Sid: We want everyone everywhere to literally become a fool for the Messiah. Now what do I mean by that? I mean that there will be people that will say “Oh, you’re a fool you tell people about Jesus; you pray for the sick if you see anyone sick; you’re not like most people you’re a fool.” Well, let me tell you something you got a choice of being God’s fool or the devil’s fool. I choose God; who do you choose? I have on the telephone someone who’s probably more fanatic than I am for the Messiah; her name is Francis Hunter. I’m speaking to her at her office in Houston, Texas. And most believer’s know Charles and Francis Hunter as the ones that are willing to do anything God says. Francis you just celebrated your 88^th Birthday and your still going strong.

Francis: Yes.

Sid: I want to take you back many, many years right now for the audience that doesn’t know you. You were…would you call yourself just a church goer before you knew the Messiah or you weren’t even that?

Francis: I was a wild sinner.

Sid: That’s what I said “You can be a fanatic as a sinner or you can be fanatic for God there is no in between. So you were all the way as a fanatic sinner. What made the difference briefly?

Francis: Well, I’ll tell you one day well I had to have eye surgery. I had to have the lens of one eye removed because of an automobile accident. And when I was in the hospital as a wild sinner and I had gotten drunk before I got there because I didn’t know any other way to fill that God shape vacuum. And God wrote my name in blood in the pages of my Bible. I saw the finger of God be descend from heaven and it was dipped in the blood of Jesus. In my Bible He wrote “Francis Gardner”. That was my name then; now on the other page He wrote “I love you.” And if you’ve ever seen your name written in the blood of Jesus where God said “I love you.” You can never be the same again and that was the thing that started me on my search for God. And when I accepted Jesus I often say “He opened my mouth and I haven’t shut it from that day to this.” And I don’t intend to. (Laughing)

Sid: Now if Francis was fanatic before she was baptized in the Holy Spirit imagine what happened when she got married to Charles and both of them together were baptized in the Holy Spirit. What difference did it make in your life Francis?

Francis: Well, it just changed your life forever because God rewrote the Bible once I got the Baptism with the Holy Spirit. I saw things in there that I never saw before and I understood things in there that I never understood before and it gave us a power that we never had before the power to heal the sick. Which I think is one of the greatest blessings that God gives to every believer who accepts the baptism of the Holy Spirit. You have the power to lay hands upon the sick; the same power that Jesus had and see them recover.

Sid: Out of curiosity before you were baptized in the Holy Spirit did you pray for the sick?

Francis: Yes, but they didn’t get healed.  

Sid: And well, but I have to say this to you there are many Charismatic Christians that are baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues at least once when they got baptized in the Holy Spirit which is wrong by the way. You want to do what Paul says “I pray in tongues more than any man.

Francis: Yeah.

Sid: However, let’s be candid Francis most Charismatic, most Pentecostal churches you don’t see that many miracles there; so what’s the problem?

Francis: It’s because they don’t use the power of God that they had. They don’t know how and that’s why we wrote the book “How to Heal the Sick.” So that everybody would know that they can heal the sick. As a matter of fact we’re having healing schools all over the United States now with our DVD and video tapes. And just Monday night and Healing Class at Lakewood Church we had over 100 healings by the people that we had already taught 2 lessons to so far.

Sid: Now are you seeing more people healed today than say a year ago or 20 years ago?

Francis: Definitely, definitely, definitely.

Sid: So we’re getting closer to that prophecy that I read about on yesterday’s broadcast by Tommy Hicks.

Francis: Yes.  

Sid: Now let’s go to your book a little bit. Chapter 3 very intriguing chapter. You quote Mark Chapter 16 verse 17 and 18 in which Messiah said “Those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and they shall pray for a half hour, they shall work up tremendous emotions; they shall roll on the floor, they shall kick and they shall holler and they shall scream and they shall shake. No, that’s not what it says; what does it really say?

