Sid:  My guest John McTernan is a prophet, he wrote a book called “As America has done to Israel.” He’s just recently updated it, it is such an urgent book. He proves that the major economic disasters of modern day America can be pinpointed within 24 hours in most instances of going against Israel.  And we were talking about Hurricane Ike and we we’re talking about the various financial institutions that have been shaken to their core and that happened within 24 hours of the United States making public they were trying to divide Jerusalem.  Now John you have spoken on our radio broadcast for years and you use a terminology that you’ve recently changed, the terminology that you used to use was warning judgments.  You’re calling it more serious now, explain the difference.

John:  Yeah Sid I believe that what I had documented in the past was God’s warning to the nation that we’re on a collision course with Him.  And Sid some of those warning judgments were some of the most powerful hurricanes that ever hit America.  The North Ridge Earthquake for example, stock market, big stock market down turns, massive flooding that was occurring on the same time that we were pressuring Israel.  Gigantic forest fires, especially out west, and we’ve always recovered Sid.  Fortunately there was never really a great loss of life.  So I use the terminology warning, judgments or judgments unto repentance.  When I went around and spoke through the country or was on your show I would state that, “This is God trying to get our attention” because it’s usually on the front pages of the papers Sid. You’ll see Arafat would come here to meet with well it was President Clinton at the time and every time Sid, Arafat came to divide the land there was a disaster that hit, big stock market down turns, hurricanes hitting, massive floods.  And I’ve documented all that in my book, but now Sid I believe that these judgments unto repentance, the warning judgments God gave us about twenty years Sid the nation as a whole did not listen.  For whatever reasons pastors were too busy to lead their churches in repentance and crying out to the Lord; where cause that the church did not respond and now Sid I believe that we crossed that threshold, we crossed the red line; and were into the destructive judgment Sid for which there is no remedy.

Sid:  You explain to me that often times at 3:00 AM in the morning God will wake you up and speak to you, but on yesterday’s broadcast He said something that shook you to the core.  Would you repeat that?

John:  Yes Sid, He said that I heard it clear as a bell, I have broken the back of America and that has to do with the economy Sid.

Sid:  Now many of prophetic friends tell me that if there’s proper prayer and repentance as late as the hour is things can turn around.  What do you feel?

John:  Well Sid, it would have to be an emergency, it would have to be the church literally overnight rising up to do that because Sid each day that this goes on it’s sort of like hemorrhaging. It’s sort of like a person hemorrhaging, and you’ve got to stop the hemorrhaging because the blood loss you’ll die and our economy is the same way Sid.  And without the church rising up and crying out to the Lord in repentance Sid I believe that we’re on the way down to becoming—the power will be taken away from America Sid and we’ll become, this is a hard thing to say, but economically were going to become like a third world nation.  Our money will be worth nothing Sid, we’ll be saddled with an enormous debt and the whole country will be locked into this, there will be no liquidities Sid.

Sid:  In your book you pin point exactly when the U.S. walked away from the blessings in reference to Israel.

John:  Yes Sid.

Sid:  Explain that.

John:  Sid it starts with the Madrid Peace Process on October 30, 1991.  President Bush Senior took it upon himself to initiate a comprehensive peace plan for the Middle East, which meant Sid, for Israel to give up Covenant land for peace.  From that day on Sid these tremendous disasters that have been hitting America almost all of them are associated with us dividing the land of Israel.  That’s what I document in the book. and Sid I couldn’t put all of them in the book because there was too many so I limited it to about forty.

Sid:  If I were to push you to come up with a number of how many things you document from the newspapers and from history, modern history and judgments within 24 hours or so after, how many would they be would you say?

John:  Sid, I would say a fair number is seventy-five and they’re happening so fast now that it’s virtually every day adding to it.  But Sid when we’re talking about this, we’re not talking about weekend thunderstorms, were not talking about the stock market losing you know 120 points on a day, we’re talking about massive hurricanes like Andrew and Ike which just hit and Katrina.  And we’re talking about Sid just to bring this to your attention, your listener’s attention.  I’ve pin pointed the very day that the NASDAQ peaked, and it was in 2000, Sid March 10^th 2000.  And on that very day that it peaked and you remember it peaked at 5,048 points and on that day Ehud Barak had been in the United States talking with President Clinton about dividing up Israel and ended up the Camp David Accords in July of that year.  But on the very day Sid that the NASDAQ peaked and then it contract Sid to the point now that it’s at 2,000, but NASDAQ was 3 trillion dollars Sid. The very day that it peaked was the day that Barak was here in the United States meeting with President Clinton to divide Jerusalem and the NASDAQ went into convulsions after that and we ended up losing 3 trillion dollars.

Sid:  What is God telling you?  What are you feeling to very core of your being as to what will trigger the next judgment in America, and what might it be?

John:  Sid there’s several things going on; one is the economy which is so prevalent right now.  President Bush is determined, is determined Sid that he wants a comprehensive peace plan for Israel and the Palestinians before he leaves office which is in January next year.  And Sid if he continues this and Condalisa Rice, Secretary Rice, going over there pressuring the Israelis to divide the land and to divide Jerusalem, Sid based on what’s happened with the Lord up to this point I see Him continuing to grind our economy into dust Sid.  That’s what I said, “We will be turned into a third world country.”  But Sid at the same time as this Russia is back as a world power.

Sid:  That really, I mean I’m amazed the way that they’re flexing their muscles and virtually ignoring the United States warnings.

John:  Yes Sid, Russia wants a confrontation with the United States. Sid I’m saying this because you asked me like a feeling, I’m not saying that I heard this from the Lord, but it’s very possible that the Lord is raising up Russia in a military sense to judge us Sid.  And that’s very hard as an American to say, the Russians have been you know obviously been so evil in everything they’ve done.  But Sid when Israel went wayward from the Lord and Israel was worshipping Baal, killing their children and they had homosexual temples there on the top next the Lord’s temple.  God raised up Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians to come in and judge Israel. Sid I got this sinking feeling inside of me that we don’t realize how far, what we’ve done to the Lord to anger Him Sid.  We don’t realize what His word says about Jerusalem and dividing the land, we kind of like gloss over that and say we’ll were Americans.  Sid it doesn’t say in the Bible that I will judge all nations except Americans Sid.  That’s the reality of God’s Word and we’ve been cavalier with it here Sid, the pastors have not taken it serious, I know you have but so many do not take this serious and they’re blinded by a false doctrine, or they are blinded by worldliness.  Sid so many of many are afraid to speak out, they’re afraid of being ridiculed.  These pastors and church leaders are afraid of being ridiculed and the integrity of our country is at stake Sid.

Sid:  Pretty sobering thoughts; you know people say to me “What should I invest in, what should I be devoting my life to, there is only one thing, “He who wins souls is wise.

John:  Yes.

Sid:  No matter how smart your investment advisors are “He who wins souls is wise, the only thing that you’re going to take with you are souls.” And what concerns me is some that have picked up on God blessing those that bless the Jewish people and they’re going for economic blessings, verses spiritual blessings.  The spiritual blessings are the ones that last forever.  So what if you get more white paper with green ink and it isn’t worth anything; “He who wins souls is wise.”

Sid:  We are about ready to see an invasion of the Kingdom of heaven like no one has ever seen before and that’s why I’m so excited to be featuring this week Eddie Roger’s book “Supernatural” subtitled “Living under an Open Heaven.”  Because we’re coming into the days that the prophets just dreamt about.  But we’re coming into the days in which the average Christian will be walking in extraordinary signs and wonders, walking under what is referred to as an open heaven.  Sort of like oh, Jacob might have done when he wrestled with the angel and he saw the ladder and he saw angels coming up and down.  And my guest Eddie Rogers, because he was obedient he made a move and when he made a move there was such an outpouring of angelic activity you were telling me on yesterday’s broadcast that your children report, your family report seeing angels all over your property.  You even take photographs and you can see the lights which you call orbs.  Do you have any photographs that have a lot of these lights or are they just a few?

Eddie:  We have many that will show maybe twenty twenty-five, thirty even at one time as well as individual photographs that they will be in it as well.  Orbs’, just meaning a circle of light is what it was.  But you’ll recall that William Branham said in one of the books, that was written about him, “That often he would see the angel that would minister to him come to him as a ball of light,” and that sounds like an orb to me.

