Sid:  My guest Barbie Breathitt, I’m speaking to her at her office in North Richland Hills, Texas which is adjacent to Dallas.  I was recently out there at the Metroplex, and we had a wonderful meeting there Barbie.  Tell me something, I read about what happened to you what God did to you as a new believer where you heard the audible voice of God. You were so childlike in the way you approach this. I have a question because we’re just getting to know each other.  Do you still have that childlike faith, that excitement with God?

Barbie:  Yes, I hope I never lose that.

Sid:  And by the way that’s called a backslider when you lose that.

Barbie:  That’s right.

Sid:  Let’s fill people in on what we know, you were going to a nice denominational church, a Presbyterian church, and one day you asked your pastor something, what was that question?

Barbie:  I went to my pastor and I asked him, I said “Pastor when are we going to get to do the stuff?”  And he said, “Well, what stuff are you talking about?”  I said, “You know things that they teach me about in VBS and Sunday School on the flannel board stories where Jesus walked and talked with the apostles and they did signs, wonders and miracles, when they laid hands on the sick, they were healed and the people came to salvation that that’s the kind of stuff I want to do.

Sid:  But Barbie how did you even know about stuff like that because that doesn’t, that flat doesn’t go on in most churches even Charismatic and Pentecostal.

Barbie:  That’s true but I believe the Lord had placed that within me from the childhood to seek out the deep things because the Spirit of God within me the deep calling unto deep.  And when I’d read the stories it was like I could see them happening and I decided “Man, I wish I would have been born in the time of the Bible when I could have walked with Jesus and talked with Him and seen Him and experienced these things.”  And so it was almost like I was looking back to the past in order to see those things happen; well I thought if it happened then maybe it could happen now and that’s why I went to my pastor, “When do we get to walk with Jesus, talk with Jesus and do the same things that He did?” Because I saw the Apostles doing it, and I thought why would He favor the Apostles and not move through people of today in that same way?

Sid:   So what did your Pastor say?

Barbie:  Well, he told me, he said that that was only for a certain dispensation and time and time and God could if He wanted…

Sid:  Boy, he’s got the boringest thing in the world; he has plain, flat religion, oh my goodness! He has my condolences, go ahead.

Barbie:  That’s what I thought, even as a child I was disillusioned at that point and when I thought then why did God love them more back then He loves us now and why wouldn’t God heal now if He healed back then.  And so it caused me to begin to walk away from the Lord because I thought He don’t love us anymore, you are not relevant for today.  And I was out riding my horse, and when I was out in the woods by myself riding my horse, all of a sudden I heard my name called and it came clear as a bell, “Barbie.” I knew I was out there by myself so I thought the horse can’t talk, but I began to watch his mouth and say “Where’s this coming from?”  And two more times the name “Barbie” came, “Barbie.”  And what it reminded me of the story of Samuel when Eli was in the House of God, but his eyes were growing dim and ears were deaf he couldn’t hear any longer, but God began to speak to the youth and began to call Samuel by name and I knew that story as a child.  And finally He didn’t just call my name, but He began to speak to me and He said, Barbie, if you only believe the same anointing that flowed through the Apostles of old will flow through you.  And so our part Sid is just to put our faith in God and believe His word is true.

Sid:  But wait a second, wasn’t he just saying that just for you or do you believe that’s a word He could speak to everyone listening to us?

Barbie:  I believe that’s what He is speaking to everyone that’s in the sound of the radio that would hear that.

Sid:  So prophetically…

Barbie:  Only believe.

Sid:  Prophetically speak that to those people that are listening right now.

Barbie:  I just want your ears to be open now by the Spirit of the Lord that your heart’s desire is to hear the Lord and to move into those things that He has for you, if you only believe everything that is written within the word those promises are yea and amen to you, they are for you.  They are not for distant past or far off future, but those words are for now and as you place your heart and your faith and you believe the Spirit of the Lord will come upon you and He will move through you with signs, wonders and miracles.  He will tune your ears to hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying to you personally, and to other friends that are around you and you and you will be a carrier of the Spirit of the Lord and you will move in the same anointing that the apostles of old do.  Because God is not a respecter of persons, He loves you as much as He loves them and He wants to walk and move through you just like He did the Apostles of old so you have the same opportunity as Peter, Paul, James, John the Beloved, and all of those Apostles that walked in the anointing.  Even that of Peter and Paul who wrote so much of the New Testament, that same anointing is available for you today if you just say “I Believe Lord, help my unbelief so I can step into a greater measure of believing You and allowing You to move through my life.”

Sid:  Now Barbie, you have experienced all the miracles we read in the Bible prophecy, dreams, visions, how did you get into a specialty if you will of understanding dreams and visions?

Barbie:  I believe it came through hearing the audible voice of God and allowing Him to speak to my heart, then asking Him to tune my ear. Not just for audible voice, but to hear that still small voice that so many of us hear, that’s where most of us operate all the time. When that still small voice is within us and being able to read through the Word, and it be quickened and alive to us where the Word becomes Rhema, we can apply it to our everyday life.  And the Lord blessed me with a prophetic anointing to where people would begin to tell me the dream, I would be able to activate the image center that was within me so as their words came forth God began to paint a picture for me, so I would see what they were saying and then I would ask that the Holy Spirit.  I said, “Holy Spirit these are your people, these are your children these are the ones that You have created this dream for and You have given it to them specifically because Your wanting to communicate how much you love them and what You have destined for them to walk into.  Please give me a clear hearing and a clear vision to see.” He began to train me how to move symbolically where He would give a picture that would represent something.  So what I would do is I would flow in the prophetic, the gift that He had given me to move in the prophetic ministry of seeing and hearing the voice of the Lord. Then I would see the dream that they have would have as a picture and I would just ask Holy Spirit to give me the interpretation.  So it really came out prophetic schools that I was involved in in the Lakeland Florida area through Carpenters Home Church, and the different churches there that I would be able to minister.

Sid:  It’s wonderful that you have this gift but you’re only one person, only so many people can hear you minister, but you’ve put together tools to help other people.  For instance I have the tools in front of me, one is a card that has different colors, and then it explains what the colors mean in a dream.  The second is a card called people symbols, the third is God’s dream language, and the forth really I mean it’s five items in this kit…I love this card here which lists all the major diseases and what the spiritual sources are. And the psychological sources are that has given entry of these diseases on people.  And then the last item that we put together in the kit is a CD on which you teach on God’s dream symbols and this is so practical.  But the bottom line I have to ask you is, are people able to get really good insight into their dreams just like you can get from examining your tool and other tools you have available?

Barbie:  Absolutely, I believe that one of the ways that God is speaking to His people in the last days; He said “In the last days I will pour out My Spirit upon all flesh,” and to me that means those that are born again Christians and those that are still seeking to enter into the Kingdom of God.  Both of them have the Spirit of God being poured out upon them and He’s giving them dreams. So what’s happen though they’re going to the counterfeit.  When God gives a spirit dream, and you go to something say like a physic, or a soothsayer, or a fortune teller, or a tarot card reader they are going to operate out of the soul realm, which is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So they do not have the ability to bring an accurate correct interpretation to a Spirit given dream that comes from God.  So as God pours out His Spirit on all flesh it takes a Spirit filled Christian to come up with the correct interpretation because that’s coming out of the tree to life that was in the Book of Genesis. So it has to come out of the tree of life in order to give a life giving interpretation for their dream.  But the symbols are the keys to the dream.

Sid:  …tell me a testimony of someone that has used that.

Barbie:  The healing card is powerful because I developed a friendship with a woman who was practicing witchcraft. She was a wicken witch, and so I developed a friendship with her so that I could have favor to be able to speak into her life to bring her into the kingdom of God. She shared with me one day that her daughter was going to have babies, she had twins in her womb and she was so excited.  And I was rejoicing with her, but then long enough for the sonogram for the babies to develop and she had her first sonogram.  The doctors report came back that these children, both of the babies had cyst in their brains and the doctors were saying that they needed to abort these babies.

Sid:  Bottom line, we’re out of time.

Barbie:  And so we prayed and the Lord healed both of those babies in the womb because I believe it’s the goodness of the Lord that leads people to repentance.

Sid:  One of the tools that’s going to help Christians understand Jews, and Jews understand Jesus is the debate that we recently had between, as far as I’m concerned the most well known foremost Rabbi in America Orthodox Jewish Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, and the foremost and the best Messianic Jewish scholar in America Dr. Michael Brown.  The two of them went head to head and who is the real kosher Jesus.  And a question that many Christians don’t have a clue about and many Jewish people don’t have a clue about is “What happens to a Jewish person when they die from a rabbinic viewpoint.”  Let’s see what Rabbi Shmuley Boteach had to say.

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Excerpt:  Their soul could go to this place of Gahanna for up to twelve months, is why we say the mourner prayer the caddish for eleven months.  If you did it for twelve you’re saying, “Wow that was the worst person ever.”  If you do it for eleven you’re showing that they had some redeeming graces.  The vast majority go into a place called Heaven until such time as the resurrection of the dead will bring their soul into a body where we will live eternally in a perfected state here on this earth.

Sid:  And what happens to a non Jew that dies?

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach Excerpt:  A non Jew who lives a righteous life goes to the same place as Jews, and the Jews have always believed that.  Well before any kind of interfaith dialog began you do not have to be a Jew to be saved, we do not claim an exclusivity, or copyright on truth, we believe that all are God’s children.

Sid:  Dr. Brown did I understand him right, the worst that happens to a Jewish person when they die is they suffer for eleven or twelve months. By the way, I asked the Rabbi, “What is the suffering?” The suffering is “Well, you see all the ways you have hurt other people throughout your whole life.” That’s sure a different view of the suffering I see about hell.  The worst that happens is you live a horrible life like maybe an Adolph Hitler, and in twelve months after seeing all the bad things you did then you got to the same place that the righteous Jews go to.  Did I understand that right?

Michael:  Oh, you did, you can argue that in the first century there were Jews who believe that there was eternal punishment, and there are Talmudic traditions that speak of the totally wicked person goes down means to hell and never comes up.  The totally righteous person goes straight up and everybody else which is a vast majority of the human race they go down for a little while and they come up.  Well that they go down for a little while and come up is basically what traditional Judaism where Judaism as a whole embraces now.  So the concept is the very worse person would suffer for a year, but no one is that bad so eleven months.   That’s why you pray the mourners kahdish if your family member, like you did for your dad.  If a family member dies, or your dad dies or something you go to the synagogue.

Sid:  My dad use to believe that if I would do that for him he wouldn’t have to spend as many months suffering.

Michael:  Yeah, it would help them out, it’s not exactly like that, but it’s similar to what Catholics believe about Purgatory, and pray for the dead and so on.  Here’s the idea, it’s a great concept I’d love it if it was true, wonderful.

Sid:  Everyone would become a Jew.