Francis: It very simply says “Those who believe shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. They shall recover. But you see one of the things that I feel is so important you have to believer first of all that God want’s you well. Number 2 you’ve got to believe when you stretch forth your hand to lay it on the sick that’s the hand of Jesus being extended on the people today. Because if Jesus lives inside of You and he better live inside of you then those are the only hands that Jesus has on the earth today are yours and mine.

Sid: You know what I think Francis; we drum up all of this religious tradition whether it’s non-charismatic or whether it’s the charismatic and we think that we need all of these things. But it’s really if there is one trait that that I think of when I think of Charles and Francis Hunter; you know what I think of? Childlike.

Francis: Yes.

Sid: Not complex.

Francis:   No.

Sid: Not something that only the very elect; the very top echelon can walk into; you bring it down to our level.

Francis: Amen.

Sid: And you know something when the Messiah spoke He spoke to people that were fisherman; people that they didn’t have great…I mean Paul the Apostle he had some pretty good training but he was the exception.

Francis: Amen, well and you see neither Charles or I ever went to Bible School or Bible College or anything like that. We just read the Bible over and over again discovering how Jesus did it. And then we thought we’ll try the same things that Jesus did and we discovered that it works. And so then we discovered if it works for us it works for other people as well.

Sid: Well, how does someone handle this; they’ve been a believer for many years; they’ve seen the Spirit of God move; they’ve felt the presence; they’ve slain in the Spirit; they’ve prayed for lots of people but very few are healed. Now there’s such negativity in a person like this will this book have enough of an anointing to bust through that?

Francis: I think that it will totally break through that wall that people have that think that they can’t do it. That’s why I set up these healing schools that we’re having it’s absolutely incredible. People sitting there…well week before last we had a lady healed of multiple sclerosis. And she came back the next week and she said that “She had not walked in 13 years without 2 canes” and she said “I can run all over the place.” So our daughter said to her “Who laid hands on you? She said “Who prayed for you?” She said “I have no idea. You see it was just a believer; it wasn’t Charles and Francis; it wasn’t our daughter Joan it was just a believer that laid hands on her after she had read the book “How to Heal the Sick” and attended a healing seminar. But you see if you’ve got the baptism of the Holy Ghost you’ve got the power that I’ve got and Sid Roth has got. The only thing is you have to use that power; you have to be willing to believe that that Holy Ghost power is resident within you. Well just like they brought a lady into my office last week who had this massive goiter on the front of her neck.

Sid: Hmm, hm.

Francis:   And she didn’t speak a word of English and my Spanish is very poor so we couldn’t communicate very well except I could see what her problem was. And all I did was just laid hands on that huge goiter and I said “In Jesus Name, and there was no goiter left.” That woman absolutely had a Pentecostal Sid in Spanish (Laughing) right there in my office.

Sid: You know you hear stories about this in foreign countries.

Francis: But it happens here; as a matter of fact some people from Korea brought their little girl in this morning who was cross eyed and Charles just laid hands on her and the child eyes are perfectly straight.

Sid: Tell me because you know I read this in the book but I’ve got to hear this from your own mouth. Tell me about the 38 people that were healed of deafness in Colorado.

Francis: (Laughing) That was one of the most unusual nights that I have ever seen in my entire life. Because every once and awhile God gives you something that is really unusual. Let me tell you also before I tell you this can I tell you something that just fascinates me.

Sid: As long as we have time; go for it.

Francis: God does; you can’t put God in a box you’ve got to let God do it his way. We were down in…

Sid: I have to interrupt you; that’s why the book is so important. She shows you all of the different ways that God operates and one of those the Holy Spirit’s going to jump out at you but when you understand this your understanding the ways of God. But go ahead.

