Sid: My guest Vickie Faurie; I’m speaking to her at her home at Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.  On yesterday’s broadcast you were just finishing up Vickie. You were sharing a message from your book “Dead Men Walking” Billy Joe Daugherty’s Church in Oklahoma, Victory Center.  And you were teaching a class on this subject and all of a sudden you told me that there was just like on yesterday’s broadcast there was such a strong presence of God.  There was a release of the Holy Spirit and what happened to the people in the class?

Vickie:  Well, what happened and as we were telling those who are ready to enter into this to the river of dying to self who are embracing this and saying “I am putting everything on the altar of sacrifice; I am sacrificing it all.”  The power of God came into the room literally.  And people as they were coming forward the Spirit of God was hitting them.  And they were all laid out in the Spirit on the floor and then as others were waiting because we had a class right after that that followed it.  The Spirit of God was hitting them outside of the room and as we were trying to clear the room to bring others…

Sid: You mean they weren’t even hearing and they were falling in the Spirit outside of the room?

Vickie: Yes, the Spirit of God was so strong so they could hear parts of it but the Spirit of God was so strong that you could feel the presence and the power of God.  When you’re in the presence in the power of God you don’t have to have to hear everything perfectly.  Because when God touches it doesn’t matter what man says it’s His touch anyhow.      

Sid: And for those that are perhaps that are tuning in for the first time Vickie has an anointing similar to Kathryn Kuhlman in that people get healed all over.  She’s just speaks and without even laying hands on them.  And I believe that that’s going to be happening as you’re listening to us right now.  What did the Lord show you before we went on the air about what is going to be going on in the future in America?

Vickie: He had showed me that with America that this great shaking and everything that has been occurring that those who say to Him “Lord, we’re going to follow You we will deny ourselves; we’ll take up that cross and follow You.” That He will keep His hand upon them.  But for those who don’t there is going to be such a shaking an inflation is going to occur where the gas prices will go up; interest rates.  Everything that’s going to overwhelm people as this shaking they’re going to be overwhelmed.  You know we felt just a tad bit when the gas prices went up; we felt a tad bit when it was hitting $2 marks and various things but that is nothing compared to the pre-warnings.  But those that; core that is red hot on fire for God that says “Lord, I’m going to come after You; I’m going to deny myself, take up the cross and follow You” they will have no concern.

Sid: But what about the people that have said “No, to God not really but they had the inclination to do something and they haven’t done it and they’ve hardened themselves.  Is there a chance for those people?

Vickie:  When that’s shaking starts if they do not repent and turn and they were to lose their life through the midst of everything that is going on. There will be terrorist attacks and various things.  God is trying to awaken the church and awaken it’s people.  He has to come back for the bride without spot wrinkle and blemish.

Sid: So now is the time for a true believers to be praying and yielding to the Spirit of God and not playing religion and dying to self.

Vickie:  That’s right, these are serious times we’re living in Sid.  It’s no time to play games with God.  9/11 proved it.  God is saying “Wake up people!” Jesus said, “If anyone would come after me” in Mark 8:34  “If anyone would come after me He must.” And when He uses the word must He’s telling you “He must follow this.”  “He must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me; for whoever wants to save His life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for Me has got the gospel will save it.”  And as you said “What good is it for a man to gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul; or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?”  See our time frame here is short but eternity is for eternity and where do you want to spend eternity?  Do you want to spend it in hell or do you want to spend it in heaven; the choice comes down to you.  Decision, what is your decision?  Are you going to be red hot, on fire?  Sid brings these show across and he tells you to be red hot and on fire for God.  He’s teaching the death position; he teaches it.  He lives it and he wants the people of America and the people of Israel to see the truth.  And the truth will set them free and the only way you can be free is to walk with God your Maker.

Sid: Vickie there are a number of prayers that you have written out in your book “Dead Men Walking.”  But I believe that there are people now that are saying “I am so desperate for more of God; I am so desperate to hear God’s voice; I’m so desperate to make my life counts.  I’m not even talking about whether I go to heaven or hell I just need intimacy with you God.”  Would you lead these people in a prayer of consecration right now and I’ll repeat it after you and everyone that feels they want to pray this prayer should repeat it with me.  Because this is the time now to have intimacy with God.  Remember the 5 wise and the 5 foolish virgins?   It’s what do you want to be wise or foolish.  The foolish had the door locked.  The wise heard the bridegroom’s voice and went in.  Will you lead us in a prayer Vickie?

Vickie:  Certainly will.  Oh heavenly Father, we glorify Thy Name for You are holy.  Lord God,

Sid:  Lord God.

Vickie:  I come before You

Sid: I come before You

Vickie:  And the prayer of my heart

Sid:  And the prayer of my heart

Vickie: Is to be totally dead to self.

Sid: Is to be totally dead to self.

Vickie:  I want to surrender everything

Sid: I want to surrender everything

Vickie:  My mind.

Sid:  My mind.

Vickie:  My body,

Sid: My body,

Vickie:  my Soul,

Sid:  my Soul,

Vickie:  and my spirit.

Sid:  and my spirit.

Vickie:  I want to abide in the cross of Christ

Sid:  I want to abide in the cross of Christ

Vickie:  crucifying the flesh 

Sid:  crucifying the flesh 

Vickie:  in total surrender ship to You Lord.

Sid:  in total surrender ship to You Lord.

Vickie:  For You have commanded us Lord

Sid:  For You have commanded us Lord

Vickie:  to deny our self

Sid:  to deny our self

Vickie:  to take up our cross

Sid:  to take up our cross

Vickie:  daily

Sid: daily

Vickie:  following You

Sid:  following You

Vickie:  According to Your will

Sid:   According to Your will

Vickie:  and according to Your way.

Sid: and according to Your way.

Vickie:  So Lord I empty myself

Sid:  So Lord I empty myself

Vickie:  of all my worldly ways.

Sid:  of all of my worldly ways.

Vickie:  I will no longer be a part of this world

Sid:  I will no longer be a part of this world

Vickie: for I set myself a part

Sid:  for I set myself a part

Vickie: to reflect Christ.

Sid: to reflect Christ.

Vickie:  in me.

Sid: in me.

Vickie:  I choose

Sid:  I choose

Vickie: to be

Sid:  to be

Vickie:  a divine imitator of Christ.

Sid:  a divine imitator of Christ.

Vickie: to those around me.

Sid: to those around me.

Vickie: Lord, with great joy in my heart

Sid:  Lord, with great joy in my heart

Vickie: I take up the cross

Sid:  I take up the cross

Vickie:  of dying to all of my selfish will.

Sid:  of dying of all my selfish will.

Vickie:  And I humbly submit myself now

Sid: And I humbly submit myself now

Vickie:  in utter total obedience

Sid:  in utter total obedience

Vickie:  to You and to You alone.

Sid:  to You and You alone.

Vickie:  Lord, I seek to be absolutely

Sid:  Lord I seek to be absolutely

Vickie: surrendered into Your hands.

Sid:  surrendered into Your hands.

Vickie: in every area of my life.

Sid: In every area of my life.

Vickie: Lord, I thank You for hearing

Sid: Lord I thank You for hearing

Vickie:  hearing this prayer this day

Sid: hearing this day this day

Vickie:  and I know that Thou answers it.

Sid:  and I know that Thou answers it.

Vickie:  I worship You.

Sid:  I worship You Lord praise Your holy Name.

Vickie:  Amen.

Sid:  Amen. Well Vickie we’re just about out of time and I believe that God heard that prayer and is in process of answering it.  And great miracle ministries are being raised up.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Kevin Turner, and Kevin is President of Strategic World Impact. I’m catching up with him with his office in the Sudan, Africa areas.  And he’s at their base with his entire family there.  He works primarily in warzones; disaster areas, and where there’s Christian persecution.  Kevin you’ve got a young family; you’re a young man; why are you putting your life on the line and your family’s life on the line?  You could do very well in America; you know that and I know that; God knows that; why are you?

Kevin:  There’s a really incredible hymn that I think will sum it up for you and it’s says this.  Only one life will soon be past and only what’s done for Jesus will last.  And then the second stanza and then people forget this one.  And when it is over how glad I shall be if the lamp of my life has been burned out for Thee. 

Sid: We don’t hear things like that here in America. Tell me 3 or 4 hot spots and persecution that’s going on for Christians.  I mean you don’t have to go any further than Sudan.  I don’t understand why the world hasn’t been in an outrage over this for years they’ve been systematically murdering Christians. I don’t get it Kevin.

Kevin:   Well, unfortunately I think that the god of this world has blinded the eyes of our press and various things.  So that after all it’s just a couple million Christians who have been systematically subjected to genocide.

Sid: A couple million!?

Kevin: In the last, in the last, in fact me and my wife were counting. In the last 8 months on 5 occasions our lives had been directly spared. We had literally 26 jihadists they were posted on the roadside waiting to attack us with our PG’s, and machine gun fire. The Lord prevented that from taking place. All I can say is this, I believe the greatest thing in life would be for me to live for Jesus, and the second things is to lay my life down for Him. I believe theologically that Jesus said “Come and die” and He meant it.