Michael:  Wonderful if true, but where is that written, what’s the foundation for it?  What do we do with Daniel 12:2 which is in the Hebrew Scriptures that says “Many who sleep in the dust of the earth?”  Not meaning a majority but many meaning lots and lots and lots of people.  “Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will rise; some to everlasting life and some to everlasting shame and contempt.”  Number one there’s no middle ground in the Torah there was blessing or cursing there is no middle ground.  In the Proverbs there is the righteous and wicked there is no middle ground so that’s the first thing.  Everybody rises, people go one place or the other and it’s permanent.  Whatever happens is permanent and irreversible, and you can’t change it.  And even the idea of some of the suffering is that you feel guilt for what you did.  I’m sure there’s guilt, guilt is one of the most horrific things, but there’s more than that, we suffer the judgment of God, we suffer the punishment of our sins.  And Sid our sins are worse than we realize, human beings are more guilty in God’s sight than we realize.  According to the Torah in Genesis 8 the reason God has not wiped out the earth again with a flood is not because we have improved but because our wickedness is such as a human race that He’d have to wipe us out all the time.  So He said, “I’m never going to do that again because man’s thoughts are only evil continually from the days of his youth.”  The fact of the matter is that we receive mercy from God all the time and don’t even know it.  If we reject the ultimate mercy, Messiah’s death on our behalf, Messiah taking our sins, Messiah paying for our sins, if we reject that Sid we’re lost. What are we going to do stand before God one day and say “Well, I was pretty good, I didn’t commit adultery in my mind as much as the next guy; I didn’t hate my heart as much as the next guy; I wasn’t as selfish as the next guy.”  No, no we’re guilty and you can drown in twenty feet of water or you can drown in a hundred feet of water either way you are still going to drown.  If you reject God’s mercy we’re lost and there’s no way out and there’s no turning back and there’s no exit cart, zero.

Sid:  You know Mike to me, the strongest apologetic that there is, that Jesus is the Messiah. I had an opportunity at this debate, because it was in context, I shared about my Orthodox Jewish Father, and I went to my father and the last thing in the world that he wanted to believe was that Jesus is the Messiah; the last thing that he wanted to believe.  I read the 53rd chapter of Isaiah from a Tanach, Jewish scriptures that my Orthodox Rabbi inscribed something to me in the cover of it, and my Father said, “Stop, your reading about Jesus.”  And I had a chance to show Rabbi Boteach that Tanach and he looked at it when you see the debate and you will see it…I had the opportunity to read most of Isaiah 53.  You did a PhD on the 53rd chapter of Isaiah in reference to healing.  Tell me the strongest reason in Isaiah 53 that it speaks of Jesus and not some of the apologetics’ that it’s really speaking about the Jewish people or something like that.

Michael:  Really Sid from the beginning to end of the text it’s the strongest apologetic and we were both pleased that Rabbi Shmuley respectfully let you share all that because you were hosting a debate and he let you share all of that.  He had his reaction, but you talk about a powerful intense moment, boy it was.

Sid:  You know I felt like the Holy Spirit showed me how I’d be able to get away with it and the Holy Spirit was right but go ahead.

Michael:  Yeah, and he had his reaction to it and the audience heard the whole thing and it was quite amazing.  But you start in Isaiah 52:13 going on 53:12, and it speaks of one whose going to be so highly exalted that the Rabbis’ said He’s going to be more exalted than Abraham, Moses, or the angels.  But first He’s going to be terribly disfigured and not even recognized as a human being He’s so disfigured.

Sid:  Excuse me this was written 800 – 8,000 years before Jesus came to earth you know, this wasn’t written after the fact.

Michael:  No, no Sid only 700.

Sid:  Okay.

Michael:  That’s the point, 700 hundreds and hundreds of years before Jesus who could have imagined this so He’s going to be highly exalted, but He’s going to suffer terribly first and the message about Him when kings hear it, “Ahhh, I’ve never heard of such a thing.”  And then it unfolds, “Who believes our report?”  Who believes this message we’re carrying?  He didn’t grown up significant, He’s like a nobody, Nazareth? Carpenters Son?  That’s what they thought He lives in Nazareth, it’s nowhere land, just an obscure Guy. He grows up nothing special about Him.  But then here’s what happens He ends up sitting in for us, He ends up taking our place.  We think He’s dying because He’s guilty, here’s what the text says.  We think He’s dying because He’s guilty, only afterwards do we realize, “Uhh, it was our sicknesses He was carrying, it was our sins He was baring, and by His wounds at the cost of his wounds there was healing for us.”  And yes I did my PhD, and the Hebrew word for healing and it’s ancient Near Eastern context, restoration, restoration for the whole person at the cost of His wounds.  And then it goes on to describe how He’s taken away the prisoner to the judgment how He goes as a lamb to the slaughter.  And then it speaks of Him not only dying a violent death, the Hebrew is in the plural, there it’s violent death, but it even speaks of His grave and He ends up He’s appointed with the wicked but His tomb was with the rich.  But it’s in detail the way it unfolds and then He’s going to see light, see the light of life as it reads in the Dead Sea Scrolls.  In other words He’s going to resurrect, He’s going to have a future, He’s going to make Himself a guilt offering; He is going to make many righteous and God is going to reward Him because He interceded for sinners and was numbered with the transgressors.  It is the clearest presentation of the gospel through a Jewish narrative anywhere in the entire Bible, and the revelation is we didn’t understand what was happening?  Who does that speak of? Rabbis, sincere Rabbis, devoted Jews around the world.

Sid:  It starts out with “Who will believe the report of the prophets?”  I mean it’s even saying today there will be those that will not believe these straight forward reports of the prophets.

Michael:  And then people say, “Well where, count your missionaries, rabbis say where does it say we have to believe?  Well, Isaiah 53:1 “Me heh-ehmee l’shmu-ahtaynu”, “Whose believed our report?”  This is the report we are now giving, who has believed it?  And you have Zachariah 12:10 to bring in another text “v’hebaytu aylai et asher dokru” “that the Jewish people living in Jerusalem will look to one that they pierced.”  The day will come when eyes of understanding will be open on a national level. But it says in 2^nd Corinthians 3:1 “Any one,” (any Jewish person) turns to the Lord the veil is lifted.”  All of us Jew and Gentile before we came to faith had a veil over our eyes, but there’s a specific promise when the Jewish people turn to the Lord the veil is lifted.

Sid:  But there have been times in history that the veil has lifted on multitudes of Jewish people.

Michael:  It’s lifting now Sid.

Sid: And especially in Israel and if Jesus hasn’t been your Messiah and Lord, repent because He’s coming back soon.  Tell Him your sorry, believe the blood of Jesus is strong enough to wash away your sins. Ask Him to live inside of you and become your Lord…

Sid:  I’ll tell you what, I have a dream and my dream is that Jewish people will think for themselves, not think what I say, not think what their Rabbis’ says, but get a hold of the only book that Muslims, Jews and Christians all are in 100% agreement come from God, at least that’s the way it use to be with Jewish people and that’s the Torah.  And there are many Jewish people that don’t know that the Torah comes from God, but you get a hold of that one book and think for yourself!  And that’s my dream, you don’t have to believe, but you must think for yourself on the most important question of your eternity.  Now we had a debate with the foremost Messianic Jewish scholar in America, and probably the best known Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in America, Dr. Michael Brown, the Messianic Jew, and Rabbi Shmuley Boteach the Orthodox Rabbi.  The subject “Who is the Real Jesus?”  And I put the question to Rabbi Boteach and I said, “Rabbi we don’t have a temple today therefore according to Torah you can’t have a blood sacrifice unless it’s done in the temple; what do we Jews do about the blood today.”  And this was His answer:

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach recorded answer.  The Messiah in Judaism is someone who must fulfill the Messianic prophecies, and the idea that the Messiah comes along to absolve us of sin. As Mike was saying before that we need blood because the temple is no longer in existence.  Mike is well aware of the fact that the most famous story of repentance in the entire Bible is a story of Jonah where not one drop of blood is even spilt.  Jonah sends God, God sends Jonah to the city of Nineveh and Nineveh says, “You guy are all toast unless you repent and there’s not a single blood sacrifice, there is not a single animal brought, they repented of their ways.  You don’t have to have blood sacrifices and the suffering servant.  The idea of a suffering servant which you are quoting from Isaiah 53 clearly if you want to just get literal it can’t be Jesus because Jesus says on the cross, My God, My God why have you forsaken me both in Mark and in Matthew where it says there.  “Whoever it speaking of goes silently to His death and doesn’t complain at all.”

Sid:  All right we’re back in the studio now that was an excerpt from the debate. The most amazing, amazing…tension.  We had unsaved Jewish people in the audience; we had Christians in the audience. I mean the video footage of the reactions and the tension that was going on it’s just like reading the New Testament.  So Mike “How do you handle Jonah, no blood?”

Michael:  God never commanded the Gentile nations to build the temple and to offer blood sacrifices that was the role of Israel as a priestly nation.  The Gentile nations needed to repent and turn to God it was up to the Jews to be the priestly nation to offer sacrifices not only on their own behalf, but on the behalf of the sins of the world.  There is even a Rabbinic Tradition that when the temple was being destroyed the second temple was being destroyed in the year 70 of this era, that one of the Rabbis said, “Foolish Romans, foolish gentiles who’s going to intercede for you now, whose going to do this for you if you are destroying the temple?”  So Israel as the priestly nation offered the sacrifices, interceded between human beings and God, and the Gentiles, people of Nineveh and Syrians they just had to repent and return to God.  God never gave them blood sacrifices. But here’s the thing, blood sacrifices are the heart and soul of the atonement system in the Torah.  Read through the entire…

Sid:  But wait a second Mike, there is mention of other sacrifices, other offerings besides blood sacrifices in Torah.

Michael:  The fact of the matter is there’s one mention of flour offerings if someone was too poor to even bring an animal of a bird, but the point of fact the flour offering was still offered on the altar was added in, was thrown on top of the fire offerings, the blood sacrifices that were already there.  And no Jew….

Sid:  And so the foundation was always an animal sacrifice.

Michael: Yeah, what Jew in the world ever say “I have flour, I can make atonement I have flour?”  It’s folly, the fact is the heart and soul, the foundation of the entire atonement system was blood sacrifices.  Repentance is important, but go through the entire Torah and see how many times repentance or confession of sin is mentioned just a few. Blood sacrifices over and over.  Go to the day of Atonement, the central day of atonement in the Biblical calendar for the Jewish people worldwide, to this day it’s centered on blood sacrifices to purge the tabernacle to cleans the people to atone for their sins; a sacrifice to carry the sins that went into the wilderness.

Sid:  But what about Leviticus 17:11?

Michael:  Leviticus 17:11 says plainly that God has given the blood on the altar because it’s the blood that makes atonement for our souls by reason of the life.  In other words when the blood is drained out the life force is gone.  So it is life for life as some rabbinic commentators understood.  It is substitutionary I’m guilty, instead of me dying the blood sacrifice dies instead. So here’s the whole thing you take that away yeah repentance is still important, yes prayer is still important, yes the other things are important but you’ve taken away the heart and soul of the entire atonement system.  And once those are taken away Sid there is no atonement either as the Jewish people, as the nation for 1,900+ years we have had no national atonement and God has no to us every Yom Kippur, every day of atonement for almost 2,000 years where God provided a better way.  Isn’t it fascinating that the same one that said He would fulfill the law and the prophets, He would bring to fullness the things that they were speaking of and pointing to.  Was also prophesied the destruction of the temple, so Jesus, Yeshua, the last and greatest prophet the Messiah and the one to whom the sacrificial system was pointing said “Take My life, I will be the ransom.”  And point in fact as He was going to death when He was being tried He didn’t resist, when the scriptures say in Isaiah 53 “He went as a lamb to the slaughter.” He did, it was striking to everyone that He didn’t defend Himself that He didn’t try to fight, why?  Because He came as a lamb, Sid there is atonement for our people; there is forgiveness for our people, and it is found in the perfectly righteous One.  It says in Isaiah 53 “He would be an ah-shom, a guilt offering a reparation offering that He would take the place of the sins of the people.  Isaiah 53:6 lays it out so plainly.  The Hebrew begins with kulonu and it ends with kulonu, “All of us like sheep have gone astray each one has turned his own way and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of all of us.”  He takes our sin when we turn to God in repentance God, wash me, God cleans me, give me a brand new heart, give me a brand new start that’s what happens through the power of Messiah’s blood.