Francis: Okay, but here we are in Panama and we just ministered healing and then we had the healing teams go out and now these are just ordinary people just you know like the book said washer woman, window washers you know and all of that kinds of stuff. And all of these people just went through this tremendous crowd and then the people came up on the stage to tell what they were healed of. And so the first one said “I was blind in one eye; I was totally healed because I see perfectly now. Well I thought that was wonderful. But then the second person came up and I said “What was your problem?” They said I was blind in one eye but now I see. Well, I thought well that was absolutely wonderful. The third person came up and said the exactly the same thing. I did not realize that there were so many people that were blind in one eye. But you know what we had over 500 people that night; healed of blindness in one eye. We had one man that was blind in two eyes; and he was totally healed. But it was fascinating.

Sid: Say it again though, say that it’s not just you it’s anyone that has God within them that has Jesus within them.

Francis: You see we weren’t laying hands on them it was the people in Panama who had been trained to do just the same thing that we do. They did the same thing that’s in the book “How to Heal the Sick.” And all of those deaf eyes were open.

Sid: Okay, consider yourself on notice; God wants to use you. Are you going to say “Yes” or are you going to say “No.”

 

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be red hot for the Messiah. But you know something there has been within traditional Judaism so much tradition that that has worked in that it’s hard to see God. It’s hard to have an experience with God; it’s hard to even see the Messiah within traditional Judaism. But that same leaven has creeped into traditional Christianity. The thing that’s started by Jews by the one who went… He died it said on the cross “The King of the Jews.” The thing that you had to actually convert to Judaism to even be a follower of Messiah has become opposite of Judaism today. Why did this happen? But even more important than that, why is God restoring what I believe is the same vitality and vibrancy and miraculous where each person was a worker. The first believer’s in the Messiah did not have a written New Testament. The first believer’s in the Messiah did not have what we call churches. The first believer’s in the Messiah did not have Bible Schools. The first believer’s in the Messiah did not have great articulate speakers. The first believer’s in the Messiah had an encounter with Jesus; the least believer would lay hands on the sick and the sick would recover. They each had a job to do and it was vibrant; it was as a matter of fact I almost hate to call it Christianity because when we use the word Christianity we think in the stereotype of what it’s evolved to today. I really believe that Christianity is a misnomer. It should be New Covenant Judaism where the Messiah broke down the middle wall of separation between two people groups. The only two that existed Jew and Gentile and made them something brand new One New Man. But there is reasons why these things happened and there’s reasons why you as a Gentile Christian for the first time perhaps in your life are beginning to say “I want to know my roots; I want to know what that first Church was like; I want to get as close to the Messiah as I can; I want to fulfill my destiny. And God is drawing Gentile Christian’s by His Spirit to have a restoration of what that first church was like. Part of that restoration is to understand that what the culture was like at the time. Now on yesterday’s broadcast and I have and I’m speaking to him from his home in Tiberias, Israel. I have today my friend Dr. Bob Fischer. We’re talking about his new DVD that he just came out with that he called “The Jewish Origins of Christianity.” It’s actually a college level course which you can find out how you can get credits for it if you want it. But most people aren’t going to want to do it for a college level credits they’re going to want to do it because they want to understand Jesus; they want to understand what was going on in the New Covenant. They want the New Covenant to have that further dimension of understanding the culture because it changes a lot of the thinking in the New Covenant when you understand the Jewish culture which Jesus took for granted everyone understood it when He was writing His various letters. But today it’s been so denuded from the Church. And one of the most fascinating things Bob as I’ve taken your course is the 3 major people groups within Jews at the time Jesus came. Two we know the Pharisees and Sadducees. And as a matter of review tell me a little bit about those 2 groups that most Christians have heard of.

Bob:   Yes Sid, well the Sadducee were the people from the aristocratic class of Jewish society at the time. They were they rejected all scripture apart from the Torah and they maintained this elaborate sacrificial system in the temple. They made up most of the Sanhedrin and they were basically apart from the people and they had a theology that was very narrow in its origin. They didn’t believe in bodily resurrection or even an afterlife. And so when the temple went away so closely tied to temple when the temple was destroyed in ’70 they just basically vanished and they didn’t leave a legacy.

