Sid: My guest Eddie James is red hot for the Messiah. Now I have to ask you this question Eddie “Your assistant told us that you spend,” because we do a lot of vetting of guests most people don’t realize it but we do.  “You spend up to 8 hours a day with the Lord.” Why do you do that?

Eddie:  Well, ultimately because I love Him I just love the Word, I love prayer, I love talking of His goodness, and I really mean that when I say that.  I am fascinated with the person of Jesus Christ with the presence of the Holy Spirit. It’s really some people you know do this because they want to be anointed for ministry or be ready to reach out to people.  Which I believe in all of that but I just love, I just…It sounds so cliché but if you fall in love with the person of Jesus you fall in love with His presence there is no other place.  That Psalm 27 for reality that says one thing “That I desire that which I will seek after that I may dwell in the House of the Lord all the days of my life to behold His beauty inquire in His temple” is truly real in my soul, that’s real to me.  That I can speak of His word, I can dig into His word all day and find that could be my fun.  You know I used to spend some time at IHOP and Misty Edwards she would spend 18 hours with God and Mike Bickel asked her “Why do you do that go watch a movie, go do something else.” She said “This is indulgence.  If I have to choose between going to have fun over there and being on my keyboard worshipping God I’d rather do that.”  And that’s the core value of my soul; there isn’t a Facebook, or Twitter, or a movie that would fascinate me more than any level…

Sid: Yeah Eddie your just normal; unfortunately we want the whole world to be normal they’re not.  But I have to ask you this question you have bumped into angels that put out fires, tell me about that.

Eddie:  Okay now this is crazy; about two or three months ago it was September we were headed from Charleston, Maine to Pennsylvania to do some ministry with the young people that I minister with. The back of our bus caught on fire.  So it’s in the middle of the night about 1:00 in the morning we’re in the middle of nowhere and we calmly bring everybody off the bus.  I have no fire extinguisher obviously aboard and I didn’t know what to do we just filled the bus up what are we going to do?  So as we’re praying about this saying “Lord make away.”  This guy just drives up out of nowhere just drives up and just drives up in this diesel looking thing just pulls over to side; get’s out, goes to the bus and puts out the fire and get’s in his truck and continues on.  Now what freaks me out about this is he didn’t say “Hi” he didn’t say “You guys okay, I’ve come to help  I saw a fire over here; it was all I could do.”  He didn’t say “Are you all good?” He just get’s out of his vehicle, goes and puts it out and gets back into his vehicle.  As while he was doing that everybody that’s with me had this strange but powerful peace just descending over our hearts; get’s back into our hearts get’s into that truck and drives off.  Everybody said “That was an angel there was no way that that could have happened; that was nothing but God that came and took care of that,” and that was wild.

Sid: Okay I want everyone listening to us right now if you are in a position for your miracle we’re going to play some Eddie James music in a second and when we finish I want you to let out the greatest shout you have every been capable of and the walls of Jericho they came down when the Jewish people shouted.  The prison in your life whatever it is it could be sickness, it could be poverty it could be children and drugs, it could be homosexuality, whatever that is that you want a breakthrough on when you shout watch what God can do for you.  Eddie tell me very, very briefly about the song “Ruach.”

Eddie:  Ruach is based on Joshua the 6^th where when they let up that shout, it was really a shout of victory over the enemy that when I looked up the word shout it had the word there as a connected to the word shout, meaning the shout of victory over the enemy.  And you find that same idea when David slays Goliath and the armies of God that had been hiding. Comes out from hiding and begins to shout a victory shout over the Philistine army.  And as you were just setting that song up I got this vision of an elderly lady grandson whose 18 years old, she’s believing for his salvation and deliverance from drugs.  And I just saw her shouting and her grandson walks into house bows his knee to Jesus Christ.  I just feel like I need to release that.  At first I was little shout with that but God said I believe the elderly grandmother going to see her 18 year old grandson come to know Jesus as she by faith begins to lift up her shout.

Sid: Eddie and I will shout with you and it’s going to be so many miracles  “Ruah.”

Eddie:   “Ruach”

Excerpt: “Ruach”

Sid: I have the Director of Morning Star Ministries Rick Joyner on the telephone. I’m interviewing him on one of the most powerful books that I have read in a long long time.  It’s one of these books that will get you hungrier for God than you are.  And the truth of the matter is your mind says you want to but you’re not doing anything about it so you need a good kick in the pants by the Holy Spirit.  Rick Joyner I think that if this book doesn’t do it nothing will what do you think?

Rick:  Well, the stories included there you know a lot of that I’m just quoting the history; it’s facts straight from the newspapers, straight from the accounts of those revivals from personal witnesses and…

Sid: But it makes me so hungry for God when I read this but you have a prophetic edge to what you’re writing you’re not just writing history you’re writing what’s about ready to happen.

Rick: Well, I do believe it is a prophetic history that is many ways are outlines or guidelines for, I believe revivals that are going to come upon America, Europe many other places in these times and that’s why I wrote them.  But the accounts themself have got to make you jealous; I mean they should provoke us to jealousy.    

Sid: Well this revival, the Welsh revival, 10,000 miles away there were some people by the name of Frank Bartleman, and William Seymour, and Pastor I don’t know how to pronounce it Smiley.

Rick:  Uh ha.

Sid: And Bartleman wrote to the human agency that God used for the Welsh revival. How in the world did Evan Roberts have time to even answer his letter?

Rick:  Well, I think he was so sensitive to the Lord because he was inundated with mail, I’m sure he had far more mail than he could even read much less answer. And he would get this one and take the time and communicate with Bartleman like that; it was one of the two major sparks of the Azusa Street revival; it is truly remarkable.  Just another demonstration of his discernment.

Sid: But if he had no communicated with him who knows if the revival would have…because he gave him advice on what was necessary to get the revival going.  You can see God’s hand on that and you’re right it had to be God for him to take the time and write a how to manual if you will.  And tell me about this fellow Charles Parham.

Rick:  Charles Parham you know was I think rightly credited by many of being the grandfather of the Pentecostal outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Azusa Street and whole Pentecostal movement.  And you know he too had a remarkable hunger for God and when he read the accounts of the way God moved in the early church he just became jealous.  And why can’t God move that way here now; and he started praying the Baptism in the Holy Spirit like the early church apostles and…

Sid: Well, it seems to me in reading your book he was constantly challenged by the great divide between what he read in the Bible and what was going on in the churches.

Rick: Oh yeah he was, and he became desperate. He didn’t turn his back on the church though he turned to God for the answers you know.  And I think that’s a big difference, a lot of people just become disgruntled and discouraged and this way and he didn’t.  He exercised his faith and said “God can do it again and God will do it again.”  And he pursued God for years before he experienced what he was seeking.  But you know I think there’s a basic spiritual principal that anything that comes to easy or too fast is usually insignificant.  And some of these like Evan Roberts, and Parham, and you know William Seymour, Bartleman these guys went through literally years of desperate search for God.  It’s because of the significance of what He wanted to pour out through them they never got discouraged.

Sid: But now there was a prayer meeting on January 1, 1901 that you and many others say was a defining moment of Christianity for the 20^th century; tell me about that.

Rick:  Well, that was the first time that it’s recorded in modern history in that and you know or in a way I guess it had to impact of someone speaking in tongues again.  And the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was evidence of speaking in tongues and it sent shock waves, you know it started with the single girl.  And it just sent shock waves throughout the Body of Christ for some reason and got peoples’ attention why don’t we do that, “Why don’t we have the same gifts that they had in the first century.”  And many many became challenged with just “Why don’t we see the same things today that they saw in the scriptures.”

Sid: Now Parham had a Bible School, and segregation was big time at that time, but there was son of a slave; a one eyed black man by the name of William Seymour. Is it true that he would go to Parham’s meeting sit outside the door because he wasn’t allowed in?

Rick:  That’s true Parham would leave the door cracked for Seymour to just sit outside, but he was so hungry and I think Parham really loved William Seymour but he was just captured in the old south segregationist mentality.  And he had what he thought was theological basis for it.  And you know he kept it until the end of his life sadly you know; I think that’s what would cause Parham to actually later even reject the great move of God that he had helped prepare the way for which too often happens.

Sid: The human problem.

Rick:   It is and it’s repeated throughout history, but Parham I think he still deserving of honor and it’s a tragic shame that this one thing kept him from really entering; it was kind of like Moses he could get to the edge but God wouldn’t let him go in the promise land.

Sid: It’s almost like Martin Luther; look at all the wonderful things Martin Luther did and then later in life he wrote all this stuff that Hitler used to inflame people against Jewish people

Rick:  Yeah, it’s a tragedy you know the real fly in the ointment. You’re right I believe we still need to learn from and honor but there are many things we want to discern and not copy, not take from others.

Sid: Okay, but I’ll tell you of all the people in the revival the one that intrigues me the most is that black man by the name of William Seymour; tell me about him.