Sid:  You know Eddie there is such an increase in the presence of God I feel like it’s like it’s almost accelerating by the second as we’re speaking.  Has God shown you anything that He’d like to do right now?

Eddie:  Absolutely, He sure is as we were coming on the Holy Spirit began speaking, I began writing it down.  There is a man by the name of John Tanner that you have a neck problem, you had a problem, this in the cervical spine of your neck and accident.  I don’t know if they have done surgery on it, but if you will put your hand on the back of your neck right now you’ll feel the warmth of the power of the Lord go into that neck and begin to melt that stiffness.  You’ve not been able to turn it, you’ve been in pain when you turn to one side, “In the Name of Jesus I thank You Lord right now, You heal that,” and as you move your neck you are going to find freedom in it.  And also there is a lady by the name of Mary that you had digestion problems and the doctors have told you that there is a whole in lining of your stomach.  And right now Mary the Holy Spirit, you are going to feel a warmth come into your stomach and that hole is closing up and you’re going to able to eat without the aid of digestive enzymes and other things irritating your stomach.  Thank You Lord.

Sid:  Now I tried to understand sometimes spiritual things you can’t understand, but is this your angel whispering to you these secrets or how do you know these things?

Eddie:  You know that’s what I believe, you know it all is directed by the great Holy Spirit, He is our partner and we’re in ministry with Him, but He gives the directives to this angel.  You know Sid, it’s just like God can do all this without us but He gives us the great privilege of participating in His Kingdom and so do these angels and I believe that even while we were coming on the air was when He began speaking and I heard name and I heard the problems and ailments that He was healing.

Sid:  Tell me about that wonderful New Years Eve Service you had.

Eddie:  Oh, this was awesome.  At New Years Eve in a little town called Tallapoosa, GA which is literally right on the Georgia, Alabama border.  It was a great meeting that night Sid, we probably had a total of eighteen people there and, but God showed up and it was so wonderful there.  The Pastor of that church had his son of eleven years old had been born with a congenital birth defect; both of his feet were turned out to the side where he literally waddled like a duck.  And they had carried him to doctors and the plan was when he reached about the age of sixteen or seventeen after his bones had matured that they were going to go in and cut his tib fib bones and turn his feet straight and put screws in it.  Now the problem with it he couldn’t run or could he jump but he would just waddle like that.  He had preached his first sermon that night, the boy is called to the ministry and I believe that this is one reason God is doing this to such a young generation is that He’s calling these kids on fire now, not only are they going to be preaching, they are going to be carrying signs and wonders.  At the close of the service, they had been many people many, I say several because we only had about eighteen but that particular night there were backs healed, necks healed, shoulders healed and the Lord was just giving very detailed word of knowledge and calling the people out and telling them what their problem was.  When I said, “Okay, is there anybody else that needs prayer before we go,” as it was getting close to midnight.  The Pastor’s son who sat right in front of me on the front row the entire night, he stood up and I looked at him, looked down and said, “Son, what do you need?”  And he just dropped his head and looked to his feet and then that was when I noticed that his feet were turning toward the opposite walls.  And I well, sit down son, and not knowing what I was going to do or knowing what I was going to pray.  When he sat down, I knelt down at in front of him and said, “Just put your feet up here in my hands.”  And the moment that he put his feet in my hands Sid there was no time to pray, I didn’t have time to pray, “Lord come,” I didn’t have time to pray a sanctified prayer, I didn’t have time to say, “In the Name of Jesus.”  But as soon as his feet hit my hand his feet and ankles began shaking and trembling and they started turning upward toward the ceiling and I looked at him.  And I said, “Son, are you turning your feet?” And he looked at me with these eyes that were as big as saucers, and he said, “No, are you?”  Ha, I said, “No son I’m not turning them either.  And right there in front of his mother, father and everyone else God instantly healed him.  He jumped down, he jumped to his feet, feet pointing straight ahead as they normally should.  He said, “Can I run?”  I said, “Go for it!”  And he ran around the church twice just high speed and you know of course the mother, the father were both weeping and crying.  But the father he has since made “Supernatural Living under an Open Heaven” he made it required reading for every one of his church members.

Sid:  Well, I don’t blame him, I should make it required reading for everyone listening to us right now, but if you don’t have that desire then I can’t make you.   But tell me about that eighty-eight year old woman, Kathryn.

Eddie:  Miss Kathryn Dougroe that you are acquainted with as well as I she had been in a car accident with her granddaughter and she had broke several ribs.  And my wife and I along with another friend of ours had gone to her house to pray for her.  She had been released from the hospital.  They had told her that at her age her was nothing that they could do, they kind of wrapped her up, but they couldn’t set them, they couldn’t do anything for her.  So she was in a lot of pain, she couldn’t even move without just crying out, oh!  And we sat down at her table and we asked her if we could pray for her,  but this is when we have to be really sensitive to the Holy Spirit and do what He says do when He says do it, it is not just a matter of praying.

Sid:  Timing is everything.

Eddie:  Absolutely and we talk about that in the book that we got to do it when God says do it.  You know Jesus only did what He saw the Father do and He only did it when He said, “Do it.”  And we had to wait for the right timing in the room when the room was cleared of unbelief, and when the unbelief had left, I said, “Okay, let’s pray for her right now.”  And my wife reached over and she put her hand on her cracked ribs, her literally broken ribs and we said, “In in the Name of Jesus I command those ribs to go back.”  And Miss Kathryn let out a holler, about the same time my wife did as well, Miss Kathryn was holler for glory, my wife was hollering because she felt the bones move under her hand and they instantly went back into place and she was healed, all of the pain left.   It was just an awesome miracle of God, reversing the accident that had taken place.

Sid:  Tell me about Willie.

Eddie:  Free Willie, that’s what we called him, Free Willie.  Willie was a guy that had that was involved in some witchcraft and some other demonic stuff.  He was 6’5” and he probably weighed 400 pounds.  This was coming in a little place called Statesboro, Georgia.  I had just returned from a week in Brazil where we had been confronted often throughout that week with witchcraft and other things and it’s not that you go looking for it, you don’t go looking for it, but when it manifests it’s kind of the Kingdom of God you deal with it.  I was going back to the Pastors office when I had heard somebody call my name and I went into a room and there were three elders in the room with this guy named Willie.  When I walked into the room I noticed that one elder was on one arm with another elder on another arm and the third elder had him from behind by his belt loops.  When I walked into the room Willie looked at me and he said, “I’m going to kill you.” And you know just being tried and exasperated from the long trip to Brazil I guess it was a sarcastic answer, but I said, “Not today, you’re not.”  Ha.  And he came at me full force dragging the three elders who were trying to hold him back.  It was again it was one of those times when you just can’t pray, there is not time to pray, it’s like Peter sinking in the water.  I put up my hand and closed my eyes and I just said, “Jesus.”  And His chest hit my hand, but I felt before he came to me I felt the wind come around me from both sides, from my left and to my right and I knew that it were my angels.  It was a literal breeze and when I opened my eyes his chest had touched my hand and he was knocked back about ten feet along with those three elders, it looked like somebody had hit him with a 2×4 square in his head all the way against the wall and slid down the wall.  That was the power of God, the angels taking care of him.  And then we just jumped right in the middle of his big stomach and said, “I’m tired of this devil, come out of him.”  And he was delivered, but he was one of those people that when he would look at you there were little red beady eyes looking back at you.  But he got delivered, Free Willie wasn’t free but Free Willie got free.

Sid Roth:  And what is going on in your life, do you believe that it should be going on in every Christian’s life?

Eddie:  This is the normal Christian life, the abnormal Christian life is being satisfied with one service a week and going and listening and being a spectator.  God wants us to be participators; He wants us to live under an open heaven.  He wants us right in the throes of what He is doing, you know the secret things belong to God but He has revealed to us…

Sid:  My guest, Steve Solomon, another Jewish man that is red hot for the Jesus.  When he came to the Lord, he didn’t come in an abnormal fashion, he came in a normal fashion.  And you know Steve; everyone thought “I was God’s gift to the Church on the Old Testament because of my Jewish background.”  I didn’t know as much as the average Christian that’s been to Sunday School; I knew the Hebrew prayers, but I didn’t know the Bible.  But just because they knew that I was Jewish they felt I knew every…I hadn’t even read the whole New Testament and they made me a teacher, speaking in front of large groups.  And I understand that they did the same to you, and you decided to teach on Hal Lindsey’s book “Late Great Planet Earth.”  Tell me about that endeavor.

