the road who I recognized from my local church. and his name was Steven so I knew that something was wrong he needed transportation and I just got out and chatted with him a minute and he jumped in my car and I offered to drop him off at his department complex I realized I was on an extremely bad side of town. There were a lot of drugs, alcohol, sin and this particular apartment complex. And Sid I could hardly wait to get Steven out of my car; I was thinking God if he doesn’t get out fast enough I’m going to push him out. Because I could hardly wait to get out of that apartment complex and get back to the good side of town where I lived. But you know what Sid God had a completely different plan for that night. When I dropped Steven off the only place there was for me to turn my car around was in that dark alley way of this apartment complex. And that particular night there happened to be about 16 teenagers playing volleyball and basketball in the ally way and I had to kind of interrupt their game to get my car turned around. And Sid when I was almost out of that apartment complex I heard Jesus say…now keep in mind it’s 24 hours after He had visited me in my apartment complex Debra turn your car around and go back into that dark alley way and preach Jesus Christ to those teenagers.

Sid: Now, was there a chance that you could have talked yourself out of it and said “That’s just my thoughts, that’s not Jesus.”

Debra: Oh, I could have easily talked myself out of it because of this very first thing that I did was I just started arguing back and forth with God. I was like “God you have got the wrong person; I mean yes I’m preaching across America and in different parts of the world and I’m leading people to You but I have never in my life have I ever stood in a dark alleyway of an apartment complex and about 10:30 and 11:00 PM at night by myself and preached Jesus Christ to a bunch of street teenagers.” And the more I began to tell God He had the wrong person the more God began to speak to me Sid saying “Are you going to be obedient to Me; are you going to do what I’m asking you to do; I’m asking you to turn your car around and step out by faith and do something that you never done before.” And so out of obedience to the Lord I was afraid; I had never done anything like this before.

Sid: You know what that reminds me of; it reminds me of Peter being told to walk on the water.

Debra: Yes.  

Sid: Just imagine the courage it took for him to take that first step?

Debra: Absolutely. And you know so many people you know preach about how you know Peter took his eyes off of Jesus and sunk. But I like to preach about the part that he was the only one of the disciples that dared to walk on the water.

Sid: So you started literally walking on water from the viewpoint of I mean how many teenagers were there playing basketball?

Debra: There were about 16 teenagers; there was males and females.

Sid: And this was in a dark area in Houston, Texas about what time at night?

Debra: It was in between 10:30 and 11:00 PM.

Sid: My goodness that is a tough call; you decided to be obedient.

Debra: I decided to be obedient Sid and so I turned my car around I had no idea what I was going to say or what I was going to do.   And Sid this is just another reason why I know that if God can used me to be a soul winner God can use anybody to be a soul winner. And that night when I drove my car back into the dark alley way they’re seeing me for the second time now I’ve already interrupted their game to turn my car around; now they’re seeing me coming back. And so I got out of my car and I didn’t know what to do but you know when you don’t know what to do Sid you just know that the Holy Spirit He’s in charge; He’s in control and I walked up to this big old tall guy and he was dribbling a basketball I’ll never forget him as long as I live. And he was so tall he was looking down at me and I’m a very short person I’m only 5’2” tall and he’s looking down at me and I’m looking up at him and I don’t know what to say so I just kind of cleared my voice. And I said “Can I have your attention I have something to tell you.” And I’ll never forget it Sid he stopped dribbling his basketball and he looked down at me and he said “Well, what have you got?” And so at that moment of time I just looked at all of those teenagers and I said “Everybody come over here I’ve got something good to tell you tonight.” And so all of the teenagers to my shocking surprise stopped what they were doing walked over to where I was and at that point I just began to share with them I said “Jesus loves you; I don’t normally come down alley’s I the middle of the night however God has sent me.” And you know Sid if you ever tell anyone that God has sent you they’ll listen to you because they think that you’re crazy anyhow. And so I just said “You know Jesus loves you; He has a great plan for your life and tonight you can invite Jesus Christ to come live in your heart and you can be 100% sure when you leave this earth that you will go to heaven to be with Jesus forever. And I said it just seemed like one of the teenagers that night looked at me and said “Yeah, that would be cool.” And I just couldn’t help to think to myself that heaven is a lot cooler than hell. And so I said “Join hands with me and we’re going to get ready to pray because every teenager in that dark alley way that night said “I want to receive Jesus Christ as my Savior.” And Sid what I did not know was that when I was sharing Christ with all of these young people one of the teenagers mothers was standing several feet behind me listening to every word that I said. And before we got ready to pray I didn’t know that she was back there; I didn’t know that she had been listening to me but she just yelled out with a loud voice “Wait, don’t pray without me; I want to make sure that I’m going to heaven also.”