Sid: Well what did the Pharisees believe in?

Bob: Pharisees had a different view; they did believe in bodily resurrection and they did believe ultimately that there would be a Messiah. But a totally different Messiah than we understand having learned from the Essenes. They believed the Pharisees believed in a Messiah that would come at the end of days to right all of the world’s problems. He would be a king and a prophet and a great military leader. But they emphasized that he would by no means be Divine, he would not be in anyway a god. They were offended by the very notion of that. So they were quite different. So they evolved; the important thing to understand is that the Pharisees became what today is Rabbinical Judaism. But this third group the Essenes it’s important for us to point to them because they were the precursors of all subsequent Christianity.

Sid: And yet we don’t hear much about them. Where did you get most of your understanding for the Essenes for the course you did?

Bob: Well I did a lot of research Sid. I found a great deal of information in early Roman Catholic writings interestingly enough where the church fathers were speaking out against the Nazarene Jewish Believers by reference to the Essenes they’re selves.

Sid: So when we read about Nazarenes that was the Essenes that believed in Jesus?

Bob: The Nazarenes were to start out with were around before Jesus showed up. They were the principal subgroup of the Essenes. And when Yeshua came along and appeared they were the ones who embraced Him in droves. And in one day you know as we appointed out there were 3000 that came into the faith. And they became known as the Nazarenes; they’re referred to in the Book of Acts as the Nazarenes. They’re also referred to as the Way. So you don’t have any references directly to the Essenes probably because Yeshua was fighting against the teachings of the Sadducees and the Pharisees but He was very much in consonance with the teaching of the Essenes, who He and Paul and others referred to as the Way and the Nazarenes.

Sid: Okay, what was their lifestyle like as Believers?

Bob: Well there were 2 groups if we’re talking about the Essenes we’re talking about the group at Qumran which was considerably smaller they were celibate Monks. But the main body of the Essenes were a variety of communities that were not celibate. But they functioned in the same belief system of Qumran and they were all over the Galilee and they were all over Judea and Samaria and all over Syria, what today is modern day Syria.   There was something like you know by the estimate that I tend to adhere to that there was something like 400,000 of these people at one point in time. But I’ve heard estimates that there was as many as a million who had ultimate by the end of the first century converted to the understanding that Yeshua was the Messiah.

Sid: Now how did something that started so Jewish shift gears and become what is known today as the opposite of Judaism? How was what is called Judaism how was it hijacked by the Pharisees rather than the Essenes who were the forefathers of Christianity? I mean how did all of this happen?

Bob: Well the Essenes basically disappeared; I mean they didn’t disappear they became the Nazarenes that ultimately became the beginnings of Messianic Judaism if you will. But the important thing here is that Paul and others you know Peter went out particularly Paul went out. And in 4 monumentally successful journeys to the Gentile world the Gentile Christian Church was created. And the Gentile Christian Church is a wonderful institution but at the time of its origination it combined many of the paganistic understandings of the local culture. So what we ended up with were a variety of blends of pure Torah understanding and pure understanding of who Yeshua was blended with a variety of these paganistic understandings.

Sid: Now why did… I know we can only speculate, but within Judaism it’s so important to separate the clean from the unclean as you read the Old Covenant.   How come they merged the two within early Christianity?

Bob: Well there was a big argument between Paul and the group on Mt. Zion over this very issue. You know the argument was “What did Gentiles have to do to become part of this movement?” And they finally came to grips with it and the council of Jerusalem met in ’49 and while Peter and others held on and said “Look, these people have to be circumcised; they have to be fully Torah compliant.” Paul spoke very strongly against this notion he said “Let’s keep it limited.” So in the results in the Council of Jerusalem there was simply 4 things that came out. Four very fundamental things: 1) They weren’t supposed to drink or they weren’t supposed to eat blood. 2) They were to refrain from sexual immorality and so forth. You know there were 4 fundamental things that really were simplistic for them. So the point I’m getting to is that they didn’t have to keep Biblical Kosher that didn’t apply to them. They didn’t have to be circumcised; they didn’t have to keep Torah it wasn’t required. They had to do 4 rather simple things.