Sid:  Now the Rabbi raised the apologetic of Jesus when He was dying on the cross, he said, “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?”

Michael:  Yeah, He’s pointing to Psalm 22, in saying those words He’s pointing us to Psalm 22 one of the most amazing Psalms written by David according to Psalm 22, but speaking of something more than David’s suffering.  Some Rabbis’ say that it’s the parable of the suffering of the people of Israel through the centuries.  Yeshua is saying “Look at this it’s a Psalm of an ideal righteous sufferer, it’s a Psalm of someone who comes to the jaws of death, the description there, it looks like a description of a crucified person.  You read it and say, “Awe that sounds like a crucified person being described there and crucifixion it was devised hundreds of years later by the Persians.

Sid:  So he was looking into the future when David  wrote that.

Michael:  Yeah, he’s speaking beyond, he’s speaking prophetically, he’s speaking poetically of his own suffering, but prophetically speaking beyond them.  And here’s what’s amazing he get’s delivered from death and the deliverance is so great that he calls for all the ends of the earth to praise God, it even say that the ends of the earth will turn to God.  Who died, what righteous one died, was delivered from the jaws of death and His deliverance from death is so profound that the ends of the earth turn to God, who else is that Sid?  So Jesus hanging on the cross draws our attention to that Psalm, and the idea that He wouldn’t lift his voice to cry out.  It’s talking about resisting arrest, it’s talking about resisting death clearly there in Isaiah 53.  Like a Lamb going to slaughter, like a sheep before his shearers is dumb.

Sid:  But why, what was the real reason at that moment that Jesus cried out that prophetic Psalm 22 by King David, “My God my God why have you rejected me?”

Michael:  It gets us looking at the Psalm, number one, and number two it gets us to understand that at that moment He’s barring the guilt and the sin of the world.  At that moment He is taking the punishment and the wrath that you and I deserve.

Sid:  How could anyone bare the sins of the world?  I mean that is beyond my comprehension.

Michael:  Think of this, He and His Father enjoyed perfect fellowship from before the creation of the world.

Sid:  He said that He didn’t do anything unless He saw His Father doing it.

Michael:  He said, “The Fathers always with me because I only do what pleases Him.  That’s how He lived, and now he is the one in the public way taking on our punishment, taking on our guilt, He did not become a sinful person; he took the penalty of our sin.  Who can imagine what was happening in the heart of God towards His Son at that moment?  Who can imagine it was not just crucifixion; who can imagine what Yeshua bore for us?  And this is what I want our Jewish people to understand, we need a Messiah like Him; we need a Messiah who can identify within the midst of our suffering.  We need a Messiah that’s not just high and lofty and going to come riding on a white horse one day.  We suffered in Auschwitz people; we suffered in the crusades and the inquisitions of the pogroms, we’ve suffered through all of our history.  We need to look at a Messiah that suffered like we did and more and yet was perfectly innocent; One that could say, I understand your suffering and I have the remedy for suffering because all suffering is ultimately do to us being estranged from God and in a fallen broken world and Messiah brings us back.  Sid it’s the Messiah we need, it’s the Messiah of the scriptures.

Sid:  He was sin-less, He was the only person that ever walked as a man sin-less.  It says your sins have separated you from God.  Therefore one sin would have separated Jesus from God, but the sins of the whole world, no wonder God couldn’t look at Him

Michael:  Yeah, yeah and at that moment at that moment the feeling was of one being forsaken and abandoned by God.  But that’s not the end of the Psalm it’s the beginning of the Psalm.  And I wish that every Jewish person would read this.  And in my book “The Real Kosher Jesus” I have a chapter on the secret of the suffering Messiah; and not just how Biblical this concept is, how Jewish this concept is.

Sid:  Christians have never realized, read the New Testament through the eyes of the Jewish Paul, through the eyes of the Jewish Jesus.  What an eye opener…

Sid:  I have Dr. Michael Brown in the studio. Dr. Brown and I go back many many years, and I am so privileged to have been able to put together a debate between America’s Rabbi, an Orthodox Rabbi, Shmuley Boteach, and Dr. Michael Brown. He is the top Messianic Jewish scholar in the world as far as I’m concerned, on who is the “The Real Kosher Jesus?”  The audience, the real studio audience, was on the edge of their seat, we had the best representative of the traditional Jewish community. I have to put it this way, as far as I’m concerned, the best representative of the real Jewish community. Because as far as I’m concerned you can’t be a true Jew, you can be a Jew, but you can’t be a true Jew unless you know the Jewish Messiah and He lives inside of you.  You can’t understand scripture unless you have the Spirit of God and the Word of God with the scriptures written down in them.  Now one of the things that the Orthodox Rabbis feel strongly about is they have been entrusted as the true teachers of Torah, and you can’t understand Torah unless you understand the oral law, or the Talmud.  The problem is this is much more than Moses got if he got a moral law at all. How big is the oral law today Dr. Brown?

Michael:  Oh, tens of thousands of volumes.

Sid:  So you think Moses got that on Mt. Sinai?

Michael:  Well, see the Jewish view would be that he got the principals of interpretation and specifics of interpretation so that he could transmit those on.  The problem is we don’t find the evidence of that, the problem is out of all the thousands of rabbinic and Jewish laws and traditions that have been developed over the centuries is the Rabbis have zealously sought to preserve what they understood was Torah life.  The fact is you don’t find God ever dealing with those in the scripture.

Sid:  Is the Talmud mentioned in the New Testament or the Old Testament at all?

Michael:  Oh, the Talmud itself, the Babylonian Talmud is the primary one, is put in writing in the fifth and sixth century so about 500 years after the time of Jesus.

Sid:  But is the oral law mentioned in the New Testament or the Old Testament?

Michael:  The traditions are mentioned, Jesus speaks about the traditions of the Fathers and sometimes…

Sid:  I thought that came from “Fiddler on the Roof.”  Go ahead.

Michael:  No the traditions of the Fathers, here’s the deal some traditions are fine, some traditions are great; the fact going to a synagogue that was a tradition Jesus went to the synagogue that’s fine.  Not all traditions are wrong, but what Jesus dealt with was this when the traditions took authority over the Word.  He said for example in Mark 7 to some of the Jewish teachers “You have a fine way of setting aside the Word of God with you your traditions.”  Every church has traditions, every religious group has traditions, every human being has traditions, that’s fine, but when the traditions take on a divine authority that they don’t have and when the traditions come in conflict with the Word of God that’s where the challenge is.  Sid, think about this and I lay this out in depth in my book “The Real Kosher Jesus.” Yeshua has a conflict with many of the religious leaders.  Rabbi Shmuley my dear friend, says “No, that didn’t really happen, Jesus was a Rabbi, he was a Pharisee, the Rabbis loved Him, they were all in harmony they were all in harmony it was the correct High Priest and the Romans that had a problem with Jesus,” okay.   And yeah the corrupt High Priest did and so did the Romans but He had a lot of conflict even with the Pharisees.

Sid:  Of course!

Michael:  Why?  Because He was a Prophet, just like Jeremiah had a conflict.  When Jeremiah spoke to the destruction of the first temple they didn’t applaud him, they were ready to kill him.  And you have text like Jeremiah 26 that say that all the other prophets and all the priests and all the political establishments they all wanted to kill him.  That’s what happens when a prophet speaks a prophet speaks with divine authority, and unless we understand Jesus, Yeshua, to be not just a Rabbi, but to be a prophet sent by God, the last and greatest prophet,  the prophet like Moses and even greater than Moses.  Unless we see Yeshua like that we don’t understand the New Testament.  And the Rabbis need to say “Oh, He was the one speaking with divine authority, we had our traditions, He was speaking with divine authority.  So let me ask you a question, when you read through the Old Testament, when you read throught the Torah does it say, “Well Moses said this and Aaron said this and they had a debate?”  No, the Lord to spoke to Moses and Moses spoke to Aaron.  Do you hear the prophets say “Well, Isaiah said this and Jeremiah said this and Zechariah said this and so we are going to debate.  No, No “Thus says the Lord!”

Sid:  And that’s what the Rabbinic writings, the Talmud is all about the debates.  One Rabbi says this, another Rabbi says this, and the majority of the Rabbis’ say, but this is the conclusion because this is the answer.  So obviously half the Rabbis’ weren’t inspired and half were based on their standard.

Michael:  And there’s a view that says that they’re both inspired because they’re both the Words of God because they’re both streams of tradition. You say, “Okay that’s a very nice concept, but number one it’s self contradictory.”

Sid:  Let’s see what Rabbi Shmuley Boteach has to say about that question during the debate on “What is the Oral Tradition.”

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach during debate excerpt:  It’s very easy to prove that the oral tradition was given to Moses at Sinai, very easy I’ll just use a single proof.  The Bible says that on the Feast of Tabernacles, in Hebrew we call it Sukkot you have to take a pr’ate Ha-dar, you have to take a choice fruit, and you have to take other things that go from the ground and you have to wave it.  This is where the tradition of the lulav of the palm comes from, which survives in Christianity today with Palm Sunday etc.  When Jesus is welcomed they said, “Hoshanna” Hoshanna is part of our tradition of taking the lulav.  Now listen to what it says, “You have to take a choice fruit.”  So imagine Moses comes down, let’s say Mike is right, Torah doesn’t say anything about an oral interpretation of the law.  So Moses comes down from Sinai and he says “Hey, I was just talking to God and He said, “On Tabernacle you have to take a choice fruit.”  And the Jews look at him and they say, “Which fruit?”  And Moses said, “I don’t know He did not say, there is no oral tradition.”  Now imagine what the synagogue would have looked like that Sunday!  It would have looked like farmers market. One guy hears a choice fruit, that to him is a cluster of grapes, he’s waving grapes.  The next guy says I love pomegranates.  Another guy with his kids holding a giant watermelon you know trying to wave it, but interestingly you will see that all Jews use a citron, they use an etsrog in Hebrew as that choice fruit because of course it was interpreted otherwise the whole Torah is mumble jumble it makes absolutely no sense.

Sid:  Okay but the question was, “Where in Torah does it say there is an oral law?”

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach:  Oh, it says in Deuteronomy it says that you must listen to all of the sages who instruct you in that day.

Sid:  Well, Dr. Michael Brown why don’t you respond on this radio interview to that. I’ll tell you that was such an eye opening debate for Christians, and for Jews. In the audience we had Christians, and we had Jews that did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah.  And we had a lot of fruit from that debate, but go ahead.

Michael Brown:  Yeah, and again Rabbi Shmuley is doing a great job of representing the traditional Jewish viewpoint there that the Torah is given as ambiguous. It says “Don’t work on the Sabbath there is a death penalty if you work,” but it doesn’t tell you what work is and everything has to have these detailed laws. Well, the problem is (snickering) when you get into Rabbinic laws it’s not just a little clarification it’s hundreds of laws, it’s thousands of laws it takes years to master what the laws are. Yet God just spoke it to Israel and they said “Yes, we’ll obey.”  Theres no evidence of those thousands of laws that are within the Torah.  So first thing when Rabbi Shmuley said, “The Torah says “Follow the Sages.”  No it doesn’t say that that’s a misuse.  We talked about it yesterday, it’s a misuse of Deuteronomy chapter 17 which is just speaking of the court system that God would establish.  When you have a legal dispute you go there and they settle it.  It wasn’t saying that the Rabbis can tell you what time you get up in the morning and what to pray, how to pray it, what words to say.