Sid: You know Debra we’re out of time right now but Mishpochah I’m telling you that we’re coming into times where the Holy Spirit’s going to go ahead of you just as He did with Debra. How would you have liked to have had the opportunity of leading all of those people to the Lord. Well, Debra says that you can be an overnight soul winner because it happened to her.

Sid: I have to tell you I’ve been looking forward to this interview for a long time. I have a friend that many of you have heard of his name is Rick Joyner. And Rick and I were in his airplane one day and I said “Rick who do you suggest that I interview on my show.” And without blinking an eye he told me about Aliss Cresswell. And she’s from United Kingdom, Chester and he said “I’ll tell you what if you get her to come to the US I will have her speak at my place.” And I said “You got a deal Rick.” And then the more I found out about her Aliss, approximately when you pray for nonbeliever’s and you pray for non-believers all the time what percent get healed would you say?”

Aliss: “Oh, gosh maybe something like 90% I would say.?”

Sid: That’s outrageous, you realize that don’t you.

Aliss: I know it’s amazing.

Sid: You know what I believe that anything Aliss does you can do and maybe you can get to that 100%. And Aliss when you were 11 you saw your first miracle, tell me about that.

Aliss: I did, well I was in my church in Chester and we had an evangelist came to speak to our church. And there was a boy and he was the son of the Pastor and I knew him fairly well, he was younger than I was but he had something wrong with his leg. And his leg was twisted and it was deformed; he leg was too short and he had what we call calapost like a metal brace on his leg. And he couldn’t walk properly; and the evangelist called him to the front and he called all of us children and young people to come up to the front and he said “You’re going to witness a miracle.” And so it was so good because he asked us all to pray; so he got all of us young people and children praying for this young boy. And right in front of my eyes I witnessed my first miracle. The boy took the brace off of his leg and I just saw his leg it twisted back into position where it should be and it grew out quite a few inches and it was right in front of me. And from that day I knew that Jesus loved to do miracles.

Sid: And at 15 you got your first word of knowledge; I have to tell you I didn’t become a believer coming from a traditional Jewish background until I was 30. So you had a head start on me. Tell me about that first word of knowledge and what you do with it? I know with my first word of knowledge I didn’t even know what to do with it.

Aliss: Well, what happened was it was nearly a tease; I’d been in the city of Chester I was a teenager. I was going back home on the bus and I was just sitting looking out the window next to an older lady. And I really felt like God was saying to me “Talk to the woman sitting next to you.” And in my head I was thinking “Oooh I can’t do that, I was actually quite a teenager; so I said in my head “Okay God I will speak to her if You give me something to say to her.” And I didn’t think that God was going to answer to me but He did. And straight away I had the impression that she had a daughter who had a problem with her stomach and she was very ill. So I said to her I said “Excuse me.” Now she was so deaf she couldn’t hear me very well so I had to shout and everybody was watching me and I was so nervous. But I said, I said again “I believe that…I’m a Christian and I believe that God has just told me that you have a daughter that has a problem with her stomach.” And she said “Oh yes, that is true.”

Sid: Now wait a second, when you said that you’re just 15 years old; you must have been trembling.

Aliss: I was so scared and I was a very shy teenager; I didn’t like anybody looking at me or anything. But she said to me “Yes, she’s very sick.” And I said…I didn’t know what to do then. I just felt like well if God’s given me this word for the daughter I’m going to have to pray. So I just grabbed her hand and everybody was looking at me but I didn’t care.

Sid: (Laughing)

Aliss: I prayed out and I said “God please heal her daughter.” And then I looked up and I saw that it was my bus stop so I had to jump off I said “I’ve got to go bye.” And off I went; so I never knew whether she was healed or not but at least I stepped out in obedience.

