SANDY:  Right. Right. And as Gentile Christians saw the Jewish people were inter-distancing themselves away from the Gospel, that only fueled the animosity that seemed to be there, so we have church fathers, esteemed church fathers, like the beloved Saint John Chrysostom, who’s venerated by Catholics and Protestants alike, writing venomous, venomous anti-Jewish treatises and stating that the synagogue was worse than a den of thieves, worse than a brothel, and a cave of demons. He made it extremely clear when he wrote, quote, “As for me I hate the synagogue and I hate the Jews.” That not only was he anti-synagogue but he was anti the Jewish people. That’s not God’s heart. Then we have just about a hundred or so years later Emperor Constantine who ruled over the Roman Empire for hundreds of years officially making Christianity the state religion. When he did so, he intentionally distanced himself from any vestiges of anything Jewish from the Hebraic roots of Christianity and imposed that on the Empire as well. He legislated specific anti-Jewish laws designed to isolate and ideally do away with the Jewish people in his Empire and— he wrote this particularly for the church of future generations. He wrote that he hoped it would be his legacy that the church would forever be separated from Israel and from its Jewish roots. And I think that we can say that to a significant degree, that has been the case.

SID:  And the thing that’s so amazing is Jesus is Jewish. When He was nailed to the cross, what did it say? King of the Jews. And— let me ask you this question. These people were intelligent, these church fathers. They loved God in their way, maybe, only God knows that one. What scriptural basis did they have for just denying their Jewish roots?

SANDY: Well, it related more to the way they interpreted the scripture than any particular verse, although they did take different isolated verses throughout the scriptures out of context completely, which is not the Hebraic way of interpreting the Bible at all. Context is everything. They would take—

SID:  That’s what, that’s what causes a lot of bad theology in all areas, when you pull one verse, you don’t look what was before it, you don’t look what was after it, and you come up with anything you want to come up with.

SANDY:  And you build a whole theology and worldview on it. Right. And so they would take verses out of context and attach spiritual, symbolic or allegorical interpretations onto those verses. What I mean by that is that traditionally the way of interpreting scriptures, which Jesus himself and all of the New Testament apostles employed when they penned the scriptures, is to interpret the Bible primarily,  fundamentally according to its straightforward, plain, common sense, ordinary meaning. After that we can see how the Lord puts— uses allegory, uses allegory in His word and we can interpret the word allegorically or symbolically and it’s through an allegorical interpretation many times that we see that believers of all nations enter into the promises that God has given to Israel. But those that adhered to replacement theology and those that were putting forth replacement theology interpreted the scriptures primarily allegorically so that when the Word speaks of Israel it’s taken to mean strictly the Church.

SID:  Well you know I’ve always been taught, Sandy, that if you toss out the literal, then you must take the literal first, before you have the right to take the allegorical. If you don’t do that, then you could take any parable and come up with any theology you want.