Sid: Question…

Kevin: He meant it.

Sid: It’s one thing for you, wait a second Kevin, that is one thing for you, and yes He meant that.  But how come you have your family; how old are your children?

Kevin:  Well my oldest is 14 my daughter; in fact she was attacked here in Africa.  And my second daughter is 8 I’m sorry 11 and my son is 8.  And what’s really interesting about that we wrote an article me and my daughter together, my 14 year old daughter.  It’s called “Calvary’s Love” and after she was attacked my wife…

Sid: Now wait a second, why was she attacked?

Kevin:  Well, because of the country and the area of where we’re working.  It was actually an insane man who jumped out and grabbed her by the neck and began choking her.  I ran over there to rescue her and we were attacked by a mob of about 50 people.  We barely got out of there with our lives it was just me, my wife and my daughter.

Sid: Oh, why the mob attack you; I understand the crazy man but why the mob?

Kevin:  Well, they’re Muslims and I think what happened is we’re very well known that we’re Christians.  And they were beating and trying to smash our windshields on our vehicle, which I literally had to fight to get my wife and daughter into.  They were sitting inside screaming and when we finally got back to my missions compound my wife was I mean incredibly disturbed as you could imagine.  My daughter is crying and literally I mean it was probably 5:00 AM my wife had finally went to sleep and I stayed up even a little bit longer to pray.  And the nest couple of hours she woke up and said “Kevin I just want to know why; why did God allow this to happen?”  I said “Because He’s giving us the ability to understand what Calvary’s love is all about.” You see the love of the flesh only goes so far but to love people that attack your daughter, well that’s Calvary love that’s the love of Jesus.  And what we’re able to do through that is grow and the most important thing out of that entire episode for me was seeing my 14 year old daughter, she was 13 at the time weeping she just turned 14 weeping, crying; pleading that she wanted to stay. She didn’t want to leave.  My wife was ready to change the tickets and finally the Lord touched her heart we ended up staying.  When we went back to America I was scheduled to come back to Sudan and my daughter was weeping and saying “Dad you can’t go without me; you can’t go without me you got to take me, I have to go back.”  And I’m thinking “This is in the heart of a 14 year old girl who understands what Jesus meant when He said ‘Come and follow Me.’” You know what the modern lie the biggest lie in the church in America is today?

Sid: What’s that?

Kevin:  It’s called the doctrine of in expendability.  And what the pastors, preachers and evangelists have told the church in America today is.  “You’re too important to die.”

Sid: Hm.

Kevin:   “You’re too important to lay down your life” If you’re going to have good ministry it needs to be long ministry.  And as Jim Elliott wrote in his diary before he was speared to death by the Auca Indians he said “Can’t thou bear the short lived life oh my soul?”  And I thank God John the Baptist did subscribe to that false theology “I believe and therefore I live.”  And until I knew Jesus I didn’t have hope; I didn’t have anything worth living for; I didn’t have anything to die for.  But He revolutionized my life and because of that I want to live for Him and even die in His service.

Sid:  Kevin what is it like when you’re in a life threatening situation which happens to you more than we have time to discuss and you feel Jesus with you?

Kevin:  I’ll tell you this right now I sometimes almost think that I’m an adrenaline junkie because what I’ve seen is in the midst of chaos, turmoil, or when I don’t even know if I’m going to be alive tomorrow Jesus is so near.  I remember one time in fact that we were attacked by helicopter gunships.  I had my right knee opened to the bone; a bunch of people were shot and killed around me.  I ended up running 90 miles through the desert.  And as they were shooting at me rockets my back pack was blown to smithereens by a rocket.  I was crawling on my hands and knees and trying to get into these huge rocks and I remember as I clawed by way up the side of this mountain. I finally saw this crevice in these rocks I crawled in and I thought I’d be safe from this fire.  This is helicopter gunships circling us.  And literally when I crawled in that crevice in those rocks Jesus met me in there.  And this is what He said “Kevin I’ll hide you here in the cleft of the rock and I’ll cover you with My hand.” (Crying) And I’ll tell you there’s not a dime, there’s not a million dollars; there’s nothing that anyone could give me in response that knowing Jesus called me by name and He put His hand on me.  And there’s something that you get to experience when You say “Jesus Your my all and all.”  And when He’s your treasure, and of course we know He lives in heaven at the right hand of the Father; then the things of this earth grow strangely dim and it’s not about your kids; and it’s not about living for your wife, or any other thing. It’s simply this “To live is Christ, and to die is gain.”  And the only way that can be reality; the only way that you can truly say that is when Jesus is more important to you than anything.

Sid: You know I was reading that article that caused me to call you right outside of Sudan, Africa.  I’m going to quote from it; it says “A Chinese Christian who spent more than 26 years in a tiny prison cell was asked upon his release how he handled this confinement?”  His answer rocked me to the core; he said “It was like a honeymoon with Jesus.”  Do you remember when he said that Kevin?

Kevin:  Yes I did, and yes I do.  In fact I remember being there in that underground church and meeting with this precious saint. He actually was friends with Watchmen Nee; they were part of what was called the Magnificent Seven of China along with Allen Yun, and Samuel M.  And this was so that Wayne McDowell and in fact there was a book about his life called “A Stone Made Smooth.”  I’ll tell you I remember sitting there with these precious believers but before I could sit with them I had to get to the front of the church because they were calling me to the front.  It was so packed with bodies seated on the floor was the only way I could get there was to step on the hands, on the knees, on the people that were sitting there on the floor worshiping.  And I was so humbled because they weren’t looking at me say “Hey buddy you bumped me, hey you stepped on me!” they were smiling with the radiance of the Son of God.  I got to the front of there and I sat with the man who’d been in prison for 27 years.  He said that “After 12 hours of forced labor he would literally have 10 minutes outside behind his cell, and there’s only consolation in life was that he would hum “The Old Rugged Cross” to himself.  And I thought “Jesus this man knows you in a way that I only dream of.”  What I’ve seen in life Sid is this “Calamity clarifies and comfort confuses.”  When the church in America wants to say how God has blessed them they point to things.  When the church around the world wants to say how God has blessed them they point to souls.  They point to the interaction; they point to the intercourse of God in their soul and it’s so valuable.  It’s such a precious thing it blows my mind.

Sid: You know the most popular message on American Christian TV today is “Give to my ministry and you will have such abundance of money and wealth.”  How far removed from is that from the Book, the Bible?”

Kevin:  Huh, well my message to the Church in America is come and die.”  Few people take me up on it but I believe with all my heart that I have divine obligation to stand up and say “Come and be a Martyr for Jesus; come and lay down your life for something more important than yourself.”

Sid: Kevin, we’re out of time right now we’ll pick up on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: I have Freddy Hayler on the telephone right now we’re discussing his 2 CD’s and DVD’s called “Song of Angels.”  Freddy when you worship God what happens; for lack of words “What is the benefit of worshiping God?”

Freddy:  Well, I believe that worshiping God makes you and allows you to experience the atmosphere of Heaven. And when the atmosphere of Heaven descends wherever you are becomes a sanctuary.  And that sanctuary and that sanctuary is the kavod, the Hebrew word for God’s glorious presence.  And in His presence the Bible says “There’s pleasures forever more; there is abundance; there is copiousness; there’s creativeness; there’s visions; there is provision; there’s salvation; there’s healing.  There’s everything; every abundant blessing in His presence in His kavod that’s when you worship God when you exercise the highest form of intercession.

Sid: How does worship tie in with the end time revival?

Freddy:  The end time will have the Spirit of Elijah; will be consecrated and set aside; they will be true pure worshipers.  Not serving God or loving God for any other motive but simply to love Him.  And they will be used; they will have their ears attuned to spiritual warfare; they’re know how to pray for their family.  They will experience the protection of angels and they will walk in power of Enoch and Elijah. Because there were men of like passion but they were also able to be translated into Heaven.  And I believe that we’ll see more miracles when the end-times comes closer and closer to the coming of the Messiah people will be translated to Heaven. They’ll be translated from one place to another as they were in the book of Acts.  I just think that it opens a door a portal to the atmosphere of heaven. And when you dwell in the presence of God, and as Zechariah experienced the greatest assembly of angels that are on the earth and in Heaven, you’re able to do more for God with less effort including evangelism; including missions.

Sid: Okay, tell me about from Song of Angels the Song “Elijah.”

Freddy: Well, you know there were 3 men that were caught up into Heaven and the fiery chariot came for Elijah and Elijah saw that.  But Moses was caught up in Heaven; Enoch was caught up in Heaven. And it’s just a song about getting that mantle of glory upon you from Heaven through worship.  And that spirit of holiness and that unction to have; I mean He wants His bride to be pure and holy and to be set apart from all mixture and from Babylon.  And to prepare to rule and reign with Christ and  the New Celestial City which is Jerusalem which is coming to earth and He wants us to be like Elijah pure of heart and pure of motive and like Jesus and He’s empowering those who obey and seek His face.

