SANDRA:Now you know as good as I do we all act like idiots sometimes. And yet I, I could not convince you if I tried to, I could not convince you that you were not saved or not going to heaven. And yet if I asked you to prove it to me for… I could look at a lot of you now and say oh, I’m not sure, real sure. I could follow you around and I say oh, I’m not real sure or I could hear your language and I might say whoa, I’m not real sure. But yet you believe you’re going to heaven. Based on what? The word of God! You found it in the Book, right? That if you did what He said do and that He’s faithful to His word, you ask Him in your heart so you believe that you, He’s going to be faithful to you. How many of you been to heaven? Well I just wondered. Hallelujah! You know, but we’re all expecting to go. Right?
AUDIENCE:Right! Yeah!
SANDRA:We’re all expecting to go. How many of you believe you got some real estate up there?
AUCIENCE:YES!
SANDRA:We all believe it! How many of you seen it? But you see what I’m talking, what I’m talking about. But you believe it. You believe it. Based on what? This precious, wonderful, glorious Book called the Bible! We found it in the Book and we believe it. And yet again we may, might act like fools some days and you still believe you’re going to heaven?
AUDIENCE:Yes! Right.
SANDRA:All right, I’m fixing to trap ya. Are you ready?
AUDIENCE:Yeah. Yes, ma’am.
SANDRA:Good Southern word: “How come?” Why do you think just because your body tells you that you are not healed, why do you believe the body over the Bible?
And that is something that we need to regard is what you think is insignificant is so massive in God’s eyes. Your life is significant. Your, your destiny call is significant. Your potential is significant. And you can create with God His glory in the earth. I believe in the area of, of, um, anti-trafficking, I believe that we the body of Jesus can actually annihilate completely modern day slavery in our lifetime. I believe that we can do it!
And I’m decreeing it. I’m decreeing it. And I’m, I’m doing actions towards that. I’m writing papers on it. I’m doing, you know, um, media on it. I’m building media on it. We’re doing things on the ground to literally rescue children. It just started with one little vision. It keeps growing and growing. But you see if everyone did something that all connects together and we’ll, we’ll create a tipping point where it’s all going to come down.
There’s people today going into the Body and saying let’s raise up a standard of righteousness. Because you know what? If we could, um, through our prayer and decree take out internet pornography addiction then we could wipe out the sex trade pretty easily because that’s what fuels it, you know? It’s just going to be easy when we get a hold of God and when we have faith to know that we walk in partnership with Him.
Many people say, “Oh, the earth is so full of terrible things.” In fact I had someone Facebook me about a week ago and they said you know, um, “It’s just disgusting, you know what kind of God do you serve when there’s so much suffering in the earth and there’s little children suffering and everything?” And it just hurt me to think people would think that way about my God.
Because my God is good. And it’s not God that is leaving the earth in the mess it’s in. It is us! The scripture says “The heavens belong to the Lord but the earth belongs to the sons of men.” And He gave us His authority. He said “All authority belongs to Him. He is in us.” And He says “Now you’re My Body in the earth and the works that I do you will do also and greater works than these will you do because I go to the Father.” But He left us in the earth with His name, with His power, with the tools in scripture given to us to work and labor, co-labor with Him for the glory of the Lord. And I declare in Jesus’ name that the knowledge of the glory of the Lord is going to cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.
WARREN: Same thing there. I didn’t feel the presence of God. I didn’t feel the glory. I didn’t feel that thing. So I’m saying, “Where are you God?” So I go to school, visual arts for film, to study film, motion picture, and all the people there they’re using drugs. And one guy says, “You
know what? This could open a way for you to really see God.” Well, you see the devil knows the trigger to try to pull us away. So I started using LSD, all kinds of drugs. Meanwhile, I graduate. I wind up on Madison Avenue. I’m doing all these high price TV spots, nationally, crazy stuff.
