Sid: My guest Dr. James Richards interviewing him on his book “How to Stop the Pain.” Jim we’ve been talking about just a few of the areas in your book but I cannot give a stronger endorsement that this is one of these books that will literally stop people from shooting themselves in the foot with their marriage, with their children, with their job. And you don’t want to be doing this but you’re doing it because you don’t even understand.

Jim: That’s right.

Sid: There is such correlation as you said between this judgment, let’s talk a little bit about this.

Jim: The incredible thing is you know the Bible says that “All of our life flows out of the issues of our heart.” Now the issues of the heart or the heart itself actually is that part of us that we really develop our self of identity or our sense of self. As a matter of fact an incredible thing that they discovered recently the physical heart has more neurons than the brain does, therefore it has a greater capacity for memory than the brain.

Sid: Boy that gives you that just really explodes some of the things in the Bible that Jesus was talking about.

Jim: Oh exactly. You know all of these things that the Bible says about the heart you know there’s some link between the physical and the nonphysical heart. So what they’re discovering in the latest cutting edge of medical science is that every organ in the body influences a different aspect of thought and a different aspect of emotion. So there’s a connection between the brain and the organs. Interestingly with the heart, the heart is a link to our long term memory. A person’s heart condition affects their ability for long term memory. This is why when some people get older they may dying and they can’t remember what happened yesterday, but their heart is still strong and they can remember what happened when they can remember what happened when they were 5 years old because they still have that long term memory. Well long term memory is what gives us our sense of self this tells me who I am. So what we understand is what I believe about me ultimately is going to determine all of the issues of my life. Everything that I do is going to come out of a heart that has determined who I am. So when we pass judgments, and most of the judgments that we pass that alter our life we pass them before we’re 5 years old. See…

Sid: That’s kind of scary because who can remember what happened before you were 5 years old.

Jim: You can’t remember that’s why you don’t realize that these things are affecting you. You know you’re born with a sin nature and my belief on the sin nature is not that it just makes you inherently evil per say as it makes you inherently fearful which leads to evil behavior. You know the first thing that happened to Adam whenever he became a sinner was he didn’t say “I’m going to go find me a marijuana plant and another woman.” Immediately he just became afraid he was afraid of God he became fearful, insecure and then that fear caused him to run away from God and try to meet his needs independent of God. Now one of the things that fear does is fear places “me” at the center of everything. You know the fearful person…

Sid: So fear and pride are synonymous.

Jim: Fear and pride yeah, fear and self-centeredness because the fearful person thinks that everything is about them. They see 2 people talking off in a distance they think that they’re talking about them. They just think that everything that happens is about them and of course that goes back to…

Sid: The world revolves around them.

Jim: That’s right I am now god of my own world everything is about me. So as a child with a sin nature, or a fear nature, things happen in your world that you can’t intellectually explain but at a very early age you begin to assume why they happen. For example, most children of divorces parents feel like they did something wrong or they could have done something to save the marriage. So they take on themselves a guilt, a shame, a burden that has nothing to do with them. Or if abusive parent for example and that child passes a judgment and says “This is why my parent does this to me because I’m a bad child.” But we pass all of these judgments and what these judgments do is they affect our heart and develop this sense of who we are and we live the rest of our lives out of that.

Sid: So what can we do about this that it happened before we’re 5 and we’re not even in touch with these things?

Jim: You know the great thing is if we renew our minds in who we are in Jesus, you don’t even have to remember when it happened or how it happened you just have to believe the truth about who you are in Jesus today. I think that one of the most fatal things that is left out of a new converts teaching right off the bat is now there’s over 200 scriptures in the New Testament alone that tells you who you are now that you’re in Jesus. Listen make sure that you see those and that you come to see yourself that way. See that’s how you renew your heart because you begin to believe these things at such a deep level that it changes your sense of self. Now we should see ourselves as priests and kings. We should see ourselves as loved and excepted and approved of God. But most of us never renew our mind and so all of these things from our past you know we believe on Jesus we believe we’re going to heaven but we still have low self-worth. We’re so afraid of rejection and afraid of other people’s judgments and we don’t even know why. And we think it’s because you know we pass a judgment about our self. “The reason I’m this way is because I’m not a good Christian, the reason I’m this way is because I must have some sin,” and we pass judgments about ourselves.

Sid: Now you talk much in your book about most Christians will forgive but they won’t release the judgments explain that.

Jim: You know we do that to other and we do that to ourselves because we do have these events that we can remember, we can remember from these pains that came into our life. We can remember these awful things that people did to us or awful things that we did. And what I find you find Christians all the time it’ll come to their mind about something someone had done to them and yeah they’re going to pray this out “I forgive this person in the name of Jesus and I forgive them in the name of Jesus.” And they get some momentary relief from that, but then suddenly it immerges again.

Sid: All they have to do is hear that person’s name. And the anger will bubble inside.

Jim: That’s right hear… in their heart hear an emotion remember something and then there they are again “Well I forgive them in Jesus name and I forgive… and pretty soon they’re saying “You know what this doesn’t work.”

Sid: So how do you release?

Jim: Well if you were sitting in jail because you had been convicted of a crime; in other words you were charged with something a judgment was made and based on that judgment you were given a sentence. And so you are sitting in jail and one day you’re lawyer comes in and says “Hey I’ve got great news for you the judge is going to forgive you of your offense.” He’s like “Oh, this is incredible I’m going to get to go home.” So your lawyer takes you back before the judge you stand there and the judge says “I just want you to know that in the case of Jim Richards the State verses Jim Richards I want you to know we forgive you.” And I’m thinking “Praise God I’m forgiven.” I turn around and I start to walk home and the guy grabs me and throws me in my cell and I’m like “Wait a minute I thought I was forgiven?” Well, you are forgiven but you still got a judgment against you you still got to pay the penalty.”

Sid: Well, it doesn’t even help that you were forgiven then.

Jim: Exactly it doesn’t help at all. The judge went home and said “You know something the State is not mad at Jim Richard’s anymore but I’m still paying the price.” So what we do is we release people from, or we forgive people we say “Okay I forgive you,” because we never release them from the judgment and the ultimate penalty.” And see the penalty that we sometimes pass upon people is “I will have to be angry with you all of your life.” Or the penalty will be “You need to be suffering; for the rest of my life I need to know that you’re suffering.” There has to come a time when I say “You know something since I don’t know why that person did what they did I don’t have the right to sentence them to anything.” Because it’s my assumptions about why they did that caused the pain anyhow. You know my step-father broke into my room, stabbed me in my sleep would have killed me. Let me say by the way before he died by the way I had the opportunity to led to him to Jesus him, my father, my mother, my brother, my sister and most of the people that some time in my life had tried to kill me I got to lead them to Jesus. You know one of the things I discovered about my step-father was 5 years old he was in an automobile accident he lived in rural Alabama. They didn’t have enough money to take him to the doctor he had a piece of glass shoved through his skull. He was screaming in pain they had no way of doing anything about it so they locked him in a shed to die.

