Sid: I have on the telephone a man that’s spent 30 years archiving all of the records he could find and videos and audio cassettes of the greatest miracle ministries the world has known.  And he has the most expensive collection of archives of these materials….As I said to you John in another broadcast my favorite is Branham. The way that he would look at complete strangers; he would actually see lights over people’s heads.

John: Hmm hm.

Sid: And would you explain that?

John: Well it’s just what the Bible talks about a wonder it makes you wonder.

Sid: A sign and a wonder.

John: Signs, wonders and miracles and God demonstrated that in this tremendous move of the Voice of Health Ministers in the 40’s and 50’s there.  And Braham was just a unique guy some of his early messages we have I was looking at one prior to getting on this interview. And there was just a simple message called “Paradox.” He talks about how Joshua says to the son “Be still.” Well that’s a wonder you see and that makes you wonder and he talks about a person who is born again one of the greatest miracles in the world is when a person is born again and received Christ in his heart he’s a transformed person. And again I have my whole life that people couldn’t believe that I was saved you know this was the guy who was drinking and cussing and carrying on and being bad and now he’s a you know a goody goody.  It makes you wonder what has happening in that person’s life.  Branham has such a power and a walk with God that I don’t think the half has really been told about his ministry his early ministry. I know that I’ve met his daughter did an interview on her I’ve been in his home. I saw where he studied at, I’ve been to the place up in the mountains where the angel visited him and not that I was looking for any kind of experience but this was for getting a feel for the man. My thinking is like this “What was in the mind of say General Robert E Lee at Gettysburg what was he trying to achieve.” What was AA Allen trying to achieve, what was Branham trying to achieve?  They all had a commission from God to achieve something to get something done in a time and space world here and some of them completed it and some of them didn’t.

Sid: Okay tell me what the mission assignments from God for the 3 were.

John: First of all they were to be a witness to this generation with signs, wonders and miracles. Secondly they were to perpetuate that ministry through other people. And third to preserve, if you please, the integrity of the ministry and the closes person that came to that was Allen.

Sid: You know looking at them or even reading about people in the Bible was they…why couldn’t they have done this? Why couldn’t they have been better but it is a tough road to have a miracle ministry and walk in humility.

John: Walking in humility is not easy thing. When you have the decree…let’s stop and think for a minute you’ve got to and the audience you’ve got to…what if you had in your hand creative power to change the lives of people and the environment around you?  Let me tell you something there are very few humble people walking around.

Sid: Is it true that Branham was offered very exorbitant sums of money and just turned it down?

John: I have talked to 26 Voice of Healing preachers, 26 of them personally, and everyone that I’ve talked to said “William Branham was the most humblest man that they have ever met. Now when you’ve got 26 people testify to your credibility that’s something.

Sid: Tell me what affect it’s had studying all of the lives of all of these great men and women of God what affect does it have on you?

John: Well it gives me a deep appreciation for the mercy and the grace of God in people lives because first of all if I’d been God I wouldn’t had picked any of them.

Sid: I mean say take Kathryn Kuhlman for example.

John: Hmm hm.

Sid: She used to actually say she was not God’s first choice.

John: I believe that.

Sid: But God did not want a woman that spoke in that affective manner just… but He chose a lot of other people but according to her these men turned God down. How does a man turn God down for a miracle ministry?

John: Well it’s done actually William Branham did and he ended up losing his family in that great flood in that Ohio River.

Sid: That’s right I read about that.

John: Such heartache brought him to a place of surrender. Now I personally had to have to go through something like that I’d be scared to death to cross God not that God’s standing up there with a big hammer ready to belt us in the head because His grace is sufficient. I’ve lost God in my own life in 30 years of pasturing deal with people to get them into their ministry.  I’ve talked to I can’t tell you how many people that I know that God’s called them to a particular field of endeavors.

Sid: And why does someone turn God down knowing that’s what they’re created to do?

John: Well fear and selfishness are probably the 2 culprits that I would say that would grab a hold of a person’s heart not willing to pay the price.  I thought it to…I can’t tell you men that are ministering that would say “I am not going to go into a larger base ministry like saying going on to a radio or television knowing that they had the ability to go and the means to go but they didn’t want that kind of exposure they didn’t want their family to be…you know look at the travel time that some of the ministers that have put in today. Just hypothetical look at Benny Hinn look at the travel that he must have to do and how much time can he possibly have with his family?

Sid: As you said many times this week there’s a price to pay.

John: There is a price yes sir.

Sid: What about you? Tell me after having studied all of these men and women with the best archives imaginable?

John: Hmm hm.

Sid: How has God used you?

John: Well He’s using me just like He said that He would be using me with those pictures where tumors disappeared and blind eyes opened and the lame walked and all of that I’ve seen that in my own ministry 100’s of times.

Sid: Have you see these things in the United States a lot of people see these things outside of the US what about you?

John: I don’t have a problem ministering in the United States.  I mean I’ve only been out to Mexico and I actually seen more here in this country than I did see in Mexico.

Sid: Tell me what to you was the most vivid most exciting one miracle of a physical nature that you’ve seen.

John: There was a lady and I don’t think I’m going to say this right but her head was laying on her shoulder and her back was twisted, scoliosis, and she was probably 60 – 65 years of age. And it was a very powerful service and this would be probably had to understand for some folks but there is an energy that comes on you a power that comes on you and you don’t even think about what you’re doing. And when she came up and says “I want prayer for my back.” And I just picked her head up off her shoulder and I just straightened her up and she became straight and walked away.  Blind eyes one of the first miracles that I’ve ever saw in my life in my own ministry was a man who had a long white cane with you know with 5 or 5 inches of red on the bottom of it and he was healed in the first revival I had ever had.

Sid: That’s got to be forget the first just to see someone’s that’s blind get their sight back I mean it’s…

John: Yeah.

Sid: …that’s the way that it’s supposed to be but in most services that we go to for miracles we don’t see the blind and the deaf.

John: Well here Sir is an example of what we talked about pre getting onto this interview and that is “How do you know what God wants to do in a service?”  Because there are services where He doesn’t heal them.

Sid: And you may want something but that’s not what God’s after.

John: That’s right and most people where a lot of these ministers got in trouble because they were labeled as a healing….what if you went to a Benny Hinn Meeting and there was no healings take place and because he said that God wanted to just have a prayer meeting you see.

Sid: I had a meeting recently…

John: Uh huh.

Sid: Where I had come off a string of services with major types of miracles and I just flat expected it. And what God wanted it was a tremendous outpouring of God’s Spirit for repentance but I was after the physical miracles.

John: And I’ve made that mistake.

Sid: And I missed it.

John: Yeah and I have to and a lot of other preachers have missed it. Now in that when I told you about the man that was blind my first meeting was that I had a visitation of an angel and I went into a vision and I saw the scripture that I was going to preach. Now you’ve got to remember this was 30 some years ago I was a no novice I knew nothing and I saw the scripture that I was to minister on, how to minister…

Sid: How far ahead of the meeting did this happen?

John: This happened about a week before the meeting.

Sid: Okay go ahead.

John:  And I saw the people that would be in the meeting and when I got there it was exactly how He showed me.

Sid:  You don’t have to work up your faith when you see that.

John: No you don’t know you don’t! And it just gives you a confidence that you would otherwise not have and that’s the importance of following the anointing.  Now I liken in following the anointing as when the cloud lifted when Moses was in the wilderness with the Israelites and when the cloud was over the tabernacle.  When it lifted that’s when they got the signal to get up and move and when it stopped that’s when they made camp.  And we have got to be sensitive not that we’re looking for visions and all of this sort of stuff.

Sid: Listen we’re coming into times right now forget the healing ministry, we’re coming into times right now if we can’t hear God it can cost us our life.

John: Absolutely.  And I’ve had experiences like that to where I hadn’t listened to God and it almost cost me my children’s life.

Sid:  We’re out of time…

Sid: I have a friend by the name of Israel Pachtar; I’m butchering your name Pachtar is that good?

Israel: Yep…

Sid: Well an Israel and I just got back from Israel of course that’s where he lives and we had an historic outreach.  More Jewish people made professions of faith that were gathered in on place at one moment.  It was almost 650 people made professions of faith these are Jewish people, these a non-believers in the Messiah this is Jerusalem, Israel. A friend of mine who is a second generation Messianic Jew Samuel Smajda said that they have experienced this type of evangelistic activity in Israel since Pentecost when Peter gave a few paragraphs.  At this that is the way it is in the New Testament he spoke a few paragraphs and 3000 Jewish people accepted Jesus. Well it wasn’t 3000 but I’ll tell you what I am still in awe, amazed, I almost have to pinch myself Israel that it happened!

Israel:  Yeah its history in the making.

Sid: But you know what I want you to get to know my friend Israel because this is such an unusual background.  He was born in a place that’s in the news a lot Ukraine, Crimea and that where there’s a lot of activity between Russia and the Ukrainians and you’ve been reading about in the newspaper.  So you were born there you had a great grandmother that didn’t know a whole lot about Judaism although she was Jewish it was just that that generation and since they actually took away the Jewish identity as much as they could. But she knew something better than Judism she knew God was real and she instilled that in you.

Israel: Yes.

Sid: But then your age 7 you go to school and what does the teacher say?