WARREN: But I was not fulfilled. So I’m sitting in my apartment, 21 years old, and I’m smoking marijuana. And I said, “Oh God of Israel, I can’t take this anymore. I can’t live this way anymore.” I said, “If Jesus is truly who these Christian friends of mine are saying, that He is the promised Jewish Messiah, if He is your Son, the Son of God, then I want Him in my heart. But if He’s not, I don’t want to have anything to do with Him.” You know what happened? The same glory that was in my dream, the same glory presence of God and the supernatural power of God, came into my apartment.
WARREN: Then, I was being filled with that. And what happened was I started saying, “I don’t need this marijuana anymore.” I threw a whole thing of marijuana down the toilet. I just flushed it down. There was alcohol. I just started dumping alcoholic beverages. Nobody was preaching to me and telling me, you need to do this. The holiness of God, the holiness of God was there. And then I started cracking, breaking records. My Catholic wife comes home, she said, “What are you doing?” I said, “Jesus is in the house. God’s glory is here.”
SID: Dale, you say identity is supernatural. What do you mean?
DALE: Well, David was overlooked by his father, that’s the natural, yet chosen by God, that’s the supernatural, but David didn’t know it until there was a supernatural event where Samuel poured oil over his head and changed the way he thought about his future.
SID: And this has to do with identity shift.
DALE: And identity purpose. It’s very important that we understand that there are many identity shifts in each person’s life. I started off as a youth leader, a worship leader, then I was an elder, then I was actually a pastor. And Bishop Bill Hamon looked at me and said, “You think you’re a pastor that prophesies but God says you’re a prophet who pastors.” And God just turned my… He took off my baseball cap of pastor, he put on a prophet mantle, and I started acting as a prophet who happened to pastor, and that’s where I had my greatest fruit.
SID: Now, look, you had the gift of prophecy, you knew you were a prophet, so you never had any doubt about your destiny.
DALE: No, I was prophesying for years and I really did not have the identity of a prophet. I saw it as a gift. And then I saw myself as a prophet, and I would say this, “I’m a prophet but not to the nations.” And one time I heard God’s voice and He said, “Will you stop saying that?”
DALE: Two years later I was in Burma, there was a pastor there, I took a ring off my finger and I put it on his, and I said, “I call you as a Joseph to your nation.” He told me the testimony, he laughed, but after I left a tsunami went through Burma and Myanmar and actually wiped out the nation. It was very destructive. And in it, he remembered the word, not one of his 8,000 members died, he said, “I ought do something for the community.” This is before social media. And it got out somehow what he was doing and over the next six months millions of dollars came to him to get food, and they actually opened up Buddhist temples for him to feed the people. And the Buddhists came to them and said, “If it would have been the Christians, we wouldn’t have helped you. Why are you helping us?” He said, “I never thought I’d be Joseph but what you prophesied come to pass.”
KEVIN: So my mentor told me, Kevin, I believe this is the Lord and when the time is right God will open up the door for you. In fact two years later God opened up the door for me and I travelled to Kansas City and I actually met the pastor of that church in Pasadena California, hallelujah, a year later, and what has ended up happening was by the unction of the Holy Spirit I realized that the revelation and the interpretation was right but I needed to wait on the implementation of what I had got from angelic ministry. And so it took 4 years and after 4 years God opened up the door for me to move to Kansas City and I submitted to the authority of Christ Triumphant Church. Pastor Alan and Pastor Carol Koch, wonderful, spirit-filled pastors in the Kansas City area. In fact they’re still my pastors, hallelujah, 11 years later. Can somebody give God a handclap of praise for that?