Sid: So you had no way of knowing what that man went through that made him the way he was.

Jim: Exactly.

Sid: I tell you what we’re out of time.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I’m so excited about this show. My guest is going to teach you the missing message of Jesus. It’s there. It is in the Gospels. But it’s missing today, and that is Jesus came to heal the broken hearted. And you see, you can’t get everything God promises to you if you have a broken heart. And it’s my conviction in a broken world with a broken devil, with broken people, how do you expect to have a healed heart unless Jesus heals your heart. Now have you ever felt that something is wrong and you don’t know what it is? What a frustrating feeling. That’s what happened to my friend John McTernan. John, what was going on in your life? You’re a believer. You’re speaking before people. You’re not supposed to have a problem, but you do. What’s your problem?

JOHN: Sid, it’s internal and it’s kind of had to explain. But I felt a drain inside. I felt like a car going down the road on the interstate at 65 miles an hour and all sorts of power, speed, and yet it was holding back. There was a power drain inside of me. I could feel it. I knew something was wrong. I had brought it before the Lord for many, many years, and it just sat there. It didn’t go. I had no idea what it was.

SID: Okay. So one day he’s minding his own business, listening to a radio program and the light bulb went on. What happened?

JOHN: There was a woman being interviewed about, she was a psychologist, Christian psychologist, and she’s being interviewed about her research on children of divorce and how every one of them, virtually every one of them had a broken heart, and it affected them where they developed loneliness. That was an outstanding trait of a broken heart of a child from a divorced family. And it was like, bingo, my parents were divorced. I didn’t even know them together. They were divorced before I could remember. And I began to think, and I’m saying, broken heart, maybe that’s what I have. And I sought the Lord about it, and I prayed, and at that point, I didn’t know I had a broken heart. And if you, Sid, had come to me like let’s say years before that and you said, “John, I didn’t know you had a broken heart,” I would go, how? How would it be broken? I had no idea at all. And when I sought the Lord—

SID: You know, I’m reminded the Bible says, “The heart is the most deceitful thing.” Here he is a believer with a broken heart and he’s so programmed to operate with that broken heart he doesn’t even know it’s broken.

JOHN: That’s exactly right, Sid. That’s exactly right. So I knew Luke 4:18. And in Luke 4:18, that is the ministry of Jesus Christ. And we all know that he came to save us from sin. Right?

SID: Of course.

JOHN: But it doesn’t end there. When you look at Luke 4:18, it says, “And he came to heal the broken hearted, to deliver the captives, to open the eyes of the blind and to set at liberty them that are bruised.” We stop right at the salvation message. But if you look in the Bible, there’s a semi-colon, and right after it, it says, “The Lord came to heal the broken hearted.”

SID: There are many other areas that some have had a broken heart of. I mean, a divorced home, that’s enough. But there are a lot of other areas, like what?

JOHN: Sid, rejection, especially with children. I have come to see it’s much easier than we realize to break a child’s heart. Their heart is very tender and it’s very easy to break a child’s heart. But rejection, death. Death can really break a heart. I have found with women, abortion, devastating with breaking the heart. Physical abuse, sexual abuse, the military with men, women in the military now also. But that, what they see and what happens, can break their heart. We call it like post-stress, you know, the trauma and much of that is really a broken heart.

SID: But you know what? Just the peer pressure of a young child going to school and maybe they’re not so pretty, and maybe they hear someone laughing at them, they say nothing. But in a child’s mind, that’s enough to do it. So what was the revelation you had when you started praying?

JOHN: My mother had remarried. Now there is no way on my own I could remember this, because we’re going back now to when I was six years old. And my stepfather, I don’t think, I know he didn’t do this to be malicious. But he approached when I was about six years old about being adopted, and I had no idea what he was talking about.

SID: You thought he was your natural father?

JOHN: No, no. I had, my father would come and visit me, and he was a good friend. I knew him as Joe. I didn’t call him Dad or anything. I knew him as Joe. And my stepfather wanted to block out my father from coming, and he talked to me about adoption. I had no idea what he was talking about. Finally, it dawned on me. I had like a revelation that Joe was my father and this man was my stepfather. And I remember I said to him…

Child: When my name changes, can I still see Joe?

Man: No, you’ll have my name.

Child: No. My name John McTernan.

JOHN: And I knew right then and there the whole thing opened up. I understood perfectly at six years old and I knew if I told my father he would protect me from what was going on. It was a complete revelation, but it broke my heart.

SID: Hold that thought. When we come back, we’re going to find out what God did that so changed his life, that people don’t even recognize him. He doesn’t even recognize himself after his heart is healed by God Himself. But better than that, how about having your broken heart healed? Don’t go away.

Sid: You know what I always saw the bumper sticker “The family that prays together stays together.” Well I have Dr. John Miller on the telephone who has studied communion for the past 22 years, and I would like to make a switch on that. “The family that takes communion together stays together.” How do you like that John?

John: That’s wonderful.

Sid: Actually we’re going to take communion together. We’re going to do it with teaching by Dr. John Miller, and I’m going to pray the Hebrew at the end of each prayer that Dr. John Miller prays. This is the same Hebrew words that Yeshua, Jesus, said at the Last Supper. How do I know this? Because it was a Passover Seder and we have been praying these prayers now thousands of years; so get your elements together get your grape juice, or your wine, and your bread, or your matzah, and let’s partake all together. John I would like to have some understanding from you of what you do when you take communion. First of all, do you take communion every day; do you ever take communion more than once a day?

John: Yes quite often I take communion more than once a day. You know communion is the time set aside for us to sit down and remember, recognize what Jesus did for us. Actually He took the place of all of the sacrifices that were demanded by God’s people in the Old Testament.

Sid: You know what’s kind of interesting on Passover which begins tomorrow, the Jewish festival of Passover, that’s why we do it, to remember what God did for us. So that really ties in, go ahead.

John: So in remembering what Jesus did for us we need to take account of ourselves. Remember we talked about the passage in 1^st Corinthians 11 where it said “He that eateth and drinketh unworthily” and we discussed what that really means, but it also says “Let a man examine himself.” When you sit down to have communion you need to examine yourself in many areas because you’re going to be identifying with the sacrifice of redemption that Jesus made at Cavalry for you. We discussed 3 areas out of Isaiah 53:5 spiritual, mental, and physical. So let’s start with examining yourself for those; what are your spiritual? What are your mental needs? What are your physical needs? See people don’t sit down and examine themselves to see what do they need to participate with the redemption that Jesus brought. We have financial needs; there’s emotional needs; there’s ethical needs; relationship needs, you talked about that at the end of our last program; families their relationship getting better when they have communion. Social needs, educational needs, vocational needs, so you’re to examine yourself and see what needs you have because Paul said “I care to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ in Him crucified.” Which means any problem that comes against a person will be in the spiritual, mental, or physical area. The only problem that we weren’t redeemed from by what Jesus did at Cavalry was persecution for the gospel sake.