Steve:  Well, yes I went to this church and they decided for me, since I was a Jew and Israel is a sign of the last days; “Israel shall be trodden by the Gentiles” as Jesus prophesied “Until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.”  And it was trodden down for 2,000 years and God supernaturally raised Israel as a nation back up, the homeland for our family, the sons of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.  And since I was a Jew naturally I should know everything.  Well, I was only saved about six or seven months Sid, so they gave me the book, “The Late Great Planet Earth” and they said teach this on Sunday mornings.  Well the first class was over 200 people in the Sunday school class if you could believe it; because this Jew was going to teach.  Well I started teaching it; I started reading…

Sid:  And I might add back then there weren’t as many Jewish believers in Jesus and the church made such a big deal out of us back then, but go ahead.  You and I are two of the few that survived that big deal.

Steve:  Yeah I know, Amen.  Ha-ha.  Well I had to be crushed, the Lord had to crush me to powder to get me through it, but that is another story.  So we did that and the problem was I started reading the Bible along with the book and I found out that God does not have a Gentile Bride that’s going to be taken out of the earth and leaving a Jewish Bride to suffer tribulation and wrath.

Sid:  That’s the deal, we believer’s get taken out and the Jews are left with the consequences.

Steve:  Yeah, and then I found the scripture Revelation 20 verse 6, “Blessed and holy is he who have part in the first resurrection on such the second death has no power but they shall be preached of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”  So I thought, wait a minute.  If you don’t go in the first resurrection then you’re going to be in the second resurrection and that’s the second death.  So could it be that God was going to wait until every person Jew and Gentile and the Body of Christ has always been made up of not just Gentiles but Jews and Gentiles.  There has never been a Gentile Bride; it’s been the Israel of God Bride.  It’s made up of both, any way so I started thinking about this.  And well I started really praying and seeking the Lord and I started really teaching, and at the same time teaching that “You know tribulation is not a big deal because we all have to go through tribulation.  And we’re not appointed to the wrath of God; the wrath of God is on the world who denies the Messiah and not on the believers.  And the children of Israel were in the land of Egypt when the plagues came down, but in the land of Goshen not even a dog was touched.  Sid, I went to prayer one time about this and I fell asleep, do you want to hear about the supernatural experience?

Sid:  I can’t wait.

Steve:  Okay, I went to sleep.  Have you ever gone to sleep when you were trying to pray?  Lord have mercy, ha-ha.

Sid:    Ha-ha.

Steve:  A lot of times I would come out of my prayer closet and it was typical my wife knew I was sleeping, and “So you’ve been praying again.”

Sid:  Ha-ha.

Steve:  This time I went to sleep and went into a trance and this may sound weird to some people, but I went into a trance and I was talking to a man I knew was the Apostle Paul.  Now I know that some people will call me a hieratic, but I can only tell you what happened.  And so Paul was in this room and I was sitting next to him, he was kind of laying down reclining.  And here’s what I said, I said, “Paul, it looks like to me according to the scriptures that the coming of the Lord happens near the end of the tribulation period, not at the beginning.”  And I’ll never forget this and he turned and looked at me face to face, eye to eye and he said these words, I can remember just like it was today and he said, “Almost certain.”  And I woke up and I knew that it was a totally scriptural answer because no man knows the time or the hour except the Father.  Even the Messiah said, “No man, it’s in the Father’s hand.”  If Paul had given me a date it’s going to happen in 1988; it’s going to happen in 2008; it’s going to do whatever then it would have been a totally deceiving diluting spirit.  But he gave me a totally scriptural answer it looks like according to the scripture Sid.  Near the end, “Almost certain.”

Sid:  Well, you know what bothers me the most?  Is so many Gentile Christians, this doesn’t bother me, this blesses me, love the Jewish people, love the nations Israel, but don’t love the Jew enough to share Jesus because it would disrupt their fellowship.  And they figure after the rapture the Jews will get saved, so we might as well just enjoy our good fellowship right now.

Steve:  Sid, there’s only one way to be saved Sid; there won’t be anything different; it’s only by Jesus Christ as Lord!  He the Messiah, believe in your heart, confess Him with your mouth.  Only by the blood of Jesus, the blood of bulls and goats and no other temple being built in any other time is going to save anybody.  It’s the gospel, period!

Sid:  You know a lot of people say, “Show me a miracle.”  As far as I’m concerned a dead nation and Israel was dead; the Jews were scattered to four corners of the earth.  The only acceptable way to be correct under Rabbinic Judaism is to have a temple according to the Torah, “Without the shedding of blood there’s no anointment for sin.”  So without a temple, without out a homeland, persecuted in country throughout the world, God said through His prophet Isaiah “Could a nation be formed in one day?”  And in one day the nation Israel was formed, but that’s not the miracle, that’s a miracle, but the miracle is here we are sixty years later and Israel is still a nation.  Still surrounded by countries that want to totally destroy Israel; want to kill all the Jewish people; outnumbered so many times that we need a calculator to figure this out, but yet Israel survives as a nation.  You have the Riverwalk DNA which we’re featuring this week it’s a CD of music that, when this occurs in your church the supernatural breaks out, but a great deal of supernatural joy breaks out.  There’s a song that we’re going to play an excerpt of “All I Need is You” tell me about this song.

Steve:  This song is about that, you know God is bringing us all to the place, stripping everything away, every earthly crutch so that either He is going to be my sufficiency.   God is glorified, not with all the great things that I do for Him Sid, but God’s only glorified in my total and utter dependence upon Him.

Sid:  And isn’t that what’s going to happen in Israel when they, when Israel when it dawns on Israel that we can no longer depend on our big brother, the United States supporting us; we can only depend on God?

Steve:  As much as I would love us to always be for Israel, the Bible clearly states that all nations shall come against her.  But God says in Jeremiah 16 “If you can remove the sun and the moon and the stars from before you than I’ll remove Israel.”  God will never be removed from what He has promised in His word.  And Israel is coming to the place where all of us as believers have to come, that all we need, all Israel needs is God.  And it’s amazing Sid the sixth birthday, the Lord lately the passed few months has been having me speak on the calling of Israel, and all of these things that have been taken place and it’s amazing.

Sid:  “He that watches Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep,” and He that watches you shall neither slumber nor sleep.   And all you need is Him.

“All I Need is You” worship excerpt

Sid: …You’re in Steve’s church and what goes on in Steve’s church in addition to the oil flowing like a river.  Although I understand it stopped, why did it stop Steve?

Steve:  You know there are times, you know in the supernatural Sid there are times and seasons for God’s outpouring.  And I think that one of the big problems that we miss as Christians…You know when God sent the manna every day, it was only on the Sabbath was we were to collect twice as much, but God gives sufficient for the day and we have to understand the seasons that we’re in.  And it’s always important no matter what supernatural sign shows up that our eyes stay focused on God Himself and not the sign.  The sign draws us to Him and sure get’s our attention, but the Word of God is forever settled in heaven.

Sid Roth:  The purpose of the sign is to get out attention so that we recognize and come to our senses that all we need is Yeshua, all we need is Jesus.  But some of the thing that are going on in your church is outrages…

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Rabbi Jonathan Bernis. And what I want to understand is, according to the Jewish historian, Neander, there were approximately a million Jewish believers in Jesus at the turn of the first century. But somehow something happened and these Jewish people weren’t identified as Jewish believers any more, and it resulted in the church losing its ability to walk in large numbers of people in the miraculous. Jonathan, tell me that scenario.