Rick: He is one of the great men of God of all time I think that there is no question about that; you know for his hunger, for his faith, his devotion against all opposition; humiliations everything else he just would not give up in his pursuit of God.  And even you know, he spent years in pursuit of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.  It poured out Azusa Street until almost all the other members of the prayer meeting except for him.    

Sid: And he’s the leader.

Rick:  He’s the leader, everybody else gets it and he didn’t give up he was thankful for them happy and kept on his own pursuit until…

Sid: I’ll tell you what I don’t think I could have handled that Rick. (Laughing)

Rick: Great soul and he was truly one of the great souls of Christian history. You know I was asked to speak at a Divinity School over at Wake Forest University and I was carried over there.  And you know this was on old Southern Baptist School, not a Pentecostal; it was a Baptist University and they had this Hall of Faith that they had erected. The Dean of the school took me around.  He wanted to show me the only member that they had put in the Hall of Faith from the 20^th Century was William Seymour; who had the Pentecostal Revival.  They considered him one of the greatest, possibly the greatest man of God of the 20^th Century, remarkable.

Sid: What would happen at one of his meetings?

Rick: Well, anything could happen you know, there were stories…

Sid: That’s my kind of meeting but go ahead. (Laughing)

Rick: They could not have been boring that’s for sure, I mean they attracted every kind of person, the super wealthy would sit next to washerwoman, and I mean they were on a…they finally rented the stable at Azusa Street with a dirt floor.  It wasn’t dirt it was actually a dung floors like the stable the Lord was born in you know.

Sid: Oh my goodness.

Rick:  And I mean they would be on their knees on their faces you know, they would and just anything could happen.  God could use anybody in any of the meetings and sometimes William Seymour the leader would be seen sitting in a corner with a box over his head because he didn’t want to be distracted by people he just wanted to seek the Lord.

Sid: My goodness what would happen if in every city in the United States the Pastor of the First Baptist Church would on a Sunday morning put a box over his head and let anything happen that wants to happen?  I think we would have another major revival.

Rick:  Yeah, there’s and that’s the kind of a it seems like one true basic characteristic of faith of these great revivalist who sparked these great revivals or moves of God in history was they wanted God more than they cared about anybody on this earth thought.  And that’s what Paul the apostle said, “If I were still seeking to please man I would not be a bond servant of Christ.”  And I think we’ve got to be delivered of that fear of man and even the desire and getting our encouragement by how many people come to our meetings or how many people buy our books or anything else. But are we pleasing God, is He coming to our meetings.  You know when He comes I don’t believe even the best preachers are going to get the attention when He REALLY comes.  And that’s in his manifest presence and that’s what Moses was talking about.  You know he’s always with us, he abides in us; we have His Holy Spirit.  But there’s something entirely different about the manifest presence of the Lord where He really manifest Himself in His presence.  And one touch of that you don’t want anything else you know, I think that everyone who loves the truth loves good preaching, loves good books, and things like that where you’re hungry for it.  But more than everything else we signed up to get God, we signed up for him. You know when He comes I think a lot of the things that we really built our ministries on and even our churches and everything else we’re going to see them as not being that important and maybe even insignificant.

Sid: Rick we’re out of time.

Sid:  My guest, Dennis Clark, has been taught how we can walk in supernatural peace. The Hebrew word is shalom. When we walk in this peace we can’t walk in stress, when we walk in this peace we can’t walk in worry, and you can do this 24-7. Dennis you’ve been this week on the 5 “G’s” of peace: govern, guide, gather, and we were talking about the fourth one guard. Tell me a couple of testimonies having to do with guard, and what does guard mean?

Dennis:  Guard means to keep you safe; keep you secure; keep you safe in His presence regardless of external circumstances. Probably the most noticeable one is we were on a tour with 15 ministers up into the Maritimes. We stopped by a little house group and there were some people getting saved, some getting filled with the Spirit. Suddenly a Micmac Indian woman burst out into an emotional meltdown “I want more too, but you don’t understand the kind of life I lived.” She was going hysterical, and they kind of looked at Jennifer and I to go over there. So we went and less than 20 minutes we prayed her through and 5 clear healings. One she was molested as a child; she was beat by her father with a belt buckle that left scars; she was sexually molested, raped and had three abortions in her life. All 5 of those were major traumas very few people have ever had that amount of traumas in a lifetime. This woman cried out she “Wanted more of God,” but she had all of these things and we led her through in less than 20 minutes. Now all of these were major violations of her personhood, every single one of them were devastating, it would be devastating to anybody. Yet when we taught her how Christ the forgiver in her, and walked her through all 5 instances separately, the manifestation was… and she knew I could tell when it changed inside of her then we would go to the next one. All of a sudden she manifested in the room a countenance change and she says “All around me I feel the peace of God making and keeping me safe. I’ve never felt safer.” All of those were violations her manifestation was safety and violations. She jumped up and she said “I can’t wait, I want this anointing, I want to go back to the reservation.” Actually even one the situations where she saw her son, supposedly, murdered on the reservation right before her eyes.

Sid:  Hmm.

Dennis:  All of these things were heart rending, but the glow on her face, but the passion in her heart…

Sid:  But she wanted not just for herself she wanted it for everyone to be healed, and to walk in this supernatural peace. That’s what you want.

Dennis:  Yes, absolutely, absolutely.

Sid:  You know what’s so amazing to me, that leaders in congregations, pastors never even understood this. When you’ve taught this to some very well-known people, Christian television personalities, and it’s transformed their life, but it can transform anyone’s life. The housewife, a student, a businessman, what would have happened; I could talk about me let alone you, if when I was a child I learned to walk in this peace. Look at all the turmoil I could have gotten rid of.

Dennis:  This is what Jennifer and I believe. There’s going to be a generation that are going to say “What’s wrong with you people, what took you so long to deal with your stuff? Didn’t you know you could go directly to God within and have this stuff dealt with?”

Sid:  Okay were talking about the 5 “G’s” the fifth one is ground, what does that mean?

Dennis:  This is the one that is near and dear to my heart because to manifest to peace I know it is the Prince of Peace who orders and establishes. I believe that as rich of an encounter as we can have in God that there is a progressive way of practicing His presence that grounds us in the reality of it. So in other words, beautiful encounters, beautiful opportunities to impart and experience it, but the greatest truth is having it grounded and established in our hearts, and in our lives by practice, practice, practice.

Sid:  That’s why you developed this 60 day challenge.

Dennis:  Absolutely, others can do this. We’ve trained little children to do this, and quite frankly they do a little bit better than the very seasoned believer.

Sid:  Now tell me about one testimony… oh I’ve got to hear about the woman that after she got healed lost 100 pounds.

Dennis:  That was on the coast of North Carolina. Prayed an emotional healing, again not directed toward weight-loss, it was directed toward forgiving, I believe it was her mother, and wept and cried. Said “I’ve been harboring this bitterness for too long, and this is the first time I’ve ever felt peace.” Notified us later that in a

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very short period of time she had lost up to 100 pounds, and the supernatural kept happening. People she didn’t know were coming up to her and saying “I have clothes for you.” They were even supplying her with a new wardrobe in the process, and then she turned around and it was kind of like a double blessing, we saw her about a year later. She looked right at my wife Jennifer and she said “Because you’ve turned down millions God will never have you lack in His Kingdom in any way.” Nobody outside of myself knew that Jennifer had at one point in time turned down millions because she wanted a man of God, not a religious person, not money, not safety or provision or security, she wanted a man of God and she was holding out for that. So I’ve got big shoes to fill I guess.

Sid:  Is there… I know they need the course, I know were not… everything is not instant, but I believe there’s something you can pray for our Mishpochah that will dramatically change them. Would you pray that now?

Dennis:  We just pray right now that Father that the God of Peace would make Himself manifest whether you’re listening in a car, at home, or wherever you’re at. Right now that there would be the weight of His presence would come upon you. As you sense even now the weight of His glory, and the peace that surpasses all your understanding down from the gut, down from the valley absorb, it’s subjective, I don’t know the exact word, but drink it in absorb it, welcome it, open to it, yield to it. Put up no resistance to the gut and let God just penetrate you and write the message of peace and His presence, His purpose, His plan for your life on the tablet of your heart. We ask right now no matter where their at no matter how negative the circumstances are that right now there will be a supernatural peace will begin to envelope them and unfold upon them. Open your heart to make peace, and make yourself available, make peace with all people, and to pursue that peace and He will make Himself available to meet every need every need in your life. From that place of peace all of the attributes of God rise up on the inside of you according to your need.

Sid:  In this peace, Dennis, there is power there is healing. Like for instance I saw someone with something wrong with their shoulder, if you’ll move your shoulder you’ll see the pain and the discomfort is all gone. Other’s their back is being healed, all pain is leaving. Are you seeing anything as far as physical or emotional healing Dennis?