Sid: Well, you had a breakthrough and there was a key to your breakthrough and I want to make this so clear to those that are listening to us right now. You told me that you spent 12 years crying out to God for the gift of miracles; for more of God. Tell me exactly what you did during those 12 years.

Aliss: Well, what happened was I was reading the gospels and I read that Jesus says to go and tell people about Him in Mark Chapter 16. And that when we place our hands on the sick that they would get well. I was reading scriptures. I was reading about past revivalists you know about Smith Wiggles-worth and Maria Woodsworth Etter and people like this. And I was just getting so hungry reading the scriptures; reading about these past revivalists. And I would pray and I say “God, please use me; please send me and you know I want to go and I want to heal the sick; I want to raise the dead; I want to cast out demons just like You told us to do.

Sid: Now again I’m kind of I have this type of mind I really know that you can’t put God in a box. But I just want to know did you pray that once, did you pray that once a day, did you pray that 10 times a day; what were you doing?

Aliss: Well, I didn’t count but it was very often. And sometimes I would remember I would be up in the night; I would just be crying. I would go into a separate room and I’d be on my knees and I would be praying and I’d be crying out. I would be fasting, it was just like an ongoing thing over those 12 years. I saw some almost miracles but they didn’t quite happen. But what I found was that I you know a lot of people would you know give up. Whether it’s contending for your own healing or whether you want to see other people get well when you pray for them; whether you’re contending for your own business or science or what every it is people often give up to easily. But what I found was because I kept going and I was contending for 12 and it was 12 very long years I did not give up. I would not let…

Sid: Why didn’t you give up, that’s what I want to understand.

Aliss: Because I want to do what God says, because I have a very simple faith; I don’t complicate things. I read some thing that God can do it that He can use me; that He wants to use me; I read that other people could do it. And I thought “Why no me, why not now; I’m going to do it and I just did not give up.” And what I found was you know eventually the breakthrough happened and when you do have a breakthrough and you’ve been contending all of those years you know for whatever how long it is. But not only do you step into that breakthrough but the door is wide open for other people to step into that breakthrough too.

Sid: Well, there’s 2 things going on; number one what I’ve noticed is if let’s suppose you’ve had a healing for a tumor on the brain you have faith to pray for anyone that has a tumor on the brain to be healed. The same principal you’ve had your breakthrough and when you pray for people they get their breakthrough. But there’s another thing going on; heaven is coming closer to earth than ever before in history. We are as the Traditional Jewish Rabbis’ say “We are in the footsteps of Messiah; He’s ready to return.” So everything is happening quickly I believe.

Aliss: Yes. Yeah, that’s true and it’s speaking up.

Sid: Okay, now you don’t know this but Aliss and her husband have started Cafe’s and Gift Stores. And I love it in the display window what does the sign say in your stores.

Aliss: It says “Free today, healings and miracles.

Sid: And you would think that no one would pay attention to that sign but that’s not true is it?

Aliss: It’s incredible the amount of people that come into the store just by walking past and they see the sign and they come in and they say “Tell, me about the miracles.” They say “How much is it for a free miracle; how long will it take? (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing) Okay, in 2009 you opened a Cafe and you know with this sign in the window and the miracles started. Now tell me was it gradual or was it just an explosion that happened?

Aliss: Well, it happened with one teenager; and it happened to be the teenager that the police had warned us about. Because our Cafe was opened it was in a deprived area with lots of crime and drugs. And so this guy comes in and so we got a word of knowledge for him and then he’s freaked out by the word of knowledge. And then I noticed that he was limping and I asked him what he had done? And he was climbing a roof of a house and fell off. Because often these people that we have in our cafe are trying to break into houses or they’re involved in crime. And he’d broken his ankle but he didn’t go to the hospital because they would find out what he’d been up to. So we just prayed for his ankle and told the bones to reconstruct and come back into place. And instantly the bones did as they were told by the Name of Jesus he was healed. He walked off and he said “Thank you very much I’m fine now.” And he walked out without a limp; completely healed by Jesus.

Sid: And you knew that…did you sense this was the beginning of something big?

Aliss: Well, that was after 12 years, if you could imagine I had been praying after 12 years without seeing miracles and then suddenly that happened. And then the next week during that week you know we open the cafe and more bones were healed; we had just…it really took off instantly and it hasn’t stopped and that was 5 years ago.