JONATHAN: Well again as you said, the church, the first church, were all Jews. They never converted to Christianity. They lived as Jews. But of course in Acts, Chapter 10, the Gospel goes to Cornelius, Paul becomes the apostle to the gentles and the Gospel quickly spread in the gentile world. And sadly, by 135, you have writings like Justin Martyr writing against the Jewish believers and saying, “He who claims to be Jewish and Christian is neither Jew nor Christian.” And sadly, the church begins—and there are reasons for this we don’t have to go into, and I think it’s important that Christians do study to understand this—begins to move away from their Jewish roots. And the second century all the way up to the culmination with the Nicene Council in 325 A.D., you have the church severing what’s now the dominantly Gentile church, severing themselves from their Jewish roots. And when that happens, Sid, the power drains out of the church. This is turning your back on your father, I believe. I think that until this is restored we’re not going to see the fullness of power coming into the church. And let me say it the other way. When the Jewish roots of the faith are restored, or the Hebraic roots, we’re going to see an outpouring of the Spirit we haven’t seen since the first century. It’s coming.

SID: I believe that, and that’s what I call the One New Man, when the middle wall comes down between Jew and gentile, to form one new humanity, which will result in the full dwelling place of God by His spirit. Now Jonathan has told me about a heresy that I understand, too, that so few understand. It’s the difference between you being in the blessings of God or the curses of God. Tell me about this heresy.

JONATHAN: I’d have to set it up by saying this. Genesis 12, “I will bless those that bless the children of Abraham and curse the one that curses the children of Abraham,” I believe is just as true and powerful, and real today as when it was written. And that’s the danger here, because we can be under the blessing of God, based on how we treat the Jewish people, or the curse of God. And the heresy is called replacement theology, or Cessationism. And very simply again, in the beginning of the second century this erroneous teaching that the church has replaced Israel. In other words, the Jews killed Jesus. They were responsible for his death. They committed deicide, and now God is through with them, He’s given up with them, they’re under His curse. And so now the new people of God, the new Israel is the church. Now the truth is that Christians become spiritual sons and daughters of Abraham and receive all the blessings given to the Jewish people, or given to the children of Abraham. But they join; they’re grafted into the natural olive tree, which is Israel. Replacement theology, most Christians don’t even know the name, still has vestiges and there’s residue that affects every Christian, and it cuts out the blessing of God.

SID: In Romans 11, that deals so clearly with it. Give me a couple of verses.

JONATHAN: Very simply, “Boast not against the natural branches,” because if God cut them off, how much easier to cut you off. And if he can graft a wild olive branch, which is the Gentile believer, how much easier to re-graft back in the Jewish person and bring them to faith. So it’s very clear. Paul says three times in Romans 11, God has not rejected Israel. It’s so clear, Sid. And we have to come against this heresy if we want to see supernatural outpouring of God’s spirit return to the church.

SID: Well I believe that it’s time for the greatest favor of God to hit Bible believers. It’s time to move from the curse to the blessing. And we have a mezuzah that we’ve designed for the people that we mentor. It’s got millions of Jewish names that do not know the Messiah in this mezuzah. We’re instructed in Scripture to put it on our door. And Jewish people kiss it when they enter their door or when they leave their door, and they pray for God’s blessing over them when they’re in their house and when they leave their house. How much greater blessing when we pray for the salvation of millions of Jewish people. Jonathan, I want you to agree in prayer with me, as we pray over this mezuzah, and I want you to agree in prayer with me as we pray that these millions of Jewish people come to know their Messiah, and you will walk under the blessings of Genesis 12:3, the favor of God. We agree in Yeshua’s name that the spiritual scales will come off the eyes of Jewish people. We agree in Yeshua’s name the spiritual scales will come off the eyes of Christians to be able to share the Good News with Jewish people. We agree in the name of Yeshua’s name that there are modern day Paul the Apostles in these names that will lead the world in righteousness, and yea, once again, the Word of the Lord will go out from Zion. And I am so excited when these Jewish people become one with Gentile Christians and the middle wall of separation is finally coming down.

SID ROTH: Next week on It’s Supernatural. Is it possible that there is an ancient mystery that holds the key to America’s future? Could this same mystery be behind current events from 9/11 to our economic meltdown, to even the war in Iraq?

Sid:  Now for those that aren’t familiar with Grace Williams I have interviewed her before but tell me just briefly Grace, about your great, great, great, great, grandfather.

Grace:  Well, Sid he was a circuit rider preacher and he use to actually travel up and down the coast of California and he operated in healing and the fire of God was upon his life.  And there was actually magazine, newspaper articles written about him that his eyes burned with the fire of God.  And his face like just had the glory literal, the tangible glory shining and glowing on his face, they would call him like the man that burned in the pulpit.  And so that is my spiritual heritage you know.

Sid:  Well, he actually prayed that he would have relatives that would carry this mantle.  Tell me about that prayer.

Grace:  Yes, and he prayed that his you know his descendants would know God and he even prayed to be careful of the rearing of your sons and daughters.  And it was pretty amazing because my Mom was really the first in her family, she was kind of the breaker that…

Sid:  Well, you wouldn’t have even been here if she wasn’t because you shouldn’t have even lived.

Grace:  Yes, yes exactly and so she actually found out about him through a cousin or something and oh yeah everybody thought that he was kind of crazy.  And she had always been seeking God but didn’t know anybody in her immediate family that even knew of God and then she found this book and thought oh my gosh he was praying for me.  And so the power of like the generational prayers and blessings and just an amazing heritage that we you know that I am walking in now that I’m in California and we have a church here and I’m able to lead worship and carry really this wave of glory that God is pouring out here.

Sid:  I feel the wave of glory right now.  Just for the, again for those that aren’t familiar with you when you were three you spoke in tongues.  At three I didn’t even know what it meant, at four you played the piano, you reached over towards the piano and you started playing the piano; at twelve you were a worship leader; at six you even got a vision for your life, briefly tell me about it.

Grace:  Yes, yes well I did I saw these music notes and music literally encircling the earth and going around the world like this beautiful almost like a ribbon of these you know if you ever, anybody that reads music or know what music looks like, it was these music notes and this beautiful ribbon of music just encircling the whole earth.  And that was like one of the first, it was the first you know vision I saw and at such a young age and I was just so overwhelmed and thought, this is what the Lord has called me to to sing forth His praise and to just worship Him and fill the earth with His glory.

Sid:  I mean at age six to know what your purpose was, I mean there are people listening to us that are in their sixties and they don’t even know what their purpose is.  Now of all of your songs my producer says that the one that she loves the most is “Beautiful Place” and she gets up in the middle of the night and just worships to that song.  There are people that take your music and literally they get so deep in the Spirit that they have trips to heaven.  Tell me about one.

Grace:  Yes, well we received this one testimony and it was actually a Director of a School of Supernatural Ministry and they listened to my music and soak and just wait on the Lord and use it for their worship time and they have had just many heavenly encounters.  And like you said, the testimony was like they’ve actually taken trips to heaven listening to your music and he was just saying thank you so much, that it’s been such a blessing and really just he was saying thank you for your heart and for your obedience and dedication that it’s really pouring out on this next generation you know.  And so that really blessed my heart because that’s really my heart to see young people walk in their destiny and calling because I have walked in that and so it’s really my heart to just give that impartation to this next generation that they would carry that torch an like you said, walk in their destiny and calling.  And it’s never too late, you know, its never too late so I just want to encourage people that God has an amazing destiny, an amazing calling for each and every person that’s listening and so I just want to release that right now Lord.  That every single person that’s listening to this right now would walk in their destiny and their calling Lord.  That You’ve called each and every person to something wonderful and great Lord, there’s greatness inside of each and every person Lord, and I just pray that they would step into that and walk into that Lord.  And I pray that even as they listen to this music Lord that you would just open up the heaven’s Lord and reveal Lord Your will to each and every person that they would see, that they would see themselves Lord in what you’ve called them to in the Name of Jesus.  Thank you Father, thank you Father.

Sid:  Tell me the story of “Beautiful Place.”

Grace:  Well, beautiful place, one of my most favorite scriptures in Psalm 24:9 and it’s actually the message translation and it says “Worship God if you want the Best.”  Because worship opens doors to all His goodness, and I love that because all His goodness I think, I mean that’s so amazing.  Through worship Sid, through worship we have a powerful opening to all His goodness.  I mean that, that’s as good as it gets for me you know so that’s how powerful worship is.  But this…

Sid:    It’s, it’s almost like Jacobs ladder when you worship.

Grace:  Yes.

Sid:  And the angels come up and down and they bring things to you.