Perry: That is also found— exact wording, exact wording— “time, times and dividing of times,” Daniel 7:25. The first place it’s ever found is in Daniel. Hundreds of years later John uses the same term, the angel gives him the same term. Now that “Gog” and “Magog” battle. One of them is Ezekiel 38 and 39 but this one in the Book of Revelation is the same spirit coming out of the pit trying to do another battle against Jerusalem. So “Gog” and “Magog” is mentioned by Ezekiel and mentioned by John in the Book of Revelation. Michael fighting Satan in a cosmic war, Revelation 12 and 7.  Daniel spoke of Michael in Daniel, chapter 12 and verse 1 coming in a day of great trouble. Same, same, same picture here. You have the beast with ten horns, Revelation 13:1. The beast with ten horns in Daniel 7:7, verse 20 and verse 24. The battle of Armageddon, Revelation 16:16. You find that battle mentioned in Zechariah 14, 1, 2 through 3. Now when I tell you Armageddon there, it tells you Armageddon in Revelation 16:16, but it says I gather all nations against Jerusalem. That’s what that battle is. That’s why we know from Zechariah 14 that’s the same battle. The binding of Satan in the abyss or the pit is in Revelation 20:2 through 3. That’s Isaiah’s prediction in Isaiah chapter 14 in verse15. The return of the Messiah to Jerusalem is in Revelation chapters 19 and 20 and you’ll find Zechariah’s prediction actually starting in chapter 12, he speaks of Jerusalem but in Zechariah 14, 4 through 5 this is where the feet of the Lord will stand up on the Mount of Olives eastward in Jerusalem and the mount will cleave in two parts, one part to the east and also one part to the west. So the point I, the point I want to make about this is, and, and please get this kind of in your spirit, as this is just a kind of an introduction to the Book, is that, let’s kind of do a review here. Number one, is let’s look at the author, John. John is an Apostle. John outlived all the other Apostles. John wrote the Book in about 95 A.D. John wrote it from the Isle of Patmos. It was a series of visions. Some people think that John actually didn’t get it all at one time because he said “after this I saw,” then he says “after this I saw.” That he may have a got a few chapter and then after this he saw something else. Others— I kind of tend to believe this— I kind of believe it happened at one time. You know someone said to me ‘now wait a minute, how can a guy have a vision like that and remember it?” Are you kidding me? Are you absolutely kidding me? I mean if you have a vision of the throne of God and you’re standing there— do you think you— what’d you do— I had a vision last night. What was it? I don’t know. Something about God. I can’t remember what it was. You kidding me? Are you kidding me? I would, I would look at that thing and tell you what shoes He was wearing, you know. I mean this is something a real vision like he had gets in your spirit so deep, “cause I’ve had ‘em before, that you can recall details if it impresses in your spirit. The other thing you got to remember it’s the Holy Spirit who recalls things to your remembrance. You know because you got your critics out there “Well how could a man remember that long?” Well just because you ain’t got a good memory doesn’t mean John didn’t have one! You know? And the Jews, the Jews back then were taught to memorize. You have to understand that we’re not taught that today. We memorize for a test and then we forget everything. But back then they rehearsed it over and over and over again. Oh my, man I feel His presence talking about this Book! Hallelujah! All right. Now I’m going to, I’m going to just take just a couple more things here that I feel like I want to share with you. Let me go back to again something that has always been a question and this question always comes up, uh, and they will say to me “Where do you place the return of the Lord for the church?” Okay? Where do you place the return? Let’s go back again. The Lord says to John I want to show you the things that were, that are, and that will be. Future tense. So if he writes this in 95 A.D., chapter 1 he sees Christ as the High Priest, right? Christ then is doing something. He’s addressing 7 churches. You all want to know the nugget from the Temple days?

Perry:  Here’s an old man, he’s probably close to a 100 years of age and he’s had a vision of a flying dragon with seven heads and ten horns, a woman that’s pregnant in the heaven with the dragon trying to eat her and he has all this weird symbolism of a seven sealed book and a Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes and obviously if the Roman people were reading that and looking at that they’d say this guy must have been smoking something. Give him his old scroll and get out a here. God actually allowed the symbolism to protect the book from its destruction by Romans. Everybody got that? So we always want to know why didn’t God just make it simple why didn’t God just say I’m going to destroy Rome one day. Because if he said it that way that book would have never got off the Isle of Patmos. It would have been considered a political book that would have stirred up passions among the Romans. So that’s why the symbolism in it. But let me go back to the original thought which is about John and the Book of Revelation being written. The Book of Revelation was written in 95 A.D. But here’s what Jesus meant when He said, “Some of you shall not taste death ‘til you see the Kingdom.” John on the Isle of Patmos saw the Kingdom before he died. And that Kingdom was he saw the New Jerusalem that no one else had ever seen in the Old Testament. Abraham looked for a city that had foundations whose Builder and Maker was God. But he never saw the city. John gave a description of the city.  John saw the 1000 year reign of Christ which nobody else in the, in the Old Testament, whether it be Moses or the Prophets ever saw. And if you look at the Book of Revelation John saw things that no one saw of how the eternity was going to usher in the New Jerusalem and the Messiah. So John did not die, that’s what Jesus said, ‘til he saw the Kingdom. Now the other thing that we have to cover before we get— and this is just like an introduction here, the other thing we have to cover about the Book of Revelation has to do with this idea in Matthew 24 where Jesus gives all the signs of the times and then He says “this generation shall not pass ‘til all these things are fulfilled.” This confuses a lot of people because in Matthew 24, for example, in verse 1 through 3, he talks about the destruction of the Temple. Then he starts talking about in verse 4, 5, 6 through 8 wars, rumors of wars, famines, pestilence and earthquake and all these are the beginning of sorrows. That’s the English translation, the actual Greek word in Mathew 24:8 is “birth pains.” Then He starts talking about in verse 14 how the gospel is preached and then the end comes. But then the end doesn’t really come because in verse 15 He talks about an abomination that makes Jerusalem desolate. Then He talks about cosmic signs in the heaven, and then He talks about how that things are going to get really bad but the Son of man’s going to come back on the clouds of glory. And then He, then He says this statement that honestly has confused people: “But this generation shall not pass ‘til ALL these things are fulfilled.” Now all of these things would imply the destruction of the Temple, all of the signs of deception, wars, earthquakes, pestilence. And then the cosmic activity that would happen in the heaven, and suddenly the Son of man appearing in the, in the heavens.