Sid:  Alright if that is they’re authority, if that establishes their authority and it’s a misquote then what about the whole structure of Rabbinic Judaism as far as influencing our Jewish people?

Michael:  It has exerted an authority over our people that for all the good it’s done in preserving our people, and for all be beauty of the traditions it’s ultimately been detrimental in terms of the Rabbis taking on authority God never gave.  Sid, “How could that be for the good of our people when…”

Sid:    As far as I’m concerned Mike, Rabbinic Judaism has put a picket fence around Jewish people to prevent Jewish people from thinking for themselves as to who Jesus is, and that outweighs all the good that they’ve accomplished.

Michael:  Rabbinic Judaism would basically say that we in this generation are less than the people of the last generation and they were less than the people of the last.  There’s a Talmudic tradition that says “If this generation is men, then the former generation was angels; and if this generation is donkey’s the former generation was men.”  In other words each generation is further away from the revelation. So Sid “Who are you and I to argue with the Rabbis’ because they learned it from the generations past, the generations past settled it and therefore…”  Sid you don’t think for yourself of who Jesus is because the Rabbis who were there rejected Him and that settles it.

Sid:  Yeah, but all the Rabbis that accepted Him, in other words some Rabbi whose name I don’t even know said Jesus wasn’t the Rabbi, another Rabbi whose name I don’t even know said, “Jesus was the Messiah.”  And I am living my life based on some Rabbi whose name I don’t even know that might have been on the wrong side of the fence.

Michael:  But Sid your thinking too individualistically, you see you have to think as part of the people of Israel, and the people of Israel have the traditions and the laws.  Ultimately here’s what’s so funny and it’s kind of ironic, there was no study tradition more intense than the Rabbinic study tradition, you talk about people using their minds and thinking day and night and wrestling out knotty problems, but you must think within the walls, you cannot think outside of those walls.  And for any Jewish person listening especially traditional Jew you know there’s some times you questioned the Rabbis’ you know there’s some contradictions you see, you know there’s some things that don’t line up right.  Could it be that these Rabbis as sincere as they are, are wrong on the most fundamental thing of all, who is the Messiah?  Could it be they’re wrong?  Oh yeah,  use your mind just within these parameters if you dare think outside of the traditions…awe now there’s something matter with you.

Sid:  But when you go back to that conservative Rabbi that I was talking about on Monday, but this Conservative Rabbi had the debate with a Christian Minister, when you go back to him and he says the foundation of God that has been given to us we know is the book of Genesis, and he tosses it and says “It’s not inspired, you can believe anything you want.”

Michael:  Hey which Rabbis then the Conservative Rabbis’, the Reformed Rabbis’, the Orthodox Rabbis’, the Ultra Orthodox Rabbis’.  You say “Well they all agree that Jesus is not the Messiah,” isn’t that interesting they have so many other disagreements could it be they got this wrong?”

Sid:  Well my guest is red hot for the Messiah, that’s an understatement for Dr. Michael Brown. As far as I’m concerned he is the most outstanding Messianic Jewish scholar on the face of the map today.  He was handpicked by God for this assignment; when he became a Jewish believer in Jesus as a young man he had such an encounter with the Lord just like I did, that no one could talk him out of his faith even his Rabbi.  But his rabbi really floored him one day when he challenged him on “Young man do you speak Hebrew?”  Tell me about that Mike.

Michael:  Yeah the Rabbi and I became friends he was the new Rabbi of the Conservative Synagogue where I’d been Bar Mitzvahed. So I’m sixteen years old, seventeen years old I’m reading the Bible day and night.  I’m praying and he’s fresh out of seminary he’s about ten or eleven years older than me and he challenges me “Look, you don’t know Hebrew, how can you talk to us how can you explain; it would be like a kid who knows 2 + 2 = 4 is going to lecture a Physics Professor, or someone like calculus

Sid:  He’s finished, he’s become a Rabbi, who are you?

Michael:  Right, he learned it from his father, who learned it from his father even though he was conservative and wasn’t really Orthodox, his upbringing was more Orthodox so I told him well, in the meantime I’ve got the Strong Concordance and in the back of the Strong’s Concordance there’s a Hebrew dictionary.  I remember what he said to me, “Meantime, shmeen time, if you can’t read the Hebrew it doesn’t mean anything.  And then he brings me to meet Ultra Orthodox Rabbis in Brooklyn.  Now I’m a believer at this point about a year and a half, I’ve read the Bible the King James through cover to cover about five times, I’ve been memorizing twenty verses a day for at least six months so I’ve got about 4,000 verses memorized; I’ve got the Bible down cold.

Sid:  And you know you’ve experientially come to know Jesus, you know Him.

Michael:  He’s transformed me, I was shooting Heroin, I was living in rebellion, I was lost. The Lord turned my life around there is undeniable that He sought me out, that He convicted me and He got hold of me and He turned me around.  Somebody asked me the other day when I got off drugs did I go through rehab?  I said, “No, it was basically  instant, God got hold of me and I was set free and that was basically that.” So I knew that and I had a wonderful fellowship with the Lord; I would meet with Him and I would pray, and when I would be in His presence the joy, it was undeniable, not just what He did, but who He was in my life.

Sid:  So what did you do with this challenge?

Michael:  Well, the Rabbis, these Ultra Orthodox Rabbis they take out their Hebrew Bible, now remember they’ve been reading this since they were little kids and their pointing letter for letter because the little Hebrew I learned when I was Bar Mitzvahed I had forgotten.  So they’re pointing letter for letter like they said, “Were not lying to you, I felt like a little kindergartner; I letter by letter I thought I’ve got to learn this so.  When I started college and Sid to be honest I only went to college in those days to honor my parents, to honor my father in particular because they wanted me to go and I still had my hippy mentality “Who needs college and all that.”  So I said, “Of course I’ll honor you, I’ll go”  I go to college and I thought I should start taking Hebrew, but they had modern Hebrew, I didn’t want to speak Hebrew I wanted to read Biblical Hebrew and they’re pretty different.  So I got a Biblical Hebrew Grammar, a Rabbi recommended it and I taught myself Biblical Hebrew and I thought, “You know, I’m really interested in studying this some more so when I was in college I said, “I should learn Arab because that’s like a sister language.  But the New Testament was written in Greek, I should work on that, but Latin is also an important language.  But you know when you do academic studying you need to learn German and but Yiddish that’s like our family language and my Dad spoke Yiddish before he spoke English so I ended up taking six languages at the same time in college which wasn’t the smartest thing.  But I went on the NYU I did my Masters and PhD in Near Eastern Languages and Literatures. Ultimately worked with about twelve thirteen different languages at different levels of proficiency.

Sid:  I have to believe your knowledge of Hebrew because of all these side languages that you mastered some dozen or so that you speak, read or write put you in a class beyond most Rabbis even.

Michael:  You see the Rabbis would be massively fluent in the Hebrew literature in the related Aramaic literature and the Talmud, massively fluent within the walls of their tradition.  In other words if their scientific study of the text if there’s a better way to read Biblical Hebrew there’s a larger science to it. So by learning the surrounding languages and culture really enables you to do it and yeah I love to study, I love to study to this day I don’t work it Babylonian today as I used to but I still love the study.

Sid:  Did you get that Babylonian?

Michael:  Yeah.

Sid:  Babylonian, ha it sounds like Babel to me.

Michael:  Yeah, well these are amazing languages to study and it’s exciting and all of that, but the fact of the matter is I want it to, it was personnel integrity I knew what God had done in my life.

Sid:  Okay here’s my question to you, the same the Rabbi had for you.  Yes you had an experience with Jesus; a Rabbi would call it an emotional experience.  Yes, you found a lot of scriptures that look like Jesus is the Messiah.  But you don’t know Hebrew. Now after having studied Hebrew, studying eleven other Semitic languages, memorizing most of the Old Testament, I might add in Hebrew.  Is there anything that causes you to doubt that Jesus is the only way to God, the only Messiah of Israel, the only Messiah of the world?

Michael:  Nothing, nothing, zero, nothing the more I’ve studied the more I’ve loved God with all my heart and mind.  The more I’ve studies Sid the surer and surer I’ve become.  God is my witness, any debate that I’ve ever done, any challenge I’ve ever had from Rabbi for years and decades I never, ever, ever worry for a split second that anything is going to be raised that would cause me to question one iota of my faith.  It’s not just a matter of He changed my life; it’s a matter of He is the One who is spoken of.  I haven’t memorized quite that much of scripture but I’ve been in it over and over and over and over and taking all the challenges and I’ve no question.  I have less question about Jesus the Yeshua being the Messiah than I even question I’m sitting here in the room with you; it is the very bedrock and foundation of my life based on truth of scripture Sid.

Sid:  Okay, let’s go to the debate, this was a debate between one of the most outstanding Orthodox Jewish Rabbis’ in America, many people even consider him America’s Rabbi. Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Dr. Michael Brown a top, top Messianic Jewish scholar if not the top in the world.  And we’re going to ask him what well, you’ll hear my question.

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach and Dr. Michael Brown Debate excerpt:

 Sid:  This is one of the perhaps most important questions I’m going to ask this evening and I’ll stop with Rabbi Boteach.  In the Jewish community, and I was raised in a traditional Jewish family the Rabbi is highly revered, he is our source of understanding of Judaism.  What is the authority of the Rabbis’, where do the Rabbis’ get there authority to be in such a place, honored place before the Jewish Community?

Rabbi Shmuley Boteach:  First of all I guess you don’t pray at my Synagogue. It’s high reverence, God willing hopefully.  Well, Judaism, thank you at least someone chuckled at that.  Judaism is a religion of learning.  Torah means instruction, it doesn’t even really mean law, it means instruction. Torah from the word ho-rah to instruct, to guide.  Because we believe that God gives us His law, the Torah to help us guide our lives and the Rabbis are looked up to because they are the people who study the Torah.

Sid:  Mike, I wasn’t satisfied with his answer, where do the Rabbi’s get their authority over the Jewish Community?

Michael:   Basically this would be the concept that’s really we’re seeking to convey. When you have a law based religion, and you believe that God wants you to live your life according to every detail of what He’s given in the Torah.  Then the Torah teachers are the ones that are going to want to have the authority because you have to go to them, what does this text mean, how am I to live this out?  And there’s a text in Deuteronomy 17 which is basically been misapplied in the rabbinic tradition.  The text in Deuteronomy 17 says that “if you have some legal dispute, let’s say that it’s an issue of bloodshed or something so you go to the court, the highest court in your area, it could be the Levitical priest, the judges whoever’s there and you share the case and whatever their verdict is you have to obey you can’t violate it.  They say you go left you go left, go right whatever the verdict is you have to obey what they say.”  Well it’s the court system, well basically that authority from Deuteronomy 17 has now been given to the Rabbis, so if the Rabbis say go left you go left, if the Rabbi say go right you go right.  If the Rabbi’s say Jesus is the Messiah, he’s the Messiah.  If the Rabbis say he’s not the Messiah He’s not the Messiah.  The Text has nothing to do with the Rabbis, nor was that authority ever given to man.

Sid:  Well, even beyond that in the Talmudic writings they basically say the only voice of God on earth, this is the way I understand it you correct me, the only real voice of God on earth is the majority of the Rabbis.