Grace:  Yes.  All his goodness, Amen that’s so, that’s so true so “Beautiful Place” this was just really my heart’s cry and also Psalm 84 talks about it.  “One day, one day spent in Your house, this beautiful place of worship beats thousands elsewhere.”  And I can just attest to that and say, “You know when I’m just, all these songs come out of my personal time of worship and soaking and just prayer unto the Lord and so it’s really like just an overflow of my personal worship experiences with the Lord.  And I always you know pray and I say “God if this is resonating in my heart and my spirit I pray that that would resonate to your people.”  You know “I want that intimacy, I want that secret place anointing” and that’s really what’s on this song.  And I actually had a vision when I was working on this song of this bubble and it was encapsulating me surrounding me with His glory and beauty it was like this iridescent beautiful like huge bubble.  And there’s one part in the song that talks about He’s bringing us, the Lord’s bringing us to this place of intimacy with the Lord and that secret place and that’s where His Devine protection is Sid, His peace, His safety, that real tangible place in the chambers of God’s heart where we can find complete satisfaction and delight.  And I think especially in the times that we are living in right now, and there’s so many people that deal with you know with being anxious or just being unrest and there’s so much you know just turmoil in the world we live in.  And if we can just take time and set aside that time and worship Him and go to that beautiful place.

Sid Roth:  Let’s do that right now Grace, let’s go to that Beautiful Place.”

Grace worship excerpt “Beautiful Place” excerpt:

Sid Roth:  You see what I mean when I say that that’s the oxygen of heaven, worship is the oxygen of heaven.  Do you realize that you’re so dehydrated that you don’t even realize that?  And when you worship God you get totally hydrated from the heaven and doors open and vision comes to you.  People that have stress are being set free, people that have had curses against them, curses are being broken.  People with addictions are being set free; people are going to great intimacy with God.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Jonathan Bernis. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Rabbi Bernis and I go back, what is it, 28 years?

JONATHAN: Twenty-eight. We’re closing on thirty.

SID: I remember some of those early years, I would go up to Rochester, New York where he had a Messianic Jewish congregation and we used to pray all day in supernatural languages, and we were zooming. But you know what’s happening right now, and I have never seen you, Jonathan, so excited about this new thing, the restoration of Hebrew with the promises of God on healing. And why is Hebrew so important?

JONATHAN: Well Sid, Hebrew is the language of the scriptures. The very nature of God, the promises of God, are all given to us in the Hebrew language. It just stands to reason that to go back to the Hebrew language will give us the most accurate, powerful means of confessing God’s Word. I believe God answers in all languages. It doesn’t matter. But the Hebrew language, there is some kind of a restoration of the Hebrew language going on, and there is an anointing on Hebrew, actually a glow on the Hebrew language, the L’Shana Kodesh, Tongue of the Prophets.

SID: I believe that every letter of Hebrew has a meaning and when you can break it down, it’s sort of like the regular Bible and the amplified Bible. Its Supernatural.  It’s just so much fuller. In fact, what did the ancient rabbis tell us about Hebrew?

JONATHAN: Well the ancient rabbis believed that it was better to pray or to speak in the holy language, L’Shana Kodesh, the Holy Tongue, even if you didn’t understand it than any other language. And I don’t want to get too mystical, Sid. But the ancient rabbis, even the rabbis today teach that the Hebrew has certain harmonics.

SID: Sounds.

JONATHAN: Sounds that actually create, that, when the Lord created the world, the heavens and the earth, He created them by the spoken word. And that there’s power, we already know there’s power in the spoken word. But in the Hebrew language in particular it is considered the holy language. And there’s just tremendous power, I believe, both in confession and when you go back to the original Hebrew. I’m very excited.

SID: I know you are. Actually, you found out how important it is to confess or meditate on God’s Word when you were a rabbi in a congregation. Tell me about one of the members it helped.

JONATHAN: You were actually commenting on it at the beginning of the program. The Lord really dealt with me about bringing true change. I had so much counseling with a small congregation, just repetitive sessions where nothing changing, and the Lord really spoke to me clearly about dedicating weeks aside for fasting and prayer. And you actually used to come…

SID: I looked forward to it.

JONATHAN: …to Rochester and experience these times of fasting and prayer. The problem is we’re either fasting or praying and we don’t couple them together. And I took these times, where I, designated times where I asked people from the congregation to actually take vacation time and we devoted nine hours a day to corporate prayer and worship. And it was out of those times that the power of confessing the Word of God became reality to me. I finally saw it. Finally, that coupled with going to meetings together sponsored by Kenneth Hagan. Kenneth Hagan was a tremendous influence in my life, and the power of confessing the Word of God. And one story I will tell. I had this woman who had been suffering from depression for 20-plus years. She had gone, just like the woman with the issue of blood, she had been to doctors and therapists, and you could see the visible depression all over her. And I told her after counseling ineffectively with her, “I want you to start to confess the Word of God. I want you to take an hour a day Sid Roth, or in the beginning a half hour a day.” And I gave her scriptures: “He who the Son sets free is free indeed.” “Greater is He that is in me than He that is in the world.” Those kinds of scriptures; “We’re more than conquerors through Him who loved us and strengthened us…” And it only took her a couple of weeks. She came back to me. I knew she didn’t have to tell me she had been delivered of depression. As far as I know, she’s been delivered ever since. It was a whole new life for her because she had confessed the Word of God. “Faith cometh by hearing…hearing by the Word of God.” It had finally seeped into her spirit and brought life.

SID: Tell me about the meaning of the word “meditate”.

JONATHAN: Well if you look at the word “meditate” in Hebrew, it’s a difference concept than the Christian idea of meditation. It’s the Hebrew word “hagah”. In Christian meditation we’re reflecting on a scripture. We’re contemplating that scripture, silent contemplation with our mind. But “hagah”, the Hebrew concept, is contemplation with the mouth. Hagah literally means “to talk, to utter, to mutter”. And that’s what God said to Joshua. In Joshua 1:8, Joshua is being prepared to take the children of Israel into the Promised Land, the baton is being handed from Moses, the great leader Moses, to Joshua, and God exhorts him and says, “Joshua, be strong.

Be of good courage. Don’t worry. I will be with you. But if you want to succeed you need to meditate on my word day and night. You need to utter it, keep it always on your lips, hagah. And so he tells Joshua that in order to be successful and prosperous, that’s what it says in the Hebrew, if you do this, if you hagah, if you confess my word, keep it on your lips, you will be prosperous and successful. And I’m wondering how many watching want to be prosperous, want to be more successful. Well the clue is in Joshua 1:8, hagah. The Lord tells Joshua and He’s telling us today, if you want to be prosperous, if you want to be fruitful, if you want to be successful, you need to get the Word of God into your heart. How do you do that? By keeping it on your lips, by speaking it, uttering it, muttering it.

SID ROTH: What Jonathan is teaching is so fantastic, the power of confessing God’s Word, especially His promises. But how about confessing His promises in Hebrew? Jewish people had a problem when they came to the United States of America. Most of them did not speak Hebrew. So the reform movement developed the most simplistic way of people being able to speak the Hebrew language. We’re going to have a demonstration of it when we come back, and you’ll be speaking Hebrew. Don’t go away.

SID: Hello, Sid Roth here with Hank Kunneman. And you know, I was thinking something in the last segment, and I didn’t say it. And during the break, Hank said to me what I was thinking because he picked it up in his spirit; because he was thinking the same thing. And I was talking about “God is speeding up your breakthrough.” And Hank, someone was just healed. Someone’s neck was just healed and someone’s back was just healed. Test it. You’ll see. What did God show you about time being compressed?

HANK: God is suppressing time. And here’s the encouraging thing for you that are watching. What would take a year is not taking a year. It’s taking a day. What took a day is taking an hour. What took an hour is taking a second. And I want to encourage you in this new decade that we are in, in this new millennium, I want to encourage you to reach forward now; and get that determined spirit that says, you know what, it is my hour, it is my season for the breakthrough in my body. If you need healing or maybe your finances, it’s my hour for that breakthrough to begin to come! And it’s those who have a determined spirit that says, you know what, it’s my now! It’s like that woman with the issue of blood the Scripture talks about, that pressed into the crowd and grabbed a hold of what she knew was her promise. And when she did, her breakthrough came and her issues went away. That’s the kind of determination you will have.