Sid: What about long life?

John: Well you know I’m a nutritionist and there’s a saying in nutrition “You are what you eat.” I like to think I’m on my way back to age 33 physiologically (laughing) when I take communion. Jesus’ body was 33 when it died.

Sid: Well you better be careful if you take it too many times you may get too young looking.

John: (Laughing)

Sid: I’m just teasing, but I know that what you’re saying is truth. I know, and you’re teasing in a sense, but I know that what you are saying… I have to tell you something I have never felt better in my life, and I believe I am getting younger, I really believe it.

John: In the one area that we have fallen so short in in the church is this mental area. I want to read some of the words out of Isaiah 53 that Jesus “The chastisement of our peace was upon Him.” Listen to these words: rejected, “He is despised and rejected of men.” So He suffered rejection for us. He was despised for us. Sorrows, griefs, in verse 7 it says “Oppressed,” He was oppressed. Now secular and religious psychologist and psychiatrist treat people for the depression, the oppression, fear, rejection. Everyone has suffered some rejection, but can you imagine making man and then coming to redeem man and man not accepting you.

Sid: Hmm.

John: Every one of us is met with a certain amount of rejection. None of us has ever met with the rejection that He had. In Isaiah 50 verse 6 says “I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.” Not only did he pay for the sin that you committed, but He took the shame and the guilt that goes with it. Now depending upon what study you’re in people say that… people in the hospital treated for disease, not all, from like 70-90% are there due to a psychosomatic disorder. This is a physical disorder that came from a mental state. That’s why the atonement is spiritual, mental, and physical. You cannot walk in physical health if you don’t walk in mental health; you cannot walk in mental health, the peace that passes all understanding, until you walk in spiritual health. So we need to examine ourselves spiritually, mentally, and physically when we sit down to have communion.

Sid: John our time’s slipping away I think we better take communion now. I’ve got the elements in front of me I have a little piece of matzah, and I have, I don’t know if it’s wine or grape juice personally as a Jew… oh I don’t want to get into that theological bomb shell. John if you would pray over the elements and when you finish praying I’ll chant the Hebrew for the matzah and the wine.

John: Okay. Father as I hold this unleavened bread up to you I thank you for it. I ask that you sanctify it as the body of Christ that redeemed me spiritually, mentally, and physically. As I partake of the body of Christ I receive healing in every organ, every cell, and every function in my body in Jesus name.

Sid: And you know as I look at this matzah, and we’ll be having Passover starting tomorrow, and many of us will be eating matzah, it is unleavened. Meaning its represents the sinless body of the Messiah, but it is also striped representing the 39 stripes that Jesus took for us. We discern that those stripes covered every physical infirmity and sickness and pain, and mental, and emotional trauma; spirit, soul, and body. (Singing) Baruch atah Adonai Elohaynu Mehlehch haolam hamotsee lechem meen ha-arets – amen.  You may eat, but discern the body as you are eating. John if you would take the grape juice.

John: Yes Lord we thank you for this wine as representing the blood of Jesus which justified us in Your site. We receive now the blood of Jesus in our life which cleanses us from all unrighteousness. The life of the flesh is in the blood, so Father we receive Your life right now anew in our bodies as we receive this wine in Jesus name.

Sid: Just before you take the wine and recognize the rabbi’s say on Passover the wine can only be red representing, they don’t say this but I say it, the blood of Messiah. Yeshua took the wine and He prayed Baruch atah Adonai Elohaynu Mehlehch haolam boray p’ree hagafen – amen. You may drink the wine. John one last thought on communion.

John: I look at daily communion as going through the bank. If you were in a business that you needed a lot of cash, so you would pull in the bank and write out a withdrawal slip and they would give you the cash to carry on your day’s business. If you never took the time out to write the withdrawal slip and drive thru the bank and get the money, you’re not going to have it. That’s the same way with your spiritual, mental, and physical health. You need to sit down and take the time to make the withdrawal; Jesus already made the deposit and it’s up to us to make the withdrawal.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be a worker, we want everyone everywhere you have got such unique DNA there is no one that has ever been created just like you, and you have a purpose, you have a destiny.  And I have found something and I am going to shout it from the roof tops it’s a new book by James Rutz it called “Mega Shift” because there is a MEGA SHIFT going on in the Body of Messiah.  Part of this mega shift I’ve been talking about for 20 years and that is the law of evangelism going to the Jew first which opens up a supernatural door of evangelism to Gentiles greater than if you’d gone to the Gentile first.  And celebrating the Biblical festivals because they’re not just Biblical festivals they’re not just Jewish festivals, they are God’s feasts.  And in the Hebrew the word feasts means set appointments, they are appointments with God. But because many people have taken these Biblical feasts and have become legalistic or said they had something to do with your salvation people have thrown out the baby with the dirty bath water.  But it’s time to take these God appointments and Tim and Katie what I see is this house church movement and the institutional church movement are not working opposite each other it’s all  part of the body of Messiah. And I can see all of us coming together for a feast of Tabernacles celebration and we won’t have a football game going on during that day because we’ll rent the entire football stadium and will all come together worship God on a God festival He will show up and Jewish people that don’t know the Messiah will say “What is this, black and white, and male and female, and Jew and Gentile and African American and Hispanic, and Asian and Native American, and what is going on?  And they’re dancing together and they love each other and people are getting healed and then if you’ll allow me I’d like to put this on my television show It’s Supernatural. And I’ve got Time and Katie Mather in the office right now, they’re spokesman for the Mega-shift Ministry.  Can you see that?  Can you see stadiums filled with God’s children and God being so pleased that He shows up.

Tim:  I think that the Lord’s going to give us back this culture, I think that He’s going to give us back this culture and the impact isn’t for the culture or for the politics it’s for the Kingdom of God. And as we come together and set aside all those differences we have to set aside especially those that may be listening who are part of the people who have left structural institutional church.

Sid: Are there many like this around the United States.

Tim:  The researchers Barna Research says right now it’s a little difficult to grasp, but between 20 and 30 million born again, Bible believing Christian people have left the institutional church and are not going back.

Sid: And why have most of them left, do you know I’m sure it’s diverse reasons but what would you say?

Tim:  I would say that many are angry, they’re angry at being told to mobilize what we’ve been talking about, we’ve been told to mobilize and then not being allowed to mobilize not being allowed to do anything.  And there’s a lot of spiritual abuse that happens in that process of restraining people while saying go out and do.