Sid: You know when I study the scriptures the New Testament in particular and the life of Jesus what I see is that Jesus said follow me and do what I do. Well, that’s what you’re doing Aliss. And you have 2 books, one book is called “A Diary of Miracles Part One.” The other is Part Two. And you have 2 CD’s entitled “Moving in the Power of Healing and Miracles.” And I believe that as people read your life and I mean your life it reads like the book of Acts. I mean some of these things are so amazing; and of course we’re told if everything in the book that Jesus did was in the Bible there wouldn’t be enough books to contain it. I believe that as people walk along with you through your books and your CD’s and your special prayers of impartation they’ll do the same things that you do.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to have such a passion for God; I have my good friend Pastor Steve Gray on the telephone from World Revival Church in Kansas City. He has had 8 years of a flow of God’s River and he says the flow is getting stronger. Whereas many churches that have put their foot in the River are now going back to dead Christianity. Well, Messiah is alive and Christianity is alive and there must be something more. And many of you are listening to me because you can sense the presence of the living God on this broadcast. And you know that I interview people that are flowing in the power of God, but I have an ulterior motive; my ulterior motive you don’t have to be real intellectual to figure it out. I am an evangelist; I want to see souls saved in and a New Covenant Evangelist major job is not going out themselves and preaching the gospel but equipping the saints to claim the gospel. And that’s why I believe God intrusted to me an I do mean intrusted to me; a few years ago I had a dream in which God Himself came to me and instructed me to write a book and told me that large numbers of Jewish people would come to know Him through this book. Well, I was obedient; today this book is in 7 languages getting ready to go into it’s 8^th language. We have over a half a million of these books in print; most of them in the Russian language because the most open Jewish people group on the face of this earth are Russian Jews. And I mean if you can just at academy rewards night and there will be academy rewards night in heaven; academy rewards night in heaven if that’s all we did at this strategic time in history is to get these 100’s of 1000’s of evangelistic books that God instructed me to right. It’s 10 Jewish testimonies it’s called “They Thought for Themselves” and if all we did was get that…because you see in the former Soviet Union for instance we have this book; we’ve just shipped 3500 to a place I don’t even know where it is in the former Soviet Union and it’s called Purim. We sent a 1000 books to Magadem; that’s in Siberia; that I know because I was there. Steve do you remember seeing on the 700 Club a few years ago when I was in Siberia and some Neo-Nazi’s walked into my meeting?

Steve: Yeah, I remember seeing that program; yes.

Sid: I mean that’s an experience and you know here in America we think that’s an impossibility but I was in a meeting and some Neo-Nazi’s came in with guns; and with signs kill the Jew. And I mean that’s…you’re supposed to see that in the movies it’s not supposed to happen in real life. Listen to this; there’s a region that was called “The Jewish Kingdom” at one time in the former Soviet Union and we’re shipping a large number of books there. There are Jewish people in Siberia and in this particular area of the former Soviet Union that would never, ever hear the gospel if we couldn’t send these books. But here’s what I believe; I believe and I know that Steve believes this. I believe that if you’re listening to me it’s because God has directed you to listen to me. And I believe that if you get a copy of this book “They Thought for Themselves” 10 Jewish people from different walks of life. I mean 1 a concert pianist; another a mega millionaire; another a PhD; a Holocaust Survivor; another a former New Age Guru. Jewish people from all walks of life that have thought for themselves and come to know the Messiah. I want you to read this book for yourself and then I tell you God will tell you who to give this book to. ….because this is God’s time to reach God’s People with the gospel. And we have so many new programs that we’re doing and we’re coordinating more and we’ll talk about it perhaps on tomorrow’s broadcast. But my friend Steve Gray has been in one of the longest, continuous revival in US history it’s going on 8 years now. And Steve I remember when you first started; you’ve always as long as I’ve known you you’ve had a Jewish heart. But in Smithton, Missouri there aren’t any Jews there. Tell me how you got a Jewish heart in that tiny little city.