Israel: Oh my teacher said you know and it’s the 3^rd grade teacher like a god for you I don’t remember that age but (Laughing.)

Sid: Maybe I don’t remember, I never thinking that my teacher was like god but go ahead (Laughing.)

Israel: Okay high respect and she made all the class quiet and said “I want to make an important statement.  And she said “There is no god.”

Sid:  How did…wait wait you’re at a point your grandmother gives you instills this and your great grandmother instills this and you’re starting to pray to God.

Israel: Yes.

Sid: How did you feel?

Israel: I feel confusion, big confusions and she kind of brought the reasons and kind of a sense an astronaut he had been up there is no God.

Sid: Oh, this is awful.

Israel: She said “Only stupid people believe in God.”

Sid: Ah.  And remember now at that time there is no synagogues in Crimea there’s no churches in Crimea. So what did this little kid do he had such a touch I believe of God I believe from your great grandmother that despite that you still prayed a little bit to God.

Israel:  I have a week 7 days not praying.

Sid: Ah huh.

Israel: After the story kind of going and thinking of all of this confusion and then I played with my kids and I was going to come home late and I should be punished by my parents. So I prayed again and God really helped me so my faith came back.

Sid: (Laughing) But at 17 you continued praying and you would feel something when you prayed what would you feel?

Israel: I really feel that God is that he is that there is something more I’d been talking to the Lord of any possible friend that were open to speak about supernatural. And I just carried this thought I actually like you when I die or when people are dying there is nothing?

Sid: Yeah, isn’t that an awful, that’s the most objectionable thought as a kid.

Israel: It drive me crazy I stopped and looking at the stars and thinking I like the history and thinking about all the great people died and so faith kind of was growing in me.  But I had no directions like you said in my city we had pretty big Jewish community but not even one synagogue.  The synagogue became the cultural center music school and many other activities so I have no body to ask questions so I just been wondering and speaking to heavens and speaking to God.

Sid: But did you feel that I know He answered that prayer but did you really feel his presence I guess is the best question?

Israel: Yes it is really a good way to put it I really felt His hand on my life and I have seen many prayers…

Sid: Was it tangible I mean could you I mean like now as believers I can feel His presence come on me could you feel a degree of that even as a nonbeliever?

Israel: Probably not.

Sid: Okay.

Israel: But in certain times and quiet time it would grow stronger and I just just came to total conclusion that God exists and I knew that I don’t know Him but He’s there. At the age of 17 I really started to speak to God every day, praying, I’d pray every day.

Sid: It’s amazing you know you have to understand that he knows nothing about Judism for sure knows nothing about Christianity.

Israel: No of course.

Sid: But you don’t know when you plant a seed in someone his great-grandmother planted a seed in him that if she hadn’t done it I think it would have been finished with God in you when your teacher says there is no God.

Israel: Yeah most likely.

Sid: Okay so then at 18 he meets a brand new Gentile believer that tells him about Jesus and by the way Romans 11:11 “Salvation has come to the Gentile to provoke the Jew to jealousy they’re just being a Gentile believer that’s the God ordained call of ever Gentile believer.  By the say do you know what the God ordained call is of every Jewish-believer? We’re to be a light to the nations that’s the Gentile; now you get the Jews and the Gentiles together guess what you got?  The whole world!  God You’re so brilliant!

Israel:  Yes.

Sid: Anyway and you got baptized in the Holy Spirit the same day was it powerful or…

Israel: Oh yes it was powerful; I was really I just was ready and you know I came one to my mother’s grandmother’s village and I met there some group of people now I assume they were Pentecostal preachers.

Sid: You didn’t know.

Israel: And I was walking with my friend and I just came there right by the end they were staying downtown it was tourist days when it was allowed and legal to preach you know and they were sharing with a little group of people just boldly downtown village 15 people around 20. And I came at the very last words but it never called to repent to receive Jesus or anything but I felt the presence of God I really felt it. And they said “Well we’re coming next week come.”  But I just couldn’t make it next week it’s just gone.  So I see there just a little touch of the Holy Spirit now I’d been reading a book I don’t know if you know here in America but the book that was translated to many languages that book called “Satan in Moscow.”

Sid: No.

Israel: And actually it speaks about supernatural work Satan and God both.

Sid: Right.

Israel: And it’s really kind of also kind of rising my curiosity about Satan too.

Sid: Yes.

Israel: But I mean it just fell and I’d been focused on God even more after that book.  So you could see little different secular books draw in closer. And when I met this boy I was just ready; now it’s interesting but when he approached me and he said straight away “I’m going to share with you my new faith in Jesus.” And then all of the Jewishness I had in me come up; I mean really I’m just amazed supernaturally but all of the prejudice come up I don’t know where it come from.

Sid: You know something isn’t that just amazing that here he’s a Jew the Jewish culture means nothing you looked at him you wouldn’t even know that He’s a Jew culturally and yet you know what that is?  God said through the Prophet Jeremiah “As long as there is a sun and a moon and stars there will be a physical Jew on the face of the earth.” And there’s something of Israel and there’s something inside of me, there’s something inside of every Jewish person that goes like this “I was born a Jew and I will die a Jew.” And you have a Jewish friend that doesn’t go to synagogue or doesn’t do anything you think “Oh they don’t care about being Jewish.” Untrue right Israel?

Israel: Right, that’s right even the secular ones when it comes to real decisions they are Jewish.  So it’s really happed with me but then he was really smart it was the Holy Spirit I can tell you because I don’t know how he knew it how he could address it but he really said “But you know Jesus is for everybody and he’s for Jewish and by the way He was Jewish.” And you know that I really didn’t know that, I had no idea and he said “More than that he said “You know the holy apostles and by that he said at that time I knew about pictures and the ancient historical churches.”

Sid: Yes.

Israel: The one in the downtown just opened and everybody went there as a museum to see the pictures and I saw the pictures.  And I said “You know those guys the holy people of the Catholic church or Orthodox church they’re all Jewish.”  I was surprised, “Yes really.”

Sid: You know there’s a lot of Catholics and Russian Orthodox that would be surprised if they knew they were all Jewish but go ahead.

Israel: Yeah, they’re worshipping pictures but this is Jewish guys Jewish apostles.  So I said “Okay great.” I mean he really explained to me very well and he kept talking and then he spoke about salvation and about heal and heaven and the Holy Spirit.  So he brought me to the home group the little group of people just brand new home group and they said “Now it’s time to repent and to receive Yeshua and invite Yeshua into your heart.”  And I really sent to him yesterday and today I’m praying every day and he was shocked and I said “Really.” And I said yes but I said “Anyway let’s do that.” And he explained it a little bit more about Yeshua he’s a Jewish Savior as a Savior and he said “You know what try.” And I’d been kind of buying it and I said “You know what it sounds great it sounds reasonable it sounds good and I mean I will try.” So I really said to God I mean before praying and then I’d pray after him I said to God “I wish it would be true but I will try and if it is really truth so let it happen, let Yeshua come into my life, let Jesus come into my life.”  And then they said “Okay.” And then the prayer after him the moment I repeated a short prayer I just knew I changed, I was born again when Jesus came into my heart.

Sid: And when you were filled the Holy Spirit what happened?

Israel: Well 10 minutes later he said “New step Holy Spirit.” (Laughing) and let me pray for you for Holy Spirit okay, let’s go the same way.” He showed me a couple of scriptures I mean he was good by showing scriptures by the way and faith has been growing and growing and growing in me. And so I said okay so he prayed for me the same second I received the Holy Spirit and that was kind of one event from Holy Spirit just one thing altogether didn’t even mention difference the whole package in my life. So I came home same day Spirit Filled saved and I went to preach to all of my friends.

Sid:  But you know what that same thing happened to me and I happen to me and I happen to believe that’s the way that it’s supposed to be.  Somehow in America anyway we’ll make someone sit and be study for the next 3 years before they can be used. And then the zeal is gone and their not used.  I mean we’ve got it backwards here I mean you had a built in market everyone you knew was unsaved.

Israel: Everyone.

Sid: (Laughing)

Israel: He was first person that I ever met, first Christian I ever met in my life.

Sid: Huh well so you were called to preach the gospel immediately you would go to Bible school in Estonia where you meet your wife and you study Bible prophesy and it’s pretty clear the blessings of God for a Jew are found in only one land the land of Israel. The curses for God for a Jew or an evidence of a curse is you’re in the nations because that’s a curse. So he’s a smart guy so he and his wife decide based on Bible prophesy they’re going to go to Israel. So you go back to Crimea…

Israel: Now I’d like to share with you another story you know coming to this brand new home group and I started to come every day like no exceptions every day.

Sid: Me too.

Israel: Seven days a week.

Sid: I would go to meetings 7 days a week when I got immediately saved.  You don’t see this zeal and hunger today maybe it’s a different gospel I don’t know. (Laughing)

Israel: So I was coming everyday and these people showed me in the Bible and told me all kinds of stories they have seen on some tapes or somebody tell them or a story coming from then and here. And they told me lots of stories about healing and God can heal and He wants to heal everyone. So I just believe in it and it’s all in…and all of the teachers I have they’re been telling me and it’s written in the Bible and I just believe it like a baby you know. And at that time my Mom she was very sick, she was laying in the bed with kidney problems and she refused to go to the doctors so she was laying in the bed for a month. So coming from the home group when I heard the stories about healing and I hadn’t seen anybody praying for the sick because it’s a bunch of young people everybody healthy you know no need but I heard the stories. I came to my Mom and I said “Mom you know I became a believer because I told her I became a believer and the Bible says and I show my Bible and I just brought my Bible and I paid half of my salary to have my first Bible can you believe it.