Katie: I think a lot are just hungry for more, they’ve been… a lot of them have been in the church for a long time, they’ve done everything that there is to do within the structure, but they know that there is so much more that the Lord wants to do within them that they’re capable of.  Because of the mobility of our society and even being able to go around the world they know that that they can do so much more for Christ. 

Sid: Katie from your eyes, I know every meeting in a house church is different. Could you paint me a picture of what might happen at one meeting in your house congregation?  First of all how many people might you have there?

Katie:  Well, it could be anywhere from 2 or 3, the very smallest and the Lord shows up even among 2 or 3.  We suggest that don’t go any higher than 12 or 15 because then you really lose the intimacy of the small group where people are able to share with one another sharing their lives and what the Lord’s doing in their lives. Because when it gets larger than 15 it’s time to divide, where in the institution they see that division is a bad thing.  Within the home church community division is a good thing that means growth, that means now one fellowship can become 2 or 3 and even grow even more.

Sid: But what goes on in the meeting itself?

Katie: In the meeting itself we see a lot of things happen, people come with whatever they have to bring.  And sometimes it’s a revelation they’ve received personally from the Lord.  Sometimes it’s a scripture that’s really been burning in their heart that they want to share that the Lord’s been speaking to them.  Some have come with songs that they have written and they share them and others are moved. Some come with a problem and share it and others are able to pray over them.  One home meeting a fellow stood up and said “I feel that there are several people here who are caring such brokenness in their spirit that it’s time now to really give  that to the Lord so why don’t you just let us just pray for you.”  And actually not just 1 or 2 stepped up but 4 stepped forward and said “Yeah, that’s me.”  And we had opportunity to pray with them for deep healing and some long carried wounds in their life.  One of those people even had a restoration in their relationship with their father and to see that kind of change and transformation really bring about something supernatural in people’s lives is a powerful thing to happen in a small group.

Sid: Tim a lot of people that are believers that have not dropped out of the system like the big churches because they can hide.  Can you hide in a home church?

Tim:  It’s a little difficult to hide when you’re sitting across the room from someone and they look and say “Hey what’s going on with you?” and begin conversation it’s a little difficult to hide. And so the anonymity that we like in the big group is basically lost in the living room.

Sid: Well, one of the things I said to both of you is I want you, I didn’t say this I should have, I want your number one as my guest to have fun and number two I want you to yield to the Spirit of God not to me.  And the only restriction is time because that we don’t have control over.  However, is that what you’d tried to do at your house meeting what I’m trying to do right now on the air?

Tim:  Yeah, absolutely finding out who people are, where they are and letting them bring a piece to this puzzle that we find Jesus in them and they begin to minister to that one to another and they become… there is a rich koinonia and that’s developed.  And I as a recovering pastor

Sid: (Laughing)

Tim:  I have gained rich insight and my life is much richer having these people talk to me and minister to me and care for me in the midst of it instead of me having to be the all-knowing, all seeing-eye.

Sid: So Tim what can someone do in your house church that they could not do in their traditional church be it charismatic, evangelical, what?

Tim: Imagine on a standard whatever kind of church it is a Sunday morning and the pastors saying something whatever in his message and it hits you. And it doesn’t have to hit you wrong but it hits you and you have some sort of revelation on it and what if you just stood up and said “Wait a minute I have something to say about that I’ve got an idea about that.”  Just imagine how that would work in your Sunday morning service.  I think you would find out what the term usher means as they usher you out of the room. (Laughing)

 Sid: (Laughing) Tell me some of the other differences, for instance let’s look at it this way a pastor recognizes this problem in a traditional style church and they start house groups and these are small and so it seems to me that will accomplish the same thing and yet you say no.

Tim:  The issue is back to a matter of control, and I had to learn this as a recovering pastor I had to learn how to let people do what they wanted to do, let people share out of their heart and not always tell them the right answer.  Come in and be the strong arm and take control of the gathering.

Sid: But aren’t you afraid of wild fire?

Tim:  Absolutely I think a little wild fire once in a while cleans the forest out.  There’s all sorts of dangers that people can focus on.

Sid: You know what I like to say?

Tim:  What?

Sid: I like to say in most churches there’s no fire; oh God give me some.

Katie: Well, Tim’s always said “I’d rather be a fireman than an undertaker so.”

Tim: I’d rather be in a fire, yeah because the issue is it would be…it would be good to have a little fun have a little tension or something.

Sid:  So what is your preparation for your meeting?

Tim: My preparation is life, the issue is that we don’t even use the term meeting anymore we use…

Sid: What do you use?

Tim: We just “You want to come over to our house we just invite friends. 

Katie: We’re getting together.

Tim:  Come on over we’re going to eat because as you start putting these tags on it then people have expectation, people have their paradigms of what it’s going to be what it needs to be and if you say this is a meeting, if you line up chairs the little things that don’t seem important. If you line up chairs; I have one friend who when he first got into the house church he built himself a pulpit that he had put up in his living room and every time they met and he spoke to them because it’s in our DNA the institution. And so we just decide whatever the institution, however the institution would do it let’s do it differently.  And making room, getting out of the way, getting our agenda out of the way and letting the Holy Spirit show up and let Him do what He wants to do.  Sometimes the meeting will be about one person.  In the institution generally the meeting was about me and what I had to say as a pastor.

Sid: Our time is slipping away.

 

SID: David Martin has received supernatural keys that when you operate in these keys, what did God say would happen?

DAVID: Signs, wonders and miracles beyond anything I’d ever imagine possible.

SID: Literally Heaven on Earth. Let’s talk about the key of obedience.

DAVID: Well there are so many, as we just in the phenomenal story of the Rwanda impartation, being obedient to do whatever He says. And God has told me some things to do that really didn’t make a lot of sense. But this one—

SID: And that goes back to your thinking getting in the way of the supernatural.

DAVID: So true, Sid, so true. And in this case, in this particular story, I heard about a gal that was dying, 28 years old, two or three children as I remember, doctors had done everything they could over the course of time, numbers of years, sent her home to die. I heard about it and I felt like God said to me, “Make yourself available to go pray for her.” And so a friend of mine that told me the story called the father and said that I’d be happy to go to minister to his daughter. And he said, “No,” a very prominent businessman. He said, “We’ve already had great men of God here.” He’s a very prominent minister besides businessman, and on a number of minister boards, and said, “We don’t need you.’ But God said, go. And again, he was 1500 miles away from Tulsa and God said, “Go,” Sid. So I bought an airplane ticket, flew there.

SID: Wait a second. Did you get that? God said go. Her father said don’t. Now what would you have done? David is determined to obey what God says. So you went there. What happened?