Sid: Are you ready for a transformation in your life? Of course you are and I tell you that literally your DNA is going to be affected by this worship on Song of angels “Elijah.”

Excerpt “Elijah”

Sid: Tell me about the person in the auto accident that the “Song of Angels” was being played while the accident was going on, explain.

Freddy: There was a very serious accident; this woman and man this couple had this beautiful family of 4 and they were all in the car and it was a minivan and they were heading home from school or something they were doing.  And while the cars were spinning out of control after colliding she said that it was like they were on feathers; everything was put on slow motion.  She couldn’t figure it out but she could hear the song of angels playing  and the beautiful music in the car and none of them were afraid.  And she said that it was like molasses, she figured out later those were angels protecting us from getting hurt. Other than her son having bump on his head nobody was hurt in her vehicle and when they got out they were not shaking.  They had peace and the police were listening to this album playing in the wrecked total car after the accident.

Sid: Now on the DVD of “Song of Angels” that you have the most beautiful scenes from nature; how did you get such beautiful scenery?

Freddy: (Laughing) Well, you know God’s creation is a small glimpse of Heaven and everything in Heaven is on a more grandiose and perfect scale but Earth is incredibly beautiful.  And so we have a lot of HD footage that many of which that you’ve not seen before that’s just pictures of waterfalls; mountains; valley’s flowers that are just beautiful.  The most pinnacle of God’s beauty and creation in HD and we had some of the top animators in the industry do all the great movies and whatever we hired the best to do my animation to try to recreate the visions that I had in CD.

Sid:  I mean what peace!

Sid: I’ve got two people that are red-hot for the Messiah; they’re Mishpochah in the flesh they’re my brother-in-law and my sister, Marc and Shirley. They have recently made Aliyah 3 years ago.  That means they immigrated to Israel at the height of the Intifada, the suicide bombers and everything else that’s going on there.  If you knew my sister you would know no one short of God Himself could have called her to leave her family.  She’s so family oriented; she’s got two sons that are married with children.  And she’s so family centered there should have been no reason short of a dream from God.  They knew that they knew, that they knew that God was calling them to Israel.  And I must I have my sister Shirley on the phone, but I really believe what you said on yesterday’s broadcast after having that dream you believe that God was showing you Jeremiah 16.  You know I remember you said in that dream that you said that you got on the last plane to Israel.  I believe that prophetically speaking we’re about ready to see the last plane for Jewish people to get to Israel right now.  I believe that God is using this broadcast to speak to people but I want… Shirley in the natural you walk into this “War zone.” You leave your family, you’re in good health you and your husband, you’re in good shape financially.  You get to Israel you feel tremendous peace and here you are now in a land that you don’t even speak the language.  Tell me some of your most fond experiences over the last 3 years.

Shirley:  Oh, there’s so many, we have seen God’s grace and love for us every single day we’re there.  It’s just amazing to us; for example we walk into a bakery; it’s Marc’s birthday and I’m looking for some goodies to serve some company that are coming over that evening.  And we’ve never been in this bakery before and the little clerk; young lady behind the counter. We start talking to her and say “We’re new Ohleem and we say “We don’t speak the language, do you speak English?” And she says “Oh, yes I speak English.” and we start talking and she said “You want some coffee?”  And I thought she wanted to sell us some coffee; and she said “No, no it’s a gift.”  And I said “You want to give us coffee?” And she said “Yes.”  And I said “Well, thank you.”  So we go sit down and she’s bringing the coffee cups towards us and I get up to get them from there.  And she says “Oh, no I want to serve you.”  This is a complete stranger, then Marc and I are sitting there sipping the coffee looking at each other saying “Boy, this is nice and she comes over with this big pastry.”  And I said “No thank you we don’t want any pastry right now.”  And she said “No, no this is a gift from me to you.”  And I said “A gift…”  Well, I said “Thank you,” You know you don’t turn down a gift and so this young lady she has become like a daughter to us.  Every time we come into this bakery she comes around the counter and gives us a big hug and says “How have you been, why have you stayed away so long?”  She’s like family to us; and this has not happened to us just one time.  We’re sitting in a restaurant having coffee and the waiter by the time we’re ready to leave the restaurant is inviting us to his house for an evening.  The people are unbelievably warm and they just take you into their lives like their long lost relatives.  We just love Israel.

Sid: How fearful are you when you get up in the morning and when you get your coffee.  What is that Hebrew word for coffee that you get?

Shirley:  Ah Café Afuq, different.

Sid:  Okay. Watch your language okay I’m just teasing go ahead. But how do you feel really?  When you open the newspaper, when you see TV and suicide bombers all over the place and surrounded by people that hate you.  Europe hates Israel with a passion. I mean the whole world outside the United States hates Israel and is favoring the Palestinians for a state. How do you feel?

Shirley:  You are 100% in what you said. I feel safer in Israel then I do in the United States to tell you the truth.  They know what they’re doing, they know how to take care of situations immediately; not 20 minutes or 15 minutes down the road.  They have security guards all around the mall every entrance.  So even though there’s a large crowd there I feel so safe; everybody that’s gone into that mall has been checked. And they’re belongings have been checked.  I feel very safe there; but the bottom line is you are in the safest place if you are where God want you to be. And we know with all our hearts that that is where God wants us to be and in the natural it doesn’t make sense that we’re there.  Because we’re not doing a big ministry for God or anything.  We’re just being obedient to God and He is opening up doors for us as we walk with relationships with different people.  I’ll tell you; in Israel it’s so exciting because like in the United States all our friends were believers.  But in Israel like it’s 50% believers 50% nonbelievers now.

Sid: Are many Jewish people coming to the Lord?

Shirley:   They’re coming but not many, not in 100’s in like 10, 12, you know small numbers they’re coming.  But they’re very open; our friends that don’t know the Lord yet; we believe that they’re our friends because I believe there was that connection there to make us friends because God wants them to come to know Him. And we are talking to them and they are so open to listening to what we have to say.  They’re interested in our testimony; they’re interested why we’re in the land.  Many of the Russians there especially ask us “Why are you here, we had to come here but you had a choice?”  It’s a testimony in itself just us being there.

Sid: Let me ask you a question; you’ve like myself we learned how to read Hebrew and Marc the same.  We didn’t understand many words at all; you knew zilch really.  And you and your husband are in Ulpan, that’s where you’re studying the language.  How old are you you know I’m told not to ask this question.  How old is your husband how’s that.

Shirley:  My husband’s much older than me; not really; 67…

Sid: Alright 67.

Shirley:   Yes.

Sid: How are you and your husband learning Hebrew at these ages?

Shirley:  I’ll tell you it’s hard but God has given us such a love for the language.  I never like languages going through college and I was never a scholar in languages.  But in Israel we both love studying Hebrew.  And we are now at the point that we can speak Hebrew. We can have a short conversation; we can tell people our needs or our wants but it’s something God has given us.  We just love learning Hebrew and our teacher and the students in our class have become like a family to us.  We love them; they love us.

Sid: Shirley speak to that Jewish person that’s listening to us right now and that says “I wonder God are you calling us to Israel?”

Shirley:  (Laughing) First of all I’d like to say don’t believe everything you hear in the news.  The news is definitely prejudice.  I’d say if God speaking to you be obedient; we have never been happier in our lives.  And we’ve had a wonderful life; but we feel like we’re on the biggest adventure with the Lord than we’ve ever had before.  So all I can say is if you feel God is telling you something be obedient to what He says.

Sid: Well, I’m going to tell you something right now. I am going to tell you that the one thing you know, that you know; that you know; that you know is that this is the set time to favor Zion.  And God wants desperately Jewish people to come to know Him.

Sid: Guess what, my guest in the studio his name is Jose Santana and the Spirit of God has just descended in this studio and I am expecting the miraculous.  Don’t you dare touch that dial, stay right where you are.  In my studio is Jose Santana he is a New Covenant Prophet, he’s from the Rochester, New York area.  He’s an apostle, he works with backslidden pastors.  God has entrusted him with a wonderful gift of prophesy.  Most people I know merchandise their gift in the wrong way.  Because they live an unholy life they don’t even have the gift it comes out as mixture and it’s a stench in the eyes of a holy God.  Jose how do you protect your gift; you have a wonderful gift; I mean how do you protect it?  People probably put you on platforms; they’ll do anything for you.  “Give me a word, give me a word.”  That must be what everyone says to you that meet you; how do you protect the gift from being cynical, from not walking a holy life?

Jose:  Well, I protect it by first honoring the one that gave me the gift the Lord Jesus Christ.  And when He gave me the gift I asked the Lord “I will never ever forget who is in control of this gift, it’s You.” What was the reason that I asked for the gift was to serve the body of Christ to be a blessing to other.  I’m one of the least of the least of all the saints, this gift was given to me so that I could serve the Body.

Sid: Now tell me the circumstances as to what was going on in your life when the gift really started developing.  Were you praying for this gift?