Michael:  Right basically they would say the spirit that was on the prophets is now on the Rabbis, and you’ve got to be pragmatic Sid, the Supreme Court comes to a five forward decision that’s the law.

Sid:  So if a voice from heaven says go right and the majority of the rabbis say go left what happens?

Michael:  The Torah is no longer in heaven; the Torah has been given to us to work out.

Sid:  So there can’t be a voice from heaven?

Michael:  It would get over ruled.  Now here’s what I believe Sid.

Sid:   Oy Vey, which loosely means Oy Vey.

Michael:  What I believe though is it’s easier to say the voice would be overruled until the voice actually speaks.

Sid:  Okay, so the way I look at it Mike, the Rabbis do not have authority over the Jewish people from heaven.  The Rabbis do not have authority over the Jewish people, period! Correct me if I’m wrong.

Michael:  Here’s how I look at it, they have been caretakers, they have been shepherds, they have been fine people that have wanted to guard Israel, the Jewish people and keep them in what they believe is the Jewish calling, to be obedient to Torah and tradition.

Sid:  That’s good by the way that’s preserved our people in a sense.

Michael:  Right and I appreciate that, however, when there’s a conflict between what the Rabbis say and what the scripture says, when there’s a conflict of what the Rabbis say and what the Holy Spirit is saying, when there’s a conflict between what the Rabbis are saying and what the Messiah is saying, it is incumbent that every Jew respectfully say to the Rabbis, “I respect you but I obey God and His word,” period.

Sid:  Doesn’t it bother you what this wonderful friendship you’ve established with this rabbi that if he were to die in the state he is right now he would not go to heaven. Does that brother you?

Michael:  Of course it bothers me deeply.

Sid:  Well, I don’t get it, if there was a one percent chance that what we’re saying is true, it’s everything, it’s all of eternity.  How can he and others be so blind?

Michael:  Well, they look at church history; they see a great misrepresentation of Jesus.

Sid:  Oh, I’ll tell you what we got to pick up here on tomorrows broadcast.

Sid:   Now my guest hast to be red hot for the Messiah, his name is Rob DeLuca he is a pastor from New Zealand.  And on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that Rob was saved and spirit filled at 11, but then like many drifted into drugs.  At eighteen on the street a women walked up to him, laid hands on him, he experienced the power of God, and he turned his life over the Lord.  And he went from ground level zero because Rob it’s hard to believe but you sunk so low from the drug culture that you were living in a cardboard box.  You rededicated your life to the Lord and one day and this is fascinating, one day you were praying at a church and you had the presence of the Lord came in, tell me about that.

Rob:  I had just got off the streets and I was working at the church as the church janitor. They gave me the keys so at night time I would go over the church and I would pray.  And I would lay down prostrate before the Lord at the altar and I would begin to pray in tongues, and pray, I was so hungry for God I would sometimes lay there for two or three hours and just praying and worshipping.

Sid:  Out of curiosity when you were praying was it mostly in unknown tongues?

Rob:  Much of it was and so I would just worship and cry out in my understanding.

Sid:  And also out of curiosity I don’t know about you, but I find many prophets that I interview even before they were saved the gift was operational with them, they just didn’t understand it.  Was that true with you or did that come after your encounter with the Lord?

Rob:  No it very much so, the gift was already operating in my life, I was able to see things, but I also had a great aunt that taught me and a grandmother that taught me when I came to the Lord they taught me how to hear and see. So that helped because I already had the gift there but they were showing me how to operate in the gift.

Sid:  Okay, let’s take you back the church on that particular encounter.

Rob:  Well, I was praying and the presence of God was all over that sanctuary and I was lying prostrate before the Lord and I began to pray in tongues and I started to groan in the Spirit and I began to travail, some people call it laboring in the Spirit.  And as I did that my body began to shake on the floor, but it started to shake so much that I started to hover off of the ground about two or three feet.

Sid:  Had this experience ever happened to you before?

Rob:  Never, never.

Sid:  It’s never happened to most people I know, but go ahead.

Rob:  You know I never ever heard of it, I didn’t know what was taking place, all I know is that God’s presence was so strong on me that I knew that it was God and I was hovering in the air.  At that moment my Spirit left my body, went right out of the roof of the church building.  I saw the city below, I saw the hills, I saw the clouds and I went straight through the heavens, and as I did I saw this light and as I started to shoot toward the light in the Spirit I saw these huge beautiful doors open up. I went right through the doors and I went into God’s lap, Father God’s lap.  And as I did that I felt His arms wrap around me and I began to weep.  As that took place God the Father began to speak to me and He told me about my life, He told me about the future of my life and He also shared with me concerning all the people that I knew in my life.  And I was listening to the voice of the Father speak to me He said, “I want you to see something” and He pointed His hand toward this big huge jewel that was hovering next to Him and it was a beautiful jewel, it was huge and on every facet of the jewel I saw a person’s name whether it was somebody I knew from school, or from my upbringing or a relative, a neighbor, or just a family name that I knew. The Lord spoke to me and He said, “You see these people?”  I want you to pray for them that they will be saved also.  And I want you to pray for these that all would be saved and God spoke to me some personal things after that concerning the lives of those that I was praying for and He gave me a big list that night, but as that took place He said, “It’s time for you to go back and share and pray with these.”  And as soon as He said that I was weeping and crying as soon as He said that I felt my spirit go right back into my body and I fell to the floor shaking and weeping crying.  And I knew I had an encounter with God, what seemed to be five minutes turned into four and a half hours.  So I started at a certain time but I didn’t leave this church sanctuary until 1:30 in the morning, I think I went in there almost about eigh’ish and so it was really an encounter that took a long span within natural time.

Sid:  Now Rob approximately how long ago was this?

Rob:  This was 23 years ago.

Sid:  Out of curiosity are many of those people that you were told to pray for saved now?

Rob:  I’ve seen many saved some I have not seen since then but I’ve prayed for them.  Matter of fact one night I ran into a man that I was praying, his name was Greg Fernandez. I was praying for him, praying for him, praying for him hadn’t seen him for three years.  I walked up to him outside a store and he looked at me and smiled and he said, “I heard that you’re a Christian.”  I said, “Yeah.”  He said, “I’m a Christian too I just got saved recently. The Lord showed me that my prayer were working even though I didn’t see the man and somebody else, another laborer in the harvest crossed his path and led him to the Lord.

Sid:  Now let me ask you a bit about your gift of prophecy. How does it usually operate?  Do you hear something, do you see something, is it confirmations there of when you deliver a prophetic word to an individual?

Rob:  Well, I mostly a seer, I see visions, I see symbolic pictures, or you know different types of visions. God will give me symbolism within a vision and it will be interpreted.  But I also hear I really believe that we are spirit beings and just like we have natural ears and natural eyes we have spiritual ears and spiritual eyes and that we can see and hear.  So it does happen mostly with my seeing it, I see like sometimes my Great Aunt Celia said it was like seeing a television screen with your eyes closed and that’s how I would see.

Sid:  And also out of curiosity have, you were shown your life at this encounter have any of the things come to pass yet that you saw?

Rob:  Very much so.

Sid:  Could you tell me one?

Rob:  The Lord showed me that I would be a minister to ministers and at the age of 18 you kind of you can’t really fathom that.  Like my pastor won’t listen to me, I’m 18 you know.  But now that I look at my life twenty something years later just in the last week I’ve ministered to probably over a thousand pastors and preachers.

Sid:  Rob, tell me about this teaching that I believe you told me God said that it was so important that He was going have this teaching go throughout the world called “Breaking the Power of Covetousness.”

Rob:  God spoke to me and He gave me this message and I really do believe that it needs to go around the world.  He spoke to me and said it would so I’m just waiting and watching what takes place.  But there is a wrong spirit in the body of Christ where we believe that it’s okay in the name of prosperity to have covetousness.  Covetousness is like a type of lust or wrong desire. Now God doesn’t have a problem with us having a home or a nice car or you know being blessed, but we have to have our motives pure in our hearts concerning the blessings of God.  Our prosperity message must be pure we cannot have greet, covetousness, or any type of selfishness in us.  We need to be a blessing to those that are around us and part of prosperity is to have abundance to be blessed to have success, and you know deal well with everything that we do, but we can’t have this thing where it’s all mine, I want it, I want it and that hoarding spirit can’t be in us.  We have to be able to be a blessing and if God gave it to us then we should be able to be willing to pass it on.

Sid:  There was quite an experience where you actually broke that power of covetousness over your own life and God told you to give a very large sum of money. tell me about that.

Rob:  Well, a couple of years ago I was staffing and praying and I was going to be go on vacation, but instead my wife and I and my business partner we decided to buy a boat.  We were going to buy a $30,000 boat. As I was praying I felt like the Holy Spirit said, “I want you to give the boat, the amount you were going to buy for the boat, I want you to give it.”  And I said, “Oh, Lord how am I going to do this?”  But as soon as I thought that I said, “You know if I will sow this, if I will give this then I know that the Lord will multiply it and the Lord will bless me because of it.”  And right there I had to choose “Am I going to have my boat as an idol, or am I going to obey the voice of the Holy Spirit?”  And as soon as I did that something broke in my life where I knew that no boat, no car, no house, and no material thing was ever going to influence me in a way where I looked at that more than I looked at trusting in the Lord or the blessing of God upon my life from my giving.

Sid:  What happened to you as a result of your obedience?

Rob:  Well, I gave a $30,000 offering to the Lord. Within a matter of days the favor of God came upon me in such a way that the University of Auckland, in New Zealand, came and approached us and asked us to build a restaurant in the University.  Now the University has 46,000 people, but the government allocated to us ¾ of a million dollars, they gave us ¾ of a million dollars to build this restaurant for free.

Sid:  You know there is such miss understanding on prosperity, and what God means by prosperity, and what God wants for you and it’s such a wonderful plan that God has.  It’s time for you to get in balance.

Sid:  I want that full dwelling place for God, “What about you?”  I’m talking to Bobby Connor who moves in the most marvelous gifts of prophecy.  And Bobby, you said that God is in processes now of restoring mantles of people like A.A. Allen, and William Branham, and Coe, and Kathryn Kuhlman and many others.  Tell me what the Lord is showing you.

Bobby:  Sid, the Lord showed me that He’s going to restore these mantles, but then He showed me something so exciting and it so stirred my heart.  He said “I’m going to restore them not to where they were when they departed, but where they should have been had there been no delay.”  And then He asked me a question, He said, “Do you know why I’m going to do that?”  So instantly I knew I didn’t, and so He said, “Because the hour is so crucial and we’re so needy, so we desperate need this double grace that God wants to offer us.”

Sid:  I feel like if I asked you to push your gift that God has some prophecies for people that are praying to God right now to hear from him.

Bobby:  Yeah, I really do; one of the things I want to do right now Sid is want to prophecy over the business sector.  The Lord has great favor right now on people that have businesses that intend to establish the kingdom of God.  God says I’m going to bring favor that will open doors it’ll be much like what rested on Esther.  Remember when Esther came in before the king and he tipped his scepter and said, “I’ll give you up to half of my kingdom.”  There is some kind of a real favor now for businesses that intend to see the kingdom of God established.  And so doors that prior to this time have not opened, now they’re going to open.  For you didn’t have favor, now you are going to have favor, so I want to encourage the business sector, this is a time of turnaround.  I know people are talking about the economy looks gloomy, this looks bad, but not for the kingdom of God, Deuteronomy 8:18 is still in the Word of God.  It said “That is God that gives you power to get wealth that He may establish His covenants.”  And so I believe that we really release a time of great financial prosperity over the businesses that intend to see the Kingdom of God established.