Sid: But how did they make the shift… not only did they add paganism but they denuded the Church of any of its Jewish roots. Why did they do that?

Bob: Probably because the architect of this thing was a man named “Constantine the Ist.” Who in 313 AD declared that Christianity would be the state religion. And …

Sid: I’m sorry Bob we’re out of time we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to walk in the anointing that God has destined just for you. That’s why I have Judy Jacobs and we’re releasing her new book “You Are Anointed for This” because Judy has paid the price and she walks in an anointing similar to what you read about in the book of Acts as you’ve heard this week. But you have a unique anointing and she is determined for you to understand how the anointing operates and understand what your unique anointing is for the end times and how to develop that anointing. She teaches and then she has a special prayer for you at the end of each chapter and it’s a how to step by step to walk into your destiny. Now Judy, there are people that listen to your music over and over and over and over again. Tell me about the woman the woman that was working the night shift.

Judy: Well, let me just say this, the devil is constantly lying to us Sid telling us that we’re all alone that this thing is not real. He tells you that God’s word is not true but one thing we need to understand is that when the devil speaks he speaks his native language which is a lie. Jesus said “I will never leave you or forsake you. I will go with you always even to the end of the world.” And so it comes down to you know that this young girl was working at a restaurant, a little small restaurant, and she was doing the night shift, but she loves my CD “There’s No God Like Jehovah.” And so every time that she was assigned the night shift she would always take my CD “There’s No God Like Jehovah” and that was her favorite song out of all the songs on the CD that was her favorite. So she’d put it on in the back and she put it on repeat so the whole time that she’s working the night shift like you know 3 or 4 hours 5 hours she’s got this song playing continuously. It got to be pretty late when it was closing time and a man walks into the little ice cream restaurant and he says to her “Are you here by yourself?” And she very shyly says “Well, no” sensing something is up she says “No someone’s in the back.” And he said “No, there’s not I’ve been watching this store for the last two hours nobody has come in and nobody has gone out. I know that you’re here by yourself.” And he says to her Sid “I’m going to do to you what I want to do to you.” He takes her by the arm and he drags her to the back; now you got to know that that you’re not alone, you got to know that God is going to do something, send something; something’s going to happen in the spirit realm. So this is a Holy Spirit filled young lady so the guy throws her down on the floor and he’s about to do something to her all of a sudden she said it sounded like the music came up stronger and it was right at that very point where I say in the song “There’s no God like Jehovah; there’s no God like Jehovah.” And all of a sudden the man rises up and say “What is that I hear?” And she said “That is the Holy Spirit filled song because I am a Holy Ghost filled young woman.” He said “Oh, I’ve got to get out of here I don’t mess with Holy Ghost” he said I’ve got to get out of here” and so he gets up and runs out.” And you’ve got to know that the anointing of God came into that room; that music went up to another degree and something happened that was just not corresponding with him and his rage and the Holy Ghost got a hold of him and he had to get out. And I’m telling you you are never alone with the Holy Spirit beside you and the anointing of God in you he said “I will never leave you; I will never forsake you.” I love the Amplified “I will never, never, never, never will I leave you” He says. And we have to be assured that when the devil tells us that he is lying. We have to fill our house with music that’s going to…

Sid: Speaking of filling our house with music Judy, I have prophetic friends that say so many young people are getting into the type of music there getting into pornography, new age, witchcraft. I mean in droves and believers are going to have to pray for deliverance. And as a matter of fact I believe that there is such an anointing on your song “My Deliver” that some people listening right now will get free.

Judy: “My Deliver” excerpt.  

Sid: We are so close to the return of the Messiah. How do I know this? He told me in a dream. Three times He said “I’m coming back soon, I’m coming back soon, I’m coming back soon.”