Steve: I had just a miraculous time with God in May the following year it started in March in 1996 and in May off 1997. And suddenly something happened to me and I began to open in the Book of Romans and begin to read in the Book of Roman’s there in Chapter 9, 10, 11, 12 that section. There was such powerful statements of Israel and they just struck me and they became alive to me. So I walked into that service that night and I preached it the way I’d seen it and my church; the church they saw it with me there was so much God I guess we were just getting our eyes opened and we got a new revelation of the importance of Israel. And I guess the big thing that happened is you know that Israel is a special case that has to go through the tribulation to be saved. I don’t know Sid if you’ve ever been taught that but a lot of us who went through Bible School and all of the traditional stuff. You know the church being the Gentiles; the non-Jews they’re all going…they’re the bride and the Jews were the people that weren’t the bride but they could still be saved but they had to be saved in the tribulation or various teachings on that. And I just immediately saw that’s ridiculous. And I said “These are the most neglected people on the face of the earth when it comes to evangelism and God wants to do something in them right now.” And the night I preached that a man was there who has a heart for Israel and he had fortunately had the money and he bought Kathy and I two tickets to Israel and paid our way and said “Go scout out the land and see what you think.” And so my first trip to Israel was within weeks of that sermon and I’ve been different ever since. And I believe that what God did in my heart and in my church at that time was as you and I know is to provoke the Jews to believe and to provoke them to jealousy. And I went over there the next trip and I flew El El and you know how they do security; you know the security there is so wo…it’s really good. If you’re in a hurry I guess you don’t think it’s good but it’s great security and a young lady was one of their security; you know they take you to several people and they split Kathy and I up so they see if we’d get our stores straight because we were going over there to be with Jews.

Sid: I hope you didn’t tell them that did you?

Steve: Well, they want to know what tour group we were going to be with. You know there was no tour group, no tour guide. I said “I’m going to go over there and see some of these people.” Well, immediately it kind of made them suspicious of us you know “Who are these people?” So finally went through everything; finally got us back together again, they looked through our luggage and this girl whose part of security comes up and says “Well I need to know why you’re going to Israel, what are you going for?” So the Lord just began to work and suddenly Kathy did most of the talking because it was a young lady and Kathy is very enthusiastic and I added my points too. And we began to tell how the glory of God had come down to this little town of Missouri; touched us with His power and the things that we began to see and the things that we began to hear. And as we were talking to her about the glory coming down; now this is a non-believing Jewish girl probably mid-twenties or probably 26 or 27 years old listening to us and as we began to talk about the glory coming down tears filled in her eyes and tears started coming down her cheeks. Now this is in Newark, New Jersey in the airport standing there getting interrogated so to speak. Tears running down her face; I continue to tell the story and it touch my husband and he began to jump up and down and be so free. And tears running down her face and she looked at me and she said “Shouldn’t that be happening in Israel?” And and I said “Yes!” And that’s why I’m going.” And she said “Then, come on through” and she let us on through. Amazing story of showing what God really wants to do in the hearts of Jewish people.

Sid: And you know what I find interesting I’m one of these people I feel the presence of God; and while you were sharing about what she said to you that Israel needs this, the anointing or the manifest presence of God just started pouring through this microphone.

Steve: Yep

Sid: I believe it’s pouring through radio’s right now and cassette players. As people are listening to us. Steve you have such a heart for the Jew in Israel; but I believe that you can pray for people to have a heart like Esther, a heart like Ruth would you do that right now.

Steve: Yeah, because I know it happened to me. “Jesus; Yeshua we ask you now to touch the hearts of the listeners; believer’s; non-believers help them get the vision; help them have their eyes open so they understand what the Spirit is saying right now that God want to move in Israel this strategic need as all the religions of the world practically look to Israel as the central; as the home as the mecca; as the Holy City; whatever place they call it with their different religions. When it happens in Israel the whole world sees. And we know God you want to show Yourself to the nations; how better Lord, how better Yeshua than to spring forth out of Israel in an undeniable move of God where Your presence is there in Biblical proportions. So open ours eyes today Yeshua to understand the necessity and the need and the possibility that You could spring forth coming down in glory and then going out as an outpouring to the nations from Israel; through the Jews and the non-Jews alike; just like it was in the early church where they came together and the power of God was visible and it shook cities and it changed lives. Do it again and plan it in our hearts; help us to see it in the Spirit realm it happening and believe it and act upon our faith in the Name of Yeshua we pray! Amen.