Sid:  Do that right now.

Bobby:  Yes Lord, I want to thank You, I thank You that you named Yourself El Shaddai the God that’s able to do for us what we’re incapable of doing for ourself.  God I want to thank you that You’re more than enough and I release right now through a prophetic declaration that you will prosper all of those that have it in their heart to see Your Kingdom advance.  And Lord I thank You that You’re going to put such an anointing upon the people of God, it’ll be as the glory of God that rested upon Solomon when the Queen of Sheba said, “I heard about it, but now I’ve seen it and it’s bigger and better than I was ever told.”  So Lord we thank You for that, thank You for that kind of favor upon the people of God.  Lord I want to thank You that make a way where it seems like there’s no way and Lord, I thank You that You said, “When we come through the water and through the flood that You’ll bring us into a wealthy place, a place of Your provision.”  So we bless You God, thank you for hungry desperate hearts, we look to You, You’re more than enough.”  I tell you one of my favorite verses right now Sid is Naham 1:7,  “The Lord is good, and is a very present help in the time of trouble and He know those that are trusting Him.”  Another thing I’d like to really say right now is “I believe there’s a guy name Thomas.”  And Thomas I believe you’re in the Pittsburgh area. I want to tell you something, God is going to put all the missing pieces together for you, and I don’t know what all’s been rearranged in your life but it seems like you got a lot of loose ends and you’ve been trying to put all this together and nothing’s coming together for you.  But I believe God is going to reach out His hand and touch your situation and put this thing together for His glory.  Remember when it says, “All the king’s horses and all the kings men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty together again?”  But I tell you the King’s men can’t, if I’m expecting God to be very very gracious to you and restore some things.

Sid:  Bobby, in your ministry do you see many people physical healed?

Bobby:  Yes, thank the Lord we really do, we see that’s one of the gifts that God has us to operate in is the gift of healing and I’m telling you we’re in a time great displays of healing right now.

Sid:  Can you tell me one particular healing that comes to mind?

Bobby:  People ask me that, they go “What do you think is one of the greatest miracles you’ve seen?”  The one that stirred me more than anything Sid was down in Mexico City, we were in the civic center. I think that there was just thousands of people, some people estimated 70,000 people, I don’t know how many were in there, just a sea of people.  But any way in that service a man brings a little baby girl, I suspect the baby girl was maybe a year and a half old, couldn’t speak English, I sure couldn’t speak Spanish and she was beautiful and she turned and she was in her father’s arms and one side of her face didn’t grow, it didn’t have any skin there, you could see the inside of her mouth, her cheek didn’t develop.  You could see her tongue, there was spittle that drooled out the side of her mouth.  And my heart just sank when I saw this and the dad was praying with his eyes, he was pleading for help.  And so the next thing I said, “Lord what would you do?”  And the next thing happened, I see the little girl, she’s no longer a two year old little girl in her daddy’s arms, she looks like she’s maybe five or six now, but she’s old enough to know that she’s deformed and she’s in a corner in her room.  And then the next time I see her in a trance, she looks like she’s maybe eight to ten and she’s very withdrawn, then I see her when she looks like she’s thirteen or fourteen and she steps out in front of a bus and takes her life.  I said, “Oh God and then the next thing I know I’m back in the civic center and there the little girl is and He says, “Stick your thumb in her face.”   So I took my thumb and I stuck it in the hole where her face didn’t develop and I ran my thumb across her face and Sid God grew that little baby a face right there.  Skin grew right where my thumb ran and then the Lord asked me said, “Do you know why I heal this baby?”  I said, “No, I don’t, He said, “Because I’m a good God.”

Sid:  Well, there are people that desperately want to be healed right now that are listening to us and they are saying “I want my good God to do this for me too.”  Would you pray for them, and maybe even kick into the prophetic as you’re praying.

Bobby:  Yes, we sure will.  “Lord Jesus I want to thank You that You want everyone well, You said “Don’t forget all Your benefits, You forgive all Your iniquities and You heal all of our diseases.”  Lord you said in your word, “Is anything too difficult for Me?”  Lord there’s nothing too hard for You, I want to thank You that You raise up the paralytic, You healed those that are crippled and blind.  Lord what You did then You do now and we thank You Jesus because You’re the same yesterday, today and forever. We’re calling out to You today and Lord I pray for people that have kind of a crippling disease, I rebuke crippling in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Lord and we just release healing now, we command people to bet up out of wheelchairs, I bind arthritis, and all things that come to crippled people. Lord I’m asking You to raise up the paraplegic Lord, those that have broken necks, Lord those that have been diagnosed, “You’ll never get out of this wheelchair,” Lord send Your word, raise them up, give them strength now, may their feet, their ankle bones receive strength, they’re not as far gone as the guy out of the book of Acts.  He as forty years old, never taken a step from his mother’s womb and you came and great miracles happened.  So Lord we’re asking You to do that today, Lord touch the people, I pray for blind eyes, to open, Lord I pray for a girl named Linda.  I command blindness to go off of you.  I command your eyes to function, I rebuke every disease off of your eyes and we command your eyes to see clearly now.  Lord I ask for Linda that she would see clearly right now.  I bind up blinding spirit, I bind a deaf and dumb spirit off of people, Lord open their ears, open their mouth that they might speak boldly your Word, have Your way King Jesus.  Let Your Kingdom come swiftly to this earth, Lord I pray that You would receive the glory due Your name, I pray that You receive all that You paid for Jesus.  Touch the people now, Lord we thank You that You can do anything, nothing is too hard for you.  I pray for arms to grow out, for legs to grow out, for creative body parts to happen Lord.  I ask for this now, I’m asking You to restore, Lord I hold You to Your promise in Joel 25, You said, “I will restore, so Lord restore back everything that the enemy has tried to steal now in Jesus mighty name.”

Sid:  What about Israel, has God shown you anything about Israel?

Bobby:  Well, I’ll tell you what, I went to Israel to do a prophetic conference last year, a year ago, and an angel came back with me.  Came back it was the strangest thing, listen God’s got great plans for Israel and I’ll tell you what He’s doing right now, I believe He’s stirring up the Body of Christ to get us to the place that were supposed to be so we can actually provoke Israel to Godly jealousy.  But I’m telling you that there’s a marvelous move of God.  There’s a hunger in these Israeli people for the prophetic. I’ll tell you about what happened to me in the airport.  I’m there in Israel and we’d just done a prophetic conference and we’re about to fly out.  I’m probably seventy people in a line and the Holy Spirit said, “Prepare yourself.”  And about an Israeli officer came walking down the line of people and came to me and said, “Could I see your papers?”  I gave him my papers and he said, “Come go with me”  We go all the way up to the front of the line, there’s some more maybe five or six other military people, they said, “Come go with us.”  We go down a hall into a room and in that room there’s maybe seven others so there’s maybe twelve Israeli military people in there and there’s what I think is a supervisor standing over against the corner, he’s about almost 6’5” and very handsome looking fellow so I thought to myself, he must be supervising these people.  So I go over there and they’re interviewing me, the first question to me was this, these are military people in Israel inside the airport.  They said, “So, you’re a prophet?”  That’s what they said to me, and I said, “I’ve never identified myself to you guys as that. They turned the computer monitor around there was my picture and it had in red letters prophet and the next question was this, so God talks to you?  And I said, “Yes, He does.”  They said, “Why haven’t you told our rabbis” I said “because they’re not ready to listen yet.”  And then they asked me, for about an hour and forty minutes questions concerning end times, questions concerning what the Bible has to say about different things and then finally at the end of this time, I though man I’m going to miss my plane, that’s what I thought and they man who I thought was their supervisor walked away from the wall, walked over to me and said, with a very confident smile, “Job well done,” talking to me.  And when he said that the guys folded up my papers, gave them to me and said, “Come on will get you on the plane.”  And I thought boy now, that is something and so then I flew all the way back and I don’t fly into Charlotte I fly into Toronto and did a meeting in Toronto and then I stayed over with my wife and I to Hamilton Ontario to do a meeting.  And so after the meeting on Sunday they drive me to a place to eat and so help me when they were paying the bill at this place to eat, and I look over there in the corner and there was the same man that I’d seen in the Israeli airport.  So I get in the van, and I thought man, that’s going on I know that’s the same person so my wife said “Bobby, what wrong?”  I said, “Pull the van back up, so they pull the van up and I get out of the van, walk into this Italian eating place that we just came out of, I walk right up to the man and he said to me when I walked up to him, and he said to me, “Do you know my name?”  And I said “No, I don’t.”  And he said it in Hebrew now I wish I could pronounce it, but he said it in a very thick Hebrew word, and then he said to me, “Do you know that that mean?  And I said, “No I don’t and he said, “Watcher.”  That’s what he said, and then he disappeared.”

Sid:  Before your eyes he disappeared?

Bobby: Just like that!

Sid:  My guest Bobby Connor is a prophet and he has learned to hear God’s voice, he has learned to walk in the anointing of God.  And something I started a couple days ago, and we never got too far with it Bobby, I always like to see track record if you will.  What has God told you that you have publically stated that has come to pass.  You talked about that has come to pass, you talked about President Bush.  Tell me some other things.

Bobby:  Okay, one was we were in Oklahoma City and the Lord spoke to me about a tornado coming and it was the strangest thing. I was flying out of Portland, Oregon down to Oklahoma City and a pastor friend was with us and a man by the name of Denny Cline.  And as we got on the plane to fly to Oklahoma City the pilot comes on the intercom and says, “Well, you’ve chosen a very great day to fly, no storms in the region.  So that was great so we flew down from Portland down to Oklahoma City and we land and the pilot comes back on the intercom and says as we’re taxing to the terminal well I hit that on the head no storms in the region.  And so that was good, we go down to the baggage claim, and just the very moment the baggage claim light came on, a little warning light and it started spinning around the Lord spoke to me and said, “Spinning winds.”  Now any time He tells me that, that’s a sign of a tornado and so I turn to Denny and I said, “Boy, it’ll be a miracle if we get out of here without a tornado.”  And when I said that one of the ladies on the plane she said, “Didn’t you hear the pilot, no storms in the region.”  And I looked at the conveyor belt spinning again and the Lord said, “Spinning winds.”  We go straight from that airport terminal to the church, a Vineyard Church there in Oklahoma City, and we’re there and the crowds there and all of a sudden I’m over there in the side room getting ready to minister and the Lord said, “I’m going to send a tornado to this place, blow this building away, hurt some people and I’ll hold you accountable if you don’t get up and rebuke it.”  I said Lord, “I’m going to need a verse for that.”  And I turned in my Bible so help me Sid and turned to Ezekiel 37 where it says, “Son of man get up and prophecy to the winds.”  So they saw the tornadoes coming on the smart phone the Doppler radar and so we get up and we rebuke this tornado and it’s on the world weather channel right now.  The tornado comes down to the ground, when the church rebuked this thing it stopped in midair, reversed its rotation and went back up into the air.

Sid:  Now is that unusual that sounds unusual to me.

Bobby:  It did not, it had happened one other time in record history 100 years prior to that, that’s what the weather channel said.

Sid:  My goodness the faith level must have been so accelerated when that group saw that.