Jose:  Yes Sir; I was praying about 2 ½ – 3 years because people would come to the church and say “And God spoke to me; and God showed me this.” And I said “Lord would You consider, speaking to me; would You consider…”

Sid: Did you really talk to Him that way, “Would you consider?”

Jose:  Yes.

Sid: That really is a respect there.

Jose:  And He gave me the scripture of 2^nd Corinthians 2:9 that declare that “Eye have not seen and ears have not heard.”  So I went to bed with that scripture and I said “Lord if I have not seen; open my eyes that I may see; and if ears have not heard speak to your servant that I may hear You.”  And I went 2 maybe 3 years with that scripture and one day I’m walking in the church and I see a brother with his whole body almost dying, that the enemy has thrown some darts. He was not using the shield of faith.  And I said “Oh, Lord what is this all about?”  And He explained and that was the first time I had ever seen in the spirit.

Sid:  Alright, you saw that.

Jose:  Yes

Sid: And what did you do about it?

Jose:  Yes, I was so overwhelmed and I went to pray and I said “Lord why are you showing me this thing?’  And He told me “Tell My people that they must use the shield of faith because they are in war with Satan.”  I warned them.

Sid: And there are so many people listening to us right now and they have so many fears and they have these darts that have been coming at them.  And what they have to learn is not just that shield of faith to knock it down but they have to have a sword to give the demon behind that thought the business.  And the sword is speaking the Word.

Jose:  Speaking the Word; Amen.

Sid: Do you ever sometimes concern about the gift that you have? Or worried that when God gives you a Word… I assume that you have good Words but you have also assume you have very negative Words.  Do you ever see people sins?

Jose:  Absolutely, a lot of times we have an encounter with the prophetic and the Holy Ghost is moving so powerful and the Lord is giving me good words. And I could hear the thoughts of the people when they’re going back to the seats and they were said “Ah, Lord this man of God has the wrong person Lord” I hear every thought so I have to call them back out of the chair and say “How come you told the Lord that I have the wrong person?”  And usually 99% they cover their mouth and they repent because it’s the anointing of God.  The Spirit of God searches the deep things of God.

Sid: Jose, can this gift that you have operate at will whenever you want it to operate?

Jose:  No, it only has the Holy Spirit of God release, I could not see unless He allows me to see.  I cannot hear only if He’s speaking to me, it’s only by His doing.

Sid: So tell me, what would happen if the next 5 prophetic words you gave the people came back and said “Jose you said I was going to have a child.  I didn’t have a child. Jose they all turned out to be wrong; what would you do?”

Jose:  Well, that would bring to examine myself because then I was operating in the flesh. Like I got a friend and he’s a pastor and we went to his kitchen and there was a whole lot of people there and the Holy Spirit spoke to me “Tell my daughter the next year at God’s appointed time of birth she will have a baby boy and the baby boy will be a pastor.”  And I’m not thinking about none of these things but when He speaks, I recognize His voice.  And that is the only way I speak, when He speaks to me.

Sid: I’ve noticed Mishpochah because I’ve asked him things and he won’t answer.  He’ll say “I’ll tell you what the Bible says” but he won’t answer but I’ll tell you what God said.  But I actually question and maybe I’m going to get in trouble now Jose I question those that can prophesy at will.  I believe it’s as the Spirit of God wills.

Jose:   It is very dangerous because what happens people will prophesy out of will they have a tendency of tapping into a familiar spirit.  And that’s not of God that’s of the other guy.

Sid: And that’s a very scary thing.

Jose:  Oh yes it is.

Sid:  Because they’re intent could have been honorable and they could be deceived.

Jose:  Right, they crossed the border.

Sid: And that’s happened unfortunately to a lot of people.  You must have a great deal of insight on how all of us that perhaps are not prophets but we can all prophesy on how we can hear God better. Because as far as I’m concerned if someone has tasted the goodness of God the only thing that counts in their life is to hear God and be obedient to God plus nothing.

Jose:  I’m so excited that you asked me that question.  I do seminars of the prophetic but I share with people how they can keep the spiritual pump primed.  And they go “What are you talking about.”  I said “I see you driving a car and going from Georgia to the Carolina and all of a sudden the Lord put a thought on your heart to call a friend that you haven’t spoken in 3 months.  And you go I will do that later, wrong if you train yourself to park your car and make a phone call at that time God will put words. God will use you as an instrument just as you avail yourself.”

Sid: What if you wait a day.

Jose:  It might be too late; let me give you an example of when I first started to operate in the gift we were invited to a company party. I just sat in the seat and the Holy Spirit spoke to me and said “Get out of there and go to your brother.”  So I told my wife “We have to go.”  She says “Why, we just came.”  “We have to go if you don’t go with me I’m leaving you behind.  So she said “Let’s go.”  So we go to my brother and I knock at his door and we waited 8 minutes and then he put the light and he came down.  So my brother’s name if Tony, so I said “Tony, are you okay.”  He said “He said “Yes.”  The third time he told me “I was this close of killing myself.”

Sid: Hmm.

Jose:  So, of my obedience his life was saved.

Sid: And you know what God says “If I can trust you in little things; I can trust you in big things.

Jose:  Hmm. 

Sid: And what happens to me I’ll get faked out and I’ll say many times, that’s my thought, that’s not God.  But I also know it’s God.  In the past I got faked out, I’m not going to get faked out now

Jose:  Amen.

Sid: But many of us do.

Jose: Yes.

Sid:  Jose we’ve just really met and I was telling you in my office before we started this interview that God has entrusted to me a very very precious vision. I’ve labeled it what Paul called it “The One New Man.”  Because in Ephesians he said “The reason that Jesus came was to break down the wall of separation between Jews and Gentiles to form One New Man.”  Or we might paraphrase that as “The complete body of the Messiah.”  Because the Jew that believes in Jesus without the Gentle that believes in Jesus is incomplete. The Gentle that believes in Jesus without the Jew that believes in Jesus is incomplete.  And I was explaining in the office I’ve been to many reconciliation meetings between let’s say black and white Christians.  And it’s what I call a 24 hour wonder; they’ll even go so far as washing feet.  But at the end of 24 hours the black pastors go back to their black churches and the white pastors go back to their white churches and nothing changes.  Could it be Jose that because we haven’t approached the foundational sin, the rift between Jews and Gentiles, we can never address the other sins the rifts between races and all the other differences in theology and all of these other differences?  And so God has entrusted this One New Man.  I got such a revelation the other day.  I found out that where it talks about New Covenant and it’s prophesied in the Old Testament in Hebrew and in the New Testament in English.  The word new which means never existed before is a mistranslated.  The word really is renew.

Jose:  Amen. 

Sid: Meaning that you take the scriptures in the Old Testament and you don’t throw them out.  You take the festivals in the Old Covenant and you don’t toss them out. You renew them with the meaning of Messiah who has come and rose from the dead.  And I’m seeing that this is… the definition of insanity Jose is to keep doing the same thing the same way and expect different results.

Jose:  That’s right.

Sid: It’s insane; well I believe that when the church understands this renewed covenant and we need money in this ministry to get this word out.  I’m calling this week for those to plant a seed in this ministry; maybe you’ve never sent to any ministry ever before.  I bless you with Genesis 12:3.

Sid:  The devil has been trying so hard to separate Jews and Christians, but devil it’s too late because there is a move of God’s Spirit that is removing the spiritual scales from the eyes of Jewish people.  What Paul describes the glorious church because it is so explosive with the Spirit of God and the glory of God.  I mean when you walk into a gather of believers and when people hear me say church they think building.  No it doesn’t matter.  This is God’s house; no no no God’s house is we’re believers gathered together.  God’s house is in the believers not in the building.  When these believers come together; when that glorious church is restored.  When the Jewish olive tree comes back in that tree is going to get so healthy that people will walk into the gathering of believers whether it’s in your house or it’s in the cathedral it doesn’t matter.  The Spirit of God, the glory of God will be just so leased that everyone will be healed; they’ll repent to sins.  And then we’ll have what the Bible says and not the best we can do until we have what the Bible says.  I want what the Bible says; nothing more, nothing less.  Jesus said, “You will do the same works that I’ve done and even greater.”  I have a man on the telephone I’m talking to him at his home at Alexandria, Louisiana.  His name is Dr. David Remedious; David is a Vascular Surgeon but very different than most surgeons.  He’s one that hears God’s voice.  He’s one that operates in the gift of visions where he literally will be speaking to someone and have an open vision of how to solve their problem through surgery or perhaps another method.  On yesterday’s broadcast David you were talking about one of your patients, Dee Sap and will you continue.