Sid: Hm.

Israel: Anyway I said to my Mom “I want to pray for you for healing and God wants to heal you.” And then asked her “Can you turn back to me and I didn’t want her watching me because she’s my Mom and I’m just newly saved.”

Sid: Okay.

Israel: I prayed for my Mom and nothing happened to I went out and when I came back she opened door to me and she was totally healed. And she said “By the way when you left after 2 hours pain gone and I’m healed.” So first healing ever in my life I saw through my own prayer because I heard the stories but now I’ve seen it.

Sid: Well, were going to have something more for you but I have to tell you this Israel goes back to Crimea to settle things and move to Israel but in between he’s ministering to a woman that’s loaded with demons and he’s really upset over this and he leaves and shortly there after he leaves and he hears an audible voice of God what did God tell you?

Israel: God told me “God home to Israel.”

Sid: Did He say home?

Israel: Yes He said “God home to Israel.”

Sid: Yeah but when you told your wife what happened?

Israel: Oh she was happy, she was happy she knew that it was growing in her I mean I’d been in Bible school and coming back to the place of revival my kind of inner picture when are we going to go to Israel.  I thought “Now is revival we went to take part in revival and take part in revival and have a great harvest and then we would retire.” Just go to Israel and then the work will be done; but God interrupted and He changed our plans.

Sid: Okay God spoke to you, God witnessed to your wife, you go to Israel with a small son and $10?

Israel: Ten dollars cash (Laughing.)

Sid: How did you have that chutzpah that’s a Hebrew word for nerve, how did you do that?

Israel: I don’t know when God gave me a word.

Sid: Ten dollars a wife and a small child and going to a land you don’t even speak the language?

Israel: I didn’t know anybody.

Sid: Are you Mashuga?

Israel: Probably.

Sid: (Laughing) that’s another Hebrew word for crazy.

Israel: Yes.

Sid: Will be back in a moment with something more but I have to tell you something; you think you don’t know where Crimea is I was in Israel and I’m speaking to a group of Bishops and this Bishop says to me “Sid I want to tell you a story I’m living in outer Mongolia.” I don’t know where outer Mongolia is I know about Mongolian beef in a Chinese restaurant I even asked Israel he’s a world traveler he didn’t know where.  Well I looked it up on a map it’s just about Tibet in China outer Mongolia. And at outer Mongolia he turns on his TV and he sees It’s Super Natural.  Well his back is broken in 5 places an auto accident; he’s been in constant pain for 14 years.  The doctors say there’s nothing they can do for him.  His prognosis is he’ll get so doubled over he’ll have to be in a wheelchair he won’t be able to walk it was a horrible thing. So on TV I said “Someone’s back is being healed.”  And somehow he believed it and instantly he was totally healed and he tells me he has not had a pain in l year.  I said “Did you go back to the doctor? He said “No you only go to the doctors if you’re sick I have no pain.” Now that’s supernatural, now outer Mongolia I don’t even know…oh I do now where outer Mongolia is. But I’m so excited to make available to you this watch, it’s an old time pocket watch that railroad people would use. In fact on the outside is a railroad and it’s going to be the coloring is antique bronze plated gold plated train on the case and a 30 inch train.  And it has a scripture Psalm 102:13 “Now is the set time to favor Zion.” And it says Jewish Express it’s engraved in it. And God’s given me a vision of the Jewish Express see we Jews were scattered to the four corners of the earth and in the time of Hitler he would have trains that would take Jewish people to the gas chambers and everyone like you see these monkeys holding their ears, their eyes, their mouth they’re not going to speak anything and that’s the way the population was.  And they were being taken to these extermination camps and no one said a word. Well we Jewish people said’ Never again! And we mean that however I believe there’s another Jewish train and it’ called “Jewish Express.”  And this Jewish express is making stops all over the world collecting Jewish people that believe not taking them to the concentration camp a gas chamber but taking them to be ready for heaven.  They’re getting saved all over the world, the stops I’ve been to 2 already.  I’ve been to more many more but just recently I was in Jerusalem 650 unsaved Jewish people better than 98% stood up in mass made professions of faith. There were more healings than I could take the time to even count them….There’s something more an you are going to be amazed and I don’t know Israel Pachtar how you had the courage to do what we’re going to talk about we’ll be right back.

Sid: Sid Roth here with Perry Stone. Perry the revelation that you have so in so many different areas it’s almost like it’s all converging together right now, but so people will understand how you get these revelations and how we can understand keys to our future from them you work a lot with what you call types and shadows explain what that means.

Perry: Well one of the things that I’ve discovered as a young minister first of all I’m going to give you a little bit of background here. When I was felt the call of God to go into the ministry I was a teenager of 16 years of age. I was in intrigued with the prophetic books of Daniel and the book of Revelation. And I saw Daniel as a young man that went into Babylon but God used him to understand ministries. And I began to pray and I think this is the First thing: people should do when they want to understand the deeper things of God is to pray for wisdom and understanding of the deeper things and the deep things of God. So I prayed that for 2 years; after praying that I began to notice that when I began to read the Bible it was very easy once I began to read it to put scriptures with scriptures.  I would say “Wait a minute that verse goes right along with that verse over there.”  Of course I had a study Bible to help me put it together but I began to put verses together.  I began to study by subject when I got into the prophetic word which was again basically after my first trip to Israel I began to just devour and have such a hunger to understand what it was all about. To understand how it was going to come together, to understand how everything was linked together.  So a lot of this began first of all prayer for wisdom because James said “If you lack wisdom ask God and he’ll give it to you liberally.” and I held on to that.And the Second thing: is to have a love and a hunger to understand. And the Third part: and I really held the Lord to this where He said in the Book of Daniel “Seal up the book till the time of the end many should run to and fro knowledge shall be increased.” So I looked at that verse from every translation I could find and it basically is saying “When we come to the time of the end there’s going to be this very heavy unleashing unlocking of mysteries of the Bible especially prophetic mysteries.” And I simply asked the Lord “Lord help me to understand the mysteries of God.”  And I have to say that the way the Lord instructs me the things He gives me to teach people many times will say “Man I never heard that before this is the first time.” And I remember when I was younger people would kind of look at that and say “Well if you’ve never heard it before how do you know it’s true?” But they would always be able to go back to the Bible and see I was backing up everything entirely from the word. So when people for example you’re going to offer 6 CD’s that we have prepared for you; these are best I mean these are the ones that to me, I have one called “Living in Prophetic Crunch Time”  that’s absolutely off the chain in my book. It’s one of my favorites of all time.

Sid: And we’ll discuss that just a little bit and that is in our package of course.

Perry: Yeah exactly and so I’m just…I just believe that because we’re living in the time of the end it is the will of God for us to understand the things that normally previous generations it was not…let me say it this way they were not prepared to understand it. Let me give you an example Sid.  People said to me “Why is it that when you go to the time of let’s say 1500, 1600, 1700, 1800’s a lot of the ministers who were well known did not talk a lot about what we would term “The coming of the Lord for the church.” Now the word theological word for the catching away is the rapture.  A lot of people don’t like that word but I use it because people understand what I’m talking about.  And the answer is real simple #1 how can you preach the signs of the times the Lord’s coming when there’s no signs being fulfilled?  If you’ll think about it something like the 15, 16, 17, 1800’s you know there’s a civil war in America; there’s the American Revolution but as far as to have Biblical signs that you could point to and say “The Lord’s coming based on this Israel was not even a nation. The Jews were scattered around the earth; they were comfortable in Europe, America or where ever they were living it wasn’t the time for them to understand.  And only when the Biblical prophecies of the Biblical prophets begin to come to pass can the people who read the prophecy know this is happening now. And this is why in 1948 when Israel was reestablished as a nation suddenly there is this surge during the great healing revival, and thereafter from 1948 onward especially the 50’s there was this resurgence “Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming.” There were books written on the subject. The reason why a lot of the western ministers were so emphasized that greatly. And Sid I could tell you from studying it there were a lot of ministers who taught that Israel would never be a nation again until the Messiah Christ returned back to earth and then He would gather the tribes from the 4 corners of the world and they were teaching that. I mean denomination after denomination, minister after minister but ’48 that one day “What a message One Day in 1948.” In May 14 – 15^th when Israel is restored it shifted everything. And then went back to the prophet and said “Wait a minute Isaiah said a nation would be born at once.” Wait a minute Israel has to be a nation before the Messiah can set up His Kingdom because it is a nation when Messiah comes not after He comes when He comes.  This tied the timing of events began to trigger the men and women that studied the prophecy to begin to say “Something is up.” And when they took Jerusalem in ’67 and tore the concrete wall down with the barbwire and the country of Jordan, they annexed what was called east Jerusalem and united the Capital. And you’ve been there, I’ve been there and you can take tour buses in east Jerusalem, west Jerusalem, south Jerusalem, north Jerusalem, tourist all over the place people from all over the world coming. When that began to happen that was a second wave of understanding. And I would have to say that when about ’88, ’89 and 90 when in Russia the Jews began to come back from the north country and given the freedom to return that was the third wave that people said “Wait a minute we cannot interpret this to mean that all of these great things happen when Messiah steps foot on the Mount Olives, when Messiah rules for a thousand years according to Revelation 20 it’s happening now!  If it’s happening now what does it mean?  These become the signs of the time of the end.  And you can now disconnect it is impossible.  I get real amused at letters I receive from people or they’re email or something and they want to disconnect my preaching of Israel and my preaching of Jerusalem and the Jewish people and the blossoming of that they want to separate that from Biblical prophecy and make it an allegory, or say that the church is Israel, or the church are now the Jews, or you know kind of replacement theology.  But prophecies for Israel are for Israel, prophecy for the believer are for believers, prophecies for the nations are for the nations, prophecy for New Covenant believers and that’s where people have to rightly divide the word of God and say “Wait a minute yes you can look at this verse and apply it to us, but the primary meaning is the nation of Israel.”