Dennis:  Yes I’m seeing rejection; I’m seeing people that have suffered their whole life with rejection. That the perfect peace of God is moving on you in such a way that it is casting out all rejection. His undivided attention and His desire to make Himself known to you to see you as the apple of His eye. He wants to give you by the Spirit undivided attention; He wants to give you Himself the affection and the attention. I see people with holes on the inside of them and it’s the way God sees, and I don’t care if your life was like Swiss cheese all that you needed and never received God wants to minister that to you right now. He wants to fill that with Himself and He fills every hole with His nature, His divine nature. You become a partaker, you absorb it it’s engrafted, drink it in right now absorb it. That was the Word that when I discipled Jennifer she kept saying “It’s absorbing, it’s absorbing I’m drinking it in, I’m taking it in.” I want you all that you needed and never received from people. I want you to drink it right in. Peace is ministering right now, supernatural peace the weight of God is ministering to mental illness right now. There are people that have been troubled and God’s peace is coming and displacing the negative dark powers that have ruled and reigned over that thought processes. His peace is blanketing and rising up on the inside of the individuals right now and bringing clarity to troubled minds. I just see multitudes of people with troubled minds receiving clarity. That’s going to be the word that’s going to describe it. Suddenly clarity, suddenly everything makes sense, suddenly this relationship with God was sufficient.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Graham Cooke and for many of you you’re familiar with his ministry.  I’ve heard about him for years and I’m so looking forward to this interview because he doesn’t know this, but I grabbed hold of his latest book and it’s called “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy.”  It was like every page he had things in there are so beneficial; Graham It’s a mentoring book that’s what this is, would you there’s something and we’re going to go out of order but it’s such an important point.  You know Mishpochah if you don’t catch anything else in this interview I want you to understand Graham’s approach with the subject called, “Grace Growers,” Graham would you explain what a grace grower is.

Graham: (laughing) “Grace Growers,” yeah I think it’s a great term to describe people that make us tired, weary, angry, who seem to approach us and catch us in moments when we are finding it difficult to represent who God really is in terms of his nature and character.  People rub it up the wrong way you know and I guess we all have those in our lives and now I’ve got sometimes I feel I have more than my share.  And so for me it just became… I wanted to find a really positive way not only of enabling me to develop at least a conversation if not a relationship with those people, but also to learn and to develop something in my own relationship with the Holy Spirit.  So I chose to see the whole situation as one where I could grow in grace and learn how to see them as God saw them so that I could actually speak in a way that could actually glorify God, and actual be beneficial to them and to myself.

Sid:  Now you gave an example of three men that took it upon themselves to tell everyone how awful you were followed you around from meeting to meeting.  It was your own fan club doing the opposite of what fans are supposed to do, your own heckling club.

Graham: Yeah, it was probably 25 years ago, I first started doing schools of prophecy.  There weren’t too many people doing them and so it was very new. You know what it’s like in the church sometimes with something new everyone’s wary and suspicious and some people I just think are unkind about the whole process of learning something new.  So I had these three guys and we privately called them the “Three Stooges” because they would find out where I was going to do a school next. They would visit that place a month beforehand, talk to all the leaders of churches and say you know just terrible things like “Don’t let your people go to this guy, he’s in the occult and he’s this, he’s that and he’s the other.”  And they would hand out leaflets beforehand. Then they would sign in to come to the event and they would outside with plaque cards and photographs and leaflets, don’t let this guy, if you have to go in there don’t let this guy pray over you, don’t let him touch you, don’t let him prophesy over you.  And then they would come in put all their placards at the back of the hall and sit right in the front row right in front of the lectern and they would have note pads.  They would take notes of everything I said

Sid: For the purpose of using it against you.

Graham:  Absolutely.  Then they had a news letter they put out all the mistakes they felt I made and everything.  So remember this went on for months event after event, after event. They really felt they had a call from the Lord to expose me, unmask me or do something horrendous.  So I remember crying out “So Lord please kill them, make it slow.” Thankfully He didn’t answer that prayer.

Sid:  (Laughing)

Graham: Then this had gone on for like two years Sid and it was just horrible and we were in this extended time of fasting and praying saying Lord “What do we do with these guys you know?”  And then one night I had a dream which changed everything and in the dream I tend to have dreams that are usually revelatory where I’m in the Throne Room and the Lord is sat on the Throne and I’m sat on arm of His throne with my legs over His lap.  And usually our heads are together and we’re talking, so my dream starts out this way and the Lord just said to me, “So would you like to see something?”  So I said, “Sure.”  And an angel kind of wheeled in this huge block of marble that must have been 6’ tall 4’ wide 3’ deep. The Lord said, “What do you think about that?”  And I said, “It’s the most beautiful piece of stone I’ve ever seen.”  And He said, “Would you like to see something else?”  And I said, “Yeah.”  And then it’s like the Lord Jesus walked into view and stuck his finger a quarter of inch into the marble and just began to trace the outline of this figure, of this person.”  And when He’s finished He turned and I remember Him smiling kind of a slow smile and faintly mischievous and walking out of shot. The Father said to me “So would you like to see that made?”  And I said, “Yeah,” and so He gave a command and just three pairs of hands with a hammer and chisel in each hand just came and just began to chisel this outline of this figure to make this statue.  And the Father said to me “You know Graham the work will go much faster if you encourage them.”  And so I just began to speak out and to bless you; all power to you and that kind of thing.  And the Father’s laughing and saying “No, no you’ll have to be much more stronger than that.”  And so I began shouting, eventually I’m standing on the arm this throne with my hand on top of God’s head.  And I’m shouting, I’m pointing my finger, blessing, power, strength and all around me everyone’s laughing, there are angels. One angel on the floor in particular is crying with laughter and he’s beating is wings like beating the floor.  And it’s just laughter it’s just absolute pandemonium everywhere, and then eventually it’s finished.  I remember thinking down and being absolutely exhausted in my throat you know because I was shouting actually at the top of my voice and then the Father said, “So what do you think” and I looked to the statue and it’s so beautiful Sid I start to cry and I said “Lord it’s astonishing.” He said, “Yeah that’s exactly how I see you and I said “Really.” and He said, “Yeah, that’s what I making you into;” and then He said, “Now would you like to thank the sculptures” and I said “Yeah, sure that would be great.”  And out from behind it popped these three men.

Sid:  Oh no.

Graham: They had been following me around and I looked and I remember I shouted so loud, “Ah,” that I woke myself up.  And suddenly I’m in my bedroom, I’m shouting out loud; my wife is saying “What, what,” I’m just I’m almost incoherent I saying “The stooges, God statue, me; I know what they’re doing in my life.”  And suddenly it popped in my head, “Son they’re your grace growers I’ve sent them to turn you into someone remarkable.”  And then it’s like I had a download so I got out of my bed and went downstairs and I wrote for half an hour.  And that’s how this whole thing of grace growers just popped out of this dream I had.  (laughing)

Sid:  Graham I’ve been studying a bit about what you’ve been teaching and you have a different paradigm for a lot of things.

Graham:  Yeah.

Sid: You have a different paradigm for the purpose of a Christian, of salvation, for I mean the average Christian when they think of salvation they think of someone grabbing someone getting them to a Billy Graham meeting.  Letting them say the prayer of salvation and then finding someone else to do it, totally different paradigm.  You have a different paradigm for what church is suppose to be like.

Graham: Yeah.

Sid:  You have a different paradigm for what prophesy is supposed to be like.  How long have you been like this?

Graham: I think for me it’s just been a great journey, it’s been very painful at times but it’s just I think everyone is on this wonderful journey deep into the heart of God.  That’s where we’re all going that’s our destination.

Sid: There is nothing I want more and I believe our listeners there is nothing they want more than deeper intimacy with God.  That’s why I’m so glad that I have got a wonderful new mentoring tool it’s your latest book “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy.”  But even though that’s what it does it really could just as easily be, the title could be “Approaching the Heart of God.”  But tell me what you’re trying to accomplish in this book.

Graham: Well, I think this is my premise for life in the Spirit really, what if the gospel is such incredible news that it’s almost too good to be true?  What if the gospel is such an amazingly brilliantly wonderful news that it almost borders on fantasy?  What if like the only way that you could really connect with a God who does things for us or even beyond our capacity to think and what is that?  For me that would be dreaming, it would be imagination. What if God is like so astonishing that He can give you a quality of life that’s actually beyond your ability to imagine or understand?  So with that as a premise for life all of my kind of teaching and writing over the years has been predicated on that thought and that the only way you could talk about God is in superlatives. He’s astonishing, He’s amazing, He’s wonderful, He’s brilliant, He’s majestic.  So whatever I’m writing whether it’s approaching this book “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy” I’m really looking to put people in touch with the hearts of a true Father who intends to be magnificent toward us.  And so when we actually speak out of His heart in prophecy that is what we are doing, we’re putting people in touch with this wonderful Father figure who knows everything about us and totally loves us, and is deeply committed to us and to our journey.

Sid: My guest Theresa Griffith Hurlbert I’m speaking to her from her home in Northern California.  We’ll hear from her husband Jeff, but on yesterday’s broadcast we found out that God uses you to play an instrument.  How many different instruments do you play an instrument; how many instruments do you play?

Theresa: Twelve.