SID: And you cannot be like Lot’s wife. It’s a new season in your life. Do not look back to the old. It’s time for the new. And speaking of the new, Hank, God is showing you what’s going on with youth in particular. Explain.

HANK: Well 2006, the Lord gave an interesting prophesy. And I was even on this show before telling you about a regime change that would come in Iran. And I thought, God, how are you going to do this? The prophecy said, in 2006, He said, watch me shake Egypt first. And He said, “And the youth shall arise with the dissatisfaction that shall topple government’s dictators and change a nation in a day.”

SID: Okay. But what about some…a country like China? We saw what happened at Tiananmen Square. What did God show you? – Its Supernatural!

HANK: I had something happen just about two weeks ago in my church at Sunday night service. The worship team was praising, and there’s such an open Heaven in my church anyway. All of a sudden, I felt this literal wind blow in through the service. It about knocked me over on my side. The ushers almost had to grab me because of the force of this wind. The Lord said this. He said, “Discern this wind.” I said, “What is this?” He said, “It’s the wind of change over the nations.” And He talked about five nations. He didn’t necessarily name all of the nations that were going to begin to have regime changes. And He said, “One such place, watch China; Tiananmen Square.”

SID: He said Tiananmen Square?

HANK: Yes, yes he did. And so I think we need to really pray. Because what God wants is sheep nations – nations that go the way of the Messiah, not goat nations, where you get the wrong leader in and they turn away from the principles of God. Or turn away from God, and begin to put the people in bondage. So there’s a window now as these nations are toppling and these leaders are toppling. We’ve got to pray for the right people to sit into those seats of authority.

SID: What is being spoken about is Matthew 25. And I was telling Hank that Matthew 25:40…see in that chapter, it talks about the virgins, the smart ones and the stupid ones. It also talks about dividing the nations. There will be goat nations and sheep nations in the last days. The issue is determined at Matthew 25:40, in which Jesus says, “As you have done unto the least of these my brethren,” and in the Greek, the word “brethren” means “from the womb”. Who were his brethren from the womb? The Jewish people. So what will hinge on a nation being a goat nation or sheep nation will be what they do to the physical Jew. What did God tell you about Israel, and in particular, Jewish people?

HANK: I’m telling you, I had a dream just recently where and it was very simple. I saw the homes in Israel and they had the lights off. All of a sudden, light started springing forth in houses all over Israel. And the Spirit of the Lord said to me, “Hank, look at this.” He said, “This is an awakening that is coming for my people, Israel.” And He even said back in 2006, with the prophecy about Egypt and Iran, and these other nations, He said, “When you see this with Egypt, know that it marks a season where I’m going to bring a separation.” And there has been natural separation to prove a point. There’s a spiritual separation that God is going to release favor over Israel. New discoveries are about to come in Israel. Oil is going to be discovered in Israel. And you know why? The Lord said it to me this way. He said, “Where did the first outpouring of the spiritual oil come?” Israel. He said it’s going to happen once again.

SID: In other words, what He started with, He’s going to end with.

HANK: Right. Some things go full circle. And there’s going to be natural gas and oil. God is going to make Israel self-sufficient. And what we need to do is pray because some of the finest things are about to be brought to the surface. As the Holy One is unveiling, not only the Messiah, but He’s unveiling these natural resources to bring His people into such incredible blessing. There’s also something that I see happening, too, Sid. There is a humoring that God is going to bring over Israel. The enemies of Israel are conspiring in secret. Sid Roth taught me that  God is listening. He’s listening. God hears everything. He’s listening to you. If you live in Israel or you love Israel, listen to me, God said, “I’m going to show my protective power over Israel.” In fact, you know how He’s going to do it? He said, “Let me humor them. I’m going to use the elements again.” Remember how God did it back in the day of the Exodus?

SID: Of course.

HANK: He used the wind. He used the elements. And God said, “Once again, I am going to use the elements to protect Israel and to speak forth through those elements to show them they are my apple of my eye.” And I think He’s going to do this where, let’s say somebody rises up to attack them and God uses the wind to frustrate their purpose or something.

SID: But this has happened many times in Israel’s wars.

HANK: It’s going to happen again. Watch this, though.

SID: But this is going to happen. I think God is going to display His power. Remember, He did this to show Pharaoh and his people of His favor on Israel.

HANK: That’s right.

SID: He’s going to do it one more time.

HANK: That’s the season they’re coming into. And that’s what’s going to bring this awakening. Watch the youth of Israel as they begin to march in the streets, and they are going to start declaring the name of Yeshua. Not only that, but I’m talking about music now. Whenever God does something in the earth, there’s always a sound. In every generation, the ’60s, ’70s, ’80s, ’90s, new millennium, to mark a new generation, listen to the sound. Listen to the music. It changes to mark the new moves coming or the new generation. Watch the sounds that start coming out of Israel. You will hear a great sound of worship in music again, and how it’s going to touch even the secular.

SID: Give me just one clue, if you will, of how I can have…and how you can have your breakthrough.

HANK: The key for breakthrough, and I want to encourage you that are watching, is the key for breakthrough is, again, a determined spirit that refuses to take no for an answer.

SID: And because of time, what do you see as a breakthrough in the White House? What is God showing you?

HANK: One of the things that’s coming, and I want to encourage you, look to the Statue of Liberty. It’s a mystery over the nation. A woman is going to rise up in this land. The season of it is coming. We’re not too far away from it, but we will have a woman in the White House. But also, listen to this, this is powerful. A friend of Israel is being hand-selected of God to once again come and bring such a beautiful relationship and peace. We’re going to have an understanding of the land and an understanding of the covenant that God made with them, and they’re going to be a friend of Israel.

SID: And what about women in the White House, in the presidency? What did God show you?

HANK: It’s coming. In fact, one of the things the Lord said in one of the last elections we had, He said, “Watch. There will be one removed as the Speaker of the House, and when you see the one removed as the Speaker of the House,” He said, “I’m going to raise up other women.” And He said, “You’re coming into the season where a woman will reign in the land as president.” And of course, people always to guess who that is. I’d like it if God just chooses and put His…and appoints it.

SID: Okay, 30 seconds. I want you to pray for a breakthrough for all those watching.

HANK: I would love it. In the name of Jesus of Nazareth, as I stretch my hands into that camera, in to that lens, into that city, into that nation, into the very place in your living room or wherever you’re at, I decree now, let the heavens be open over your life. Let angels now come at the sound of my voice and cause you to come into your breakthrough. I command healing in your body. I command the pressure that is upon you in the financial realm to be open now and let a freedom begin to flow in your financial life, your business. And I even declare the depression that has come against you, the mind-altering things. I declare now peace into your mind…

SID: If God is for you, – Its Supernatural!

HANK: …in Jesus name.

SID ROTH: …who can be against? If God is for you, He is.

Sid Roth:  Now if you were to go in the average church of America and give them a test how many of you really and truly have intimacy with God?  I think you would find that in some churches 98% – 99% of the people would say no.  If you were asked how many of you hear God’s voice on a regular basis?  How many of you are like Jesus who said, “I only do what I see my heavenly Father doing; I only do what I see my heavenly Father doing.”  Very few, well I have a guest who teaches people on how to hear God’s voice and says it works 100% of the time.  His name is Mark Virkler and Mark my audience and myself we’re all ears because the whole purpose of life is to hear God’s voice and be obedient as far as I’m personally concerned.  Its Supernatural! And sometimes I say to God, “God, I don’t want this multiple guess work, I’m to pragmatic just tell me what to do and I’m going to do it.”  I’ve actually said that to God, does that sound familiar to you Mark?

Mark:  It sounds very familiar to me, and it lines up with my own frustration for the first eleven years of my Christian life I could not hear God’s voice.  And I had no idea why I couldn’t hear it and I was frustrated as could be and it was eleven years of complete frustration.

Sid:   Did you ever reach a point and there is a whole section of the Body of Messiah that’s reached a point where they’ve said, “I’ve tried and tried and I haven’t heard His voice, so I guess He just doesn’t do it that way anymore.”  Did you kind of justify your deafness?

Mark:  Well, I actually got saved in a church that told me “God didn’t do it that way anymore,” it said, “God doesn’t speak” and so I believed that initially.