David:  That is correct we were in the emergency room and of course we decide; she has a surgery abdomen wound and we have to take her to surgery.  Her husband and I; her husband is a minister and myself we just prayed and we just asked God to just intervene and for God to send His angels literally ministering spirits.  That’s exactly what I said “Lord send Your angels and ministering spirits into that operating room.”  Of course I pray that all the time before (chuckling) but little did I know that was what was about to occur  at that point in time.  And so I took her into the operating room and when I opened up her abdomen I was very surprised her gallbladder was gangrenous; this tumor in the transverse colon had totally obstructed her bowel, and the sekum was about to explode; so it was a very tenuous situation.  So at that point obviously what I would do because we’re dealing with infection.  This is just principals of surgery; these are just things that we’ve got to do.  This is very serious by the way; so I don’t want to make light of any of this.  This is extremely serious this is human life on the balance so to me obviously because of my professional training; because of the oath that I’ve taken and there’s a great sense of sobriety over my, if I even tell this story.  But I began to operate and obviously I would just take out the gallbladder and I would take out the colon; I’d take out the right part of the colon the right hemicolectomy obviously ileostomy and a colostomy and obviously as a surgical principal you’re not supposed to put the bowel back together because we had infection in the area.

Sid: Now did you prepare her ahead of time that that’s what you’ll do?

David:  There was no way of repairing the bowel because she was totally obstructed.  So that’s just the way….

Sid: Did you mention to her that she might need… or you

David:  Oh yeah about a colostomy yes.

Sid:  That’s a very radical thing it’ll be a total change of her life.

David:    Yes, correct and so as I’m doing that it was so clear that the Lord, the Spirit.  First of all there was a very… for one of the dramatic times in my career and I’m not in church and all of sudden the presence of God invades the operating suite.  So I’m very intensely operating I’m concentrating on what I’m doing.  And all of a sudden this wonderful incredible awesome presence just shows up in that operating room.  I’m going “This is awesome I recognize the presence of God” and I look around and look at the people and obviously my assistant is handing me the instruments and circling nurse is doing her thing and everything is going normal.

Sid: I have seen you in person when the power of God comes on you and you start shaking.  Oi vey if you’re a surgeon that’s shaking. (Laughing)

David:  (Laughing) Well, it’s amazing when the anointing comes on me when I’m operating my movements like at a church setting it’s become very very precise.  The concentration become extremely intense and so it’s sort of like; I don’t know it’s such preciseness that comes.  There’s an incredible tangible anointing and obviously losing control would not be of help in an operating room.  So God knows exactly how to direct our movements.  So I become very focused so I looked around me and it was so clear to me that the voice that I saw myself putting that colon and putting it back, sewing it back together.  And closing the skin; see I was supposed to have left the skin open.  And that’s just a normal basic thing that one would do as a surgeon.  And so I’m sitting there and I’m just thinking this and why would I be thinking this and why would I be thinking that.  I’m supposed to leave an ileostomy and colostomy and so for the second time it was so strong that so strong impression I’m trying to think logically.  “Well, that’s not right.”  I can’t be doing this and after the second time I just said out loud “I need another opinion.”  So I asked a colleague of mine to come in. A very wonderful surgeon came in and he looked.  And I said “What would you do so so?”  And he said “Well I would be ileostomy and a colostomy and I would leave the skin open.”  And I said “Well, that’s what I was planning on doing too.”

Sid: That’s the standard procedure

David:    Well of course, of course and by the way I’m not in any way making light of this because this is such serious and somber.  You understand this is very very serious and forget about license and forget about a title this is not even about this; this about a human being and their life.  And so I want everyone this is not just “Well, I just saw a vision and I just did it.”  Oh, no to me I was faced really with a most incredible, awesome sense of responsibility. This is the way I am trained I’m trained to save lives and that’s my passion.  But this was one of those moments when both seemed to come in apparent contradiction to each other. What do you do at that point?  What do you do?  Well, before me was a decision of “Well, if I obey what I’m feeling in my heart obviously I’m putting this person’s life in jeopardy and that’s you know no physician out there wants to do that.  And I’m not about to and I wouldn’t do that either because that’s very very serious and so.

Sid: And so if there were 100 vascular surgeons how many would approach this the way you approached it?

David:  What I ended up doing no I don’t think none of them.

Sid: Okay, go ahead.

David:   And that’s why literally God was asking me taking me out of my totally out of comfort zone and asking me to trust Him totally with what He was doing. And obviously I was thinking; this is not an easy decision.  I had a group of people around me and after that surgeon walked out of the room the third time He said just go ahead and do it.  So I said “Lord I do trust You and I do know Your voice.” And He did not come out for me to hear the voice of the Lord at that point but He had begun when I was a youngster in New York City. So I learned to trust Him and you know I want the people listening to me to understand that this is not; this is very serious and I did it and…

Sid: But wait a second David with what is going to happen of planet earth we need to hear His voice to save our lives based on.  Look when that tsunami hit if you could have heard God you would have run up to a high mountain with enough time.

David:  Right that is correct and that same voice that protected my life numerous times when I was younger now was there to save someone else’s life.  But at the same time everything that I had worked for all these years with so much sacrifice was also being put on the line.  So does that make sense; it was sort of like it was a very very… I was stepping back and I said “Okay, I know what He’s done I’m going to obey and I’m going to trust Him.”

Sid: I have to ask you a quick question this was a couple that was suing you over land; did it occur to you if you missed it the land suit would be nothing compared to what would have happened?  Oh, absolutely and that’s what made it even more dramatic to me because I went “Lord, are you serious?”  There was all these thoughts going through my mind but knew where my heart and I did it I closed.  I put the bowel together, I closed the skin.  

Sid: David, hold that thought we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to understand one of the biggest fastest moving heresies in the Body of Believers today. I have Dr. Michael Brown and we’re talking about his brand new book; it’s not in the stores yet but we have it available.  It’s called “Hyper-Grace” subtitled “Exposing the Dangers of the Modern Grace Message.”  Now Mike I just find it hard to believe that some people are teaching on such a marvelous subject of true Biblical grace.  You and I would not be here if there wasn’t true Biblical grace, but I find it so difficult to believe that some people are teaching some of the things that we’ll talk about today and others are believing it. For instance some are saying “Has God already forgiven all of our future sins, so we can do anything we want?”

Michael:  Well let see here is what they’d say none of them would say “You can do whatever you want.” The problem again is human nature being what it is; people struggling; temptation; the world; Satan.  We know that there is a lot in the New Testament that addresses purity of life and conduct and so on. If you’re told your future sins have already been forgiven; and that leads to a few other things.  I have several chapters in my book that deal with this.  And by the way the book is written so anyone can pick it up; whether you’ve been saved 6 months, whether you are a pastor leader, anyone can pick it up read it and follow it. I document every single quote even something from the internet; everything taken in context. Nobody treated in fairly; I say a hardy amen to all the good points these folks are making and then say “Caution, caution, danger.” So here’s the thing.  If you are told that all your future sins were forgiven the moment you got saved God not only said “Sid I forgive you; Mike I forgive you for shooting heroine, for stealing money from your father, for your pride, for your rebellion, for your lust, for your sin and everything else. I forgive you for everything you ever done; I give a clean slate I pronounce you righteous, My child.”  Not only that He also said “Mike I have already pronounced you forgiven for every sin you’ll ever commit for the rest of your life; don’t be sin conscience; don’t think about…

Sid: By the way that’s a very important phrase.  I’m the one you know 30 – 40 years ago there was legalism; today there is hyper-grace; they’re both just as bad.

Michael:  Both just as bad.

Sid:  Legalism you may not lose your salvation with the hyper-grace I think that you could.

Michael:  Well you see legalism drives a lot of people away from Jesus; I hate legalism.

Sid: Right.

Michael:   Legalism is externally imposed religion; legalism is laws without love.  It’s standards without a Savior; it’s rules without a relationship.  And it drives a lot of people away from God because they think that God is just there with some stick.  See Sid some people have very sensitive consciences they do one thing. A mom yells at her kid during the day; a guy has a stray thought during the day and they think “Oh no God hates me; God’s upset with me; just like that church that I grew up in you know if the men wore  jewelry or a wedding ring they were in the flesh.  If I went to see a G-Rated movie with my family I was going to hell.”  So now they here a message of grace and forgiveness and you’re accepted because of what Jesus did; it’s not by your works God loves you even on your worst day.”  And they hear these wonderful truths and it liberates them “I’m free.”  But then it gets mixed with this error that says “Sid the moment you got saved God forgave past sins, present sins, and future sins.”  Rather than what scripture says Jesus paid for them and forgiveness is transacted when we come to God and confess and recognize our sin and ask for mercy.  So if I’m told “Mike, all your future sins are forgiven don’t have a sin consciousness.”  Okay, God forbid I go out and blow it and I start losing my temper all the time around my family around my friends.  And someone says “Mike something wrong you’re out of control.”  No, no no man you’re putting condemnation on me; that’s sin consciousness; I’m the righteousness of God in Christ; I’m under grace; I’m not under law.”  See that’s what is happening.

Sid: What will it lead to if it isn’t stopped; what will that lead to in your opinion?

Michael:  Hardness of heart; backsliding and ultimately denying Jesus and walking away from God.

Sid: So that’s the same thing that happened with the legalism 30, 40 years ago!

Michael:  Exactly!

Sid: It’s the flip side the devil couldn’t succeed with the legalism but now he’s coming in the backdoor.