Sid: You know Perry you talk about things I’ve never heard before even; you talk about I mean so many revelations. You talk about that we are in “Prophetic Crunch Time” I never heard that phrase before.  And you say that some of the most significant things are ready to happen. What does it mean when we’re in prophetic crunch time and how does that play out to us?

Perry: Okay I’m glad you asked that. In Ephesians 1: 9 and 10 it says “In the dispensation of the fullness of times God will gather together in one all things spoken in Christ both of things which are in heaven and which are in earth even unto Him.” Now there’s a phrase called the fullness of time or the fullness of times which is used in the New Testament. Now the first thing that we have to understand, I’m going to give you the abbreviated version here because on the offer you’ve got there’s a whole CD on this so I’m going to give a highlight point here 1 or 2.  There’s 3 ways that time is counted in the eyes of God number 1 is sabbatical cycles, every seventh day, every seventh year, every 7 times 7 years.  Then there is the Jubilee cycles every 50 years Leviticus 25, time can be counted on Jubilee cycles. We talked about the Rabbi who wrote about the 9 Jubilee cycles; then there’s something called covenant cycles and here’s what a covenant cycle is it’s Matthew 1:17 “So all of the generations from Abraham to David are 14 generations and from David to the carrying away to Babylon are 14 generations from the carrying away into Babylon and to Christ are 14 generations.  Now that’s a pattern 14, 14, and 14.  Point being that there was a set time for prophecy to actually happen, normally when a prophecy begins to happen it happens within a 24 to 48 hour period. You can say that… it’s like Israel becoming a nation when it happened it happened.  Jerusalem the third day of the war 10:00 in the morning they officially had Jerusalem so there’s a moment you know. But the closer you get to the moment time begins to get reduced or shortened that’s prophetic crunch time.  Galatians 4:4 and 5 “When the fullness of time has come God sent forth His Son born of a woman made under a law to redeem those who were under the law that we might receive adoption as sons.” Now here’s the key “When the fullness of time had come.” So here’s where we’re at we’re at times where prophecies are beginning to be fulfilled, milestones leading into stepping stones; stepping stones leading into major prophetic fulfillment. As we move closer the time of it being fulfilled is going to be reduced. Time is going to be shortened; the work will have to be done faster. The work will have to be done quicker that’s why Sid you are like a wild man on a mission. I am like a wild man on a mission.  We don’t waste a day, we don’t waste a week, we don’t waste a month, we’re every day looking for every day how we reach, how do we reach out, how do we win people; how do we touch lives?  Why are we doing it? Because there is a crunch coming in which you and I can sense we are around the corner to the big things the Messiah is making preparations for big things.  We have to get the job done in order to accommodate what He’s about to do.

Sid: Okay let me put this in my word and tell me if this is what you’re saying. We are in a set time where all prophecy is speeding up as has occurred in the past. It’s called prophetic crunch time, but things are speeding up to such a point that if we don’t redeem the time in this set season we may miss it.

Perry: That’s exactly…you hit it on the head I couldn’t have said it any better, that’s exactly what I’m saying with this, it’s exactly what the revelation of crunch time is exactly.  You know because God only gives all of us a certain time in our lifetime to complete everything He’s told us to do and there will be a generation you and I know Sid that will not die in the sense of natural death they will be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye and I hope that you and I both are in that generation of course.  But when we see the prophecies beginning to come to past the closer we get to for example the revelation of the anti-Christ the final 7 years of tribulation, the closer we get to some of these major, major prophecies we’re going to discover things start happening faster. You know Jesus said this “Wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilence, earthquakes in diverse places.” And then He said “When all of these things begin to come to past.” We’ve always had war, famine, pestilence, earthquake that’s always gone on we’ve always had those things. However when all of these things start happening at the SAME TIME that’s how you know you’re entering into the birth pains and you’re entering into the time of the end.  And that’s why you’re seeing so many wars, so many rumors or wars, so many up risings.

Sid: Perry we’re going to break right now but when we come back I want to know because we’re right in between these very prominent blood moon patterns on feast days I want to know why this is so important and why people are making such a big deal of it. And I also want to know something they’ve all left out that you’re going to tell us when we return.

SID: What I love about David Herzog, he says that part of a way of aligning with Heaven is to live in the Glory, and he says anything he can do, you can do better. You can align with Heaven. You can live in the Glory. Speaking of getting in alignment with Heaven, many of us have been robbed in our DNA by bad stuff. You go to a doctor and the doctor says it’s, you have heart trouble because it’s in your genes. And many of us have been robbed of blessings that our ancestors were robbed of and they can pass right through to us. I mean, this is an amazing concept. Explain this to me.

DAVID: Yeah. Well DNA and blood has memories. So yes, it has memories of sicknesses, of sins. You see people that have broken homes because their fathers had it. But then what people don’t realize, once you break the curse off your family life, you need to go back and say, now Lord, liberate all the blessings on my ancestors to me, the wisdom they had, the gifts, the talents, the abilities, the inheritances. When you start praying like that, suddenly things start to happen. Even abilities you did not have before that were dormant suddenly start to happen. You start to have business understanding. You learn languages very fast, natural gifts, spiritual gifts, amazing things.

SID: I have friends that have just the mind, if you will, to be a musician, the mind to speak different foreign languages. Are you saying that that can be, so they have good genes for that. Are you saying we can rearrange our DNA?

DAVID: There are some times where you have no gift at all in a certain area and you break the curse off your bloodline and you liberate the blessings off your bloodline with the blood of Jesus, and suddenly you have abilities you did not have before. They were encapsulated in your DNA, but they weren’t liberated. Like I started learning languages way faster that would normally take me a lot longer to pick up, Russian or German, and also in a few weeks I was speaking like three or four languages, conversationally, which it would take me way longer. Even my IQ went up. Something happened, like [Russian].

SID: Sounds good to me.

DAVID: I mean, I know the accent is quite bad, but I was just picking it up a lot faster. Stephanie tells me about this, in Daniel, God showed her that your IQ goes up in the Glory, because Daniel said he was ten times smarter, wiser than all the other men that were there in the king’s palace. And he didn’t say study more. He said God gave him all manner of wisdom, understanding, literature. So even your IQ can go up in the Glory.

SID: Tell me about Israel. What do you see happening there?

DAVID: I see in Israel what’s going to come and what’s already starting is a massive move of God, revival. Many, many Israelis are going to come to know their Jewish Messiah, Yeshua. It’s already started. I’ve seen it, you’ve seen it. I’ve seen a few hundred come to the Lord. You’ve seen 600 recently. Something is going on. Yeah, there’s wars and rumors of wars. That will always be. But there is a massive move of God. As times get darker and darker, and the Israelis realize, wow, our only hope is God, many are turning to the Lord in these last days.

SID: You know, I’m reminded of the Glory cloud that followed the Jewish people in the desert. I believe people are going to literally see that Glory cloud in Israel, and just like people ran to Pensacola, Florida…

DAVID: Yes.

SID: …and Toronto, and the other revivals, people are going to run to Israel, not for just tours, but for the Glory of God. Would you pray for the Glory of God to come upon those that are watching right now.

DAVID: Yes. If you’re watching right now, I just say, God, bring your Glory, lift your hands and just close your eyes, and just receive this. Let the presence of God’s Glory permeate your room, your car, your television, wherever you are, let it just invade right now. Open heavens, the Glory to invade your life right now in Yeshua’s name. Every cell of your body, your DNA, your bones, your marrow, let it just explode inside of you, the Glory cloud cover you right now in Yeshua’s name.

SID: David, I have many friends that see doom and gloom, and destruction, and the economy falling apart, and bombs, and terrorism, and all these awful things. Then I have other friends that say, I may have seen the greatest awakening the world has ever seen. How can prophets of God have such two different views?