AUDIENCE:(CLAPPING)KEVIN: The point is to enter into this dynamic of God’s kingdom you must be accountable to a spiritual authority. We want to have revelation, what you get from an angelic encounter. The interpretation, hallelujah, which is the course of action you’re to take. And sometimes it’s not immediate. And then there is the implementation which is what you do with the revelation that you get. When to do it. Where to do it. How to do it. Hallelujah. So God gives you wisdom in these things. Now let me say this to you. If God opens up your eyes to begin to see into the spiritual dimension or the heavenly places to see God’s angels He has a purpose for it. And His purpose for it is for you to re-create the Lord Jesus Christ in your sphere of influence. And some people get very excited when God opens up their eyes to see angels but that’s very elementary in the kingdom of God.
Now some other thoughts. Other arguments that people have. Paul’s “thorn in the flesh.” That’s a great one. People always ask what was Paul’s thorn in the flesh? Now it’s a great question because there’s so much debate and confusion about it but it’s actually kind of a silly question because the Bible actually says what Paul’s thorn in the flesh was. Did you know that? It says “There was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan sent to torment me.” Now that’s pretty clear. In fact the Greek word for messenger is “angelos” which is the word translated “angel,” an angel of Satan. And there’s only two other places that mention angels of Satan. Like the dragon and his angels were thrown down to the earth. Right? And I don’t remember what the other one is but only two places and it’s always referring to demons. So pretty simple. A demon of Satan was given to him.
A messenger of Satan was given to him to keep him humble. Now what did that demon do? That’s the part that’s a debate. Okay? It was just a demon. Now some demons can cause a physical problems. Sure. I’ve seen a whole lot of that happen. But in this case I’ve walked through all these questions. You know some of the popular theories like Paul having an eye problem. I mean I’ve written about this extensively. There’s no way to make that work. In fact if you want to read a classic book that’ll teach you that, F.F. Bosworth wrote one and thoroughly dismantled the idea that Paul had an eye problem. It’s kind of ridiculous when you see the logic of it especially looking at the fullness of the New Testament. But, yeah, I personally believe that it was a demon inciting persecution everywhere Paul went.
Cause he faced more persecution than anybody. In fact he said it was sent to buffet me and that word “buffet” means repeated blows [sounds of his fists hitting] as with a fist. Now furthermore some people question maybe this is my thorn in the flesh or something like that. I say, no. Throw that away. Because you know you’re telling me that you— Smith Wigglesworth. Actually if you know who he is. He was a minister back in the early 1900’s. And he— a woman came to him and said that and if I remember right he said something like are you so prideful that you think you’ve had such an abundance of revelations as Paul did that you need a thorn in the flesh? Be healed in Jesus name and the woman got healed. (laughs)
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)
ART: Yeah. So separate yourself from that thinking. Set aside the thorn in the flesh thing. That’s not for you. If you’ve had all kinds of crazy revelations of heaven that are too wonderful to share then sure you’re allowed to have one if you want to. It’s okay?
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)
ART: But until you’ve had that I’m not letting you claim it. All right? So that’s the deal. Now another one. Jacob’s limp. What about Jacob? He limped for the rest of his life and it was a blessing. Did you know that’s nowhere in the Bible? Did you know that? I searched backwards and forwards could not find anything that said Jacob limped for the rest of his life. What I did find the reason we believe it is because Jacob wrestles with that angel. Right? And some believe that is was actually a pre-incarnate Jesus that he wrestled with and he wrestles with Him until I want that blessing. Right? And then the blessing was a dislocated hip or something like that, we think. But whatever happened it says that as the sun rose over Peniel, Jacob stumbled. He limped or halted says the King James.
The Greek word there literally means “stumbled” in fact everywhere else that it’s used in the Old Testament to describe an action it’s translated “stumbled” but to describe a person it’s translated “lame.” Okay? And then the other verse we have is that at the end of his life at 140 years old it says he leaned on his staff and blessed his sons. And people say well he leaned on his staff. That meant he must have limped his whole life. Moses had a staff. We don’t think he limped. Elijah had a staff. We don’t think he limped. It was a sign of authority. And if you’re 140 years old I expect you to be leaning on a staff. Right?