Bobby:  It really is important that we hear God’s voice and follow what He says to do.  Another thing that happened to me once that can be documented was I was in Knoxville, Tennessee in August once, and it was 102 degrees Fahrenheit. I’m sitting on the front getting ready to minister and that’s when 98 wild fires were burning up in the Northwest.  Remember we were spending 1 million four hundred-thousand dollars a day tax money trying to put the fires out.  They had the military in trying to put them out.  Ninety-eight wild fires were burning, and the Lord said to me while I’m sitting on that seat in Knoxville and said, “Hey Bobby how long are you going to let those wild fires burn?”  I said God, “I didn’t know I was responsible.”  He said, “Who do you think He is?”  Remember the verse it says “The heavens of the heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth, He’s given it to the hands of men.”

Sid:  Yes.

Bobby:  So then I got a very strange feeling and I said, “What do you want God?”  He said, “I want you to get up and prophesy that I’m going to send you to the Northwest, you are going to prophecy snow storm and I’ll send a snowstorm and put the fires out.”  I said, “God are you sure?”  He said, “More than you are get up and do what you’re told.”  So I get up and prophesy in front of the people and then I try to buy a ticket from Charlotte, North Carolina up to Missoula, Montana, but they wouldn’t sell one because that’s where the fire base was.  So they sold me a ticket to a nearby town, and a pastor picked me up and was driving me.  Now this sounds weird but it’s the absolute truth, he said, he’s driving me to this Missoula and I’m over there just a passenger and I’m praying and the Lord said, “I’m going to give you a confirmation that your ministry will be successful.”  I said Lord, “What verse.”  He said “Not a verse it’s just going to be in the third cookie in a Chinese eating place, but you’ll have to tell the preacher.”   I thought oh Lord, so I told the brother the mission were on is going to be successful.  And he said, “What verse?”  I said, it’s not going to be a verse, it’s in the third cookie in a Chinese eating place.”  All man Sid, I could feel a wall go up between us and he said, “You know that’s the strangest thing, right down the road is one of my favorite eating places.”  I said yes, it’s a Chinese place, he said yeah he said, “That’s where we were going to stop at.”  “Yes, we’re going to stop there and at the end of the meal the little lady will bring us a plastic tray, on the tray will be two cookies, I’ll ask her for third cookie in her pouch, and the confirmation will be in there.”  So sure enough we go there and eat and the little lady brings the cookies and I ask her for the third one.” I said, “Ma’am could I have third cookie you have in your pouch, she said, “Oh yes I do have one.”  I said, “Yes Ma’am.”  And Sid I push those other two cookies aside, broke the cellophane off this one and pulled out the little piece of paper in there and here’s what it said.”  It says, “God not only will listen to your prayers, but will make them come true.”

Sid:  My goodness.

Bobby:  We go to the mountain and prophesy, the next morning the Missoula, Montana headlines were, “Surprise snowstorms, fires extinguished, job well done and it showed the fireman coming off the mountain.”

Sid:  Now, just out of curiosity you hear these good things to do like stopping fires and things like that.  Do you ever know negative things about people, does God show you, and what do you do about it?

Bobby:  Yeah, a lot of times if you see negative things about leaders or about people, the main thing to do is pray for them really, intercede that God will bring His destiny not the plans of the enemy.  Then if you got a bridge, a real bridge of fellowship with them and maybe camaraderie   or confidence you might share with them in a very private setting and say “Well sir I feel like God is showing me something.”  And then if says, “Oh Bobby, share whatever God’s showing you.”  Then you might be able to approach it a very…cause see all prophesy is suppose to edify, strengthen and encourage, and then sometimes if they give you the opening you can share with them where God will have an opportunity to change their life and get them back into the straight and the narrow ways etcetera.  In our meetings we don’t allow anybody something negative over somebody’s life in a public meeting.  1 Corinthians says that when you prophesy in a public meeting it should edify, strengthen or encourage.

Sid:  Tell me about the check for $7,227.17.

Bobby:  Yeah, I was in a meeting saw just like a vision, I saw somebody was going to get a check for this money.  And then I said it and nobody moved.  And I thought Lord, “Somebody should have claimed that.”  And so I said, “Lord what else and He said, they think the person that mailed the check thinks they already mailed it, but it’s actually between the front seat of their car and the console and it slipped down between that so I added that information to it.”  I said now, “Somebody is going to get this check and they think they already mailed it”…and so several months later I go back to the same city and woman comes with a stub, showed me the stub.  She said “Your not going to believe this, she said a man that I use to work for in real estate was going to trade his Cadillac in Escalade or whatever, and he carried it to have it detailed and as they were detailing it they found between the front seat and the console that check.”  And so that’s amazing what, and so she got her money and it was just like the Lord said.  So I like things like that don’t you?

Sid:  I’m sure, tell me about the macaroni.

Bobby:  One time I was in a meeting and there was a couple there and you could tell there as a little bit of strain going on between them and I looked at the man and I said, they were there and I said, “The Lord doesn’t care if the macaroni is a little bit dry.”  And oh man the wife just began to cry and it shook him up.  But before they came to church she was in a real hurry and she had made a supper out of macaroni and it got too dry and he had had a big fit and they had had a fuss over macaroni.  But the Lord wasn’t concerned about that at all, isn’t it good that God knows everything about us.

Sid:   I think the gift that God has given you is so amazing, what about the lady who picked the fathers from the duck?

Bobby:  We’re in a big coliseum Sid and I mean there’s thousands of people in there, and boy the prophetic was really sharp God was calling out people’s names etcetera like that.  And I look out across the crowd and there’s a little grey headed lady out there and she was so precious.  I was so excited, the Lord said, “I’m going to give her a word that will make her life have meaning and purpose.”  And I knew it was God so I had her stand us and I said, “Ma’am God’s going to give you this word, it’s going to make your whole life have meaning and purpose.”  And I was really excited, and so I said “Ma’am, please stand out in the aisle.”  So she stands out in the aisle, I get off the platform and I go running out there to her and I say, “Now Honey this word is going to make your whole life have meaning and purpose.”  The closer I got her, you’ve seen them, she’s a real small silver haired and she was beautiful and twinkling eyes and I get to her and I say to her again, “This word will give your whole life meaning and purpose.”  And about that time what I was doing I was waiting for God to give me the word, then Here’s what He said, “Look right at her and say to her yes honey, I saw you picking that duck.”  And I thought “No God, I need a word that’s going to make her whole life have meaning and purpose.”  He said, “That the only word to tell her.”  And now I’m almost apologetic because there’s all these thousands of people watching us.  And I say well Ma’am, “I’m so sorry the only real word that I have for you is “Yes, Honey I saw you picking that duck.”  When I said that Sid, she fell over in floor just absolutely euphoric laughing, crying, sobbing and I said, “Get her up.”  So they picked up the dear little woman and I said, “What is it, what’s the deal?  She said, “Oh what you don’t understand when I was a young woman the war was going on, the only job I could get was working for the government and I was out on a dock and my job was pulling feathers off of a ducks breast for the down for the cloths for the military men.  And she said, “I cried out in a moment of desperation, “Oh God do you even know where I’m at.”  And then all the years the years of her life cascaded down to that moment in a civic center when somebody said to her, “Yes “Honey I saw you picking that duck.”  Isn’t that amazing?

Sid:  My guest by way of telephone is Bobby Connor; I’m talking to him at his home in Moravian Falls, North Carolina.  And Bobby any time I talk to someone from Moravian Falls I know that they are moving in the supernatural.  I hear so many stories about people seeing or having visitations from angels from Moravian Falls. I was reading in my notes about the time that you had a visitation of fourteen angels.

Bobby:  Yes.

Sid:  Tell me about that.

Bobby:  Okay, a man built a cabin here, I man asked my wife several years ago, “Do you think if I built a little cabin Bobby would come stay here some?”  So, she said, “I don’t know ask him.”  So finally I told him yes I would.  So there was no buildings up in here at that time so there was a little old creek running and beautiful little place.  So the man built a cabin, a little bitty small cabin and so we’re dedicating this cabin after he got it built so we’re praying and it’s around 9:00 at night and as I’m praying loud footsteps began to sound inside the cabin.  There’s only two of us there and neither one of us are moving. This man squeezed my hand real real tight and he said, I got to leave hadn’t I.  And I said, “Yes.”  And so he left and then I hear a noise out on the porch of this cabin and Sid I walked out there and there was fourteen to eighteen angels.  And they were dressed like pilgrims.  Now I’ll tell you why they were dressed…

Sid:  But wait a second, just out of curiosity had you had numerous angelic visitations before that or was this a first?

Bobby:  No, I had angel visitations before that.

Sid:  Okay.

Bobby:  So these angels were dressed like pilgrims because the Moravians had stationed them way back in the 1700’s when the Moravians’ had come through here, Zinzendorf that group.  And so the first question the angels asked me was this, “What took you so long?”  You know they were talking about picking up the mantle and coming to the land and occupying the land.  And so I stayed out on the porch, now this sounds crazy but it’s the truth, and I just fellowshipped and played with these angels.  They would jump off the porch, they would jump back on the porch, they were swinging in the porch swing, they’d swing around the post on the porch.  Now I’m actually awake I’m you know actual angels and then all of a sudden after about forty-five minutes one group got kind of quiet and I looked and they vanished.  And I looked and the other group vanished and then so it’s about 10:00 or 10:15 at night so I walked back in the cabin and I’m setting there on the couch watching the fireplace burning, and I’m kind of chewing myself out I thought, wow, I shouldn’t have played around I should have inquired of the Lord and something like that.  And Sid about that time a heavy knock came on the door real hard.  Now remember we’re up in the isolated mountain in a cabin no houses is a round.  Whop,whop the knock came, startled me my heart jumped up in my throat and I said, “Come in” and a voice said in a “No, you must come out.”   And Sid I go to the door, open the door and there stands Jesus Christ, not a vision, I’m talking about Jesus standing there at the door of the cabin and He had a bottle in His hand which appeared to me that looked like a Champaign bottle and here’s what He said to me, “He said, “We’re going to have a Christening service, but you don’t know anything about christening that’s what He said and then walked right passed me, didn’t stop in the living room where the fireplace was, went straight to the bedroom and before in just a flash He took the bottle struck the wall with it and the bottle shattered and an oil began to run down the wall.  Now watch this, I thought it, I didn’t say it, I thought it, I thought “Oh, my how am I going to explain the man that built the cabin the first night something has happened to his wall.  The moment I thought this the Lord Jesus rebuked me, he said to me, He said, “You never have to attempt to apologize for what I do or explain what I do.”  Then He said, “Look, He had me look at the wall and oil that was running down the wall in this cabin had been turned into a map of the world.”  “Have you seen a war room where the map is laid out straight, you can see all the continents at one time?”

Sid:  Yes.

Bobby:  That’s the way this was Sid then the Lord took His finger and would point at the map and where He would point would light up and He said, “You can only target what I target or you’ll become a target.”  And He stayed with me all most all night, every hair on my body stood up like I’d been electrocuted and it was the strangest thing.  My wife was in Texas praying, “Oh God give Bobby a visitation, I’m in Moravian Falls praying, “Oh God don’t kill Bobby.”  I’m telling you for weeks my hair, every hair on my body stood out like electricity.

Sid:  My goodness, now the places that He was pointing on the map. What was going to happen at these places?

Bobby:  He just told me that you can only target what I target or you’ll become a target.  When He would touch those places He would show me some of the things that He’s going to do, some of the events that’s going to take place there good and bad.  I’ll throw this one in, one of the place that He pointed at was Kiev in the Ukraine.

