Sid: My guest in the studio will stop any backslider in their tracks when they hear what happened to her. Pat you’re from Jacksonville, Florida. You had a pregnancy and you had surgery and blood pouring all over you died, and you left your body. What happened?

Pat: Well it felt like a large explosion in my head and then suddenly it was like I was being sucked like a giant vacuum cleaner into this dark dark tunnel. And then I stepped out of that tunnel and there I was in the darkest place that I had ever seen. Very frightening, off to the distance I could see God and you know Sid when you die you know that there’s a God then whether you believed it or not before. But what pierces your heart is that you are separated from Him and then the next thought comes for eternity.

Sid: But you were raised in Catholicism you knew about Jesus.

Pat: Knew about Him but you know as a child we use to go in and do the stations of the cross and see a bloody Jesus hanging on the cross. I would look at all of those things but I’d say “But that was 2000 years ago, what does that have to do with me?” And I never could figure that it had anything to do with me.

Sid: So He wasn’t relevant to you.

Pat: It wasn’t relative because I wasn’t born again.

Sid: So you went to this place the Bible calls outer darkness, it sounds terrifying.

Pat: Oh it was just terrible, awful. I don’t know whether people stay there throughout eternity or at the judgment seat of Jesus they go and then they’re cast into hell. I wouldn’t even want to be in that dark place where I was for even a moment it was…

Sid: So you came back into your body. I imagine that put the fear of God I you and you probably went back to church.

Pat: Well what happened when I came back into my body I was very disturbed for weeks and I could hardly talk. Then I began to think about what had happened to me, and to be honest it has an effect on your life you know that there’s a God and so when I went back to the Catholic church I went back in fear to be honest with you. I would go to confession on Saturday and then communion of Sunday but then on Monday I would fall again into sin. I had no control over my flesh. So I went to the Priest and I said “I’m not going to be coming back” I said “Because I don’t think that God would appreciate someone living for the devil all week and then coming to church on the weekend.” And I said “I just can’t reconcile that and I can’t be good.” Well he didn’t tell me who Jesus was, and I didn’t find out until I was about 38 years old.

Sid: Well in the mean time you were very active in politics; you actually ran for the State Legislature but you lost and it was so crushing you went into a real depression. You got into something that was just starting to get very popular at the time called the occult.

Pat: Yes, and you know those books were appearing on the supermarkets and in the pharmacies and all over the place; Jean Dixon and Edgar Casey and Author Ford and then Ruth Montgomery. So Ruth Montgomery wrote the book on Jean Dixon “A Gift of Prophecy.” And they were appearing on all of the major talk shows of that day and it made it seem just so interesting and exciting. So I would read a book and then I would try to experiment with what they were doing. Of course the devil is always there to help you to experiment in his ways. So I started doing automatic handwriting and what that is is you just let your mind go blank and then you take a pen and you just write actually the devil will move your hand.

Sid: Well that sounds something like how a Ouija board operates also.

Pat: Right, the same thing. And so one night I was in my bedroom and I was doing this automatic writing and the demon… I had always talked to one demon in that. And the demon said “We have come tonight to possess you, your children will suddenly fall over and don’t be concerned because we will take care of them and like a trance. And we’re going to come into you and possess you.”

Sid: Now when they spoke to you was it an audible voice.

Pat: No, this was automatic handwriting.

Sid: Oh, they did it through the writing, you read this

Pat: Yeah, right.

Sid: Oh my, that had to be the scariest thing.

Pat: Fear just came from my head to my head to my feet and I know that this was God you know. And I said “Oh no, you can’t possess me I won’t let you.” And they said “You will either let us come in now or we’ll come in after you go to sleep.” So I cried out “To the unknown God and I said “God I don’t know You but if you’ll protect me from this I’ll give You my life.” And by the way I did ask them if there was a devil and they said “Yes.” And I figured if there is a devil…

Sid: I wouldn’t ask these critters anything myself but you didn’t know.

Pat: I figured that if there was a devil there had to be a God see. So I cried out to the unknown God. And God…a peace came into the room and I could smell the sweet smell in my room that I’d never smelled before and I knew that it was the Spirit of God. So God began to speak into my mind and He told me to go to this prayer meeting where I had spoken to during the campaign. So I went there and while I was there they had a lending library of Christian books. So I would just pick up all of those books, a hand load of books and she said I could take them home. And the first book I read was on salvation. And I got down by my bed and gave my heart to Jesus. Then the next experience was I tried to get the Holy Spirit but couldn’t. Well because I had those blocking devils in me. And see the pattern that Jesus used was this Sid, when Mary Magdalene came to Jesus He didn’t say “Oh, believe in Me and be saved and everything’s going to be alright.” He cast 7 devils out of her and then she followed Him for the rest of her life. But see there are Christians all over this nation that need deliverance because of the things that they were involved in before they ever got saved. Like homosexuality, I have cast many homosexual spirits out of people and lesbians, and the occult and drugs, and…

Sid: And you know speaking of the occult it was big back in the mid 70’s but how much larger is it today. Let me ask you a question I don’t want to jump too far but I have to ask you this question. There’s a whole phenomena called Harry Potter, there’s all kinds of things about wizards, demons. And there on every television and they’re communicating with the dead. Is it dangerous for anyone to watch these things?

Pat: Absolutely.

Sid: The movie the Exorcist was big but this type of thing is all over the place. Why is it dangerous?

Pat: It’s aimed at 12 year old kids. And you know I had a young girl come through our ministry with her mother. She had run away from home and was Go-Go dancing in a nude bar. Her mother found out where she was and she got her and brought her over to our old church. So the girl didn’t want us to touch her, she would not let us lay our hands on her because she was loaded with devils. But at one point I put my hand on her mother and the mother fell to the floor and a devil came up and began to speak out of her voice like a man. And this woman was a member at one of the big churches Pentecostal churches in Jacksonville. And so I cast that devil out of her in Jesus Name, then I started questioning her. I said “Have you ever been in the occult, have you been to the fortune teller, have you been to the physic?” “No, no, no.” Do you know what it was Sid? Harry Potter books, she had bought…

Sid: Tell you what, we’re out of time we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast Mishpochah.