Michael:  Exactly.  And see here’s what I’m jealous for I’m jealous for the person that has a sensitive conscience; I’m jealous for the person that says “But Sid the Bible tells me that I’m to love God with all my heart; all my soul and all mind; all my strength and love my neighbor as myself and I can’t do it.”  And so we want to bathe them in grace; we want to bathe them in favor; we want to bathe them in the understanding that we are carried by what Jesus has done; He’s our strength; He’s our power and then.  And here’s what we need to recognize hyper-grace teachers also say “We are not supposed to forgive our sins to God and ask for forgiveness because we have already been forgiven.”  Some even say it’s a sin to confess sin to God to ask forgiveness.  You say “What about 1 John 1:9 “If we confess our sins He’s faithful and just to forgive us our sins.”

Sid:  And that was written to believers not to nonbelievers.

Michael: Right. Across the board I’ve documented Sid in my book quote after quote; they say “No, no, no.”  There were Gnostics there were these people who had heretical belief that were part of John’s congregations and that letter was addressing Gnostics who claim   to be without sin and encouraging them to turn in faith and be saved. Number 1: There was no such thing as Gnosticism in a hardened form in that day, there was beginnings of Gnostic beliefs but nothing that you could call Gnosticism. Let’s just say that the beliefs were circulating, but what John makes absolutely clear that the heretics had left. First John 2 “They went out from among us.”  1 John 4 “We have overcome them.”  So the “they” is always the heretics on the outside; every top John scholar in the world that I’ve read recognizes that the heretics are outside.  John is talking about to believers and saying “Look if we say we have no sin like some of these Gnostics say we deceive ourselves.”  And here’s what’s really important; anyone that can read Greeks knows this you don’t have to be a Greek scholar.  The Greek is ongoing present “If we confess our sins in an ongoing way.”  Sid the Greek is very precise; it’s a precise clear language.  It’s not saying “If one time when we get saved we confess our sins.”  It’s saying this is the way of life.  This is why it’s important, I blow it I’m driving here a car cuts me off; this didn’t happen hypothetically.  A car cuts me off I lean on my horn and I yell “You jerk, what are you doing?”  And I say “Father, I’m so sorry” wash me, cleanse me, that’s not me that’s not who I am I want to serve You.”

Sid: You get your peace back all of a sudden.

Michael:  Right, right but if I don’t do that because I’m the righteousness of God in Christ and I can’t even talk about that.  Now it allows hardness to come in. Now it allows justification of my sin to come in because hey God doesn’t see it.  Sid it is taught in hyper-grace circles that God doesn’t see your sin ever.  And every day He looks at you Sid no matter what you’re doing or how you’re living He’s thrilled with you and He’s singing your praises.  That’s contrary to the entire New Testament and you have to say if we’re never supposed to be conscience of sin why does Paul bring it up in his letters all the time?  Why does Jesus bring it up in His teaching?  It’s because sin is deadly and God in His love and goodness and kindness convicts us; not condemns us.  Condemnation is “Get away you’re guilty.”  Conviction is “Come near to me.”

Sid: You know what I’m thinking?  Here we have Hollywood saying “Sin is okay.”  We have television saying “Sin is okay.” We have our education system saying “There’s no absolutes” and now we have a large segment of the Church…

Michael:  God does not see your sin.

Sid: Yeah.

Michael:  God doesn’t see it and it doesn’t affect anything. 

Sid: Well, that is… I hate to say this but that is a brilliant strategy of the devil!

Michael:  It is it’s the spirit of the age.

Sid: It’s a masterful strategy. Mike why did you write the book?

Michael:  I was compelled to write the book.  Number 1:  Because I love the grace of God and I hate to see something polluted.  Number 2: Because I was watching life after life getting picked off and destroyed.  Number 3:  Because pastors and leaders around the world are saying “Mike, please write a book.”  In fact through you Sid we were able to bump up the publication date by 5 months to get this out.  That’s how urgent it is.

Sid: God wants this… I did what I had to do but it was really God. I’m telling you that you… if it’s not you you have friends and family that are going to get into this heresy.  Mike has quotes and he has names.  You know I was talking to our mutual friend Steve Hill about naming names and he said “Sid did you know in the New Testament when people were into heresy their names were named right in the New Testament.

Michael:  And here’s the thing; I want to help people so I say “Amen to the good things.”  Some of these people have gone off the deep end and are not even in the Lord anymore.  But those that are Brother and Sisters I plan on being with them for eternity; I’m jealous for them too.  I’m saying “I have a corrective for you; I’m reaching out to you; this is such a great message.”  Some of them have a great revelation of grace but they got so caught up with it they forgot to stay tethered to the word and start denying scriptural truths and rewriting things.  And especially if you can read the Hebrew and Greek you throw the teaching out in a split second.   I’ve reached out to them so far without success but I’m hoping that some will recognize the error that they’re mixing with the truth and will come right back to scripture.

Sid: And the anger that I bump into…

Michael:  Ooo.

Sid: When I talk about “But look at this scripture” and they start calling me names using scripture.

Michael: Yeah, one guy started calling me a jerk on my Facebook page and I said “You know I don’t take comments like that.”  I don’t know if he was a believer or not; I said “I hope that you really come to know God’s grace and love.”  And he writes back furious “How dare you say “I don’t know God’s grace and love; how dare…”  It gets’ really nasty with me and I said to him “You know actually if you were really touched by God’s grace and love expect a different response.”  I have a whole chapter on name calling, judgmentalism, divisiveness in the name of grace.  Sid I have never seen something nastier more divisive in the so called message of grace that’s gone forth today.     

Sid: And they say “There’s no need to confess sin and to repent and the Holy Spirit doesn’t even convict of sin anymore.  What a setup by the devil.

Sid: I want everywhere to know the Messiah and my guest is going to help you be discipled.  Because he has a translation of the New Testament with what I consider the freshest most alive translation I have read in a long, long time.  It’s almost like reading the New Testament for the first time. He calls it “The Power New Testament.”  He’s put  put together a couple of things in this translation because he’s not only a Hebrew scholar but he is a Greek scholar.  But he’s put together in this special translation his understanding of Jewish roots. But his understanding of the action words that were in the Hebrew language in the Jewish people where the first church were all Jewish believers and they were using these action words and they were using these action tenses.  And when you read this the reason that he calls it “The Power New Testament” is because that power is recaptured. I tell you the Holy Spirit will just come alive within you and understanding healing.  But somehow these Jewish roots and his Greek scholarship and his Hebrew scholarship it’s like a fresh reading of the New Testament.  Now there is a scripture and I’m speaking to the translator William Morford at his home in Lexington, South Carolina.  There’s a passage in the New Testament that I wrestle with and I image that everyone listening to us has wrestled with this and I’d like to get your understanding from a Jewish roots perspective and a power perspective. And it’s got to do with Matthew 5:17.Would you read that in your translation?

Bill:    “Do not think that I came to annul, to bring and incorrect in interpretation to the Torah or the Prophets; I did not come to annul but to bring spiritual abundance. For the Torah to be obeyed as it should be and for God’s promises to receive fulfillment. For truly I say to you; until the sky and the earth would pass away not one yod or one vav would ever pass away from the Torah, until everything would come to pass.”

Sid: And Bill the way you translated it it’s not a matter of salvation, it’s not a salvation issue, but it’s a matter of spiritual abundance. A matter of blessings and as a matter of fact there is another word you translate instead of saying law you say Torah. And when I see the word law I think of legalism, bondage.  But I have to tell you coming from a Jewish background which I do when I see the word Torah, which is the first 5 books of the Old Testament, I think of legalistic and bondage. But when you explain what the word Torah really means it takes on a whole new meaning. In your footnotes what does Torah mean?

Bill:  Torah actually means teaching or instruction.  And we have to view those commandments in there as the Lord teaching us.  He knows us because He made us and He made us in His image. He understands us totally.

Sid: You know the word instructions I’m almost thinking rather than Torah, rather than law, I’d much rather have the word instructions there.

Bill:  (Laughing)

Sid: There because to me that gives it much more meaning. In fact I’m toying… you and I are talking about putting together an Old and New Covenant, this is just a New Covenant.  And when we did… and I haven’t said this to you but I’d almost like to call it “The Book of Instructions.”  How does that sound to you?

Bill:  Oh, that sounds good it really does.

Sid: Well, I’d like you teach a little bit of some of these insights that you got from Eliezer Ben-Yehuda and from other studies that you just packed into “The Power New Testament.”

Bill:  Yeah, Eli was really spectacular just unbelievable.  To go to a Jewish Rabbi, which I went to him because he was the only Rabbi in town.

Sid: Yeah, but you didn’t even realize what a heritage this guy had; if it wasn’t for him we wouldn’t be speaking Hebrew today in Israel.

Bill:  That’s right.

Sid: I mean if it wasn’t for his grandfather that is.