DAVID: It’s like, as for me and my house, we’re going to serve the Lord. Egypt was in the worst shaking ever. But God’s people within Egypt got out, transferred the wealth, the Glory cloud, signs and wonders. So there are things coming on the earth, but it’s perspective. What perspective are you looking at, positively or negatively? You do things in battle, a lot of people get saved. So for evangelists it’s going to be great. But the Lord showed me, it’s like when Elisha and the servant were stranded by the Syrian army. And in the natural we can see like in America there’s some really bad things being planned. But are you looking just at that or are you looking at third Heaven chatter, second Heaven chatter. As you look at the enemy’s war room you know what the enemy is planning, you can know all the details and get so engrossed in that and not go higher in the prophetic third Heaven chatter, where you’re actually in God’s war room and he goes, yes, the enemy is planning this, but here’s how I’m going to counteract it. Here’s how I’m going to bless you. Here’s how I’m going to even use that to bring more people to salvation. So yeah, the shakings are coming, but we’re not supposed to be in fear if we’re right with God and God will supernaturally use us and protect us.

SID: That explains it. Because I believe these people are hearing the chatter from the second Heaven, but I’m not. All I am hearing is awakening, glory, miracles, creative miracles. I want you to listen a lot to the third Heaven like I am.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Could Christianity be so dumbed down that many will miss Heaven? My guest is going to expose something that is perverse in Christianity. Hello Side Roth here with John Bevere. Now most people assume a little baby, an innocent little baby is born with discernment knowing the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. What do you say, John?

JOHN: Well that’s the whole message here that I want to bring to the people today. Good or God is synonymous because today it seems to be. When you say good, people assume it’s God. But yet the Bible tells us in Hebrews, chapter 5, that the only way to recognize between good and evil is through discernment. If you look at King Solomon before he started his reign, he cried out to God, “Give me a heart to discern between good and evil.” So if good is so obvious, straightforward, why do we have to have discernment to get it.

SID: And you know what the most amazing thing to me is, the revelation you’re about ready to hear, it’s probably one of the most important that you will get between now and the time you go home or Jesus returns. This revelation came in a supernatural fashion to John Bevere. And you have a best-selling book, a million and a half in print, “The Bait of Satan”. Everyone has heard of John Bevere and his book. But it took a supernatural revelation from God for him to get this. What happened?

JOHN: Well this all began years ago in the late ’90s. I was flying to Sweden and I remember landing and my host picked me up, and said, “John, you don’t know this, but a very, very famous woman, she was globally known, was killed last night in a tragic automobile accident.” I was shocked beyond words. She was pretty, she had a great personality, she loved her fans and she was using her beauty and her influence to help victims of land minds, help victims that were poor and needy, and social injustice victims. And so I remember watching this news about people just weeping at her gates, weeping in the nation, and I’m grieving for like two or three hours. And I’m thinking, I’m speaking to like 6000 people tonight. I got to get ready for the service. And I turned the TV off. And Sid, I felt like in my grieving I was in error. So I got down at the end of my bed in Sweden. I literally knelt at the foot of the bed and I said, “God, I feel like I’m in error. What’s wrong?” And I heard so clearly, and this is the supernatural aspect of it, the Lord said, “Read Revelation 18.” I heard that so clearly. So I started reading Revelation 18 and I got down to the 8th or 9th verse and it said, “In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously in the same measure give her torment and sorrow, for strong is the Lord that judges her.” And I’m telling you, I felt like a bucket of ice water hit me in the face, because I’m a fan of this woman. And I said, “God, how could you ever use that scripture to speak to me about this woman.” I said, “God, everything she’s done, she’s helping the land mine victims, the poor.” And the Lord said, “She’s flaunted her adultery to the whole world. She’s openly rebelled against the house that she chose to submit to.” I said, “But God, all the good she’s done.” And I heard this so clearly, and this is what changed my life, Sid. The Holy Spirit said, “Son, it was not the evil side of the Tree of Knowledge, of good and evil that Eve was drawn to. It was the good side.” And when I heard that, I flew over to my Bible to Genesis 3, and I saw these words: “When the woman saw the tree was good it was pleasant and was desirable to make her wise.” And I dropped my Bible on my bed and I went, oh my, my. And the Holy Spirit said to me, he said, “Son, there is a good that is very rebellious to me.” Right then I saw all the way to the fact that the man of sin, the man of rebellion that’s going to deceive the nations, he’s going to have a good that’s scary good, but it’s going to be perfectly rebellious to God. And so out of that what I started realizing is that the best way that the enemy can deceive people, because Jesus, the apostles, they all spoke about deception and the last of the last days. In fact, Jesus said, if possible even the elect are going to be deceived. And so I started realizing the person who is deceived believes they’re on the side of truth, when in reality they’re not. How is the enemy going to deceive even the elect? It’s through good.

SID: So what you’re saying is that the enemy is going to wrap deception, which you would obviously know, with a package of good. Isn’t, that’s in effect what you’re saying, what happened to Eve in the Garden.

JOHN: Well the Bible doesn’t say that Satan can transform himself as an angel of light. It says he does transform himself as an angel of light and so do his messengers. So there is not only Satan transforming himself into an angel of light, his messengers and the message of the messengers. So there’s a message out there, hey if it’s good it’s God. No it isn’t, Sid. There is sometimes a distinction between good and God.

SID: You had a revelation that in the last days this deception would occur, the discernment between good and evil.

JOHN: Malachi points it out. The Book of Malachi. The Book of Malachi said, “The final days, the days right before the coming of the Lord, you’re not going to be able to tell the difference the righteous and the wicked until the fire of refinement comes.” So in other words, there’s a time period.

SID: The weed in the tares that Jesus talks about.

JOHN: The wheat and the tares, the exact same thing. That you’re going to have the righteous and the wicked together and everybody is going to think they’re all serving God.

SID: It’s going to get tricky and it’s going to get trickier the closer we get to the return of the Messiah. Speaking of trickiness, in the grace-holiness debate, John has some interesting answers. We’ll be right back.

SID: All right, Rabbi Schneider, you told me it is very important for us to understand the distinction between authority and power. Explain that.

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Well Jesus…“All authority,” Jesus said, “on Heaven and Earth has been given to me.” And we were saying before the break, Sid, that we have to know that we have authority in Jesus. Demons will not respond if we’re not standing a position of knowing the authority that Jesus has and knowing that in him we can use that authority. But there is a difference between authority and power. I like to explain it this way. A police officer has authority because of the office that he stands in, and of course, if someone gets pulled over by a car, a police officer gets out of the car, he or she is wearing the badge, often times they’ll have a hat and a uniform which represents their authority. And most people that are pulled over will cooperate with the police officer just because the police officer has authority. But sometimes people won’t cooperate and when people won’t cooperate with the police officer because of the authority, the police officer then has to back up his or her authority with power, whether it be a taser, billy club or whatever that is. And the same is true in dealing with demons. Sometimes demons will just respond to authority. However, some demons will not respond to the authority unless the authority is backed up by power. Authority is given to us automatically when we receive Jesus. But power has to be developed. Remember for example, they came to Jesus and they said, concerning the one that demon had not been driven out of, they said, “Why couldn’t your disciples not drive the demon out?” And Jesus said, “This kind doesn’t come out but by fasting and prayer,” which of course are two means of developing power. So to be effective we want to exercise both the authority that we have, but also develop power, and power comes simply by relying on God, depending on him, walking with him, prayer and all the other disciplines of the faith.

SID: Okay. So people have open doors. How do we close the doors and get rid of these demons?

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Well that’s a great question, and I personally believe that closing the doors often times can be a process. I find in my own life the deeper I get in my walk with Jesus, with Yeshua, the more in my heart I realize I need to repent of. In other words, often time the Lord will start off showing us surface things. But then the deeper we go we see perhaps elements of unforgiveness or pride, or spirit of accusation. And so closing the door involves, number one, repenting of sin continually as the Lord shows us in deeper ways sin within our hearts, areas that we might not know today, but in a year from now, because we’ve grown in grace, we’ll see them.

SID: But you know, in the world Christianity is saying because of a wonderful concept called grace we can go on our merry way, we don’t have to worry about those little sins.

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Yeah. Any truth carried to the extreme becomes a heresy, doesn’t it? Absolutely, we know the first thing that Jesus said was, “Repent, for the Kingdom of God…”

SID: I don’t hear that word much. I don’t go to congregations and the pastor gets up and says, “repent.” You know why? All the people get up and go out, and he wants them to get up and come in. But you know something? Without repentance you won’t even see God.

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Absolutely. And that’s one of the ways that we close the doors and keep demons from getting in. When we repent we close the door, we close out the darkness from our lives.

SID: When you talk to, in the spirit world, to a demon, how do you do that?

SID: You just speak, you don’t speak to them in terms of having a conversation, you speak at them.

SID: At them.

RABBI SCHNEIDER: You speak at them. Absolutely. You’re not looking to converse. I say, “Satan, I reject you. Get out of my head.” It’s just that simple. It gives the direct command to a demon the demon has to obey.

SID: But what happens if sense it didn’t happen immediately? Do you throw in the towel? Do you give up?

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Absolutely not. And that was part of the dream I shared a little earlier. When I grabbed a hold of that demon that was occupying my space, my house, I took a hold of him and I began to punch that demon in the face, and at first it seemed like nothing was happening. It seemed like I had no power. It seemed like all my energy was not having any effect on him. But you know what, I was so committed to getting free, I wasn’t going to stop. And as I persisted and as I kept going, bam, that demon broke. And it’s the same thing with deliverance. We have to be committed to being free and know that we will get free because Jesus said, “If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.”