SID: My guest is Loren Sandford, and you may recognize his last name because his parents are like household words in the charismatic movement, John and Paul at Sandford. Loren, you were telling me that the last two presidents, President Trump and President Obama, you not only knew they were going to win before the election, but you knew details about them and details about their term. But you were telling me about, and this is important, you were telling me about a dream you had about President Obama.

LOREN: Yes. In this dream I was in a shopping mall and President Obama was there, too. He was going to express his grief to the nation over the shootings that have been going on. And so, I’m walking through the shopping mall and I come to the place where the filming is going to go on. I’m filled with this overwhelming love and impetus from the Lord to go up to Obama, take his hand. And I walked right past the Secret Service guy, and take his hand and say, “Mr. President, would it be all right if I stood with you as you make this announcement to the nation?” And he began to weep in this dream. He began to weep and grabbed hold of my hand like a drowning man. Like, “Oh, please.” I told the stage hands, “Please remove the podium so that we can be seen standing together before the nation in this grief.” And they could see the love.

LOREN: I said, “Lord, what was that all about?” And the Lord said, “There is a mandate for the church in this hour if we’re going to have the effect that we’re called to have. In these days to come, we’re going to have to learn to love with the love of the Father, even the people that we have hated the most, particularly our politicians.” We didn’t really pray for Barack Obama, did we? And we paid for that.

SID: Most evangelicals did not.

LOREN: Yes, most evangelicals did not. And so, I’ve given a call that we must pray for President Trump.

SID: And now, you had so many details about the administrations especially the one in now. But in 2015, God told you about the corruption. What did he say?

LOREN: Yes, the father just said to me very clearly that we were going to see an exposure of corruption at such a level and to such a degree in this nation, that it would rock the nation. At first, I wondered if I was wrong, because it didn’t happen right away. But now we’re seeing it unfold. We’re seeing it begin to erupt. I saw it almost like a boiling pot of yucky stuff.

SID: You also had a word about natural disasters and then new ministries that will evolve.

LOREN: We’ve reached a point in mankind’s history when the earth can no longer bear up under the accumulated sin of mankind and it’s reacting. People will say climate change is because of carbon dioxide and all that. No, the Earth is reacting to the sin of mankind. And so, we have a historic eruption going on in Hawaii, we’ve had fires and historic droughts in California, we were seeing an increase in hurricanes, we’re seeing a lot of climate change going on, we’re going to see more of it.

SID: So, you’re saying that all these horrible things that many say is the judgment of God, it’s just the earth reacting to that accumulated sin.

LOREN: Exactly. The universe operates by law. What you sow, you reap, that’s law. The foolishness of mankind is we think that there’s one law for the physical universe and another law spiritually, so that we can do whatever we want, morally or spiritually and that somehow doesn’t affect us. But it’s the same level of places. That if you jump off the roof of a house, you’re going to die or break your legs. If you sin, something dies or something is polluted, or something is … And it’s the same thing with the earth. We have sown so much pollution, spiritually, morally into the earth, that the earth must react.

SID: Okay. When the earth reacts and we see what’s going on now and what’s coming, what is God going to do with ministries?

LOREN: Yeah, with ministries, here’s what I believe. I believe, first, that he’s going to raise up ministries of compassion. Because this is the hour for Christians to shine with love in every aspect. The revelation of the hour is the Father’s love. If we don’t get hold of that we’re missing the whole thing. The whole world knows what we hate, they need to know what we love. Historically, the Christians won the Roman Empire by loving, not by condemning, not by judging, but by loving. And so, we’re called to be those who are known for their love. So, we’re going to see ministries of compassion rising up out of the Christian community.

LOREN: I also believe that there are certain areas of the nation in the world that are what I would call Cities of Refuge. There’s been tremendous—

SID: I tell you what, hold that thought. When we come back, he had a literal vision of what’s going to happen between now and I believe it was 2020. I want to hear about it. Be right back.

SID: You know, I love it when my guests, in this case Kerry Kirkwood, says, God just told me something. I said, do what I do. Even in introductions, tell us it.

KERRY: I want to speak to families, especially marriages, right now. I feel the prompting of the Holy Spirit. There is a covenant breaking spirit that’s going on in your marriage and you’re blaming circumstances. It’s not the circumstantial evidence, but it’s a spirit, a covenant breaking. And right now Jesus wants you to know that he paid the price for that and for you to pursue after, hearing the Word of the Lord, and speaking over one another and you bless one another. Instead of telling all your friends how bad your husband is, how bad your wife is, you begin to declare to them what Jesus has already said in the beginning and your covenant will be restored, your life will be restored, your perspective of one another will be restored and your whole family will be one, be joined in and you’re going to see a change, everywhere, financially, emotionally, physically, will come into your house.