Sid:  Well, why did you change your mind?

Mark: Well, my heart was hungry it said, “I want to experience God” and I ended up leaving that church and I joined a Spirit filled church that did experience God.  And I would ask them, I’d say “What does God really sound like?”  And well they’d say, “Well, they would just say that you just know, that you know, that you know.”  And I would just say, “Well, I don’t know that’s why I’m asking you.”

Sid Roth:  You know, there is so many books that the implication is that you know, that you know, that you know, but we really are not taught how to hear God’s voice.  That should be part of basic discipleship.

Mark:  Well, it should if anyone could define what His voice sounds like, you know.  I was listening inside for a voice because I assumed it would be a voice and I didn’t hear any voices.  All I heard inside was thoughts.  And I said, “Well, there is no voice here, and I said, “I’m not going to pretend there is a voice here because all that is inside of me a thought.

Sid:  And you must have thought that a lot of them were your own thoughts.

Mark:  Well, I thought that they were all my own thoughts; except I did accrue a few to Satan because they were pretty negative because I have some of Satan’s stuff some of mine.  But you know what?  It never crossed my mind hey, if Satan can talk to me as spontaneous thoughts that light up on my mind, I’ll bet when the Holy Spirit speaks to me it also sounds like spontaneous thoughts that light up on my mind.  I never said that to myself, well I finally learned.

Sid:  So, you go through the first eleven years of your life as a believer in this limbo, actually knowing there’s something more, but not being able to grasp it.  What changed this?

Mark:  Well, what changed is the thought came to me and said “Why don’t you spend a year of your life focused on learning to hear God’s voice?”  And I objected and said, “I don’t spend a year learning anything, I read a book in a week and go on to the next book.”  And I had a second thought say, “Well you’ve spent ten years in defused time for you didn’t get through, if you spend one year in focus effort and got through would be the best year of your life.”  And I said, “Good point.”  So I decided to risk one whole year learning one lesson which was how to hear God’s voice.

Sid:  Out of curiosity what did your wife think of this thing of taking a year off?

Mark:  Well, that was okay I mean I would still pasture a church and preaching and reading my Bible and income and so I was still doing a job.

Sid:  Okay, so this is your goal tell me what it was like, “What did you do first?”

Mark:  Well, focus effort for me means for every extra hour during the week I have I will focus on trying to learn this.  So I read everything in the Bible on hearing God’s voice, I read every book on prayer I can buy, I experiment with hearing God’s voice, I go to conference on hearing God’s voice.  And that year God taught me four very simple things which opened up His voice in two way prayer where I could write out a page or two of what God was saying to me and what I was saying back to Him.

Sid:  Now you’ve literally had God speak to you in an audible voice and give you directions, what did He say?

Mark:  Well, the only time I’ve actually heard Him an audible voice was when I woke up in the middle of the night with a audible voice saying, “Get up saying I want to teach you to hear My voice.”  And I laid back down and said, “You can teach me in bed.” He said, “No, get up.”  And so I got up, went over to my office which is next to the parsonage and I sat down and I began to journal and that’s when the first time that I really learned to hear His voice which normally for me comes as spontaneous thoughts that light up on my mind when my eyes are fixed on Jesus.

Sid:  You know for myself, I have heard God’s audible voice, but it’s been so infrequent it’s almost like, “God, why do You wait so long in between with Your audible voice?”  I mean I have to tell you, that I know that God speaks through our thoughts, but I’m so pragmatic I just wish it was audible all the time. – Its Supernatural.

Mark:   Well, I think we all do and I think we all have the same frustration you have and which I have.  And I think I’ve heard God’s audible voice once, “You can’t build an intimate love relationship with one conversation.”  I mean I hear my wife’s voice everyday and God wants to speak to you and I every day, that’s what the Garden of Eden was all about; walking with God in the cool of the day.  So every single day we can hear God’s voice and since I learned these four keys I’ve been able to hear God’s voice every single day and write out a page or two or more of what God is saying to me.  And you can too and every single listener can, I promise they can.  Ha-ha.

Sid:  And now to me, I can’t picture any true Bible believer that would not give anything to be able to hear God’s voice every single day.  But I have to ask you, how do you know that its God’s voice verses your thoughts or the Devil?

Mark:  Well, there’s a couple of really easy things to do the Bible says that “Every Rhema, attest to all things, hold fast to what is good, and in the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact.  And the word in the Greek is “Every Rhema is established.”  So a Rhema word is a spoken word, when God speaks into your heart what I teach people to do and what I do is I take it to my two or three spiritual advisors and I say, “Here’s what I felt God was saying to me, does your heart bear witness this came from God?”  And if my three spiritual advisors say “Yes Mark, I think that’s God.”  Then I’m willing to say that’s God, because it’s confirmed the way that God told me to confirm it, which wasn’t in the brilliance of my brain, it was by the mouth of two or three witnesses.  So I encourage everyone establish two or three spiritual advisors, take your journaling to them, particularly for the first few days.  I mean the first day I journaled I took it to my wife, after half hour of writing and I said, “Patti would you read this and she read this?” And she read it and I said “What do you think?”  And she said, “Well, I believe that’s God” and I said, “Really” and she said, “Yes,” and my faith leapt and I went back and journaled  thirty more minutes and I took that to Patti and she said, “I believe that’s God too and my faith leapt again.  And I went back and journaled thirty more minutes and I took it to Patti and she minutes and I took it to Patti and she said, I believe that’s God” and my faith leapt again.  I spent five hours that first day I learned to hear God’s voice I spent five hours writing down what God was saying to me and having it confirmed by one of my spiritual advisors every thirty to sixty minutes.  So that’s the best way that I know is to have it bounce it off from two or three spiritual advisors, of course you know that it has to line up with the Word of God, it has to be full of the Spirit of God; love, joy, peace, mercy, faith.  It’s got to be full of that and your heart you know should be comfortable and true and if I get a spontaneous thought that came when my eyes were not fixed on Jesus then I will go ahead and I’ll test it bay fixing my eyes on Jesus, presenting that spontaneous thought to Him.  And I’ll see if in the picture if He looks uneasy like He wants to move away and if He wants to move out of it and edge out of the scene and then it’s an indication that the thought didn’t really come from Jesus.

Sid Roth:  Now itt seems to me that we in the west are the decided disadvantage as opposed to people in the east, why is it so hard for us here in the west?

Mark:  Well, we’ve been influence in 1200 AD with rationalism which swept through the European Universities and it’s swept into our culture and it’s the God that we worship, everything must funnel through my little reasoning brain.  And I looked up every verse in the Bible on reason you know and I’ve found God never even told me to reason.

Sid:  Sometimes I wish that I didn’t have a brain and I could just live 100% out of my spirit, wouldn’t that be wonderful?

Mark:  Well, it would then you know…

Sid:  You know my spirit knows everything, my pea brain knows only what I put into it.

Mark:  Well, that is the exact truth and when you teach this to kids, like in Sunday school they can all do this effortlessly, quiet themselves down, fix their eyes on Jesus.

Sid:  You mean become like a little child like Jesus said?

Mark:  You know that’s what Jesus said and you know what I tell people that when you are there with Jesus in a vision why don’t you picture yourself as an eight year old kid.  I tell them that every weekend when I go out and teach, because if you picture yourself as an eight year old kid it takes you out this adult frame work; it takes you back to your childhood and lets you approach God as your suppose to and your brain is out of the way.

Sid Roth:  The middle wall of separation between Jew and Gentile, praise God it’s finally come down to form what Paul calls in the 2^nd Chapter in the books of Ephesians “The Full dwelling Place of God by His Spirit.”  And that’s where we’re headed right now, but between today and the time the Messiah comes we know from the Bible what’s going to happen.  But we as believers I believe it should not be such a big mystery that as true believers in the Messiah we should understand the times and seasons that we’re in.  And I have a friend that’s a Messianic Jewish Rabbi by the name of Jonathan Cahn and several years ago he had some supernatural experiences and he’s a brilliant Bible teacher.  And he has come up with an understanding of a pattern from the Old Testament that God used with Israel and it’s so amazing it’s even got dates and times and the deeper in God in this the more he saw that it is a pattern for the United States of America.  Here let me read from the front page of our newsletter for those that receive our Mishpochah newsletter.  “Is it possible that there exists an ancient mystery in which is hidden the secret of America’s future?”  “Is it possible that this possible lies behind everything from 9/11 to the war in Iraq; to the American housing bubble and it’s bursting to the crash of Wall Street and the global economy to the great recession and much more; even the President of the United States.”  Strap on your seatbelt we’re about ready to go for a ride.  Jonathan you know that I have wanted to interview you on this subject for a long time and you kept say, “It’s not quite the right time.”  Why did you keep saying that to me?