SID: You personally battled with something that many of you are battling with right now, a spirit of fear. You think it’s yourself. No, no, no, no, no. It is a spirit of fear. I talked to someone recently, they told me they were afraid to speak in public. You know what I found, Rabbi Schneider?

RABBI SCHNEIDER: What’s that?

SID: Whatever your strength is, it always, you know, like attacked in that area, the person would do wonderful sharing in public. But they wouldn’t even try because they were fearful of it. What would you say?

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Well I would say that, number one, knowing the Word of God, knowing truth and using that truth as a weapon out of our mouth to speak is a key to getting free. The Word of God breaks the power of demons. Jesus, of course we know, defeated the devil in the wilderness and that before by speaking the Word of God. When we know that speaking the Word of God has life in it and we speak it at the demon, at the darkness, the darkness will break, the darkness will bend. It will lose its hold, and more and more we’re going to enter into freedom and into the light. I think it’s important that people recognize that this isn’t always just a one-time quick fix. This is a commitment to being free, knowing you will get free. The principles work. The principles that I keep, Sid, they work.

SID: Tell me how it worked with you, with fear.

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Well how it worked with fear with me is a number of different avenues. Number one, the truth. God began to reveal to me, number one, that the commitment to getting free wasn’t just about my desire to be free, it was about his glory. And then I began to use the Word of God against the devil in the specific areas that Satan was causing fear. In other words, if Satan was causing fear in the area of health I would use the Word of God against Satan in the area of my health. If Satan is using fear in the area of finances, then we use what the Word of God says about finances against Satan in that area. So wherever—

SID: Now when you say use it, what exactly would you do?

RABBI SCHNEIDER: I would quote it, I would, you know, David said he encouraged himself in the Lord. I would speak it to myself, quote it aloud. I would say, “Satan, I reject you, get out of my head.” Then I would replace his lie with the truth, speaking, this is what God’s Word says to myself to encourage my own heart. So I would cast him out and I would affirm myself in the truth.

SID: I would like you to pray right now for the people all over the world watching right now that are looking for help. Pray for them.

RABBI SCHNEIDER: Amen. Father, God, right now in Jesus’ name, I just want to thank you how much you love your children. Father, your word says, behold what manner of love the Father has given unto us that we should be called the children of God and thus we are. And you said, Father, greater is he that’s in us than he that’s in the world, and that this is the victory that’s overcome the world, our faith. Father, we want to thank you right now that in Jesus we already have the victory. Now Father, I speak a word of activation over your people right now that they would realize at a deeper level than ever before that your spirit lives within them, that life is on the inside and that the life that’s in them is greater than the power of darkness that’s outside of them, and that Father, you would activate them out of passivity into activation to use their faith by your spirit with the Word of God, in Jesus name. Satan, I break you off of God’s children’s life in Jesus’ name with the knife of God’s work. I command you to release them right, let them go and in Jesus’ name, I say to you beloved child of God, in Jesus you are free.

SID: Would you say that all believers have to get rid of garbage in their life that was picked up before they were believers or picked up from ancestry, or just a few?

RABBI SCHNEIDER: I think everybody. I think all of us are progressively journeying deeper into freedom and into God’s light. So I think this is for everybody. I think everybody has battles that they need to overcome. You know, Paul said at the very end of his life, “I fought the fight. I’ve run the race and now there’s laid out for me the crown of righteousness.” We all need to be fighting because nobody is yet perfectly free and all of us demand to enter greater freedom and greater peace.

SID: And I speak freedom to you right now. He has a name, Yeshua, Jesus the Messiah. You shall know the truth and the truth, it will set you free.

Sid: If you’ve been listening all this week I’ve had Heidi Baker on and Heidi is, I would not call her red hot for the Messiah, I’d call her white hot which is a shade more than red hot, red hot for the Messiah. I have her husband on the telephone right now. The Baker’s have a wonderful ministry in Mozambique, Africa. They’ve about 3000 churches started in the last couple of years. Leading large numbers of Muslims to the Lord, they have…Rolland how many orphans do you have now?

Rolland: We have well over 1000 in our main 2 centers in the southern capital of Maputo, then we have many others taken care of by our bush churches basically around the country.

Sid: Now I want the people to get to know you a little bit. I got to know you in a very indirect fashion. Many years ago I read a book called “Visions Beyond the Veil.” I was so impressed with this revival that occurred in China, then I found since he has the same last name as you that he was your grandfather. You recently… for those that are not familiar with “Visions Beyond the Veil” just very briefly what did your grandfather observe in China?

Rolland: Well he went to China as a Pentecostal missionary in the 1920’s and he really didn’t exactly what to do. He tried to be a classic missionary by preaching to adults and so forth. My grandmother didn’t really know what to do with herself, but she discovered outside their very very simple Chinese courtyard type house in this wild west town of Kunming where I was born. That she discovered children in the gutters just literally dying in rags and she began to take them in and wash them off and give them clothes and eventually they had a group of about 50 orphans. Many of these orphans were so sick and far gone when they picked them up they literally died in a few days, but eventually they had a group of 50 or so children that were actually were very ordinary children. They’re not particularly interested in spiritual things just naughty kids that wanted to play and so forth and didn’t want to sit in chapel and hear about the Bible or anything. So one day the Holy Spirit just fell on them very very powerfully so much so that these plain ordinary 10 year old kids were convicted of sin to the degree that they wept and hid under their benches and chairs, and for night and day, for days then were caught up by demons and carried off to hell. They didn’t understand the gospel for all they knew they were totally lost and had no hope whatsoever which is an experience I think most people need to go through but don’t in the western church. Then in these visions they experience being caught by angels saved by angels literally over the saints of hell and taken up into heaven and explained the gospel and taken to see Jesus. Then for days and weeks even months these visions would occur every day all day you know except for a brief times of rest and eating all heaven was opened up to these children in a fabulous way that I’ve never heard the equal of in church history.

Sid: Now did you ever meet your grandfather?

Rolland: Oh I knew him very well.

Sid: Did he ever prophecy or lay hands on you because it just seems there’s too close a connection with orphans both of you had with supernatural signs? It’s too close, did he?

Rolland: Well he never just formally laid hands and pronounced anything but he obviously took a deep deep interest in me. I have 4 sisters I’m the son in my father’s family and he only had one son. He just took a terrific interest in me as his grandson ever since I was a small boy 3 – 5 years old on his lap. He would just spend hours with me telling me stories of the supernatural world that he lived in when he was in revival in southwest China.

Sid: One quick story Rolland of what he told you when you were young, just one that had an impact, one supernatural story.

Rolland: Well he made the world of angels and demons very very real. He would tell me stories of how demons would get ahold of children and get ahold of people and entice them with worldly pleasures. In fact in his orphanages these demons would sometimes come inside and just spirits right through the walls and take them away and entice them with toys and money and delights and just offer them all sorts of enticements to keep them away from the things of God and thinking about the next life and all. The angels would come and rescue them and bring them back. Oh I could just go on and on. He always had a different story each time, but they would be so particular and so beyond the experience of the average Christian. So beyond the typical normal Sunday school life for the average kid. He would tell stories of demons giving them supernatural strength and power and insolence if only they would only give their soul to the devil and do his work and all. Then angels would come and he would tell stories of services in the mountains of China where demons would surround the churches outside in the night while they were trying to worship. Angels would be around the church inside the walls keeping the demons out and you could hear the demons outside screaming and cackling, and chanting, and yet these bright white angels inside would be protecting those who were worshipping. It was just extraordinary you know this whole supernatural world of heaven and hell and angels and demons and all was real; the average church goer never hears this stuff at all and the Bible just seems like a bunch of fairy stories and it’s hard to believe.

Sid: You recently went to China what happened?

Rolland: Well there is only one orphan alive still that I know of. He had been separated from the west behind the Bamboo Curtain for all those years. My grandfather was forced out by the communist in 1949. In 1980 China opened up again and my parents went in and met this particular man he’s now 83 years old. This is the man who became my grandfather’s walking companion, ministry companion all those 20 years that he was in the mountains after my grandfather moved out from the orphanage. He was my grandfather’s right hand preaching companion he did all his interpreting, and arrangements, and helped him with all his living arrangements, and carrying his possessions, he did all his translations he was just his man Friday. He just wanted to meet me that the years went by we were able to go to Kunming for a number of visits. But my father and even my mother had never been up to my grandfather’s territory in Yunam it was so far so remote and permission was not granted to westerners even after 1980 for a long long time to go up into that region. So even my parents had never seen it, but now China is getting more and more open, and more more free now finally those regions are open to foreigners to visit. But Lee Shui this man is now 83 and he does really not think that he could possibly go to heaven without a visit from me.

Sid: Hmm.

Rolland: He just really wanted to see me one last time in my grandfather’s territory in his home, in his mountain valley before he went to heaven. He was able to get that message by telephone to my mother last year. My mother went out to visit the city of Kunming where the orphanage was. It’s still a long ways from where my grandfather worked in the mountains, but she met with Lee Shui and he said he really wanted me to come and visit him, be with him, and go there before he died. He just could not die until I came. Last month, actually a few weeks ago I was able to finally make the trip and that was the first time a white man had been in that area in 50 years. It was so long ago most people had never seen a white man at all till they saw me.