Sid: And when you play the instrument preplanned and you literally prophesy through the music, and then you can have an interpretation with English words prophesied through the music.  That sounds fascinating; what is even more fascinating to me is how God is using it to heal people emotionally, physically, spiritually; people with such things as ADD, or autism, or insomnia, high blood pressure, many physical diseases are being healed.  You know what I’d like to do today, Theresa I would like you to prophesy over the air with one of your instruments; could we do that now?

Theresa:  We sure can.

Sid: Mishpochah I believe that there will be healing that will come forth even though it’s going to be whatever God wants I believe the anointing is so strong that many of you will be physically healed if you do that now Theresa.

Theresa:  This is a Native American flute I’ll be using. It’s called the eagle flute and then when I finish playing I’m going to pick the phone back up and sing the interpretation.

Sid: I can’t wait.

Theresa:  Alright here we go; Theresa Hurlbert playing a Native American Flute and singing the interpretation.  Singing: I will comfort my people; I will comfort My Bride; I Am coming to rescue you the day of vengeance has begun.  Take heart, take courage I have heard your cry.  I will answer you I will rescue you I will heal your life.  I will show you My love; I will manifest My love; I will show you My mercy like you’ve never known before. 

Sid: Theresa I heard something Hebraic something coming out of that instrument you prophesied and you said My people I know that God has those that are grafted in but I felt you were speaking to Jewish people.  I felt that you were prophesying to Jewish people in other words I could hear it in the music.

Theresa: Yeah, I did too and I didn’t plan it.  As soon as it started coming out of me I went “Wow, that sounds Jewish.”

Sid: Now we’re going to be offering your instrumental “Bliss” but tell me about “Lover of My Soul” we’ll offer it also.

Theresa:   Okay, “Lover of My Soul” is a love song between the Bridegroom and the bride, “the Song of Songs” and I chose a friend whose voice is so tender, the voice of the Bridegroom. We just did love language back and forth and we just started and went for the instruments.  And we have had phenomenal testimonies about people when they have listed to it.  One lady was just led to the Lord by a friend of mine; she was Hindu. My friend played “Lover of My Soul” for her and she said “Oh, Theresa speaks Hindi.”  And my friend said “No.”  and she said “Well, she is.”  Well there was a section where I was singing in tongues and she is saying “Well, the Lover of your soul and He’s here, He’s here.”

Sid: The other thing I get is there is such stress in the world in circumstances just being human and life and it brings a supernatural peace.

Theresa: Yeah.

Sid:  Give me one of your testimonies from a live concert or one of the CD’s.

Theresa: I would have to say, and this will be outside of Christian testimonies, but this is so interesting because I was doing a concert in Australia. A physic came an hour early and asked permission to be let in because she heard my music heals people.  And she had a sick baby and I think the baby was maybe 6 months old; so let her in and she said “Theresa must play over my baby.”  As I was praying in the back I said “Oh Lord please show me what’s wrong with the baby but He didn’t He just said “Trust Me.”  So I just always go by what I see, like I see visions during the concert.  So I played over the baby’s head and just blew this flute over the baby’s head; I began to sing in tongues, sweet tongue it sounded like it was just beautiful language.  And then afterwards she called me and said “I have to tell you my son he had a brain aneurism and need surgery this week but after you played over him he was healed and now he doesn’t need surgery.  And my husband said to me, “Oh wasn’t it lovely she didn’t know we were Irish and she sang a gaily blessing over the baby.”      

Sid: Oh my goodness, now did you have a chance to witness to her about the Lord?

Theresa:  I sure did. So I have an open door to continue with step two when I go back to that area.

Sid:  A lot of Christians don’t understand this but God heals non-believers as a sign to get them to be saved.  I think that it’s fascinating when God heals a non-believer.

Theresa:  Well it says “His kindness leads us to repentance,” you know. So that’s how He draws and He woos, and He knows those that belong to Him.  So we call her a pre-Christian.

Sid: I got you but among Christians how many Christians’ have insomnia, that have high blood pressure that have a lot of stress.  Are you getting many reports of people being set free from listening to your music?

Theresa:   We are because my music is used in the healing rooms all over the world and then also personal use. So many reports even tumors disappearing and cancer being healed; like I said a lady got up out a wheelchair once.  All kinds of different things, Three different reports of deafness being healed so it’s very exciting and it just brings so much joy to me that my pain of my past is redeemed.

Sid: Well, we’re going to get into that on tomorrow’s broadcast but I also understand you had a house you call it My Father’s House in which people came to be healed and many would supernaturally hear music.  Did you ever hear that music where no one was playing anything?

Theresa:  You know I did I heard it like 3 times and other people reported it but I didn’t understand I thought there must be someone playing music outside and I would go outside and it would stop.  So with your busy life you just don’t really think things through and then I had this young lady come from Australia and she was ill and she almost died on the trip on the way, but when she got there she began to hear music every night and she heard different instruments every night.  And then finally the last night the twelfth night her parents heard the same music, the same instruments she was hearing.  And several nights later I stayed in the house because I wanted to hear it again and I did it was like an orchestra beautiful and I thought maybe someone left an alarm clock on a radio station then I realized that it was the angels and I stayed still and after about five minutes it faded out.

Sid: Well you know I was at a church where I heard the most beautiful shofar blast but no one was blowing the shofar; they tell me that they’ve heard that other times in that church.

Theresa: Wow.  

Sid: It’s why should we think that that’s so strange; it’s natural in the supernatural realm.  Mishpochah we’re making two of her best CDs available to you.  These are CDs she goes in a studio and has no agenda but to worship God.  One is from the Song of Solomon, and the other is the one that so many people are getting healed of different conditions.

Sid: Guess what Mispochah the anointing, the presence of God is pouring through your tape-recorder, pouring through your radio right now because God’s up to something special. We’re talking on an area that is so important to God that He not only prophesied this in the Old Covenant through Joel but He Prophesied this in the New Covenant in the Book of Acts. He said “In the last days (which we’re part of right now) God is going to pour out His Spirit and we’re going to have dreams and visions.  I got a hold of a book called “Dreams and Visions” by Jane Hamon; Jane is the Pastor, and her husband, of Christian International Family Church in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida.  And many of you may be familiar with her father-in-law Bill Hamon who is really a father of many, many prophets and many are familiar with the CI, Christian International Organization.  But this is perhaps the most simplistic yet practical book but there’s an area where we’re talking about yesterday Jane that there’s a great deal of confusion.  In the New Age they have books and they say “This is what you’re dream means.”  And there are things I understand that when I dream about a house it has a particular meaning but you do something I love in your book. What you say is that different symbols have different meanings to different people and there for that’s why one person can’t interpret another person’s dream just based on what these symbols mean.

Jane:  Right, I don’t think that we can just dream and then go look up the symbols in a book and plug in a meaning that really cuts the ministry of the Holy Spirit out of the interpretation process I think.  I think that we have to understand that symbols really are one of the most basic languages that we really can’t even read the scriptures without understanding symbols we understand symbols in our day to day life when we see certain symbols on a road side.  Or in a mall we understand we have to deal with but in the scriptures we see Jesus symbolized; we see Holy Spirit symbolized; we see Satan himself symbolized in many many different ways.  So I think it’s important that when we dream we aren’t just plugging something in without understanding how it got there.  For example just say for example Sid that I had a dream about a dog and you had a dream about a dog. And just say for example that I really loved dogs and you really didn’t like dogs.

Sid: Well, you’re being prophetic right now, no I love dogs as long as I don’t have to take care of them, but go ahead.

Jane: (Laughing) But that symbol would actually mean two different things to two different people based on their life experience, is that right?

Sid: Of course.

Jane:  Okay, now if I were to take that back to the scriptures and I was to say “Now say I had a vision of a lion, according to scripture what does a lion represent? Well, we have Jesus, the Lion of Judah but we also have Satan as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour and we also have the believers the saints, the righteous who are bold as a lion.  And so you see that same exact symbol being used to describe Jesus, to describe Satan, and to describe saints.  So you can’t just say “Lion represents xyz” you have to listen to what the Holy Spirit is saying in that regard.  However, I think that living in a western world we’ve become very accustomed to not thinking in a symbolic way.  The people of the eastern cultures they think symbolically and they use symbolism in their day to day life. But as we begin to learn to read the scriptures, as we learn to look at the pictures that are seen in the scriptures, we can begin to develop an understanding of what the symbols actually mean.  For example you brought up the symbol of a house.

Sid: Right.

Jane:  When I dream about a house number one I look at is it my house?  What’s happening inside that house.  Jesus used that house to represent a man’s life. He said “It’s like the man who built his house on the rock verses the man who built his house on the sand.”  Well, what is He talking about?  He wasn’t talking about where what real estate we build on, He was saying “What are you building your life on?”  What are you building your life on?  So the house actually can represent an individual’s life or it could signify a time in your life, for example I used to dream about my grandmother’s house and these were things that God wanted to speak to me about promises, generational promises or generational curses that needed to be broken.  The people that were in the house, my families, things of that nature.  Look at what’s going on inside the house and I think that that’s one of the ways you can approach that symbol.  The symbol of people is where many times people will actually miss it.  They will have a dream about their boss, or they’ll have a dream about their pastor, or their husband and they’ll immediately assume that that person is literally that person in their dream.