DAVID: Well I called the father from the airport and said, “I’m here to pray for your daughter.” And he said, “I told you not to come” I said, “Well God said come.” So he allowed me to come out and pray for his daughter and I prayed. That first day, there was a small, enough improvement, that he let me come back day after day for a week. By the end of the week, Sid, she was completely totally healed.

SID: You know, if you hadn’t gone, number one, you wouldn’t have learned and had the joy of seeing God operate through you. But number two, that young lady might not have ever gotten better.

DAVID: Well they had sent her home to die, and that was over 10 years ago.

SID: Okay. Let’s talk about the key of humility. Now this is an area that very few people teach on, very few people are interested in. It seems like society is the opposite of what God says. God says, “Humble yourself.”

DAVID: Well the key aspect of humility is the Bible says, “He resists the proud, but he gives more grace to the humble.” Grace as I see it is God’s ability to do for us what we can’t do for ourselves.

SID: I like that.

DAVID: I think Charles Katz gave me that. But it’s God’s ability to do for you what you can’t do for yourself. It’s Divine intervention and that’s what we need. We need God’s Divine intervention. That’s what sets the stage for the supernatural. Literally, this was in 1983. I had just moved to Oklahoma to go to Bible school in ’82, serving in the church, on the platform. And literally, the ceiling disappeared. The roof, there was an open vision. I didn’t know it was a vision at first. I thought a tornado came. But I’m looking up at the blue sky. But there in the blue sky, Sid, I saw, I received the sovereign vision, a sphere of light with beams of light touching just a handful of people in the congregation. And I said, “God, what are you showing me?” He said, “I’m ministering to those that are ministering to me, those that are worshiping me in spirit and truth, and literally those that are walking in humility. “These people,” He said, “recognize their need for me. They’re not living in self-sufficiency. They’re walking in obedience of my word. They’re humbling themselves and they know they need me.” Then He showed me a second vision. In a second vision, I saw a battery with two posts, a positive and a negative, and when you touch a positive wire to a negative wire there’s an unseen force. And this is the key thing that He was showing me. The beam is an unseen force. We can’t see it, but we’re connected to God by this unseen field of energy of sorts. So the second vision was, again, unseen energy of electricity. And when you connect a positive to a negative there’s sparks. There’s heat. There’s a transfer of power. And God said to me, “I am representative of the positive side and those that walk in humility are the negative.” And then He showed me another picture, again, with positive and negative of magnets, again, unseen field of energy, magnetism. And again, put two positives together, in this case they repel. Two negatives, they repel, but two opposites, positive, negative, they’re attracted and they’re held together by the unseen force. And God said to me, “That’s how my spirit works.” When you walk in negativity, not in the way of behavior or in a mindset, but in need of me, you live a life that you need me, you’re worshiping me, for every breath that you have you’re the negative.

SID: But here in America most people don’t look at God that way. They look at God when they have an emergency rather than God, I need you to exist today. God, I need you to be the husband to my wife. God, I need you to be the father to my children. God, I need you to be, to have me walk in Divine health. God, I need you every second. That’s what you’re talking about. But we don’t have a mindset like that.

DAVID: Well, towards Him or His work. And this was one of the key things He showed me, is that we need to have that respect and recognition. His word is absolute truth and we need to live according to it. So if He says, meditate on the Word day and night, that’s not a suggestion, that is a commandment.

SID: You know what? Most of us pick and choose which things, which precepts to follow in the Bible and which not to. But God says that’s His whole word. I think we have to have, as you put it, as God told you, we have to have a new mindset. Wait until you hear some of the miracles that happened when he starts following this new mindset. We’ll be right back.

SID: Now Jennifer coined a new word. You’ve heard of alcoholism. She didn’t coin that. Her word is “doubtaholism”. What are the symptoms of doubtaholism?

JENNIFER: That’s right. Doubtaholism, it’s a spiritual disease, is how I characterize it. And some of the symptoms include confusion. If you’re confused it means you’ve been reasoning in your mind a little bit too much. God gave us reasoning. He expects us to use our natural intellect. But when we go beyond reasoning into confusion we just don’t know what to do any more. We’re wavering between two opinions. We’re confused. We become double-minded. And the Bible says that a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways, and he shouldn’t think he’s going to receive anything from God. So if you’re not receiving from God then it’s possible that you’ve got doubt in your heart. And doubt is so subtle. It’s sneaky. And again, talking about mental ascent, we sit in church. We hear great messages every week. We say amen. You know, we give a nod, we give a clap, we give a shout. We go home. We read our Bibles. And what we have a tendency to do, Sid, is we read what we believe rather than believing what we read.

SID: Oh. That is profound. Would you say that again.

JENNIFER: We read what we believe rather than believing what we read. And what I mean by that is we’ve been taught, many of us, we’ve sat under great Bible teachers for decades or we’ve been taught by our families, or we’ve just been taught by life experiences. So we have these filters, these glasses, and we’re looking at the world, we’re looking at the Word through our worldview. And that isn’t always what the truth of the matter is. We have to begin to look at God’s Word and take it for face value, take it literally. If God said, that’s exactly what He means.

SID: Okay. But there’s an obstacle as we talked about, this doubt, unbelief. What did God show you? How did you get rid of that?

JENNIFER: I was studying Kenneth Hagin’s material and just devouring that material some years ago. And I remember studying and studying, and studying, but my faith didn’t seem to be working, and I was really frustrated. I’m like, how can I be studying—

SID: You know what I’m reminded of, because I read his material, too, and Jennifer quotes something. She says, “God is not moved by your need. God is only moved by your faith.” And we say, oh God, how come you’re healing everyone else. I need you to heal me. God, where are you? None of you can relate to that. Right? You can. Explain that statement.

JENNIFER: Well God already knows what we need before we ask Him. What God is really after, again, He’s after our heart. He wants a relationship with us. He wants us to interact with Him at a heart level, and when we do that we cultivate that intimacy with God, our heart connecting with His heart, there’s no more room for doubt. Doubt has to go. There’s no more room for fear. Fear has to go. But it’s about cultivating that intimate relationship with God.

SID: The revelation that God gave you as to how you, because if she can do it, you can do it, and if she can do it, you can do it better. So tell me what God showed you that you had to do to get rid of your doubt and unbelief.

JENNIFER: There were two things, really. It’s the combination of these two things that’s so powerful. It taps into the supernatural at every level. It’s meditating on the Word of God and praying in the Spirit like Paul taught.

 

SID: Let’s start with this meditating on the Word of God. That’s a word that a lot of people don’t understand. What does it mean to you and what did you do?