Sid: So did you have people, children following you around wherever you went?

Rolland: Yeah nobody had ever seen a white and I was just a total object of attention. They had heard about my grandfather and my arrival just caused a huge stir. It was very emotional for me because when I was little I would hear about all his 20 mile hikes everyday from village to village evangelizing entire mountain valleys and one community after another with signs and wonders, extremely Pentecostal. Nothing had to be forced, contrived. He baptized personally some 10,000 people in wild cold mountain rivers and high altitudes and these people would just get so overcome by the presence of God on the river banks; they would just get lost in the Spirit and fall to the ground and roll and shake and laugh and get up in visions, and they’d come up out of the water speaking in tongues without ever hearing about tongues, and prophesying…

Sid: Speaking of prophesying out of curiosity in China or any of your travels have heard, or has the Lord shown you or Heidi, an indication as to where we are in history?

Rolland: Well my grandfather’s children had a lot of visions not just of heaven but past events and also future events of the tribulation. Now they do not know anything about the current controversy over when the tribulation is and the rapture is or anything like that. But they certainly saw a lot of the kind of power that we can expect in the last days. From those visions we can certainly see that God is not finished yet, He has not finished pouring out His Spirit on all flesh and we’re going to see a time of incredible harvest where the Holy Spirit takes ahold of His church, takes the reigns of His church and individuals of His body, and completely removes all reason for the world to accuse us of hypocrisy and weakness and all. He’s going to build a beautiful spotless bride and church and it’s truely going to glorify Him in the last days. The children would see God’s people transporting themselves like Phillip, you know to Samaria just going from place to place to place as they needed without the benefit of helicopters and airplanes, calling down fire from heaven on unrepentant towns and cities. Just being given extreme authority that was possible by the reason of their holiness and purity. We are entering that realm, we really are in Mozambique we’re beginning to see the possibilities. Our eyes are being open to that sort of thing and we realize that nothing is impossible all those dreams and desires and all the things we dared to hope for in God all of our lives, all the things we read in the Bible, all the greatness of God that we long to see fleshed out is actually unfolding.

Sid: We’re out of time!

Sid: I think that’s a very apt description of my next guest her name is Joan Gieson. I’m speaking to her at her home in St. Louis, Missouri. And you’ve probably seen Joan on television if you’ve ever watched the Benny Hinn show; she’s the woman that says “Pastor Benny” this person has just been healed of this disease or that disease” and now she’s in her own ministry. And the thing that I found so intriguing is that for years she also worked with one of my favorite ministries the Kathryn Kuhlman Ministry doing similar things and she has pretty much picked up strong anointings of healing from both of those wonderful ministries. But actually I want to take you back to the beginning you just had your first child and something happened to you and it only happens in the movies it’s not supposed to happen in real life what happened to you?

Joan: I just want to say hello to you this morning and thank you so much for allowing me to be with you today. You know I felt as though when the first call came in to be with you on your television program that it was one of the top 3 important things that ever happened in my life. And that saying something because I’m an old woman and I’ve done a lot but it was from the Holy Spirit that He allowed me to know that and I feel the same way about being with you today and tomorrow and the following days. In saying all of that thanks a million for allowing this to happen. But yes…

Sid: Well Joan that’s as a nice a compliment that I’ve ever had on the air so thank you but what happened after your first child?

Joan: Honey it was devastating I’m Italian and my name my maiden name is Palermo and my mom and dad they had 3 kids and all of us were strong as anybody could be there was no sickness other than measles and mumps and colds and just the general thing you know. And in the…with the Catholic people I don’t know if it’s with all of the Catholics, I mean Italians I didn’t mean Catholic Italian a pedigree is given to the intended husband. Before the marriage my mother and father took me to the regular doctor and the gynecologist and check all over and I had all of the reproductive organs in good condition. My teeth were good and my hearing was good and it sounded like selling a poodle (Laughing). And so my mom and dad that and said that “She’s healthy and she’s strong” and it was like part of dowry. And I got married and a wonderful wedding went on a honeymoon and now sometime later our first child was born and when he was just a little more than 2 years old I stooped over one day to pick something up off of the floor and my husband at that time was working from 12 noon until 10 at night and so he had already gone to work. And Michael was, that’s the little boy’s name, he was playing and when I stooped over to get this whatever it was that ever had fallen on the floor I got up and Sid I was completely blind.

Sid: Hm.

Joan: Well it’s not something that you can practice for or you can prepare for it’s like oh there was a fear that gripped my body that was so inclusive that I mean I could literally feel it’s clutches around me. And I yelled for Michael to come and he brought the telephone to me and I called the operator and had her dial my mother. And I said “Mom you’ve got to come quick I can’t see.” Well her and my grandfather came in a minute it seemed like and I was sitting in the living room and I would see bits and pieces of my sight coming back and then it would go again. Well within a couple of hours it had come back but the fear had not left. And my mom said “Okay now what happened here there’s something wrong we’re going to go out and buy a new hat and we’ll divert your attention to something else,” but she said “When I gave your hand to Frank that’s my husband you were perfectly sound and good and she said I want to know what happened.” That’s a good Italian mom.

Sid: It sounds like a Jewish mom but go ahead.

Joan: I think it came from the same pod you know I really do.

Sid: Well we both speak with our hands I know that.

Joan: Yes and I’m speaking with my hands yes absolutely. But my mom did she took me out to buy the new hat and I was thrilled with the new hat but it certainly did not take that fear away. And then she waited until Frank came home for dinner late that night after 10:00. And she said “Frank you know what’s happened here you know are there problems that I don’t know about?” And he said “No!” I mean he was just as shocked as we were. Well then we kissed each other goodbye and she left and we went to bed and the next day the very same thing happened. And at the end of our street there was a doctor, just a general doctor which I had never seen before. But when my mother and grandfather arrived my dad was at work also they took me down to this man and this man I was still blind when they took me into his office and they took me in as an emergency. And this doctor said “I do not know what’s wrong with her but I have a friend whose name is William Bailey and he’s an ophthalmologist and I called him and told him you were one the way. Well I went to him Sid and he said “You have optic the hemorrhages are behind both eyes and the optic nerves are swollen into the brain” and he said “There’s major trouble here and of course I can’t tell you conclusively what’s wrong but I’ve made an appointment with another doctor named Edmund Smallick” and I said “What is that?” And this time again the fright had come back but it wasn’t right. And he said “He’s a brain surgeon and I want you to see him and it’s my thinking that it could be several things. He said it could be a brain tumor and we want to check this out.” And so I went to this Edmund Smallick and what an unusual man this was. Now this was in one day Sid one day I went blind the next day it happened again. I went to the first doctor he sent me to the ophthalmologist which sent me to the brain surgeon that day. He said “I’m going to send you over to the hospital and I want you to be in there tonight we’re going to do some tests tomorrow and we’re going to see what we can find.” And I started crying, the guy gave me his handkerchief and he said “You know I haven’t done anything to you yet don’t cry” and he felt really bad for me because I was just…I had not really been sick and I did not know what was going on. And to think that this blindness could be part of your life now, but you know Sid the thing that scared me the very most was…

Sid: What was that?

Joan: If I would die I mean immediately I mean there was not only a blindness but there was a sick feeling that came over when this. Now I don’t know if it was an emotional sick or what it was but physically I felt sick. Again I don’t know if it was because of the stress of the thing but I just felt terrible, and so this is in one day. Now that night I’m in the hospital and laying there I’m crying. I never missed a Sunday for over 20 years in my Lutheran church I was born and raised in a Lutheran church not Catholic as Italians usually are but a Lutheran church. And I thought “If I die will I get to heaven?” Now that was so big inside of me the fear from the blindness was one thing, but the fear of maybe not making heaven was the…I think the most important of the two. And so they did the test the next day they injected radioactive isotopes into my veins through my arm. And they pact my body in sand bags and they today it’s an MRI and it’s very quick but then they ran this x-ray across my whole body to see if they could pick up any problem areas. Well it was almost an entire day that I had to lay still and I came out of that thing desperate, I was desperate. And so I called for my pastor and he came and I said to him “Pastor Zigoran I’m afraid if I die I don’t know if I am even going to get to heaven.” He said “Joan first of all you’re probably not going to die, second you will get to heaven because you’re a member of our church.” He said “And you and your husband tithed to our church” and he said “You’re little boy has been baptized in our church and everything that you’ve done revolves around the church; so because I can assure you that you’ve been a good worker you’re going to get to heaven.” Well I felt good but then when he left all of my hope went with him. And the next day testing was more grueling than the day before and on and on I remember staying there for 2 weeks and they could never pinpoint anything. So my plea by this time is desperate because this blindness is coming and then it’s going now it’s affecting my hearing, its affecting my walking, I cannot walk correctly, my balance off I’m dizzy. Now what I once knew as a perfect body was not any longer a perfect body I was an absolute mess.

Sid: Joan we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

SID: Now another key for making right decisions every time simply is praying in a supernatural language. The Bible refers to it as unknown tongues. Tell me why that’s so important.