Sid: I’ll tell you something Steve you’re making me home sick and of course as a Jew my home is; I’m proud of being an American but my home is Israel.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to literally become a fool for the Messiah. Now what do I mean by that? I mean that there will be people that will say “Oh, you’re a fool you tell people about Jesus; you pray for the sick if you see anyone sick; you’re not like most people you’re a fool.” Well, let me tell you something you got a choice of being God’s fool or the devil’s fool. I choose God; who do you choose? I have on the telephone someone who’s probably more fanatic than I am for the Messiah; her name is Francis Hunter. I’m speaking to her at her office in Houston, Texas. And most believer’s know Charles and Francis Hunter as the ones that are willing to do anything God says. Francis you just celebrated your 88^th Birthday and your still going strong.

Francis: Yes.

Sid: I want to take you back many, many years right now for the audience that doesn’t know you. You were…would you call yourself just a church goer before you knew the Messiah or you weren’t even that?

Francis: I was a wild sinner.

Sid: That’s what I said “You can be a fanatic as a sinner or you can be fanatic for God there is no in between. So you were all the way as a fanatic sinner. What made the difference briefly?

Francis: Well, I’ll tell you one day well I had to have eye surgery. I had to have the lens of one eye removed because of an automobile accident. And when I was in the hospital as a wild sinner and I had gotten drunk before I got there because I didn’t know any other way to fill that God shape vacuum. And God wrote my name in blood in the pages of my Bible. I saw the finger of God be descend from heaven and it was dipped in the blood of Jesus. In my Bible He wrote “Francis Gardner”. That was my name then; now on the other page He wrote “I love you.” And if you’ve ever seen your name written in the blood of Jesus where God said “I love you.” You can never be the same again and that was the thing that started me on my search for God. And when I accepted Jesus I often say “He opened my mouth and I haven’t shut it from that day to this.” And I don’t intend to. (Laughing)

Sid: Now if Francis was fanatic before she was baptized in the Holy Spirit imagine what happened when she got married to Charles and both of them together were baptized in the Holy Spirit. What difference did it make in your life Francis?

Francis: Well, it just changed your life forever because God rewrote the Bible once I got the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. I saw things in there that I never saw before and I understood things in there that I never understood before and it gave us a power that we never had before the power to heal the sick. Which I think is one of the greatest blessings that God gives to every believer who accepts the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You have the power to lay hands upon the sick; the same power that Jesus had and see them recover.

Sid: Out of curiosity before you were baptized in the Holy Spirit did you pray for the sick?

Francis: Yes, but they didn’t get healed.  

Sid: And well, but I have to say this to you there are many Charismatic Christians that are baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues at least once when they got baptized in the Holy Spirit which is wrong by the way. You want to do what Paul says “I pray in tongues more than any man.

Francis: Yeah.

Sid: However, let’s be candid Francis most Charismatic, most Pentecostal churches you don’t see that many miracles there; so what’s the problem?

Francis: It’s because they don’t use the power of God that they had. They don’t know how and that’s why we wrote the book “How to Heal the Sick.” So that everybody would know that they can heal the sick. As a matter of fact we’re having healing schools all over the United States now with our DVD and video tapes. And just Monday night and Healing Class at Lakewood Church we had over 100 healings by the people that we had already taught 2 lessons to so far.

Sid: Now are you seeing more people healed today than say a year ago or 20 years ago?

Francis: Definitely, definitely, definitely.

Sid: So we’re getting closer to that prophecy that I read about on yesterday’s broadcast by Tommy Hicks.

Francis: Yes.  

Sid: Now let’s go to your book a little bit. Chapter 3 very intriguing chapter. You quote Mark Chapter 16 verse 17 and 18 in which Messiah said “Those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and they shall pray for a half hour, they shall work up tremendous emotions; they shall roll on the floor, they shall kick and they shall holler and they shall scream and they shall shake. No, that’s not what it says; what does it really say?

Francis: It very simply says “Those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. They shall recover. But you see one of the things that I feel is so important you have to believer first of all that God want’s you well. Number 2 you’ve got to believe when you stretch forth your hand to lay it on the sick that’s the hand of Jesus being extended on the people today. Because if Jesus lives inside of You and he better live inside of you then those are the only hands that Jesus has on the earth today are yours and mine.

Sid: You know what I think Francis; we drum up all of this religious tradition whether it’s non-charismatic or whether it’s the charismatic and we think that we need all of these things. But it’s really if there is one trait that that I think of when I think of Charles and Francis Hunter; you know what I think of? Childlike.