Sid: I’ll tell you as a new believer I did that and I would get so afraid that something would happen to someone I loved not realizing it was not that person; that person represented something.

Jane:  Exactly right, people can be symbols and I think that if people can just remember that one little lesson about symbolism it will keep people out of a lot of trouble. (Laughing) because people can actually be symbols.  For example maybe your pastor is a symbol of how you respond to authority, maybe it’s how you respond to God because God has delegated that person as a spiritual authority. So God maybe using a dream that you had where your pastor is speaking to you and it’s actually God trying to get through to you on something.  Or maybe you have a dream where you see some political figure doing something wrong, maybe you don’t really have a trust in authority, maybe you have trust issues when it deals with authority like that.  But what I encourage people to do when it comes to the symbols of people is look at some of the…what are some of the outstanding characteristics when you think of that person that come to mind.  Maybe God is using that to symbolize that as something that God wants to deal with you in your own life.

Sid: You know this is really important stuff Jane that most believers go their whole life and don’t have a clue about.

Jane:  It really is and I think that if we can understand just some of the basic principles of interpreting a symbol some of the basic principles of understanding how God speaks symbolically to us.  Then it open up a whole new understanding of not just of the realm of revelation that God is speaking to us by his Rhema, or revelatory, word to us but it actually opens the scriptures up to us more understanding that as we study a symbol we can study it and study it and continue to gain understanding and revelation.

Sid: Now can Satan give us a dream and if so how do we know.

Jane:  Well, I think that number one I don’t think that the righteous need to be afraid of Satan giving us bad dreams. Okay I went through a season where I was tormented by dreams, but I will say this not every nightmare is from the devil okay.  In Genesis chapter 20 God gave Abimelech a nightmare when he had taken Abraham’s wife Sarah into his palace. Remember Abraham’s told a half lie and then God gave Abimelech the dream and said “You’re a dead man,” this is not a good dream, this is not a good dream you could even say that it was a nightmare that stirred Abimelech and got him back on the right course.

Sid: It saved his life.

Jane:  Exactly it saved his life and it saved the destiny of a nation that God was birthing through Sarah.  So God may actually use a disturbing dream to get us back on course.  Job chapter 33 says “I’ll speak one way and then I’ll speak another and then I’ll talk to you in a dream.”  (Laughing) and you know to get through to you so that I can remove the walls of pride and save your life from falling into the pit.  And ultimately that’s what God’s after, but the devil can come in and bring tormenting and fearful dreams. I went through a season where I was very tormented in dreams and God had to show me the root of that thing in my life so that I could receive deliverance from the Holy Spirit so that I could be set free.  And even now there’s people that are being tormented, people that are listening to this right now that are being tormented in their sleep, and in the name of Jesus in the name of Yeshua we break the stronghold of that spirit of fear off of your life and release to you the peaceful dreams that come by the Holy Spirit.

Sid: You know as your speaking in a prophetic word, can all the gifts of the Holy Spirit operate through dreams?

Jane:  I believe so, I believe that well think about it what happens when we go to sleep at night, does the Holy Spirit clear out until the morning? Does He take His gifts of the Holy Spirit that He’s given us to operate in the day time, does He take those with Him when He goes?  I don’t believe so I believe the Holy Spirit abides with us throughout the night season as well. And so the same gifts that we operate in during the day can actually operate in our sleep in our dreams as the Spirit of God is moving upon us.  I have a prophetic gift and I see things prophetically quite often.  In dreams I have gifts of discernment where I’m discerning either angels or the works of the enemy, and I see things in my dreams on a very frequent basis out of the gift of discernment that God has given me to walk in during my waking hours.

Sid: You know you talk about in your book about some of the corruption that came into the early church which in some of these Greek philosophers.  Explain that.

Jane:  Yeah, the Greek philosophers you know basically they started out teaching that we could rely on human reasoning, the senses, or the spirit realm to be able to gather valid information.  But then they came along later and determined that the only way that we could really determine true valid was through reason and through our five senses, and they completely cut out the realm of the spirit as being a valid receptor of valid information. And so that’s kind of where the whole process of our western civilization of really neglecting the understanding of the spiritual power that comes or information that comes through the spiritual means.

Sid: But you know we’re in a period of restoration of all things and I’m so glad that the supernatural of God is being restored…

Sid: I’ll tell you what I just got interrupted there’s such a strong presence of God in the studio.  I know that as you listen to our discussion I’ve got Michael and Cyndi Hinson in the studio.  We’re discussing their brand new book “To Heal the Heart.”  I know that the anointing is so strong that many of you are going to have healings….I’ve heard this again it’s so strong there are people anyone that has pain in their back will bend over, bend over and you’ll see you are free! The pain is gone in Jesus Name; there’s a pain inside of people’s hearts. This is where you are going to get freedom.  Michael, why did you write the book “Healing the Heart?”

Michael: I got so touched and dramatic when the Lord came and showed me parts of my heart.  He led me in basic truths that I was so incredibly simple.  The people can get free with such ease that it’s startling; they can get free from the negative effect of other words.  Things like loneliness, depression, anxieties, fears, addictions, abuses see all of those are so easy to change and God comes through and touches people miraculously.  The worlds made it complicated to get touched in these areas; the simple truths in God’s word.  And we wrote this book and when you apply them your life’s different.

Sid: For instance you teach in this book something called faith and that’s a very important thing, but it’s so simple.

Michael: Oh yeah, we have things that are completely different aspects some people call it revolutionary.  People who are suffering or going through problems or they’re life doesn’t have all the fruit in it; sometimes we don’t have a full understanding of the basic principles of God.  Things like faith and love you know if I tell you the word white but you see ivory and in your thinking then from that point on every time I mention white you’re going to have a different image than I do.  And many people have different images in what love is and some of the key elements which are the foundation principals of God.  The Bible says that “Without faith it is impossible to please God.”  We know we need it but do we really know what it is; do you know how to get it?  Do you know how to use it; do you know what its offices are?  Do you know what the most powerful forces of the Kingdom of God is and how to apply it in your life? I used to think it was some miracle so far out that I had to reach out and get it; I did everything I could to try to find it. I used to think that if I didn’t have this faith I wasn’t going to be the man of God God called me to be.  So I was in constant search of something and when the Lord visited me…

Sid: So and then people like that your fasting 40 days, your reading the Bible nonstop, you’re meditating of the Word.  You know all these are wonderful things but they’re not going to get you what you’re after.

Michael: Not when you find the simplicity of it; if you have to work hard towards it… Now we have to work toward keeping our heart set towards the Lord but if you have to work hard to gain something then maybe it isn’t exactly what God has for you.  Maybe we have gone about the wrong way because everybody that’s been a Christian for a short period of time the things of God are extremely simple.  Every time you get a revelation from the Lord you realize how incredibly simple this is.

Sid: Oh that’s why Jesus said “You have to become like a little child to even enter the Kingdom of Heaven.”

Michael: Oh, absolutely very simple, words like faith I was taught “The substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen.”  Hebrews 11:1.  We were all taught that, but you know that’s not the definition of faith it’s a characteristic of faith.  A definition of faith is Hebrews 11:6. “That anyone that wants to come to God must believe He exists.”  Faith is simply believing, now Hebrews 11:1 is a great characteristic of faith it’s the fulfilled nature of faith.  I had a daughter that wanted to go to a college out in California; we didn’t have the funds at the time for her to go. And she knew that she was supposed to go there. She prayed earnestly and felt in her heart that she was supposed to go and one day she was holding the check for that college.  What she was holding was the substance of what she had hoped for; she was holding the evidence of what she had not seen.  Hebrew’s 11:1 is the fulfilled nature of faith, and then when Paul wrote it then He went to talk about the patriarchs and what got fulfilled in their life; the definition of faith is Hebrew 11:6 and that is simply believing. If you’re riding in your car right now you don’t have to muster up faith you have it; if you put on brakes that stop light you already have faith the car is going to stop. It’s no more complicated than that you are going to stop.  And if you’re in sitting in a chair right now before you sat down did you pick that chair up and turn it over and look at the legs and make sure that it will support you?  And then when you put it down did you ease yourself into that chair, leaned back slowly to make sure that it held you or did you just sat down.  Well then if you sat down you applied faith, you have faith; he didn’t say “Guys you didn’t have faith.”  Well each man has been given a measure of faith.  When Jesus was going in the water and the storm came up the disciples said “Master aren’t you worried we’ll drown?”  And He stood up and said and He said “Listen,” he didn’t say “Why don’t you have faith.”  He said “Where is your faith?”  Our faith has to be applied to something.  We can apply our faith to the things of God or apply them to the world.  We can put our faith in Jesus and in the Word and what it says and the blood of Jesus; we can put our faith in our finances; we can put our faith in our medicines, we can put our faith in many other things besides the Kingdom of God.