Bill:  He is as brilliant as his grandfather.  He speaks 8 languages and he is a true man of letters and just a wonderful warm person. He was very very helpful. And showed me his grandfather’s dictionary. Which was really amazing.  Well, we won’t get into that but…

Sid: But so the Mishpochah understand this his grandfather is the one that pioneered modern day Hebrew to be spoken language in Israel. And he had a dictionary and he literally came up with a lot of these Hebrew words, isn’t that true?

Bill:  Yes and he went to root words to find modern words to fit like “Ice Cream.”  He went to frozen milk and called it “glee-dah” in Hebrew.

Sid: Huh.

Bill:  But you know his dictionary now gives the meaning of each Hebrew word in Hebrew and gives an example from the Hebrew scriptures of how that word is used in scripture.  And then he gives the meeting in German and French and English and in Arabic.

Sid: Now I happen to be looking at my notes here in Luke and this is my favorite reading Bible and Luke 2:44 when there was a problem and Jesus was at the temple and they thought he was lost. You explain something that no one would understand. Explain that from Luke 2:44.

Bill:  Right when the people went to Jerusalem for a feast or any special occasion they go in a large group for safety.  And leaving Nazareth to go to Jerusalem the men would walk at each end of the column and the woman and children would walk in the middle.  But on the way home Jesus had been through the 1^st century equivalent of what we now call the Bar Mitzvah And he would have gone home as a an adult. So they got a whole day away before Mary and Joseph realized that Jesus wasn’t with them. Because Mary knew that he wouldn’t be with her and Joseph would just assumed he was with other relatives at the other end of the column.  Then they had to go back to Jerusalem and spend 3 days looking for him.

Sid: You know another interesting thing you bring out, how many times is the word church found in the New Testament?

Bill:  Zero.

Sid:  And yet all of these translations say church. What does the Greek word really say?

Bill:  Congregation.

Sid: And what a difference because when I hear the word church I think building; but when I hear congregation I think people.

Bill:  Right.

Sid:  It makes a world of difference.

Bill: It does and it’s all about people and that’s still what God cares about today it’s our people.  I think that’s one of reasons that home churches are doing so well.  Like Yonggi Cho started, my goodness the people in his church can’t possibly get into the building because they number in the 100’s of thousands, but they really do well and grow spirituality in home meetings.  And it’s the congregation that’s being re-abled to relate to a pastor who knows you, who cares and who lays hands on you in a regular basis.  Just as Jesus laid hands on people all over Israel.

Sid:  Tell me about some of these idioms or Hebrewisms. For instance in Matthew 16:19 we talk about binding and loosening. What does that really mean?

Bill:  Well, to bind is to forbid in Hebrew and to loose means to permit. And what’s really significant about that goes on “I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven and whatever you would bind upon the earth would already have been bound in the heavens with ongoing affect.” See that particular tense in Hebrew, I mean in the Greek, means that.  And whatever you would loose upon the earth will already have been loosed in the heavens with ongoing affect.  So it means that we don’t bind anything that we don’t like because we don’t like it. But what we bind to be affective in that binding it must be something that has already been bound in heaven.  In other words, we have to go by God’s word and not by just things that bother us.

Sid: Okay, so for example you explain that many times in Bibles they translate sickness and they really should translate it evil.  So we know that from the word of God that God wants us to forbid evil.

Bill:  Absolutely.

Sid: And do you see this Mishpochah by understanding this I can see clearly why you call this “The Power New Testament.”  Give me one other quick example.

Bill:  Matthew 7:21 is a good one. While we’re in that book 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom of the heavens but the one that does the will of My Father; the one in the heavens. Many will say to Me on that day Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your Name?  And we cast out demons in Your Name and did many miracles in Your name.  And then I will declare to them that “I never knew you.”  You working without Torah must continually depart from me.”  So Jesus is saying you have to go by the teachings, by the scripture. And what is the second most commandment we have the second most important is “Love your neighbor as yourself.”  That’s why in Matthew 25 He talks about whatever you did for the least of these you have done for me.”  Those are the significant… that’s where our focus needs to be and doing His will is in taking care of other people.

Sid: Oops we’re out of time.

 

Sid: My guest is Pastor Charles Cowan Pastor of Faith Is The Victory Church in Nashville, Tennessee.  I’m interviewing him on his brand new book titled “How to Deal With the Cares of Life.”  You know Charles it talks about the seed being the word of God and then different types of ground.  And one type of ground it talks about that when the testing comes you’re not going to stand; when the cares of life come you’re not going to stand.  Explain the different type of ground.

Charles:  Well you know Jesus talks about you know the stony ground; He talks about you know about the different levels there now.  Here’s what will determine what type of ground that an individual might be.  Whatever an individual allows to go on in their mind will control the level or will control the kind of soil or ground that they become. Also what they allow to go on in their mind controls the level of peace that they will enjoy in life. So what we have to do we have to be sure we become the good ground for the word of God.  Now what Satan does with these cares that he brings they are specifically designed to steal the word of God out of the believer.

Sid: Alright, what is the Bible mean by the phrase “Cares of life?”

Charles: It means distraction, cares just simply means the distractions of life that will distract us from God; distract us from what God has said, distracting us from the word of God.  Now they could come in the form of financial lack, it could come in the form of even sickness and disease, it could come in the form of family relationships.  There is a multitude of ways that care can be introduced into the life of a believer, or the life of any person.

Sid:  What about the people that lived in Washington, D.C. when that the shooter was just murdering people at random and no one knew what happened and they were literally afraid to go out of their house?

Charles: See they were terrified, that situation brought so much fear to that community; that community was terrorized.  Not just by the individuals that were using guns, but they were terrorized by this thing called fear.  And it is a work of the enemy; it is called a spirit the spirit of fear.  So they… every time they stepped outside their home they had to deal in their thinking with these thoughts of “Could I be the next one?  Where would the next place that this terrorist will strike.”  So yeah, they had to deal with that in their mind and if they didn’t know how to deal with that in their mind in their thought life it would actually drive them into their house and they would not come out of their house for fear of what might happen to them in a situation like that.  Well now that’s what Satan seeks to do; he seeks to drive every one of us as it were into our house so that we will not come out in the advancement of kingdom of God; in the advancement of the word of God.

Sid: How about someone that witnesses and the person they could have witnessed to someone like my father.  I come from a Jewish background and I remember a Christian friend of mine came up to me one time and he said “I sat next to your father, I didn’t know he was your father, but the minute he mentioned your name I started witnessing to him and he screamed so loud I ran out of that restaurant.”  That man may never share again with another human!

Charles:   Well that’s true now until he’s taught; until he gets into a place where he can be taught how to deal with that to overcome that.  He may never do it; that situation may have been on his mind that every time that he thinks about witnessing fear is the thing that grips his thoughts and mind.

Sid: Alright what should he do; what should he do?  What should he do let’s take this example right here. If that were you what would you do?  You just had this traumatic encounter in witnessing, the devil is telling you in every fiber of your being “Never witness again that’s someone else’s ministry.”  God has said “This is the purpose that your living.” Now what are you going to do Charles?

Charles  When that happens you have to determine which way you’re going to go, you’re going to determine if you’re going to go with the thing that’s bringing the stimuli to you that external thing.  Or you have to determine if you’re going to follow what you know that the word of God tells you to do.  How He tells you from His word how to handle your particular situation.  And so you determine then that you’re going to go by practicing what you have read from the word.  Putting it into practice what you know that the word of God says.  You know the word says “Casting all of your care, or casting all of your distraction over on Him because He cares for you.”  So you simply make the choice, and I say simply, yeah that you simply make the choice that you are not going to follow what the external thing is that has created the emotions and the feelings that you’re having.  But you’re going to do what God tells you to do going to set your mind on Him on His word.  And you’re going to put it into practice and become a doer in what God has instructed you to do; so that God’s power and God’s Spirit can work with you and work for you to bring you above that situation.  You know Peter and his writings say “Cast all your care on Him for He cares for you.” And that verse before he says “Humble yourself under the mighty hand of God that He may exalt you in due season.” In other words, the word exalt means that He elevate you above what it is that you are dealing with in your life at that point in time.

Sid:  So what you’re saying again in other words it’s a choice but when you choose to side with the word of God you get elevated supernaturally to be able to demonstrate it.

Charles: That’s exactly right. Now we talked about it today one day earlier here that “How can two walk together except they agree.”  God’s power is available to me to exalt me or to elevate me above this situation but I’ve got to come into agreement with Him.  And so therefore I have to make my mind I have to make up my mind that I am going to go God’s way no matter what I feel, no matter what the emotions may be that I’m feeling.  No matter what the situation is that I’m dealing with that I’m going to go God’s way so I’m going to cast that thing over on God.  And say God here it is “You take care of it now elevate me above it so that I can walk victorious over it and move on with my life so this thing does not bog me down and keep me in a defeated place in my life.” So it’s a matter of a choice, all of us make choices.  We make choices about a lot of things every day and the word of God is no different. God does not make choices for us; he does not force us to do things that we do not choose to do.  He said “I have set before you life and…

Sid:  I wish He did; I wish He forced us to do the right things.  I mean He’s just too good.    It would be easier to be forced.  I’m that pragmatic type of person I wish it wasn’t a choice but it is.