KAREN: Well it’s your spirit praying directly to God. You know, when the Bible says when we pray in tongues we don’t have an understanding in our minds, and so there’s so many benefits to praying in tongues. First of all, it makes you bold. Second of all, it gives you, it helps you pray out the mysteries of the future. You know, he who prays in tongues is praying directly to God for his mysteries. And you know, the future is a mystery to us. Right. And so if you’re seeking God’s direction or asking him for right decisions, when you pray in the Spirit or pray in other tongues, you’re praying out things in your future, like when you get there, it’s ready for you already set up by God. And another, in you know, Romans 8:26 it says that, “The Spirit helps us pray when we don’t know what to pray for as we ought.” I don’t know about you, but there’s lots of times I run into things when I know somebody should pray, but I don’t know what to pray for.

SID: You know the symptoms, but you don’t know the causes. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to pray precise prayers.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: From the Spirit of the Living God to change the circumstance in your life or a loved one’s life.

KAREN: You know, I think about Peter on the day of Pentecost. This is a guy who denied the Lord three times and was probably feeling guilty, and was feeling weak. But he went to the Upper Room with the disciples. When the Holy Spirit fell they all spoke in other tongues and then Peter preached, and won 3000 people to the Lord that day.

SID: Well my message to you is start praying in tongues.

KAREN: Yes, absolutely.

SID: But you tell people, and I think this is phenomenal, when they go to sleep, go to sleep praying in tongues. Explain a little bit.

KAREN: I was in children’s ministry for like 21 years and so I got lots of kids filled with the Spirit praying in other tongues, which is so exciting. I used to tell them, guys, you got to practice and so I gave them a practice time. Every night when you lay your head down on the pillow just pray in tongues. And then adults heard me teaching kids that, and they would come back to me and say, you know, I go to sleep praying in tongues and I wake up knowing stuff.

SID: The Bible says you have to become like a little child.

KAREN: It’s true.

SID: Pray for people right now that are born from above, because that’s the only requirement, born again. You believe Jesus died for your sins, his blood washed them away, you’ve repented and you asked Jesus to be your Lord. If that’s you, pray for them to receive the filling the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. And by the way, you can be filled with the Holy Spirit without speaking in tongues, but you could speak in tongues if you’re filled with the Holy Spirit.

KAREN: Yes. And it’s easy. You know, this is a gift from God. When somebody wants to give you a gift and they’re holding it out like this, what do you do? You just take it. You don’t have to qualify for it. You don’t have to earn or deserve it. It’s just something given to you by God. And God has put his Holy Spirit on the earth ever since, Acts, Chapter 2, Verse 4, ever since the day of Pentecost, for us, for a gift, and it’s not hard to receive it. In fact, all you have to do is just pray this prayer with me. Father God.

SID: Father God.

KAREN: I ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit.

SID: I ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit.

KAREN: Fill me with your spirit.

SID: Fill me with your spirit.

KAREN: With the evidence of speaking in tongues.

SID: With the evidence of speaking in tongues.

KAREN: I receive it now.

SID: I receive it now.

KAREN: In Jesus’ name.

SID: In Jesus’ name.

KAREN: It’s that easy.

SID: Now you can’t talk English without cooperating with your mouth and your lips. Right? You can’t speak from, it’s not coming from here any more and this will rebel, it’s coming from here, your belly. Therefore, you’ll not hear it until you do your part, God will do his. You can’t speak in English unless you articulate the words coming from your brain. You can’t speak, I don’t know how, perfect, it’s unknown. You start speaking as quickly as you can, a language you haven’t been instructed, like a little child, right now. [speaking in tongues]. Now if you don’t start speaking, no one else will do it. [speaking in tongues]. Someone’s ear was just opened in Jesus’ name. [speaking in tongues]. Hey, this really is supernatural, Karen. Now what if someone has missed it? They know they’ve missed it. Are they finished?

KAREN: No.

SID: Good.

KAREN: Haven’t we all.

SID: Of course.

KAREN: You know, I think nobody has done everything perfectly. And the devil would love you to believe that now you’re disqualified, you know, or that was your only chance and it’s over for you. But he’s a liar, you know. If the Bible shows us anything, it shows us people who got another chance, you know. Look at Moses. He killed an Egyptian and he thought his time for being a deliverer was over, but no, God’s plan for him was go, he kept going.

SID: Look at David.

KAREN: Look at David. We’re talking about, you know, sleeping with somebody else’s wife, getting her pregnant and killing her husband. I mean.

SID: You think you did bad.

KAREN: Exactly. And yet even the New Testament still calls him a man after God’s own heart. He repented, you know. And so if you’ve missed it, if you feel like you’ve gotten off track, I’m telling you, God is big enough to get you back on track.

SID: Well I want you to pray right now for people, right now.

KAREN: Okay. Father, we just come to you, I come to you on behalf of those who have maybe missed it, maybe gone off track, maybe gotten in the wrong direction. And Father, if I just pray that you give them Divine impartations and truth, and revelation that they can ask you for forgiveness and they can go on that your plan for their life is still coming to pass, that what you created them for will, is still your plan for their lives. I pray over those people. I pray that you are able to just receive God’s forgiveness and keep on going because he knows how to get you right back on track in Jesus’ name.

SID: And my way of saying the same thing is just throw off the dust and the horrible things and say, thank you for your blood. I repent, Jesus. Now you have to repent. Don’t get me wrong, that means a change of action, you’re sorry. You repent and I’m going to tell you, you will not miss a step of what God has for you in your life.

KAREN: Yes.

SID: You are ready to walk into your destiny. And God told me tell you that right now. That’s his message for you.

SID: So have you ever said to God, God, I’m so practical, just tell me what you want me to do and I’ll do it. Have you ever said that? You know, have you ever said, God, I just don’t hear your voice. I feel so sorry for myself. No, you never say it that way, but that’s what you’re really saying. That’s the way most of us feel.

GARY: Yes. Before I learned, that’s how I would feel. But hearing God’s voice is the key. The Bible says that, “The Kingdom of God does not come by observation, but it is in us,” Luke, chapter 17, verse 20. We already have the Kingdom. We already have every answer we need, the capacity to hear already in us. First Corinthians says that we have the mind of Christ, and so that’s, we have to tap into that. And like the story we told about Luke, chapter 5, the fishermen, Jesus told them where the fish were. Now all we need is to be able to hear. And of course, when Peter had taxes to pay, Matthew 17, Jesus said, “Go catch a fish and you’ll find a gold coin.” And so.

SID: But you know, if someone just had that thought, they would say, that’s ridiculous, I’ve just been fishing all night, I’m not going to do that.

GARY: Yes. Yes.

SID: That’s what people do, you explained to me. We get these God thoughts and we flick them off. I don’t hear from God. Get off that thought.

GARY: Yes. Well a lot of thoughts we hear are for a reason. I always say your answer is hidden from you for you. We read in First Corinthians, second chapter, speaking of Jesus being born, that if Satan would have known about the plan of God he would not have crucified Jesus. So Satan will always, if he can pick up on the plan of God, he will change his tactics. So God uses strange and sometimes unusual directions to us so that Satan does not know what the heck is going on. And we actually go capture wealth and capture opportunities before he actually can pick up on it and interfere with it.

SID: We talked about a secret weapon that’s mysterious.

GARY: Yes.

SID: What’s the secret?

GARY: First Corinthians, 12, 13 and 14 — 13 says, “Show the love of God,” the love chapter, but it starts, “Though I speak with the tongues of men and angels.” And First Corinthians 14:2 says, “A man who prays in the Spirit, who prays in tongues utters mysteries out of his own spirit, and he actually edifies himself.” The word “edify” means teach or instruct. So as we pray in the Spirit, God is downloading to our spirit mysteries that bring the capacity for us to pick up on revelation of direction of things we have need of, of the instructions. Just like as if Jesus were sitting there with you, he would say there’s the fish, go catch them.

SID: Stop flicking off God’s ideas. That’s the message.

GARY: Yes.

SID: So we have a young man in our mailroom and he got so excited, he’s working for us, and he said, “You’re having Gary Keesee. I listened to his teaching and I had literally a miracle happen.” Ian, you’re sitting in the back. Would you stand up for a moment. He, newly married. They had their first child. They want a home. All he has is a couple thousand dollars. So he reads the teaching. There’s the most phenomenal story. And rather than use the 2000 for the house, which they probably could get the house they wanted anyway, rather than use that he found out about a woman that had a severe need. And guess what he did? He planted his 2000, which is all he had, all he had into that family. So what happens? Make a long story short, a relative says, I’m going to give you $15,000, out of the blue, and he gets the house of his dreams because he applied, he didn’t just give to get. He gave where his heart showed him a, really a bigger need than he had.

GARY: Yes.

SID: And that made the difference. But that was following, and that’s the amazing thing. It was following after he listened to Gary’s teaching.

GARY: Right.

SID: When you apply God’s laws in the Spirit, the supernatural happens and although it may take a few years using supernatural principles to get out of debt, do you know that God is speeding everything up. This is your moment right now. Don’t miss it. We’re in a living in a new time, a new period. Heaven is coming so close to Earth. Don’t give up. You’re at the finish line. Pray what God is showing you right now.

GARY: Father, in the name of Jesus, I break the spirit of anxiousness over the fear of lack. I break the spirit of poverty in Jesus’ name. Father, your Kingdom is a kingdom of wealth and you give us the grace to prosper in the name of Jesus. Amen.