JENNIFER: Meditating on the Word of God is to chew on it, to roll it over and over in your mouth, in your mind, to confess it, to say it, to say it over and over. And what I like to do is I like to take a certain scripture, whatever scripture it is that I’m trying to get down in my spirit at the time. Because I like to build my faith before I release my prayer. So what I’ll do is if I need provision I will take a scripture, “My God shall supply all of my needs according to His riches and glory,” and I will say each word. I will emphasize as I go. I will say, “MY God shall supply.” It makes it personal, talking about MY God. And I say, “My GOD shall supply.” That makes it about Him. So it’s about me, it’s about Him. We’re in this together. My God SHALL. And that’s a promise. That’s the strongest word in the English language, the word “shall”. And I go on down the line in that way.

SID: You know, meditating is so important. Doctors have proven that if you say a lie long enough, you will believe that it’s true. What if you say the strongest thing in this world, the Word of God long enough, a light bulb coming on. And people don’t, as Jennifer said, chew on the Word of God. They just swallow it whole. Now you talked about a second thing God showed you.

JENNIFER: Praying in the Spirit. Paul teaches about praying in the Spirit in several places in the Bible, but so does Jude. He says, “Building yourself up in your most holy faith, praying in the Spirit.” And so when you pray in the Spirit, you’re strengthening your spirit. You’re strengthening your heart. And it becomes easier to believe with all your heart, because the more full your heart gets of the Word, the more full you get of the Spirit, fear has to go. Doubt has to go.

SID: Now you’ve come up with something I have never seen, the revelation she has on doubtaholism. You’ve come up with 12 separate steps that if someone will do this, they will supernaturally remove doubtaholism. And if you can do that, guess what? You will believe with all your heart and what you say will come to pass. Tell me one of these principles.

JENNIFER: Well like anything else, the first step is to admit that you have a problem

SID: Now why wouldn’t someone admit that they have a problem?

JENNIFER: Pride.

SID: A-ha! A-ha. The devil made you do it. No!

JENNIFER: It’s pride. We don’t, or just that we don’t know, we don’t recognize, we don’t discern that voice of doubt. It’s so subtle. You know, you think it’s you, but it’s not you. It’s the enemy trying to rob your faith.

SID: You just said an interesting word. Doubt, the voice of doubt is subtle. Explain that a little to me.

JENNIFER: It’s almost as if it’s your thought. You know, when Eve was in the garden with Adam, the serpent came and basically caused her to doubt God’s Word just by asking a question. Did God really say that? And that’s what the devil does with us now. The enemy, he will pose a question, well did God really mean that? Did God really mean that healing is for today? And cause you to doubt that your healing will not come to pass because Jesus isn’t healing any more, when in fact he is. The Word says he is.

SID: Now you’ve been healed of high blood pressure. You’ve been healed, you used to go on missions trips and every time you’d have ankle problems. Do you have them today?

JENNIFER: I have nothing of that. I’m walking.

SID: How’s your blood pressure?

JENNIFER: My blood pressure is perfectly normal.

SID: Okay. Would you pray that we would be able to discern the subtle voice of doubt and unbelief right now.

JENNIFER: Yes. Yes. Father, I thank you for everyone watching and everyone within the sound of my voice. I thank you, Lord, that you give us discernment, a sharper edge, God, to understand and know that voice of doubt, to recognize it at its onset, that we might not meditate on the word of doubt, the word of the enemy, that we might meditate on the Word of God. I just release right now by the Spirit of God an anointing to discern, an anointing to hear. I unclog the ears of those who have been listening to doubt. I bind it and I command it to go in Jesus’ name. Amen.

SID: Yeah. I’m not moved by feelings. But I can tell you, I felt as if light bulbs were going on, and people are beginning to recognize. I’ve got some advice for you. Forget what lies behind. Forget the failures and the mistakes. Do what you were just instructed to do. Number one, meditate on God’s Word. Number two, pray in supernatural languages. You know, Jennifer, I’ve been praying an hour a day and it is, I’m going to tell you, I’ve walked up, in the last couple of months, I’ve walked up to people and this never really happened before. People, the presence of God is pouring out of me and people are falling over. One waitress said, what happened to me and I was able to explain that to her. Well it’s wonderful that I’m doing this. It’s wonderful that Jennifer is doing this. But you are called. You are chosen. You have a purpose. You have a destiny to dust yourself off, stand up and get back into the play.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with David Herzog, and we’re having fun. I want you to have fun. What happens when someone dies in a hospital? You’re having meetings in the same town and you find out about it. Is there a distance in asking God for a miracle? Could you ask for a miracle of someone in the hospital even if you’re not there? David, what happened in Gabon, Africa?

DAVID: I was in Africa. I got up to speak in this huge large outdoor healing campaign. And as I got up, God said, “Announce to the people that a girl has just died in the hospital and the mother is in the audience hoping that she’ll get healed.” So I announce this. A great way to start crusade. I announce this. And suddenly a lady comes up crying, ‘That’s my daughter. No, she can’t be dead!” And I announced, “Yes, she’s dead.” And then God said, “Now pray for her to come back from the dead.” I asked them, “Which direction was the hospital?” They pointed it out and I began to pray, “In the name of Jesus, I command her spirit to come back in her body in Jesus’ name.” And then I continued with miracle meetings and healings, and signs and wonders occur, salvations. She got home and got to the hospital. And they said, “Ma’am, when you left she died. We covered her with a sheet. But at a certain hour the sheet began to move, and we looked, and she had come back from the dead.” It was the same hour we started decreeing that the dead be raised and her spirit come back in her body.

SID: What David teaches is that when the manifest presence of God invades a place, things actually speed up. Time can literally be compressed. Tell me about the time you had to go from Paris to Belgium.

DAVID: It’s about a three-hour drive from Paris to Belgium, where I was going. And my car broke down. I put in the wrong gas. I put regular instead of diesel. But I didn’t tell the person inviting me. So I called and said, “Listen, my car broke down and I won’t be able to make it by 7:30. It’s already 7:30 now.” And it started at seven. I said, “I’ll be there in about three hours, maybe 10:30, 11. So sorry. I’ll see you there.” Got out of my car, began to worship God for a nice 45 minutes. And suddenly I started feeling lighter and lighter. I looked outside and I was in Belgium. I was in front of the church. It took me 45 minutes of me getting into a realm of glory, and then in a split second I was transported to the country in front of the building, and I walked in at 8:15. They couldn’t believe it. They were still doing the music. And they said, “I thought you were, how did you get here? Did you take a helicopter?” And I realized that God bends time. It’s like you got point A, point B, but in the Glory, no time. And what happens is the Glory begins to invade the time realm and bends the time continuum where point A and point B become the same location.

SID: Many of you have wondered how could God, the Creator of the universe, make everything we see with our eyes out of nothing. How did God do that, David?

DAVID: How did he make it out of nothing? Actually, He didn’t do it out of nothing. That’s what we’ve been taught.

SID: Right.