SID: In other words, if you knew where they were, you could get your prayers answered, you could accomplish everything the Bible says you’re supposed to, but you have to know where it is. So what did you see?
JAMES: I saw that covering, and I prayed to the Lord to break the power of the enemy to cover the open portals. And it was then that I came to understand that these were portals for prayer. And as soon as I asked the Lord and I stood with him to rebuke them, all the dark clouds went away. All the portals were suddenly open. Now these are not little tiny little openings. They’re huge. And immediately, the prayers of the people were going through.
Now, the Lord told me that he was showing it to me that way, but actually the prayers were never stopped. It’s a delusion that the enemy has to try to bring doubt into our lives, to make us afraid and think, “Well, heaven’s closed. My prayers are not being heard.” And I hear that from people all the time, “The Lord is not hearing my prayers.” Yes, he is. He’s hearing your prayers. And even if you’re seeing the dark cloud, that’s something that’s dark within us. And what we need to do is to rebuke that, to get rid of that so that we can see it and we have the confidence to know our prayers are getting through to the Lord.
SID: You wrote an entire book on spiritual preparation. And if I was God, I would have picked a Colonel to do a manual on how to survive in the last days. Give me a couple of the steps. I happen to really like this step called, let go of excessive baggage.
JAMES: Well, that one also began with a vision. That’s a surprise, right? But anyway, I was walking on this really beautiful road up a mountain, and it was, the road was going around the mountain so you’re constantly getting closer and closer to the top. It was smooth, it was easy, which is a little unusual, but that’s what I was experiencing. And I suddenly came to a barrier, and the barrier blocked the whole road. And there was a sign there that said, to proceed, leave all unnecessary baggage behind. And I saw several bags there that other people are left behind. So I dropped everything I had, it opened, and I moved up. And so I began to pray for understanding about those bags. What is it that we really need to drop? And the Lord showed me that there’s some spiritual baggage that we need to get rid of.
You know, it’s hard enough to carry physical stuff, but if you’re also weighed down by spiritual things, and the Lord was saying that one of the things we need to get rid of is all unresolved sin. He’s already created a process to do that. All we have to do is repent and ask Jesus to forgive us and to come into our hearts again. He also said get rid of all the doctrines of man. Get back to my doctrine, but unload all that baggage, stuff that you learned all through your life that’s just really not biblical.
He said, get rid of false guilt. Now, false guilt is when we feel guilty about something we had absolutely no control over. That’s false guilt. You’re not guilty for what you couldn’t do or couldn’t have control over. But a lot of people carry that baggage, and we see it across the country now. We’re being told to feel guilty about things that happened in the past that we had no control over. We weren’t even alive when some of these things happened.
JOHN: Okay, some of you aren’t getting this, some of you are. Okay, all right. All of you know me as John Bevere, speaker, some of you know me as John Bevere, author, but there is a lady, and she is a lady, her name is Lisa, Lisa Bevere. She knows me as John Bevere, husband, she knows me as John Bevere, best friend, she knows me as John Bevere, Dad, she knows me as John Bevere, Gee Daddy, that’s grandpa because I’m way too young to be called grandpa, she knows me as John Bevere, athlete, she knows me as John Bevere, lover. Now can I say this û none of you will ever know me as John Bevere, lover!
AUDIENE: (LAUGHING)
JOHN: That is a facet of my personality you will never know. Only Lisa knows it because she’s the closest person to me on this earth. God just revealed a facet of His personality to Abraham that nobody had ever known before because he’s my friend. Now if you look at the relationship between God and Abraham it’s amazing. One day God makes this statement: Should we do what we’re planning on doing with Sodom and Gomorrah without first talking to our friend Abraham about this? So the Lord comes down by the terebinth tree, has a meal with Abraham and He and Abraham leave the two angels and everybody else, all the servants and they go over to the cliff and they look over the plains of Sodom and the Lord looks at Abe and says, “Abe, we’re thinking about blowing up these two cities. What do you think?”