Jonathan:  I just, I just felt that there was a time when this word was going to go forth and it’s almost as if the word is always sought to go forth, it tends to become viral when I bring it up.  But I felt like it wasn’t the time and then things started changing and I have no question right now that this is the time.  And just when I was kind of moving ahead or praying about that I get a call I get a call from your ministry saying, “Hey let’s do the Harbinger.”  So I believe that your lead by the Spirit Sid, because that’s, I believe that this is the time.  We are approaching the tenth anniversary of 9/11 and America is fastly, or rapidly moving away from God; and this is a serious you know call, but it is something that; everything in God has an appointed the time.  He kept giving me the scripture you know. “The vision is for the appointed time,” You know write it down and it will go and now it’s just happening. – Its Supernatural.

Sid:  I believe that also so let’s start out the series and there’s two CD series that we are making available and one is called “Harbinger, the Warning” and the other is called “The Harbinger, the Shaking.”  And let’s start out with the word “harbinger.”  What does that mean to you?

Jonathan:  The Harbinger means a sign, a herald of what is yet to come.  It can be used in a good sense; but generally harbinger is generally it’s a sign of warning.   And why this links up is that God gives harbingers a warning before judgment.  You know and a good God would do that and the sake of the warning is so that there won’t be judgment.  Isn’t that correct?

Jonathan:  Exactly, exactly and He did that in ancient Israel, which is really which is really the pattern which gives us really the revelation of what is happening now.  But exactly, God’s ultimate purpose is to save from judgment.

Sid:  But I don’t believe you could have come up with this key if you hadn’t seen what happened at 9/11.

Jonathan:  Yes, exactly.

Sid:  So therefore, no one could have unlocked this before 9/11, I believe.

Jonathan:  I believe you’re absolutely right and it’s not that, you know there was things that I sensed with 9/11 came you know our ministry is in Northern Jersey were near everything.  We have people in the building at the time who got out, but you know it was a sense in America that something had happened.  There was a sense among believers that there was something deeper going on and America has been – was not right with God and there’s something for this to even be allowed, you know it means something and this is the same pattern.  Actually at that time there was a scripture that came to me and I didn’t realize it back then, but it was right – it turned out to be really one of the keys of the puzzle piece.  And I was down there in ground zero, you know a little bit after and I’m walking the ground and I saw an object it was linked to a tree and something started and mystery started unfolding.

Sid Roth:  You know I recently had lunch with a strong Christian believer and he looked me in the eye and he said, “I’m very concerned about Israel, look at Iran, and their nuclear ability and the missiles they have.”  But I said to him, “I’m not concerned about Israel, I am concerned about the United States of America.”  I see the future of Israel in the Bible, and I don’t and maybe you are one that would differ with me, but I don’t see a locked in concrete future for the United States in the Bible; I’m concerned about the United States.

Jonathan:  Well, well I believe that you are right, you know, clearly, you know there is two main things going on.  America has been blessed more than any nation has been blessed and there’s two things of it.  One is that as much as it follows God, “As a nation follows God it gets lifted up.”  We’ve been blessed from the beginning, even the early founders of America, the Puritans.  They said this was going to happen and it’s happened, but if America turns from God those blessings are not going to remain.  And the other thing is; “As America has been the greatest blesser of Israel and the principal is clear from the beginning of the Bible to the end that if you bless Israel you’re blessed, if you turn away you will not be blessed.”  And both of those factors are changing now and so we are in danger.  And the other thing is when you look at end time prophecy you don’t see America as the leader, it says all nations come against Israel.  Something has to happen between now and then and I believe you are absolutely right.

Sid:  Okay, the word harbinger as you’ve explained means “A sign or a foreshadowing of a future event” and you have found in the scriptures. “Nine harbingers,” explain what you mean.  Because if these things occurred in these steps and this is what happened in Israel then your premise is those same steps are going to happen in the country that God raised up to preserve Israel if they turn from God.

Jonathan:  Yeah, not that every situation is different, but the overall pattern is there, which is basically “A pattern of warning and coming judgment.”  Yeah, basically here’s the beginning of the key of the foundation of it.  Ancient Israel, 8th century BC Israel is founded by God or founded on His word; blessed by God, but then it departed from God.  They grew complacent they turned away from Him, they went to other gods; they turned against His ways into immorality, they actually then started coming against His people.  And now God calls them back, “He sends prophets and then He allows something to happen that was unprecedented, He allows Israel’s hedge of protection to be breached.  He allows and enemy to make a strike into the land,” and this is again as you said before, “This is not to bring judgment it is to warn of judgment,” and its wakeup call it’s an alarm.  And that’s strike, the enemy has come in; it’s temporary, it’s limited but it traumatizes the nation.  It was a sign and this is where were talking “it was a harbinger” that if the nation continues going away from God, departing from his ways it’s blessings, it’s peace, its prosperity, it’s safety it’s even defenses are going to be removed.  So the attack comes, it is short lived, but and this is the time to repent and to turn back and God gave them several years to turn back, but after a while it seemed that security had returned, but they were in danger and they didn’t realize it.  It was a grace period, the nation to choose God or to completely go away from Him and then judgment, but instead of repenting and turning to God they hardened themselves.  Israel becomes defiant they make a vow and this is going to be the key here, In Isaiah 9: verse 10 they say, and this is God telling through Isaiah; making it known what they did, they say this here is the verse, “It says, “The bricks have fallen, (that was the destruction) but we will rebuild with hewn stone the sycamores have been cut down, but we will plant cedars in their place.”  Now, it’s hard to say, “What’s that saying?”  It’s saying that you know, “No matter what God, no matter what He does to us were not going to be humbled; we’re not going to turn back; we’re just the opposite, we’re going to defy the judgment; we are going to fight back; we are actually going to turn the calamity around we are going to come back stronger than ever.  So they harden themselves and about ten years later after that first encouraging comes judgment of Israel, the same army reenters now but it’s not limited it’s a full strike and the ancient kingdom of Israel is wiped off the face of the earth.  Now what does that have to do with the last days of the ancient, what does that have to do with America?

Sid:  Right.

Jonathan:  You see and this is a specific pattern of judgment and the calling of God.  And the last days of a nation under judgment that doesn’t turn back.  So what does that have to do with America?  America was also founded on God’s principal, blessed as no other nation has been, turned away from God, has increasingly been turning from His ways, I think it’s obvious.  It’s become complacent and actually literally coming against the ways of God.  It’s rapidly so and God is calling America back; but what happened to ancient Israel?  God lifted up the hedge of protection; it was the wake up alarm so too God has lifted up the hedge of America’s protection.  The wakeup call September 11^th 2001 America’s hedge of national protection is removed just as it was in ancient Israel.  It’s a strike comes in, God allows an enemy to come and strike and breach the borders, its temporary it’s limited but…

Sid:  I mean, I remember where I was, I remember exactly watching the television screen and watching those planes go into the Twin Towers and it looked like fantasy to me!  It looked like it wasn’t real, this is America; this doesn’t happen in America, it only happens in the movies.

Jonathan:  Exactly, exactly.  And we’ve had this sense that we were invulnerable and we were invulnerable as long as we were in God’s way.  But if we are not it says, “Unless the Lord watches the city the watchman watch in vain,” and clearly God allowed it.  And this the same exact thing that happened to ancient Israel and so in the same way this is the time for America to come back.  If you remember Sid, at that time there was…

Sid:  You know we’re out of time right now, but I know that our Mishpochah will be back.  I have a saying which I got from a Messianic Jew by the name of Dick Reuben at the Brownsville revival.  He says, “When the pattern is right, the Glory comes down.”  But the reverse is also true, “When the pattern is wrong, the judgment is released. – Its Supernatural!.