DAVID: But actually, the Bible says in Hebrews that He created visible things out of invisible things. And so the invisible ingredients God used was, number one, in the beginning, the spirit or presence, or glory was moving. You can’t see the spirit most of the time, but it’s there. It’s invisible. Second invisible ingredient is sound. When the Glory was there, God said, “Let there be light.” And invisible sound when it bonds with invisible glory, it creates a visible substance.

SID: You know, there’s a scientific field called quantum physics, and they’re just beginning to understand what the Book of Genesis states. If you really want to understand science look at the Bible and then have science catch up with the facts. Tell me about what you found out from science about sound.

DAVID: Sound is incredible. Sound waves are embedded in everything in creation from the time of Genesis. Even your bones and your body parts have sound. That’s why you don’t have just say, “God please heal.” You can speak to the body part and the sound waves inside the atoms, those sound waves called quirks can hear and obey human voice commands, especially if you’re a believer in the God of Israel, and you command. And we’ve seen body parts recreated by speaking to the sound waves inside the body parts to be healed.

SID: How does someone, and this happens often when we speak, they instantly lose weight. How is this actually, how is God doing this?

DAVID: Well I explain it this way. It says, “Let your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.” So if you walk into Heaven right now, because of the Glory that’s there, if you are 300 pounds or you had a cancer, or anything was wrong with you, you would immediately be healed. Well that same Glory is here right now in the studio. When the Glory touches Earth the speed of Heaven hits the earth. Even right now as we’re talking, there’s people in the studio audience right now that are overweight, and you’ve been hoping to get healed. And if you’re in the studio audience right now or on TV, I want you to stand up right now where you’re at and start checking your waistline right now. Don’t wait. Just stand up. Even in the audience, the studio audience. And if you need to lose weight start checking your waistline right now. And I just release those miracles and those angels that operate in those kind of miracles now over your body. And check if there’s anything wrong with you.

SID: While you’re checking we’re going to be right back after this word. And I am really going to expect the Glory of God to speed everything up in your life: finances, health, family coming to know God. Every arena will speed up. Why? The Messiah is getting ready to return. Be right back.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here with Tony Kemp. And we’re talking about an amazing end time move for the devil. It is one of the major heresies to ever hit the church, and it’s spreading throughout Christian television and Christian radio, and books and conferences. It’s called the counterfeit grace message. Now Tony, people would say, wait a second, Tony, you’re saved by grace, not by works. What are you talking about?

TONY: Well here’s what I would say. I would say that grace is the influence of God in my life, the presence of God in my life and the power of God in my life. And grace produces genuine repentance. Where I bring to Jesus the fruit of repentance, grace produces right living everyday, and grace produces intimacy with the person of Jesus and with God the Father.

SID: I like that kind of grace.

TONY: Amen. Amen. Grace is powerful. Grace causes people to be safe from their sins, delivered from darkness. Grace causes people to walk in holiness, causes God to enjoy his sons and daughters, and grace enables you to enjoy God like never before.

SID: What would you say to someone that says, but wait a second, Tony, you can’t get away from God’s grace.

TONY: I would say this. I would say that the Word of God says that you can fall from grace. And the apostle Paul said in Galatians 1, he said, “I marvel that you are so removed from him who called you into the grace of the Messiah. And talked about it to those Galatian believers who decided to backslide, and he actually makes this phrase. He said, “You have fallen from grace.” Now listen, Sid, I’m going to listen to the apostle Paul. I’m going to listen to Jesus who told people that they had to obey him to the end.

SID: Well listen, these false teachers use the scripture. There’s no condemnation. They say, let’s just preach love. That’s the only way people will come to know Jesus. Let’s get this condemnation business gone. In fact, God says there’s no condemnation in Messiah Jesus.

TONY: Well let’s talk about love. Because in the Book of Revelation, Chapter 3, Jesus addresses the church in [unintelligible]. And this is what he says: “As many as I love, I rebuke and correct.” He said, “[unintelligible] and turn from sin.” That’s my first response. Here’s my second response. Jesus, because he loves us, Jesus represents the Father. What father has a son or daughter that he doesn’t correct or chasten, or bring into character development. And so when we receive the correction of God we receive the direction of God, and we come into character development with just holiness.

SID: Okay. But the scripture actually says, Tony, there’s no condemnation for those that are [unintelligible].

TONY: Romans 8:1 says this: “There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus who do not walk after the flesh, but walk after the spirit. For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.”

SID: So they leave the last part of the verse out.

TONY: And that’s what makes it a counterfeit message, because God sent his son to condemn sin and the flesh. And when I surrender to his son Jesus, the righteousness of the teaching, the instruction, the law fulfilled in me as I walk in and by the power of the spirit.

SID: You had a vision, multiple visions of the Lake of Fire, of Hell. Tell me what you saw.

TONY: Well it all began in 1989, where I had an out of body experience. An angel came to me and I was taken to Heaven. But as I was on my way to Heaven, I saw the souls of those that were departing Earth, and they went into a portal toward the Lake of Fire. Later on in the mid to late 1990s, I had two visions. And I saw the Lake of Fire, fire, brimstone. And then God Almighty took me up close to one individual who was hanging in the fire and suffering, tormented because of disobedience and rebellion to the Word of God, and because they did not live for Jesus the Messiah.

SID: Hell is real to you.

TONY: It’s real.

SID: Hell is real. And I’ll tell you what concerns me the most, you know, Tony, and audience, what concerns me the most is people that are in sin that aren’t concerned about the sin that they’re in. I mean, I talked to someone recently that is a homosexual, and this person didn’t seem to be bothered one iota. Do you know why she wasn’t bothered? She is this close to having her conscience seared. And once your conscience is seared you cannot be convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit. The counterfeit grace message says that the Holy Spirit doesn’t convict you of sin under the New Covenant. You just don’t know the Bible. I’m concerned about you that are involved in the sin of pornography. I’m concerned about you that are involved in the sin of drugs and addiction. I’m concerned about you that are having sex outside of marriage. I’m concerned about you that are involved in the new age. Do you know how close you are to having your conscience so singed, so seared that you won’t be able to repent. But you would not watching this show right now if you had crossed the line. Repent. The Kingdom of God is now. Repentance means turn from your sin, believe that the blood of Jesus washes you away when you repent, and turn to God for the power to be free. The Messiah says, “You shall know the truth.” He’s a person. His name is Jesus. “You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.” Choose life. You do not know when your end will come. As smart as you are, you do not know when your end will come, and I don’t want to see your conscience seared so you can’t repent. It will never be easier than this moment, never easier than this second. Make your peace with God right now in Jesus’ name.

