Sid: My guest Leif Hetland is from Norway. He lives in the United States in Florence, Alabama. He had what he described as a Baptism of Love that took him out of the realm of legalistic religious Christianity into the realm, as he puts it, son-ship with God.  It took him out of the realm of striving into the realm of peace and grace and rest.  That took him out of the realm that so many of you find yourself in. You are a Christian, but you’re involved in a form of escapism.  And you have your escapism in sports, or food, or work or pornography, or TV.  Leif Hetland is it possible to have this escapism in religion?

Leif: Oh definitely and it is not just that all the statistics show it but also my experience as I travel around the country. Especially with men; I see many of them are struggling with a pimp in their mind and they can’t get rid of it because pain always seeks pleasure.  And you will not get it in religion and you will not get it unless it’s God’s power and you can continue to try and achieve more; go to more church services; read more pray more but you will continue to have that pain, and if you continue to have that pain seeks pleasure.  And you will find that some people are eating and some or drinking and go on internet and then they look at other things and then they feel bad and then they go to the author again and then they continue that some old spiral without being able to being able to be set free.

Sid: So someone’s saying “He’s speaking to me okay, I know this what is going to stop it?”

Leif: First of all I think that we need to confess that there is an orphan spirit that is in each one of us that we’re struggling with.  And that is that chair number two.

Sid: Now for those that unfortunately that were not listening on Friday you must explain the 3 chairs.

Leif:  Yes, first of all as a foundation what I did was if you just imagine 3 chairs that is in front of you.  Every one of us are living our lift out of one of these 3 chairs. There’s kind of a define in different types of people that are living in the world that is in your family or in your neighborhood or in the nations.  Chair number 1 is a chair of commitment and that is a commitment to a relationship.  Chair number 2 is a chair of compromise; that means that you are a compromiser; I call it a two timers.  I love Jesus; I go to church but then the rest of the week kind of like living like the rest of the world.  Chair number 3 is conflict; they’re living a life of conflict, their looking for love; they’re looking for security; they’re looking for all of the things that chair number 1 has to offer but they’re going after the counterfeit affection that the enemy has to offer.  In chair number 1 the person is saved, and chair number 2 the person is saved, but in chair number 3 they are lost.  The church in Church in Ephesus as an example was started in chair number 1 as revival broke loose and the supernatural was natural.  And they changed the city and turned it upside down for Jesus.  But then you read about in Revelation 2 about the same church but they have left the first love and then they became a chair number 2 church a compromising church.  They were still doing the right things but they had left the first love; but think about chair number 1 where you stood before you fell. Chair number 1 you will see that supernatural is what is natural.  And what I’ve seen in the life of Jesus it was not just for the 12 or the Apostle; you saw it for the 70 and eventually in Mark 16 it was for whoever believes.

Sid: Well, the First Church started in chair number 1, but over time the same thing that happened to my Jewish people when Jesus said “You’re tradition has made void the Word of God.”  It’s been going on and now it’s 2000 years of Christianity and so nothing new under the sun.

Leif:  No and you will find this pattern in every aspect of society, you can look at Harvard; you can look at Princeton and some of the greatest ivy league schools in America was started in chair number 1 but today they are in chair number 3 in conflict not believing at all.  You can see with the Israelites Joshua he said “As for me and my house we will serve the Lord” chair number 1.  The elders of the next generation they were talking about what God was doing they didn’t have a chair number 1 experience themselves so the result was that the next generation that followed the compromisers didn’t believe at all.  And we have often said it in America right now that we have the generation X and Y is considered an unreached people group and mainly because that we’ve had parents that was compromisers and you see mommy and daddy said “We love you Jesus, He’s my provider; He’s my healer,” but they don’t see the fruits and the results.  Because when they are sick they don’t trust Jesus that He is the one that He is the healer and that He is Jehovah Rapha that if they need provision they trust in Visa and Master Card.  I’m not preaching against that but it’s just what they have observed the chiller.  And the result of that is that there’s a whole generation that they’re living in conflict.  The good news of this is that whole verse that “They have been drinking out of the polluted waters of the enemy.  Now they have been so sick of that they have been coming to chair number 1 and they get to drink of the pure…

Sid: But what about what about those in chair number 2 that run to meetings all over the world really where there’s an outpouring of God’s Spirit and they’re really genuinely touched by God, as you explained last week when I interviewed you, that the minute they walk out they kind of spring a leak.  Why is that?

Leif:  Again there is a saying that if you do not deal with those love deficits in your life and I also call the orphan spirit.  Every one of us we are living our life we’re looking for a home or we have a home.  When I am saying that it is I’m not talking about a 10,000 square ft. house or a trailer park.  I am talking a place of security chair number 1.  They are secure; a place of security.  That’s what Adam and Eve had before the fall came in; a place of love; a place of receive love and give love where you’re hearing the Father God’s speaking “You my beloved Son; you my beloved daughter whom I love and whom I am well pleased.”  You are receiving love and you are giving love where you are valuable and you look in that mirror and you are rejoicing that you are fearfully and wonderfully made.  An affirmation is coming both from Heaven and people around you and you are living with a purpose and destiny among 6.2 billion people even if you are sweeping the floor at the Wal-Mart Store you know that I am created to do that in the best way and I’m representing the Kingdom of God right here in what I am doing right here.  If that is in the media or the marketplace; but if they have those things settled in their life the most of the people going to these meetings they’re going after.  They have counterfeit affection is what I call it; meaning that possession is the counterfeit affection.  If you are not secure, possession is the counterfeit affection.  If you are not as a saying experiencing the love passion; and that can be passion for religion, passion for experience, passion for sex, passion for money, passion for all kinds of things.  And there is nothing wrong with passion as long as it is not the love deficit, and if you do not understand your value position.  Well, if I just get married or I just become deacon; and a lot of churches is possessed by deacon possessed people that are looking for position.

Sid: Hm.

Leif:  Because of the love deficits in their life so that they can be in control.  And if you don’t understand your purpose and destiny and then you can see power is the counterfeit affection.  That means “I’m going to be in control, I’m not going to be hurt any longer.”  And you put up all these different walls.

Sid: Now what I’ve seen in America and I’ve never seen this before Leif; is that there are more wonderful Christians, and of course they’re in chair number 2 as you describe it.  And don’t seem to be bothered by it because they’re finding church irrelevant.

Leif:  Yeah, and I do believe that that is very accurate and I understand why; I can be honest with you that a lot of the churches both that I have visited even pastored I can understand why people wouldn’t come there.  Because the Jesus of the Bible does not show up and often happened over a period of time and me and Randy Clark talked about it this past week.  We called it the reversed circle, you may be coming there with an expectation of healing to happen or for having a God encounter to happen.  The next time you come you have less expectation or less faith and it just continued to go down until eventually it becomes just another place where you go and you have some good songs and you have a good message.  But I could be honest with you the world around there has other things to offer that has more attractive and makes me feel better then coming there.  And you have the opposite where you started hearing what you have that is wrong in your life but nobody gives you the medicine and the cure and the power to make it right.  So here you hear that you you’re a sinner and you should pray more or you should do this more.  And then you try harder and it doesn’t work and then you suddenly give up and you start being under condemnation or you’re sitting there and you’re kind a being bored to death because of the saying “There is no power.”