Francis: Yes.

Sid: Not complex.

Francis:   No.

Sid: Not something that only the very elect; the very top echelon can walk into; you bring it down to our level.

Francis: Amen.

Sid: And you know something when the Messiah spoke He spoke to people that were fisherman; people that they didn’t have great…I mean Paul the Apostle he had some pretty good training but he was the exception.

Francis: Amen, well and you see neither Charles or I ever went to Bible School or Bible College or anything like that. We just read the Bible over and over again discovering how Jesus did it. And then we thought we’ll try the same things that Jesus did and we discovered that it works. And so then we discovered if it works for us it works for other people as well.

Sid: Well, how does someone handle this; they’ve been a believer for many years; they’ve seen the Spirit of God move; they’ve felt the presence; they’ve slain in the Spirit; they’ve prayed for lots of people but very few are healed. Now there’s such negativity in a person like this will this book have enough of an anointing to bust through that?

Francis: I think that it will totally break through that wall that people have that think that they can’t do it. That’s why I set up these healing schools that we’re having it’s absolutely incredible. People sitting there…well week before last we had a lady healed of multiple sclerosis. And she came back the next week and she said that “She had not walked in 13 years without 2 canes” and she said “I can run all over the place.” So our daughter said to her “Who laid hands on you? She said “Who prayed for you?” She said “I have no idea. You see it was just a believer; it wasn’t Charles and Francis; it wasn’t our daughter Joan it was just a believer that laid hands on her after she had read the book “How to Heal the Sick” and attended a healing seminar. But you see if you’ve got the baptism of the Holy Ghost you’ve got the power that I’ve got and Sid Roth has got. The only thing is you have to use that power; you have to be willing to believe that that Holy Ghost power is resident within you. Well just like they brought a lady into my office last week who had this massive goiter on the front of her neck.

Sid: Hmm, hm.

Francis:   And she didn’t speak a word of English and my Spanish is very poor so we couldn’t communicate very well except I could see what her problem was. And all I did was just laid hands on that huge goiter and I said “In Jesus Name, and there was no goiter left.” That woman absolutely had a Pentecostal Sid in Spanish (Laughing) right there in my office.

Sid: You know you hear stories about this in foreign countries.

Francis: But it happens here; as a matter of fact some people from Korea brought their little girl in this morning who was cross eyed and Charles just laid hands on her and the child eyes are perfectly straight.

Sid: Tell me because you know I read this in the book but I’ve got to hear this from your own mouth. Tell me about the 38 people that were healed of deafness in Colorado.

Francis: (Laughing) That was one of the most unusual nights that I have ever seen in my entire life. Because every once and awhile God gives you something that is really unusual. Let me tell you also before I tell you this can I tell you something that just fascinates me.

Sid: As long as we have time; go for it.

Francis: God does; you can’t put God in a box you’ve got to let God do it his way. We were down in…

Sid: I have to interrupt you; that’s why the book is so important. She shows you all of the different ways that God operates and one of those the Holy Spirit’s going to jump out at you but when you understand this your understanding the ways of God. But go ahead.

Francis: Okay, but here we are in Panama and we just ministered healing and then we had the healing teams go out and now these are just ordinary people just you know like the book said washer woman, window washers you know and all of that kinds of stuff. And all of these people just went through this tremendous crowd and then the people came up on the stage to tell what they were healed of. And so the first one said “I was blind in one eye; I was totally healed because I see perfectly now. Well I thought that was wonderful. But then the second person came up and I said “What was your problem?” They said I was blind in one eye but now I see. Well, I thought well that was absolutely wonderful. The third person came up and said the exactly the same thing. I did not realize that there were so many people that were blind in one eye. But you know what we had over 500 people that night; healed of blindness in one eye. We had one man that was blind in two eyes; and he was totally healed. But it was fascinating.

Sid: Say it again though, say that it’s not just you it’s anyone that has God within them that has Jesus within them.

Francis: You see we weren’t laying hands on them it was the people in Panama who had been trained to do just the same thing that we do. They did the same thing that’s in the book “How to Heal the Sick.” And all of those deaf eyes were open.

Sid: Okay, consider yourself on notice; God wants to use you. Are you going to say “Yes” or are you going to say “No.”