Charles: It is a choice and He made us that way and gave us this power of choice and the freedom of our will.  Because He wants us to follow Him and to walk with Him and to worship Him out of the freedom, or out of our freewill because we want Him and He’s not forcing us to take Him.  Everything that we do where God’s concerned is a choice it’s a choice whether a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, or whether they don’t.  It’s a choice whether or not whether the read the Word of God; it’s a choice of whether or not they think upon the word of God. Everything in life it’s a choice; we choose to get up in the morning; we may not want to we may not feel like it but we make the choice “I’m going to get up because there are things I need to tend to through the day.”  So if a person doesn’t make up their mind or does not choose to follow God God is not going to force them.  But His power that’s available to them is not going to be there for them because they haven’t chosen to agree with Him so God’s power cannot work for them in that situation.  So choices every day we make choices, and so He said “I set before you in the book of Deuteronomy I’ve set before you life and death, blessing and cursing therefore you choose life. Now listen to this you choice life that both and you and your seed may live.”  Every choice that we make affects more than just us as an individual it affects our seed.  And so God lays out there before us what He wants us to choose; but He lets us do the choosing.  And when we choose Him and choose to walk with Him then He comes together with us and His power is made available with us.  And He then will elevate us above the cares, the distractions, the problems whatever it is that’s come against my life He will elevate me above that and will bring me into a place of peace and cause me to have victory in every area of my life. So that’s what we have to do; we have to choose choose choose His word; choose what God said; choose to think on what God says.

Sid: I suggest that everyone listening make another quality choice; we are dealing in a tough world.  I don’t think it’s ever been as bad as it is today.

Sid: My guest is red hot for the Messiah how could he help it. The last 10 years this American Jew that is red hot for Jesus made aliyah, immigrated to Tel Aviv, Israel.  I’m speaking to him by way of telephone right now. Ron Cantor we’re talking about your new book “Identity Theft.”  It’s written as a novel and the premise is so amazing a Jewish reporter does his investigation about who Jesus is but does it an amazing fashion.  He has an encounter with an angel; and then in a time machine he goes back throughout history to see how something so Jewish has their identity stolen from the church.  As a matter of fact I understand that as people read your book first of all they can’t put it down, second of all they’re getting information that nowhere else on the planet are they going to get.  Because very few pastors understand the Jewishness of the New Testament, therefore how could they teach it.  And then you understand why so much confusion in the Jewish Community about who Jesus is.  A lot of Christians say “I don’t understand why Jewish people don’t believe in Jesus.”  But people are saying their intimacy goes off the top when they read the book, explain.

Ron:  Well, the main character David as he begins the search he’s learning all of these new things but as he get deeper into this search I don’t want to give away the whole book but in chapter 24 and 25, people write me all the time. Ron, I got to chapter 24 and it wrecked me; it crushed me I was in tears.  What they don’t know is that when I wrote those chapters I was weeping.  Sid I have never written a novel in my life and it was the most amazing experience because it was like the characters were directing me.  And I didn’t… I’ve heard from other writers that it’s often how it happens but it was such a unique experience for me and when I got to chapter 24 and 25, which I didn’t know they were 24 and 25 at the time. He meets the Messiah he meets the Messiah in Jerusalem, in the year 30 just before his crucifixion that’s all I’m going to say.  All I can tell you is that he has an encounter with Yeshua that is…it broke me I literally was writings these chapters and crying because I was so Identifying with the character.  I have people write me all the time and just talk about how they know; they now know Yeshua Jesus in a whole new way.

Sid: Okay, explain to me why in the Old Testament there’s a sister of Moses and her name is Miriam and then in the New Testament there’s the mother of Jesus and they call her, not by her name which is Miriam but they call her Mary.  And that’s true for a lot of the Jewish people in the New Testament; why was that high jacked?

Ron:  Well, it could have been innocent simply because if you take the name Miriam and translate it to English it becomes Mary or Maria.  But it’s interesting that in the Old Covenant which is my Old Covenant that I read in English; they didn’t change the name of Miriam the sister of Moses to Mary when the…. probably because when they went straight from Hebrew to English, whereas in the New Covenant they went from Hebrew to Greek to English.  And it’s the same thing with the name Joshua; a lot of people don’t know it but the name Y’hoshua is the long form; that’s the name Joshua in Hebrew but it’s the long form of Yeshua a shortened form.  Yeshua and Joshua is basically the same name; when I tell people here about Yeshua the Messiah they often think that I’m talking about the Old Testament to your Joshua.  And I have to explain to them and say “No, this is the Son of God the Messiah.” And we see that with Peter.  If I told you a story about Peter, James and Mary or Peter, Paul and Mary as the old band you would say this not a Jewish story.  But if I told you a story about Shaul which was what Paul’s name was.  By the way he never changed his name.  The Bible never said he changed his name.

Sid: But wait a second many Christians say his name was Saul but then his new name was Paul; what would you say?

Ron:  I would say that ridiculous because Paul at the time wasn’t a Christian name it was a typical Roman Latin name.  There was nothing spiritual about it; the truth of the matter is that most Jewish people; you probably have two Jewish names Sid.

Sid: I do, it’s whatever nations were in like my name if Sidney in the United States but in Israel it’s Yisrael.

Ron: Right so your parents gave you two names a Jewish name and then an American name.  My parents named me Ron but I also have a Jewish name Chaim and it’s very normal.  So Paul when in a Roman speaking world he was Paul; when he was in Israel amongst Jews he was Shaul or Saul, he had two names.  The Bible doesn’t say that he had an epiphany and suddenly took on a Roman name to replace his Jewish name that would be ridiculous.  Then we have Peter the word peter is not actually a name but it’s become a name.  It means rock; it comes from the Aramaic word Kepha, which is what Yeshua called Peter when he said “Your name is no longer Peter, rather no longer called Simon you’re going to be called Kepha you’re going to be called rock.  It was a very cool name but again, when you refer to people as Peter, as Paul as Mary you don’t think Jewish.  You don’t think a Jewish story; I want to tell how about Yakov the bother of Jesus name was Jacob.  Yet in every English Bible in the world just about it says that his name is James.  Nobody ever… James is a great name if you’re a butler, if you’re a….

Sid: (Laughing)

Ron:  But it’s not a Hebrew name; a Hebrew name is Jacob.  The Book of James is actually the book of Jacob.

Sid: How about something like communion and last supper and the Passover Seder.  You don’t even get the connection that the last supper was a Passover Seder.

Ron:  Right.  Well, David has that revelation in the book when he gets to view the last supper and he realized that it’s a Passover Seder that the imagery is amazing because Yeshua becomes the Passover Lamb who spills His blood for us.  The blood that in the Exodus would to on the doorpost of your house; it’s now the blood of the perfect Lamb of God Yeshua and it goes on the doorposts of our hearts.  And so when John His cousin, John the Baptist, saw Him a few years earlier he had a revelation.  I believe personally that it was a first time that he understood that Yeshua was the Messiah and then He said “Behold the Lamb of God the Passover Lamb who takes away the sins of the world.” But when Yeshua took that cup and he took the bread; the Matzah and He said “This is My body and this is My blood” this was in the middle of a Jewish Passover Seder.

Sid: So if we denude all of the Biblical feasts from Christianity we miss a whole lot of the New Testament.

Ron:  Absolutely, and the second coming. The Bible says very clearly that when Yeshua returns Zachariah 14 He’s coming back to Jerusalem to fight for Israel. His feet will land on the Mount of Olives and He will set up His Messianic Kingdom in the great city.  Then the world of the Lord will go forth from Zion to the nations of the world.  And then He says “Any nation that will not come up to Jerusalem to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles is going to be in big trouble.”

Sid: What would you say to believers that have turned against the Jew in Israel?

Ron:  I would say “Be very careful because the great hope of the Body of Believers is the return of the Messiah,” that’s what we long for.  That’s the longing of Paul as he writes the epistles we’re looking for His return.  And when He does return Sid He cannot and will not return to an anti-Semitic bride.  I cannot that He as a Jew is going to return to a bride that hates Him, that is against Him or that believes that His people have been rejected by God.  As someone said to me recently, “Jesus is not going to marry anyone that doesn’t like his mother and his mother, Miriam, is a Jew.

Sid: Well as far as I’m concerned that’s settles the argument.  But Ron you wrote the book with humor and it’s so poignant.  And because it’s a novel but all the facts are historical facts people are… Are people reporting to you they can’t put it down?

Ron:  Yes, in fact… Evan Horton the Senior Pastor of Brownsville Assembly of God when there was the great revival in the 90’s he wrote me and said Ron as soon as I started reading I couldn’t put it down.  Don Finto from Tennessee a very well know pastor and author he said “From the introduction he was glued, never put it down.”  Then I’ve gotten emails just from around the world who have said “Ron…

Sid: Oh, it’s going to change your paradigm of understanding who Jesus is and it is going to literally increase your intimacy with the Lord like you’ve never had it before.