Sid:  Yes.

Bobby:  And hear what He said about Kiev He said, “The largest revival in the history of mankind will spring from Kiev and it’s going to start in Kiev and run down to Russia.”  And He said, “It will mainly erupt in Russia with youth, and then He said, “Watch this.”  And He showed me like a, do you remember in the old western movies they would light up a powder keg?  They would light a fuse, remember?

Sid:  Sure.

Bobby:  That’s what happened, He lit what looked like a fuse and I saw a foot run up and try to stamp it out, which was orthodox religion and they couldn’t stamp it out.  And then I saw another foot running and tried to kick dust on it and that was the mafia, but they couldn’t stamp it out.

Sid:  It’s interesting whenever I go to Russia or Ukraine especially in Ukraine especially in areas like Odessa and Kiev where I’ve ministered, but especially Odessa where every other person has Jewish ancestry, which is amazing, it’s like an open heaven there.

Bobby:  Can I tell you what happened to me here in Moravian Falls?  When we came up here to live I go to a certain place, it’s a certain big rock and I’m setting there looking out over the land and I’m just praying, but I’m not really fervently praying, I’m waiting.

Sid:    Right.

Bobby:  And Sid the Lord Jesus Christ came and sat right down at my right and here’s what He said to me.  He said, “I’ve called you to this land to redeem it for its original purposes.  I said, “What is that?”  He said, “It’s the salvation of the native American and the protection of the Jews, get under this rock.”  That’s exactly what He told me.  And there’s a rock a great big rock the size of a big room in a house.  And then He said, “Get under this rock” and I protested, I said, “Lord, I can’t get under this rock.”  He said, “Get under this rock” and I looked and there was a lip and a clef under this rock.  So I climbed under the rock and as I’m pushing with my hand to keep from falling a rock fell off in my hand about the size of a dinner plate.  And He said, “What’s that in your hand?”  And I said, “Why” and I looked at it and it’s a perfect cut out of the state of North Carolina.  And so I showed it to Rick Joyner, he said, “Keep that its a sign.”  But the Lord told me, He said, I’m calling you here to this land for its original purpose, the salvation of the native Americans and the protection of the Jews.  Isn’t that strange?

Sid:  I have heard that about that particular land before, now when the Lord visited you He talked about it’s time for you to take up your mantle.  What is your mantle?

Bobby:  I’ll tell you our mantle I believe is really just being a prophet to the nations and just trying to show people the Lord does speak to them.  John 10:3 says “My sheep hear my voice,” John 10:27 says “and they will follow me and another voice they will not follow.”  So I believe we need to train the people of God to clearly and concisely hear the voice of God.

Sid:  … “God’s Supernatural Power” about walking in the anointing, most people don’t even have a clue what that terminology means.  What does that mean?

 Bobby:    It means doing the works that Jesus Christ did through the same power that Jesus Christ did through while He was walking here on earth.  It’s the power of the Holy Spirit.  And one of the verses we use in our new book is Psalms 92:10 “I shall be anointed with fresh oil, this fresh oil anointing will release my strength like that of a wild ox.”  And we need anointing; if we study the Bible in the New Testament Jesus did no mighty miracles until He was filled with the Holy Ghost.  Acts 10:38 tell us God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power.  And so that’s what we got to have we got to have that anointing and the power of God.

Sid:  Now I’d say the number one thing in addition to that though, but the number one thing is what you said just previous and that is hearing God’s voice.  Is it just becoming aware or is there something else we can do to hear His voice clearer?

Bobby:  I tell them, intimacy.  Nothing will intensify hearing like intimacy.  My wife and I have been married over forty-three years.  If she called me and I go “Who is this, woo we’re in trouble.”  But see I should be able to tell whether she’s happy or sad just by the inflection of her voice.  And so that’s what we’ve got to do; we got to become very and very intimate with the voice of God.

Sid:  Tell me some practical things we can do to accelerate this.

Bobby:  Number one we’ve lost the real art of getting still before the Lord, Psalm 46:10 & 11 says “Be still and know.”  And we’re in a very fast pace world and this world tries to get us so busy so we don’t have that time of meditating upon the Lord waiting before Him.  And so we need to learn how to shut the world out.  Remember it says, Jesus said when you pray inter into your closet.  Now we can’t spend time, 24 hours a day in a closet, but we need to learn how in a fast pace world how to get alone with God, to shut the world out and put our focus on the Lord.  And one of the ways to do that is the Word of God and getting still.  I like to listen to real soft praise music, you know there’s terms out there about soaking and marinating and stuff like that.  But I believe it’s good to be still and just wait before the Lord.

Sid:  Did God show you anything about these radio shows that we’re doing right now?

Bobby:  I’ll tell you what we’ve got to do, God is going to initiate a hunger in the hearts of the people.  But God’s going to start releasing prophetic words to people.  Here’s what I saw, I see right now there’s a woman listening.  Her name is Ruth, her last name starts with an L.  But she’s got a wayward daughter; Ruth has a wayward daughter that has been away from home and away from the teachings of the family and away from the things that she was trained in, but God going to bring her back.  And she goes by Nicole now, I don’t think that’s her real name, I thinks it’s almost like a nickname that she’s picked up for herself.  But I want to encourage Ruth that her daughters going to come home.  Her daughter will be back home and it’s going to be a wonderful time.  I see the month, by November, by this coming November Ruth’s daughter will be back home and it will be as though she never really broke fellowship with the home.  So I’m very excited about that.

Sid:  Now are you hearing what you’re saying or are you seeing a vision, what’s going on?

Bobby:  Okay, while I was talking to you a moment ago when I said that Jesus came and sat on the rock, and then I saw this woman named Ruth, and I saw that she’s been praying, she is listening to the program.  She’s been praying for her daughter.

Sid:  You saw this like in a vision or you actually?

Bobby:  I really did, I just saw it up in the airs is what I would call it because we’re doing this interview from the home in Moravian Falls and I can see my office and I can see the house hear.

Sid:  I’ve been so excited all this week about this end-time mentoring tool that we’re making available by Mike Shreve, it’s called “God’s Promises for Your Children.”  Now Mike is living a prophetic life because Mike has had to have miracle after miracle after miracle.  Number one, they weren’t even supposed to be able to have children, and then their two children both of them, there was attempts on their life before they even were born.  Your daughter was supposed to have spinal bifida, your son should have had brain damage and as a matter of fact the spinal bifida would have stopped your daughter from being able to dance.  She’s a dancer today; being deprived of oxygen with your son that should have made him very slow mentally and how bright is your son right now Mike Shreve?

Mike:  Well, he’s pretty much a straight “A” student and he’s got almost a photographic memory.

Sid:    So what the devil meant for evil by praying these promises…and what about your son had a physical problem he was a toe walker.

Mike:  Yes, I had never heard of that until it happened for him, he never walked on his heals he tip toed continuously. For about seven years we prayed but we didn’t really war over the situation as I believe we need to. Finally I resorted to possibility of a surgeon taking care of it and we went to a large hospital in a major city and the doctor said, “He would have to clip the tendons in the back of his foot and it may make him worse off and he may end up in a wheelchair.  And while he was talking to me I heard the voice of the Lord speak to my spirit and He said, “Get out of here and don’t ever come back.”  And so I left that hospital knowing that the only answer was the supernatural one, just a little after that I was in a conference with a number of other ministers and we brought my son up and warred over him and intercession and sought God and claimed the promise.  And incidentally there’s a promise in Psalm 91 where God said “No evil shall be fall thee, neither shall any plague come neigh your dwelling and that includes your children that are in that dwelling with you.”  And I said “Well, Lord we’re supposed to be free from sickness and disease and infirmity,” You said “No plague will come neigh your dwelling” and we prayed probably ten, fifteen minutes over him passionately.   Well, the next day he was flat footed and has never walked on his toes since, it was absolutely a miracle, God lengthened his tendons immediately be the power of prayer.”

Sid:  You know that when your son was just four years of age he had a heavenly visitation and he was told by the Lord not to watch bad TV, why is that so important not to watch bad TV?

Mike:  I believe it’s because that’s how the enemy is transferring spirits into children’s lives.  You know for instance one of the biggest plagues of our generation is the increase of sexual perversity. What happens is that they see these Hollywood stars that are cast in roles where they are in a situation of indulging in sexual perversity.  Maybe not blatantly in a program that children would normally watch.  But sometimes subtly and by even laughing with comedy characters that are putting on like they’re sexually perverse it opens the door to accepting that kind of lifestyle and it just transfer that spirit right into a child’s life or mind they wonder why they get wooed that direction, it was opened up to them through the television and that’s just one example of many.

Sid:  And why is it so important not to speak even if it’s true, a negativity, about your children or grandchildren?

Mike:  Well, the old word is WYSIWYG, is What You Say Is What You Get, life and death are in the power of the tongue. One of the most powerful promises given for our children, and there are 65 specific promises God’s given the children of His people is found in Deuteronomy 30 verses 19 & 20.  This was where God was rehearsing in the minds of the children of Israel the importance of making a choice between the blessing or the curse being passed down through the family line.  And He said, “I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you that I have set for you life and death, blessing and cursing therefore choose life that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the Lord your God that you may obey His voice, that you may cling to Him for He is Your life and the length of your days.”  Well the key thought there is where God says, “Choose life that both you and your descendant’s may live.”  What does that mean to choose life?  Well, God is talking more than just physical life, He’s talking about the things that give us a spiritual well being or mental well being as well.  There’s things that feel death to us emotionally and mentally; like for instance hatred, anger.  The Bible says that if we hate our brother we abide in death, it has a debt dealing impact on the soul, it deadens our inner being with attitudes that carry us away from God, depression, discouragement, fear etcetera.   And God is say, “it’s up to you to choose life”, and when you say “I choose life” you’re in essence saying “I choose all the life giving attributes of God that fill the heart, that fill the mind with life giving influence.  I choose joy, I choose peace, I choose victory”, that’s what you’re saying when you say “I choose life.”  I choose the character of God, I choose the nature of God and that’s your way of passing down that blessing to your offspring when you say “I speak over my son, I speak over my daughter and I choose life for our family.”  Then that covers every arena of life.

Sid:  Now explain to me this end time tool that you’ve just, it’s literally just off the press, “God’s Promises for Your Children.”  You know I have to be candid with you when I first saw the book I thought oh it’s another book on prayer, we know we’re supposed to pray, but no it isn’t this is so practical, explain.

Mike: Well, this generation is under attack, this generation is so much a part of God’s plan, I believe this is the final generation that will see the compilation of many prophecies and I believe this is the generation that will see the Lord Jesus Christ return.  And one of the promises that God gave at the beginning of the new covenant era, Peter preached about it when he stood up on the day of Pentecost he said, “This is that which was spoken of by the Prophet Joel in the last days says God I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh”, and then here it is He said, “Your sons and daughters will prophecy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams.”  Well that was the beginning of that era of time called the last days.  Well, we are in the last of the last days. So this is going to intensify even more and it’s a time when God I believe is intending to raise up our sons and daughters as the prophetic voices that will bring in that last harvest that we’re going to see right before the coming of the Messiah.  And so it’s all the more important to take these 65 promises and pray them over your sons and your daughters that this final determination of God will take place.  I believe that it’s in our hands, we can either sit by idly, and watch the enemy take over the lives of our children, or we can say “That’s enough, enough, enough, it’s enough, I’m praying these promises into their lives and watch God watch over His word to perform it.”