SID: I want to emphasize, Kerry, but if they say the opposite and magnify the problem it’s going to get a thousand times worse.

KERRY: It’s going to get worse. Magnified problems become magnified.

SID: That’s exactly what God told you. Tell me about the dream you had of Washington, D.C.

KERRY: I don’t have a lot of dreams that I know are prophetic, but I was half awake and I didn’t go to bed thinking about Washington. But in this I was hovering over the map of the United States and I zeroed in on Washington, D.C. I saw small little like campfires scattered all over the United States of America and the more that I watched them, the fires started growing together so that they were no longer divided. But I can hear that these fires were intercessory teams, groups praying, and they were praying very targeted, very specific supplications, very specific to the Lord. And as they began to target this, as in a unity of the spirit, they started joining together and they joined together and started to intensify around Washington, D.C. I saw the most hideous figures that I can’t even describe, blood dripping from fangs and teeth, screaming and hollering as they went up through the flames, and they were screaming and hollering and tearing as they went out of there.

And the Lord said to me, “I’m giving an opportunity for the government seat of this nation to come to the point of recognize that, “On the shoulders of the Lord,” Isaiah 9, “upon his shoulders shall the government be.” And when this happens there is a wave of glory that’s going to go all over the United States and go north and south over North America. And the epicenter of governing in Washington, D.C. is going to be key. But it said they must continue to pray because the demonic, international, of the spirits, demonic spirits from other nations will come and try to come back in because the effect that the U.S. has over other nations. But the saints prevail, the bowls are full and it pushes back, and it’s the Glory of the Lord covering it. In the same way that I saw in Genesis where the fountains of the deep broke open and the Heavens opened, synchronized, with Noah, and the flood started coming, and the Bible said, “It is God, Yah, that rides on the flood.” When the enemy comes in, “like a flood of God” God rides on the flood, not the enemy, and it’s Glory is going to be such a flood and God is going to be in charge of this Glory, not some ministry.

SID: You know what I’m thinking, that there are so many people watching us right now saying, God, I want to do something for you. Show me my ministry. Well do you know what God says, he says to you right now, if I can trust you with little things, I’ll trust you with big things. Do you realize you can be part of that outpouring of the Glory. Wherever you are, you have time, take five minutes, a half hour, an hour, whatever you want to do, and pray for this country. Pray for the country that you’re from. You say, What, will my prayers make a difference? Well there comes a boiling point and you’re needed for that boiling point, and you will be known in Heaven by your prayers on Earth. That I can tell you. Kerry, very quickly, when you teach on take your thoughts captive, give me one nugget from that.

KERRY: Well, Psalm 91, as I said, are really the thoughts of the Lord. Psalm 40 said, “The thoughts of the Lord are numerous to you.” So he’s speaking to us. We just have to tune into that. That we normally think is these thoughts that we take captive are thoughts of the devil, but when we starting cluing in through the Word of God, getting sensitivity through meditation of the Word, we start picking up things that God says to us and then you have to grab hold of what he says, take his thoughts captive. The word “captive” literally means at the point of a spear. They belong to me. And when you take those thoughts captive then, like Paul says in Timothy, “By the words that have gone over you, you can do warfare with those.” So when God says something to you individually, that is ammunition for you to break out of any condition that’s resisting what God has in store for you.

SID: I need you to pray. You have such a revelation of redemption to bring Heaven on Earth. Would you pray for that revelation to just come into us.

KERRY: Yes. Father, I’m asking according to what you’ve already done by sending your son and the blood that’s been on the Mercy seat, because you released it on the day of Pentecost as the outpouring to the siblings of our first brother Jesus. And we receive it now. I call back into health that has been lost. I call back into families that have been divided and bitterness, and wrath has been to them, the Hatfield’s and McCoy’s spirit is broken between them and you’re restoring to them, O God, what you spoke in the very beginning. So we call out of darkness that’s been hidden by the God of this world, blinded, and we call back into the light of their light, the light of the world, Jesus in them, as we break through the darkness that you’ll no longer be blinded, what God said, “This is your inheritance, this is your inheritance based upon Jesus giving you the right to go and claim it. Amen.

SID: And you know what it said, an anointing that breaks the yoke, be broken, yoke. Get off of God’s people in Yeshua’s name.

KERRY: Amen. Amen.

 

SID: James Goll, over the years obviously we know each other, but I’ve followed what’s been going on, and you’ve going through more testing than most people I know. You almost died a few times.