AUDIENCE: (BIG LAUGHTER)
JOHN: And Abe goes SODOM! And the Lord goes yeah, yeah, yeah, Sodom, and Gomorrah, too. What do you think? And Abe goes “think, think, think— Okay, okay, wait! You wouldn’t like blow up these two cities if there was 50 righteous people, would you? And the Lord goes, “Excellent idea, excellent idea! Okay, we will not blow up the cities if there’s 50 righteous people.” Glad we talked to our friend, Abraham. Abraham goes what if there isn’t 50. He goes wait a minute, wait a minute, what about if there was 45 righteous people? Would you blow up the cities if there’s 45? The Lord goes “another good idea. Okay, we will not blow up the cities if there’s 45.” So Abraham talks Him all the way down to ten. He figures there’s got to be ten, I mean I got Lot’s, one, all I need is 9 others. Right?
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)
JOHN: But you know there’s not. Now this is what is amazing. The Bible says Sodom and Gomorrah’s buying, selling, trading, marrying, giving in marriage, planting and harvesting. What is all that in today’s vernacular? Life is great, the economy is booming, and if there is a God, He doesn’t mind our lifestyle. They’re 24 hours from being obliterated and they’re clueless. That is not what’s scary. This is what is scary! Everybody say ‘lot”!
AUDIENCE: Lot!
JOHN: Who the Bible calls righteous. Okay, let me put it to you in today’s terminology. Saved, born again, Christian.
AUDIENCE: Right, uh, huh, c’mon now. JOHN: Lot’s 24 hours away from being obliterated. He’s as clueless as Sodom and Gomorrah. It takes two messengers of mercy, two angels, because Abraham prayed, thank God Abraham prayed, to get him out. And his wife was a little too attached, that’s why she became a pillar of salt and Jesus says in the New Testament ‘remember Lot’s wife” in speaking about the fear of the Lord.
SID: I am going to take this wonderful opportunity to ask a couple of questions to John Bevere that I’ve really wanted to hear from him the answers. John, you said something when I interviewed you on television. You said there was a season in your life where you were praying in the Holy Spirit two hours every day. But then you made a switch and tell me what the switch was and the results that happened.
JOHN: The switch was, I kept— if I’m, if I’m remembering, I’m going back to our radio interview. I was praying everyday “God use me.” Use me to win multitudes to Jesus, use me to cast out demons, use me to heal the sick people, use me to restore people’s lives, restore marriages. And I was praying this way for years. And one day the Holy Spirit spoke to me and He said, “Your prayers are off.” And I said, “What!” He said, “Your prayer are off target.” And I said I’m asking you to use me win multitudes to Jesus, to heal people, to heal marriages, to heal bodies. How can they be off? And He said this to me, He said, “Judas cast our devils, Judas healed the sick, Judas preached repentance, Judas led people to me,” because when He sent the 12 out He sent the 12 out. He said, “Judas left everything he had to follow me.” He said, “Judas is in hell.”
SID: Uh!!
JOHN: When He said that to me, I literally started trembling inside. I said, ‘then what should I be praying?” And then He said to me, “What Paul prayed: that I might know Him.” And so those who know their God will be strong and do exploits. So He said, “You can use me.” He said, “I don’t use people. I transform them into the image of My son.”
AUDIENCE: Mmmm, huh!
JOHN: I mean can you just see me coming into my— or my wife coming in to me and saying, “John, use me to make babies for you! (pleading) I want to make babies, Ohhh— I want to make babies. Give me babies or I’m going to die!
SID: Ha!
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER) JOHN: Okay, so what would I look at my wife and say? Oh my gosh, who did I marry! Okay? (Sid and audience laugh) But we’re intimate and out of our intimacy came four really great boys. And He said, “I want you intimate with me.” So my whole prayer started changing. “God, I want to know You intimately. I want to know You intimately. I want to know You like You know me.” Well you know what’s interesting? This was back in 1984-85. And in this time period when I started changing my prayer, I started getting free. I was bound to pornography and here I was in the ministry. And I asked Lester Sumrall to pray for me.