Sid: Cyndi tell me about Charlene.

Cyndi: Charlene was a Christian woman who worked in a bank and there weren’t too many other Christians around.  And so the atmosphere in the bank was a little rough for her on a daily a basis, but she knew that’s where she was supposed to be.  She began to pray that God would change the atmosphere and when I say that I mean that you know that there would be others that would begin to receive a revelation to accept Jesus and in that way the atmosphere in the office would change.  But as she prayed about and time went on there was an incident that happened at the bank; she was responsible for putting money in the vault as were other people at the bank.  One day after she had been in the vault some money was missing, a large amount; her superior deducted that it must had been Charlene, she was the last one in the bank about that time and so she must had been the one that took it.  So she accused her of stealing the money from the vault.  Well and investigation occurred, you know it was a big mess as you can only imagine. She did not do it, she knew that she didn’t do it; it was really no way for her to prove her innocence.  So as she waited and they did the investigation, her superior was very ugly with her, every day as she faced her she was very slanderous to her face.  She pressured her greatly, she tried to get her to admit that she just did it “Wouldn’t it be easier on you and everyone else if you just admit that you did this; it would be behind us and we could move on.”  But she was not going to bend under that pressure, she was sure that she had not done it.  Eventually there was some leaks to something that was going on so there was an article in the paper that she was under investigation which caused it to be a bit uncomfortable for her in social circumstances.  Well, as her children in school began to get ridiculed by it. Eventually I don’t know if anyone has ever been under stress or pressure similar to this but it became so strong that her friends began to back off, it was too hot to handle so they kind of abandoned her in her hour and need and she felt that she was standing alone.  But she kept on seeking the Lord and she still had a peace about that she was supposed to be in that job.  She went in every day, she didn’t have the same responsibilities as before but she continued on.  Well eventually the transport company came forth as the guilty party, they had made a mistake and an error. They had not wanted to accept the responsibility for it because they didn’t want to get in trouble so they kind of sat back and waited for the bank to come and say that they found the error and they would act surprised or whatever.  But the irony in it is that Charlene’s the one that was responsible for checking up these types of errors and she had not investigated that as a possibility because she was convinced that Charlene was the guilty party.  When it was all said and done and Charlene’s name was cleared she kind of flippedly walked up her her boss did and said to Charlene “Well, sorry it was a mistake” and turned around and walked off.  Well Charlene followed her behind her and went into her office shut the door and her bosses eyes got real big because she just knew that “I’m in for it now I have given this woman trouble over the past few months and here she was innocent all this time and she just knew she was fixing to get just attacked from one side to the other.  Instead Charlene looked her in the eyes with almost tears in her eyes, she just compelling said, “Listen I love you and I forgive you.”  When she did it just took down all the defenses and her boss began to cry and weep under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and she gave her life to the Lord.  And before the end of that week was over I think that four or five at least of the other employees became born again because of the testimony of Charlene and the witness that she brought forth through her actions and the way she handled herself through this whole entire time.  So she got the answer to her prayer, God changed the atmosphere in the bank.  But it didn’t.

Sid: It was not the way that she wanted it.

Cyndi: That was not what she was thinking, it was really wonderful because it strengthened her through it.  It was not was not what she expected but she got something out of it as well, it strengthened Charlene but at the same time it was a witness to those. It was a lasting effect on those around her that saw her go through this and how she handled herself.  And that is the testimony that we all have how we walk out our daily lives, how we…You know I asked someone once said, “We may be the only Bible that someone ever reads. Our lives are supposed to be living epistles as we walk through this daily life. And if you don’t have the simple truths or you’re not sure of what they are, if you don’t have a revelation of them you can’t exercise them in life.  And like Charlene did she was able to stand in that and believe God that He was going to bring her through because she trusted Him.  He was going to bring her through this, no matter what it looked like she held on to that.  He was faithful, he never lets you down if you believe in Him and you believe the He’s able because He is.

Sid: And there’s some people going through it now that are listening to us and as you even heard the story of Charlene. It’s so refreshing to get teaching that’s pure scripture and it came from a broken heart.  Michael had a confrontation in which God showed him his heart and from that broken heart came this teaching.  And many of you are going to know what it is to be free, it’s so wonderful to be free; you don’t have to just control, free.

Sid: You know my guest is Dr. Gary Whetstone, and Gary and I we’ve known each other a long time. We have friends that are prophets and we read the newspaper and we see that things are not going to be the same in the United States.  We see what’s going on with the economy; we see what’s going on in every arena of life it appears to be shaking right now. Some people are storing food, others are storing guns, other are storing are money, others are buying gold and silver.  I recommend people do whatever God directs them to do, but a lot of them that are doing this Gary are doing it because of fear that we’re living in the last days. What would you say to these people that are so fearful?

Gary:    You know what the thing that God has spoken in Jeremiah 29:11 He says “For I know the plans that I have for you declares the Lord, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you a hope and a future.”  If you think about every other plan that is induced to create a false security.  False securities is one of the greatest instruments of the enemy to trust in the arm of the flesh.  If you think that gold is going to be a secure place, you are greatly, greatly forsaken because it says “Gold will fail.”

Sid: Well, you know what, I think a lot of people are putting these things and making them their god rather than God their God.

Gary:  Absolutely and because of the false imagery and because of the evil imaginations. You think about it, God’s commanded us in II Corinthians 10 verses 3 – 5 it says “To pull down imaginations.”  He says “To cast down every high thing, every stronghold and imagination that exalts itself against the knowledge of God.” Satan wants to get our faith and fear is one of the greatest tools the enemy uses to get it.  He creates an attack of a bump on your body, next thing you know you’re thinking “Oh, I’ve got skin cancer,”  You end up having a lay off or a cut back in your employment, and you think “Oh, my god I’m not going to have any more money.  Well, the fact of the matter is God’s just setting you up for promotion, He’s given you exactly what Jesus said He does when you’re going to bring forth more fruit, He’s cutting the tree back so it’ll be pruned.  He said “I’m the vine, you’re the branches.” He said “How’s this works is “The Father’s husbandry He trims the branch but what the enemy does is interpreted it as a fear and then make us look at some natural way, or some imagination of our mind that we can trust in.  Trust in gold, trust in our education, trust in some favoritism of somebody that is able to get us a job rather than “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding.  In all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths.”  The greatest crippling affect that takes place in the Body of Christ is the pictures that take place in our mind.  In the book I’ve written called “Make Fear Bow” deals with how to identify these evil imageries. How to see what has been set up that cause the mind to induce, perceive and conceive a way in which I am going to be limited.  We know that God didn’t give us a spirit of fear, we know that we do not have the spirit of bondage again to fear.

Sid: You know Gary I met some people that I think are so gifted to speak publicly for the Lord, but they’re afraid to get behind a microphone and they’ll never going to find out they’re so gifted.

Gary:  If they don’t put that fear under their feet they will never know the Almighty God within them.  And I’m speaking to you right now that are listening, this day there is anointing of the Living God to break the yoke of fear, break the imageries over the mind.  Break the torments, some of us live in a mindset where our families that have diseased therefore we know that we are going to die of it. How do you know that you’re going to die of it, because somebody said you’ve have signal going off in your DNA?  No, you know you’re going to have long life, God is going to satisfy you and show you His salvation.  You know that God is giving you the capacity the vision of God to step up and stand out and to speak out with the word of God.  This is God’s time in your life to put everything that’s been assaulting, acknowledging, and obstructing the word of God in you and bring it down in the Name of Jesus we have that power.  We are endowed by God not only through His nature but through the Name of Jesus to be able to cripple and to notify every principality and power of the air that I am coming forward into my future, God is favoring me to fulfill every promise He has manifested in His word and God’s nature is going to perform every word He’s spoken. There is no fail with the God that I serve.  That’s the life we life, we do not live a life that is crippled and bound by the appearances of things.  We can release our self from the self-dependencies.  We’re not set here to repeat our past, we’re not bound to the enemy to live under the grip of financial duress and fear of somebody saying “The Middle class is being wiped out.”  Who called me “Middle class, I am the head above only and not beneath.  I never was part of the middle class, I am part of the highest class that God has out of the Living God a royal priesthood.

Sid: (Laughing)

Gary:  We have let the voice of politicians, the voice of economic doom and gloom, the voice of fear and terror and torment and lack and want become a constant in our life and God has ordained us to triumph in victory in the mighty Name of Jesus.  (Praying in tongues)  For the word of the Living God has come today to open your eyes to see, to open your ears to hear, to endow your heart with power. Impel you in action and move out to do what you’ve not done.  For the word of the Lord is within you and strength and power to do the exploits set before you.

Sid: So what limitation does someone have that your speaking to right now, what limitation do they have?