JAMES: Yes.

SID: You get cancers multiple times. But you recently had a heavenly visitation.

JAMES: Yes.

SID: What happened?

JAMES: I got caught up into a heavenly experience and in this I was invited to a hill. And I went in this visitation, and I was invited to sit down at a table, and across from me is sitting an important person from Heaven, and they’re looking right at me. Again, I went through cancer three times over nine years. I’ve had my kidneys virtually almost shut down and I’ve had four near-death encounters. I sit down in this heavenly encounter at the table of the Lord, and across from me is a messenger from Heaven. And this messenger from Heaven, very important person, looks right at me and with fierceness and philosophy, it’s like called Faith that Fights, looks right into my soul, and says to me, “For the next 20 years of your life, I want you to terrorize the devil, terrorize the devil.”

SID: Now, I don’t know if you caught this, he now no longer is living day to day, each week, month to month, he’s got a minimum, minimum of 20 years, from Heaven. Okay, you say every believer needs discernment. So for starters, I know what the word “discernment” means, most people do, but what does discernment mean biblically, spiritually.

JAMES: One of the devil’s greatest tricks is deception and one of the church’s greatest needs is discernment. Now in the different gifts of the Holy Spirit, there is the gift of discernings of spirits. They’re both in the plural. And there are five different classifications of spirits. So the person who moves in, and it can move in many different levels, in many different ways, but that will perceive, distinguish, differentiate the different motivating spirits behind an activity, they then can see the angelic. They can know the Holy Spirit. They can discern the demonic. And when you are moving in this realm it will sharpen and clarify, and help enhance and bring all the other gifts that are in operation in your life to another level.

SID: When this gift really increases will a believer know the difference between their thoughts, demonic thoughts and God’s thoughts? That’s really critical these days.

JAMES: It’s really critical because Jesus said, “My sheep will hear my voice. I know them and they will follow me.”

 

SID: All right

JAMES: So we, as a believer, we know them by faith, we hear God’s voice. Right, Sid?

SID: Absolutely.

JAMES: But we hear more than one voice. I hear my voice, I hear the voice of the world. At times, I get bombarded and I hear the voice of the enemy, but we also hear the Holy Spirit. So we don’t only need to hear, we need to learn to discern the voice of the Holy Spirit from the voice of the stranger.

SID: That is so critical. Can you imagine all the mistakes you’ve made that you don’t have to make because this gift of discernment, which you’re entitled to if you’re a believer in the Messiah, will sharpen all the other gifts.

JAMES: I remember one of the times, I was ministering in Anaheim, California at a vineyard conference. I’m standing on the platform with the seer prophet John Paul Jackson, and if you bring somebody prophetically to me and I can lay hands upon them, I can prophesy. And that night, the Holy Spirit gave me a dream, and in this dream I saw tongues of fire that would sit on people. And I’m like, are you kidding me? Is that the way these guys do that? So the next day, I’m ministering there with John Wimber and all these people, and I had to touch people. And John Paul turns to me in front of thousands of people, and says, “It’s your turn to go first.” And I go, ahhh! And I’m praying my word of faith, “Help, help, help!” And so then all of a sudden, my spiritual eyes were open and I saw tongues of fire sitting on different people’s heads, like in Acts, Chapter 2. And so all I had to do was, “You, right there.” And the Holy Spirit fell on that person. They actually fell out in the Spirit. They got sovereignly delivered. They got miraculously healed of scoliosis just by identifying the Holy Spirit through discernment that was resting upon their life.

SID: I believe what James just described is going to be normal for him and normal for others.

JAMES: Yes.

SID: Because this discernment will grow and grow like loaves and fishes.

JAMES: Yes, multiply.

SID: Just keep growing, multiply. Now, we have natural senses, everyone knows, see, hear, taste, smell, etc. But we also have supernatural senses and most people don’t know about this common fact.

JAMES: That’s right. Hebrews, Chapter 5, Verse 14 talks about solid food. So how many of you want to actually have a solid food, not just a baby diet? Okay. Solid food is for the mature who practice their senses to discern good and evil. So as you said, five senses: sight, hear, smell, taste, touch. As we surrender our five natural senses unto the Holy Spirit and as we declare freedom and it’s a speech-activated kingdom, we surrender our members, our eyes, our ears, our heart, unto the Lord. We declare freedom over them, and then we pray and we receive the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon our natural senses. Then we become naturally supernatural.

SID: Okay. I need a little bit more. I want to have all of my spiritual senses activated and come alive.

JAMES: Yes.

SID: And I want to ask him how I can do it. But guess what, you come along. We’ll find out how you can, too. We’ll be right back.