I opened up to him, I said, “I’m bound, will you pray for me?” He prayed a very strong prayer and nothing happened. Nine months later I’m on a four day fast, and May the 6st, 1985 I get completely delivered from pornography. Okay? So I’m walking in my freedom a couple a years and I said to God, I said, “I don’t get it.” I mean I humbled myself. I asked one of the strongest men of God I know on the planet to get me delivered, and I don’t get delivered. And then nine months later I’m on this fast and I get delivered. And the Lord showed me that what I was praying, I was praying that “God use me, God use me” and I was afraid that pornography was going to keep me to the preaching ministry I know I was called to.
GUILLERMO: My back is hurting me. Do something where you couldn’t do before. If you don’t respond, God doesn’t come where He is tolerated, He comes where He is celebrated. You need to celebrate God. You need to say “Jesus I am delivered now, I am healed now” and I’m gonna jump, I’m gonna move, I’m gonna do something. So God, today I want you to move, I want you to respond. I don’t want you to say like, [said with reserve] “Well, praise you Jesus.” Pastor what are they gonna think. I think I’m crazy. No, you’re not crazy. —You need to respond to the supernatural. Can I hear an amen? I’m very ready to minister. Are you ready to respond? I say are you ready to respond. Are you ready to respond? You need to respond to the supernatural.
AUDIENCE: (STANDING, CLAPPING, SHOUTING)
GUILLERMO: Well, responding. Say with me ‘responding to the supernatural.” You need to respond. That’s what I call the “Law of Response.” —If you move in the supernatural you must disconnect your reason. Why? Because whatever God tells you to do will not make sense. I know many of you are normal so that you make sense. But the majority of the time whatever God speaks to you will not make sense. He will not make any sense. You say what? What do you mean? I don’t know. How is it— well don’t you say God I step out in faith? I will see, you will see my young people going out and ministering to the sick and prophesying and giving names to the people, who’s this person in your life and they go “What?” Because they stepping out. You must be bold. And as I prayed this morning the Holy Spirit said I want you to pray for the people to be activated in the supernatural, to be imparted in the supernatural, and then He said at the end I want you to release boldness. Okay, okay, somebody said “yeah, but that doesn’t go with my personality—
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHS)
GUIILLERMO: Hey, you’re too polite— you must be crazy for a moment. Do I have crazy people here today?
AUDIENCE: Yeah!!! (CLAPPING)
GUILLERMO: You’re too polite. I’m too polite. Yeah, I don’t care how God will do it. I don’t care. If I want to jump, I want to roll on the floor, I will do it. But you must say God— I’m willing to— (laughs) this is what I teach the people— Have you noticed in America why most of the preachers don’t demonstrate what they preach? Not here, I mean over here guys—
AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER) GUILLERMO: Okay, you know why? 3 reasons. Number 1: because there’s nothing to prove. It is easy to preach a message that you don’t have to prove. Number 2, the reason they can’t demonstrate it is because they don’t have revelation. You can have the best message, get all the dictionaries, and all the good things but if you don’t have the breath of the Spirit nothing will happen. No demonstration. And number 3, I like this one, they don’t wanna lose, they don’t wanna risk their reputation.
Over here guys, can you help me?” You lost your reputation so you can go “amen.” They don’t wanna risk their reputation. Okay, I’ll prove it you. (to congregation) Sit down. I’ll prove it to you? Can you move this? You want me to lose my reputation? (audience laughs) Is anybody sick in their body here? Okay, I want you to stand, I want you to stand, I want you to stand if you’re sick in your body. And what I will do is pray here. I can do it, but I’ve got my people here, they can do the same thing, okay, but I will demonstrate it to you for you to see it. But if you do the most of the preachers will not do it because they say “Well, I’m too big.