Gary:  I’m watching it right now, I’m watching people afraid to speak and step out in their financial factor, it’s God’s time to break the bands of it that financial grip that that employer has had.  The torment of your education saying you can only earn this much, the fear of watching right now, fears in family, fear that we’re not going to see restoration in our sibling in our relationships, fear that our children are bound and going into rebellion, we can’t see them delivered.  Jesus…

Sid: What about fear of divorce?

Gary:   Oh, the fear that I’ve broken it so bad that I can’t see restoration, “Perfect love casts out all fear.” We are in doused by God with a supernatural ability to conquer the atmosphere around people’s lives.  Sid if people know the authority they have in Christ Jesus they will rule the atmosphere; they will subdues the tormenters that are even speaking to their spouse and shut the enemy up and the spouse will not be hearing the enemy.  That’s our authority.

Sid: But wait are these going to be bad times for people living in the last days where the economy is collapsing, diseases running rampant, families are being destroyed; is there really hope?  I mean are these worst days for believers?

Gary:  These are not the worst days, these are best.  We shine in over oppression; the church comes forth and shines the brightest light in the great darkness that exists when the oppression is the most ominous is when Christ shines the brightest. My beloved brother and sister that are listening today I’m speaking to you no matter what the darkness, no matter what the terror, no matter what the torment, no matter what the fear; the Christ Almighty in Power, Wisdom and Love in you is greater.  Do not ever let him whom is within you become restricted by anything outside of you.  Your made more than a conquer through Him who loves you.

Sid: Your listening from a man that has tested God’s word and made fear bow in every arena of his life.  I mean when you get a death sentence from a doctor there’s probably no more fearful thing than somebody can get but you’ve had two death sentences from doctors.

Gary:  That’s right

Sid: Not counting all the other things you’ve gone through.  And if God would have fear bow in his life, God will do it for you.  As I like to say “Anything God will do for me, he’ll do more for you because there’s no limit to God.  The limit is only you and a lack of knowledge. What feedback are you getting from people that are reading the book and listening to your teaching?

Gary:  I’ll tell you the teaching of “Make Fear Bow” has become a standard in many Bible colleges now because there’s no other book that clearly unveils all the causes and effects of fear. We’re watching physiologists using the book and helping people face psychosis, which is what they call it, which is nothing more than fear and break the band of that oppression in their life. The word of God is never failing; I have one lady in our church that was just listening to a teaching that I was teaching on fear the other day. She had been watching us on the internet and sitting in her house for 6 years.  I did not know this. God said to me my spirit “You who are sitting at home bound I command you get out of your house and get in this house of God right now.”  She got out and when she got up off that bed the oppression left her, the confusion, all the physical infirmity left her and she has been in the church every service.

Sid: You know you teach about believing and meditating on the word but most people never stand, they never move and this is a missing ingredient.

Sid: My guest her name is Donner Roberson and I’m speaking to her in her home in Tulsa Oklahoma.  You may be familiar with her brother who has been a guest a number of times on Messianic Vision Pastor Dave Roberson and he wrote a book that if you haven’t read you better read it it’s called “The Walk of the Spirit, the Walk of Power.”  And Dave literally as a new believer decided he would put in just like a work day he put in eight hours a day praying in tongues and I’ll tell you this man now walks in the Spirit.  And people that have read his book have finally understood the value of praying in tongues and it just supernaturally creates a desire for people to do it and shows you exactly what your accomplishing.  I can tell you testimonies of people that have gotten a hold of this book and they thought there was no ministry for them, they just thought they were going a regular person and God opened up such supernatural ministries as a result of it. But Donner it is hard to believe but you were literally one of the youngest prostitutes in America.  Tell me a bit about your family growing up.

Donner: Well, we came from a broken home Sid my Mom out of fear began drinking and she became an alcoholic at a very young age and we lived in farm labor camps I guess where migrant workers lived and traveled from here to there and crops.  And we lived usually in well a lot of times in just a one room shack kind of and all of us slept in the same bed.  And we had no bathroom or anything in our home.  But when she was drinking and stuff the fear would come and men would come and we’d get, well I got molested many times but by the time I was four she sold me to some people that couldn’t have children for $200.

Sid: My goodness, did you…of course your four years old but you still must have comprehended or did you comprehend what was going on?

Donner:  Well, I just knew that I couldn’t see my brothers and sisters and I’d cry and cry for them and my Uncle Leon he couldn’t stand it anymore they said and so they come and stole me back.  And then he hid me at his brother’s house which is my Uncle Fabian and that’s how I found out how much it cost because the lady came banging on the door saying “I want her back I paid 200 good dollars for her.

Sid: And then on your 6^th Birthday your grandfather decided to take care of you, what happened?

Donner:   Well, again Mom got in a situation where she had no money, no food and we were eating literally out of garbage cans and it was just a really hard time so my Grandfather came, which is my Mom’s Dad and he got us and he got us.  And he got us a big box of groceries, chicken and all of that stuff and I thought he did it just for my Birthday and so he immediately became my hero.  And by December that was in November and by December he began molesting me; I was devastated because he really was the Apple of my eye.      

Sid: And he by about the age of ten you were starting to react to all of this stuff that was happening to you and you were actually getting kind of mean and how did he try to control you?

Donner:  Well with Grandpa it could be several different ways I mean he was forever yelling at us and telling us how dumb we were.  It was so hard even on my oldest brother that way, but Dave when he would kick you, he’d walk by and kick you and call you lazy and stupid and he had a little hand plows and we used to work in the field with hand plows and different things. But if you really got out of control he would threaten to put you in an orphanage and/or he would kill your favorite pet because we lived on a farm.

Sid: No wonder when you were fifteen you met the love of your life but it didn’t work out that way, tell me about it.

Donner: No it didn’t work out I was trying to escape and when you’re trying to escape something and you don’t know the Lord you make really bad decisions and since I was taught that basically I was told I would never be able to wear a wedding dress or anything like that I was kind of a shame already I didn’t feel like it mattered what I did and so when I got pregnant he ran out.  And it was extremely difficult because he was half Filipino and my Mom was more angry that he was half Filipino than the fact that I got pregnant before I was married so then it was just escalated from bad to worse.

Sid: Well they really, your mother really didn’t want you to carry the baby I mean did she really start hitting you in your stomach to kill the baby?

Donner:   Well, first of all she tried sending out people from an orphanage to intimidate me to give him up and then at early stages she tried to talk me into getting an abortion and I wouldn’t do that either.  I was very stubborn and then when I was eight months pregnant that was about when Kennedy got assassinated Mom was drinking and she tried to hit me in the stomach.  She said that “It should have been me or my bastard child that died, not the Kennedy.  And I was devastated to the point that they almost me when I did have him because I was in shock and trauma and my mom and them wouldn’t stay with me even during the labor; they just dropped me off at the hospital and left me.

Sid: Donner as I’m hearing how you were raised human’s must have a lot of survival instinct you shouldn’t have even made it to but of course by sixteen you decided you have got the solution, you got married and you would live happily ever after but that is not the way the script read did it.

Donner: No, he was angry himself and he never could accept my son you know he just couldn’t and he would get very physically and mentally abusive and so that marriage only lasted two years and produced one more child.

Sid: So now your a single parent two children not much going for you so you do what a lot of people do you got into drugs.  And in fact someone slipped an LSD on you and what affect did it have?

Donner:  I thought that I was going to die to be honest with you I had hallucinations.   I dreamed a friend of mine, I didn’t dream I hallucinated I guess that a friend of mine that had died called me on the telephone and my hair was down to my waist in those days, I saw black widows in my  hair and I almost pulled all my hair out.  I quit driving for a year because I kept thinking people were jumping out in front of me and it was a very trying time.

Sid: But then why did you get into witchcraft?

Donner: Well, when I was a child I had a lot of prophetic dreams, you know my younger brother when I was in the third grad I dreamed he went to war with an Asian type people but I didn’t know being that young I didn’t know who.  And when he was eighteen he was off to Vietnam but this intimidated and scared some of my relatives; one uncle in particular.  And so he would accuse me of being a witch and I think that’s how I slipped into it because it would put fear into him and then he wouldn’t hit you or anything, you could make him run.  So that’s how I learned to intimidate.

Sid: Now did you get pretty deep into witchcraft?

Donner: Yes, I did.

Sid: And what was your purpose, what was your objective?

Donner:  It was self preservation, I didn’t want people to hurt me anymore.

Sid: But what about the reverse, we’re you trying to get back at people through your hexes and things?

Donner: Some there was some I really tried and I was doing well with it I mean things were happening to those people I could unleash demons and they could go do things to them.  And then I targeted Christians even because they would come up judgmental judging because my Mom drank the way she had and they were you know not very kind people so I would pray against Christians too.  And when they would try to preach I’d even sick my dog on them, which weighed about 100 and something pounds.

Sid: My goodness things were going from bad to worse with you and your behavior became pretty violent.

Donner: Yeah, I was…unfortunately I can honestly say I used to really put fear in people.  I could terrify some of the best.

Sid:  You actually shot at people and stabbed people.