Sid:  I have got a mentoring tool for you and for the young people in your life, the author Peggy Joyce Ruth.  Speaking to her at her home in Brownwood, Texas and Peggy Joyce went through a horrible experience; although she was raised a church as a born again Christian she got involved over her head in the demonic with trying to witness.  Doing an honorable thing witnessing to a Buddhist neighbor but she didn’t understand the word; she wasn’t equipped with the promises of God.  And so she almost went under – electric shock treatments and all sorts of drugs and one day in desperation she cried out a prayer but it was an honest prayer.  She had bottomed and the prayer was “If you exist Lord get me out of this!”  And God took her through a series of first the baptism in the Holy Spirit, second deliverance, and then filling herself up with the word of God.  What a combination, that’s what the early church did you know.  When a Jewish person came to the Lord in the First Church they would say a profession of faith and then they would be immersed it’s called mikvah under the waters, and then was the belief that when they went under the waters, when they came up in the Name of Yeshua the old man and all the demons and all the deliverance would be taken care of and stay under the water.  And they’d come up praising God in tongues. Then they wouldn’t even have to be forced to learn the word of God because it was natural for Jewish people to memorize scripture back then and to mediate on the word of God.  And that’s why the Church was so explosive back then, but Peggy Joyce didn’t understand this however through a series of dreams and visions she understood it and God spoke one of the verses of Psalm 91 to her.  She didn’t even know that was one of the verses; the verse was “In your day of trouble call on Me and I will answer.”  Peggy Joyce as a summary what has God shown you as to why Psalm 91 is so significant.

Peggy:  Well, it’s so significant because I had so many fears and you know man today has so many fears. Every time he looks at the news and every protection promise that is in the Word of God and there’s protection promises all through the Word. The only place where all these protection promises are brought together in one covenant is here in Psalm 91.  And every evil known to man going to fall in one of the four categories and all four categories are listed there in Psalm 91 with this promise that if we dwell in His shelter and acknowledge and look to Him as our protector then this evil will not approach us.  And I was so excited when God gave me the opportunity to start studying this Psalm for months and months I studied it I’ve been teaching it for about 30 years and now the Lord has really impressed me to write this book for young children and then another one for youth.

Sid: Peggy Joyce as we discussed yesterday if you had only been taught this as a child you would not have gone through the living Hell that you went through and torment.  But there are young people that were raised in the church you teach at that you taught Psalm 91 to and then they went into the military and tell me a couple testimonies.

Peggy: Well, one of the testimonies; there are several but one of the young men that grew up in our church his names Jake and he had moved off with his family when he was in his teenage years, but he happened to come back into Brownwood.  Now he had heard about Psalm 91 all through the years he was in Brownwood but he happened to come back right before he left for boot camp; when to a Bible study where I just happened to be teaching Psalm 91 that particular time I don’t teach it every week but that particular day I did.  And he went into Iraq as an infantry machine gunner.  He was into Iraq on the first day of the war he’s been there twice; and he wrote to me when he got home and he said I had heard it and I believed it but he said, “When you taught it that night he said it went inside of me and he said it brought me through my duty in Iraq without a scratch physically or spiritually.  And then he just started giving me all kinds of examples, he said, “One night they were in a six to seven hour exchange of fire.” And he said, “It got to an insane level where even when they sent the helicopters in the first helicopter that came in was shot down and he started praying he said he just got back down and started praying Psalm 91 right then again over himself and over the men that were with him; and he said he didn’t get a scratch, he said two of the marines including his company commander they both got a shot in the head by a sniper fire.  But he said “Miraculously that bullet didn’t even penetrate the skull,” he said “It went in and it just circled around under the skin and came out the back and the doctor in both cases said it was just a flesh wound.”  He said that “There was another time that he was walking down the street and there was a group of people with him he didn’t know them but he said someone threw a gangrened and he said the man standing directly next to him was killed instantly.”  And he said, “Many around him he didn’t know them but there were wounded.” but he said, “He didn’t get one piece of shrapnel.  And he said “I know,” he said “I know beyond a shadow of doubt” he said “I know that my protection spiritually, physically, emotionally he said it was because I was standing on Psalm 91.”  And so this is the advantage of training them young because oh my goodness he had it in him but he just needed that one Bible study to kind of spark it.  And that’s what I’m believing that these books are going to do that they are going to just spark it inside of these young people.

Sid:  Well, tell me a little bit about I’m so intrigued with because I’ve got three granddaughters with this it’s called a board book and it has the most beautiful illustrations and it’s designed for children say 1 to 8 tell me a bit about the history of this.

Peggy: Yes, well I’m excited about it too, I’ve paraphrased Psalm 91 in the book so that a young child can understand and then on each page it has a full color illustration and these are so good that even without the words the illustrations would put across the message.

Sid: Now, where did you get this artist from its really dramatic for these children they’re not going to forget the promises of Psalm 91 especially when they go over it every night and you even have a prayer of salvation at the end which I love.

Peggy: Yes, well this artist God just supernaturally got his name to me he’s from Brazil and he was so anointed that we didn’t even have to have him redo even one of the pictures and that’s just unheard of.  You know usually you’ll have to send it back but we told him I said, “I want them to be able to look at your illustration and I want them to get the message even if they happen not to read the words on the page. For example the page telling about angelic protection has this strong masculine angel there.  Well, that’s going to speak immediately to a child of angel protection.  The page showing God’s protection from destruction shows a little child in God’s hands and being held up and there’s fire and tornadoes and car wrecks and storms going on the ground below, but this little child is smiling looking up into the face of God you know.  And I wondered how he was going to illustrate the protection from disease and that page is so unique because there’s a little girl standing in a light beam coming from above that light beam comes down and covers her.  But outside the light beam there’s germs, big germs you know life size and it’s just great.

Sid:  You know let me read this as I’m looking at that picture right now, it’s verse 6a from Psalm 91, “God does not want you to be afraid of some bad disease, doctors are nice people that God uses to help sick people get well, but God is even more powerful than the doctor; He wants you to be healthy.”  And what a graphic to illustrate that; and then your other book and you may wonder why am I spending so much time on this?  Have you been reading about what’s going on with young children and the sexual perverts and what’s going on in the internet and terrorism and tornadoes and hurricanes.  And what a foundation to put in a young person, tell me a bit about the book that is for say 8 years old and older, it’s called “Psalm 91 for Youth.”

Peggy: This one we’ve had so much good feedback it’s the same format every chapter, every verse in Psalm 91 is a chapter in the book.  And it is just full of illustrations; now it’s not the big full color illustrations it’s illustrations that would deal more with teenagers and it’s full of illustrations.  It’s just full of these heartwarming stories of youth who have victoriously stood on God’s word and it’s just overflowing then like I say with those testimony ideas on how to apply this truth.  Some really well done illustrations and they illustrate the stories that are in the book.

Sid: This is almost unbelievable you were telling me about a person that was raised with Psalm 91 and they went into the military and the mother got a notice, “I’m sorry your son is dead.”  But the miracle that happened with that son it’s unbelievable we’ll pick up on that story on tomorrows broadcast.