Donner: I never stabbed anyone I cut them with a glass which is the same thing, I mean I made them bleed,but it was when they wouldn’t leave me alone or anything and I’d tell them to take their hands off of me and he did not it.  So I hit him with a…  I was in a bar and I hit him with half a glass of beer and I cut him their eyebrow and on down to their cheek.

Sid: Did you see much purpose in living?

Donner:  No except to raise my children and I tried not to do a lot of things in front of them but I was still pretty volatile.

Sid: I tell you what Mishpochah we’re going to pick up here right at this point on tomorrow broadcast with Donner but this is such a miraculous, miraculous deliverance.  And one of the reasons she got free is she learned of the value of praying in unknown tongues.  And then a few years later she was reunited with her brother Dave Roberson who as you know wrote the book “The Walk of the Spirit” and the Walk of Power.”  And this book explained what she was doing in her life but there are ministries waiting for some of you right now…I know people and in fact Donner was telling me before we went on the air people that have been set free from so many things by praying long hours in the Holy Spirit…

Sid: What happens if your granddaughter is frolicking, swimming, just 4 ½ years of age in your backyard swimming pool and the grandmother goes up the sliding board to slide down and doesn’t even realize that her granddaughter is following up right behind her and she had a knee problem, the grandmother, and so she falls and hit’s her granddaughter and her granddaughter goes flying off.  Remember now this is 9 feet up in the air on the bottom is just cement, and she falls and I have the Grandmother on the telephone, her name is Mary Jo, or her family calls her Ma Jo Pennington.  I’m speaking to her at that same home in Brandon, Florida. Ma Jo that had to be the biggest nightmare of your life, but as your husband explained yesterday she was supernaturally caught up by these big angels and didn’t even fall normal and just had a tiny scratch that a bandage took care of.  But she should have been dead and then and you didn’t know this but then when your granddaughter got on the telephone with her mother what did she tell your daughter?

Mary Jo: Her mother?  She said “She heard God yell, save the children, catch Victoria” and 6 big, big, big angles caught her and zoom took her up to Heaven.  She told us the color of their hair, they have different colors of hair; she described the angels.  And about the time that she was describing the angels and one had pale orange hair, one had red hair, one had light purple hair that was kind of blue and one would shine bright and one was golden.  The phone rang and her mother said “Ask her if she saw God?”  Well, I hadn’t even thought of that, I said “Victoria, did you see God?”  She said “Ah, hah” and I said “What was He doing?”  She said “Him was writing in a book, actually two really old phone books.”  And so then I asked her what God looked like.  And she said “Really shiny, bright shine, His hair was shine white in all colors and His robe was white and shiny.” And I asked her if God said anything to her.  Now these things are out of sequence because latter we can tell you the whole story, but she told me right then at that moment she said “Him didn’t talk, Him didn’t say.” Him say without talking always do what He say,” He said “Always do what I saw with His hands on my face.”  (Laughing)

Sid: Now again she’s using, she’s quoting the exact words of her granddaughter who was 4½ years.

Mary Jo: She doesn’t say that now, but she’s just like that.

Sid: Right, now did she tell you that she was afraid by this experience?

Mary Jo: She said she was scared when she first went in there, but when she was on God’s lap she wasn’t scared anymore.

Sid: She actually sat on His lap?

Mary Jo: Yes, she did.

Sid: My goodness, what a call on her life. We’ll go into later on this week the things that are going on in her life and the things that she knows.  But you wrote this book and where’d the title come from “Six Big, Big, Big Angels.”

Mary Jo: Yes, because the first thing she said was, “Six Big, big, big angels caught me and zoom took me right up to Heaven.”

Sid: What do you believe God wants to accomplish through this book?

Mary Jo: Oh there’s so many messages to people from this book and we haven’t even gotten into any of if yet but she spent a lot of time at the Baby Place and she saw the little tiny tiny babies all over the place.  

Sid:   Well, what’s the baby, this is in Heaven, what’s the Baby Place?

Mary Jo:   The Baby Place, the first Baby Place she went to was a huge beautiful building and she said “There were babies in front of her, babies over here on the left of her, little tiny babies on the right of her, babies behind her.  She said “Babies everywhere maybe sixty.  She said, “Jesus, He fixed them there, this is where the babies were first brought, the little tiny ones that she could hold in her hand.”

Sid: Now assume you talking about aborted babies, and her 4 ½ year old vocabulary, well how did she describe this whole thing in her words?

Mary Jo: Well, when she finally did tell me exactly what these babies were she said “You remember that first little tiny baby I held in my hands Ma Jo Lynn” because she gave her a name.  I said “Yes.” Her was squeezed out of her Mom’s pully pop before her was big enough to live”

Sid: So she was…she really doesn’t understand what was going on but she could describe this.

Mary Jo: Yes.   

Sid: Tell me more about these babies.

Mary Jo:   Well, these babies are fixed by Jesus over in the big baby place. While they’re there this is when she started telling us about television and Heaven.  When they’re first fixed and made whole they are given a brain, they can understand and see and hear and talk immediately after Jesus and the angels fix them.  They are trained right from that moment forward before they’re given…before they go over to the beautiful room that I’ll tell you about later. They are trained by seeing something much like a movie or much like TV but it comes out and it’s real.  I would suggest maybe it looks like hologram but they are taught about Jesus from before His birth when Mary is spoken to by Gabriel until His whole life.  They see, they love Him, they are taught to praise and worship Him as the shepherds come.

Sid: You know your book has something in it that is so helpful for anyone that has been part of an abortion, and has been traumatized, or just stuffed it.  Tell me some of the insights that would be helpful.

Mary Jo:  Well, when she told me about these babies and I can tell you more tomorrow about them personally because I know some of them, but I asked her after she told me.

Sid: What do you mean, you know some of them?

Mary Jo:  One of them was the grandchild of some friends of ours and they had just told me about her about two or three days before Victoria fell, and she talked to her there and she gave her her name.  And she said “Her lived with Uncle Tommy.”

Sid: And did she know that the baby had died?

Mary Jo: No, she didn’t know about that.

Sid: My goodness that had to be pretty conclusive evidence to you.

Mary Jo: It was a shock, I’ll tell you my heart almost stopped beating. She told me that the baby was sad for a little bit and she whispered a secret to her and it was many months before she told me what the secret was.  But she actually gave that baby her own name and we call her little Victoria. This child is growing up in Heaven and she Victoria sees her often and tells me you know about her birthday party and different things.

Sid: What do these, not this particular one but what does these aborted babies think about their parents?

Mary Jo:  Well, I asked her, I said “Victoria do the babies hold it against their mothers for giving them up?  And she said “Oh Ma Jo the mommy’s never give up the babies they will always love the babies and the babies will always love the mommy’s.

Sid: And one of the things I want to explain to you is that Victoria the granddaughter who at the time that this first occurred was 4 ½ years of age, keeps having these visitations to Heaven. I mean do you know how many she’s had?

Mary Jo: Oh no we could never keep up with it, I suspect well she can just lay in bed at night and as we’re saying prayers and she opens her eyes and can see God.  And she can often see Him that way and her mother says “How can you play, how do you walk around and do normal things?”  She said “I just don’t look up.”

Sid: Tell me how helpful your brand new book titled “Six Big, Big, Big Angels” is for people that had abortions?

Mary Jo:  Oh my, this will help them to understand that…and it will open the wound, the hard knot of pain that’s hidden deep down inside; it will open it up and it will break their heart but then they can grieve for their baby and they can actually name it and ask God to forgive them.  And start thinking about the baby because when they think about the baby the bay knows it, the baby know, they keep up with their parents.  They keep up with their daddies and their mommies and they grandparents, they know what they’re doing and if you think about them and ask God to forgive you and ask your baby they hear you.  They have forgiven you, Jesus taught them forgiveness and the baby has forgiven the mommy but the mommy has to forgive herself and she has to be willing to let Jesus clean her out and bring her peace and her life can be made whole again.

Sid: Now, in addition to the Baby Room which has all these aborted babies, you’re getting such insight…do you have any idea why your granddaughter was selected to do this and come back and report on these things?

Mary Jo: No idea at all, I had no idea for a long long time why she saw these little babies. She saw their little teddy bears, little tiny.. their beautiful room with  flowers growing up but their animals that they play with are alive and they’re like angelic creatures, but they’re alive and they smell good and they sing to the babies. And they keep them company but they change, they can be little for the little tiny babies that fit in Victoria’s hands they can be as little as that.  And also the babies have access to a wonderful, or many wonderful kangaroos that must be angelic creatures.  And Victoria and one of the little babies went for a ride in the pouch and one of the little babies nestle down in there, the pouch smells good and it’s warm and cozy.  And I suspect that it reminds them of their mother’s womb when they were carried there.  And I think that’s for their own healing and recovery of their little heart because when they…

Sid: Now, some of things that you are saying sound to the people that are listening so outrageous, but one of the reasons that I’, interviewing you is little Victoria saw so many things that she had no way of knowing that are right out of the Bible.

Mary Jo: Absolutely.

Sid: The other things the Bible doesn’t comment on and I find this interesting.