Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be a worker, we want everyone everywhere you have got such unique DNA there is no one that has ever been created just like you, and you have a purpose, you have a destiny. And I have found something and I am going to shout it from the roof tops it’s a new book by James Rutz it called “Mega Shift” because there is a MEGA SHIFT going on in the Body of Messiah. Part of this mega shift I’ve been talking about for 20 years and that is the law of evangelism going to the Jew first which opens up a supernatural door of evangelism to Gentiles greater than if you’d gone to the Gentile first. And celebrating the Biblical festivals because they’re not just Biblical festivals they’re not just Jewish festivals, they are God’s feasts. And in the Hebrew the word feasts means set appointments, they are appointments with God. But because many people have taken these Biblical feasts and have become legalistic or said they had something to do with your salvation people have thrown out the baby with the dirty bath water. But it’s time to take these God appointments and Tim and Katie what I see is this house church movement and the institutional church movement are not working opposite each other it’s all part of the body of Messiah. And I can see all of us coming together for a feast of Tabernacles celebration and we won’t have a football game going on during that day because we’ll rent the entire football stadium and will all come together worship God on a God festival He will show up and Jewish people that don’t know the Messiah will say “What is this, black and white, and male and female, and Jew and Gentile and African American and Hispanic, and Asian and Native American, and what is going on? And they’re dancing together and they love each other and people are getting healed and then if you’ll allow me I’d like to put this on my television show It’s Supernatural. And I’ve got Time and Katie Mather in the office right now, they’re spokesman for the Mega-shift Ministry. Can you see that? Can you see stadiums filled with God’s children and God being so pleased that He shows up.
Tim: I think that the Lord’s going to give us back this culture, I think that He’s going to give us back this culture and the impact isn’t for the culture or for the politics it’s for the Kingdom of God. And as we come together and set aside all those differences we have to set aside especially those that may be listening who are part of the people who have left structural institutional church.
Sid: Are there many like this around the United States.
Tim: The researchers Barna Research says right now it’s a little difficult to grasp, but between 20 and 30 million born again, Bible believing Christian people have left the institutional church and are not going back.
Sid: And why have most of them left, do you know I’m sure it’s diverse reasons but what would you say?
Tim: I would say that many are angry, they’re angry at being told to mobilize what we’ve been talking about, we’ve been told to mobilize and then not being allowed to mobilize not being allowed to do anything. And there’s a lot of spiritual abuse that happens in that process of restraining people while saying go out and do.
Katie: I think a lot are just hungry for more, they’ve been… a lot of them have been in the church for a long time, they’ve done everything that there is to do within the structure, but they know that there is so much more that the Lord wants to do within them that they’re capable of. Because of the mobility of our society and even being able to go around the world they know that that they can do so much more for Christ.
Sid: Katie from your eyes, I know every meeting in a house church is different. Could you paint me a picture of what might happen at one meeting in your house congregation? First of all how many people might you have there?
Katie: Well, it could be anywhere from 2 or 3, the very smallest and the Lord shows up even among 2 or 3. We suggest that don’t go any higher than 12 or 15 because then you really lose the intimacy of the small group where people are able to share with one another sharing their lives and what the Lord’s doing in their lives. Because when it gets larger than 15 it’s time to divide, where in the institution they see that division is a bad thing. Within the home church community division is a good thing that means growth, that means now one fellowship can become 2 or 3 and even grow even more.
Sid: But what goes on in the meeting itself?
Katie: In the meeting itself we see a lot of things happen, people come with whatever they have to bring. And sometimes it’s a revelation they’ve received personally from the Lord. Sometimes it’s a scripture that’s really been burning in their heart that they want to share that the Lord’s been speaking to them. Some have come with songs that they have written and they share them and others are moved. Some come with a problem and share it and others are able to pray over them. One home meeting a fellow stood up and said “I feel that there are several people here who are caring such brokenness in their spirit that it’s time now to really give that to the Lord so why don’t you just let us just pray for you.” And actually not just 1 or 2 stepped up but 4 stepped forward and said “Yeah, that’s me.” And we had opportunity to pray with them for deep healing and some long carried wounds in their life. One of those people even had a restoration in their relationship with their father and to see that kind of change and transformation really bring about something supernatural in people’s lives is a powerful thing to happen in a small group.
Sid: Tim a lot of people that are believers that have not dropped out of the system like the big churches because they can hide. Can you hide in a home church?
Tim: It’s a little difficult to hide when you’re sitting across the room from someone and they look and say “Hey what’s going on with you?” and begin conversation it’s a little difficult to hide. And so the anonymity that we like in the big group is basically lost in the living room.
Sid: Well, one of the things I said to both of you is I want you, I didn’t say this I should have, I want your number one as my guest to have fun and number two I want you to yield to the Spirit of God not to me. And the only restriction is time because that we don’t have control over. However, is that what you’d tried to do at your house meeting what I’m trying to do right now on the air?
Tim: Yeah, absolutely finding out who people are, where they are and letting them bring a piece to this puzzle that we find Jesus in them and they begin to minister to that one to another and they become… there is a rich koinonia and that’s developed. And I as a recovering pastor
Sid: (Laughing)
Tim: I have gained rich insight and my life is much richer having these people talk to me and minister to me and care for me in the midst of it instead of me having to be the all-knowing, all seeing-eye.
Sid: So Tim what can someone do in your house church that they could not do in their traditional church be it charismatic, evangelical, what?
Tim: Imagine on a standard whatever kind of church it is a Sunday morning and the pastors saying something whatever in his message and it hits you. And it doesn’t have to hit you wrong but it hits you and you have some sort of revelation on it and what if you just stood up and said “Wait a minute I have something to say about that I’ve got an idea about that.” Just imagine how that would work in your Sunday morning service. I think you would find out what the term usher means as they usher you out of the room. (Laughing)
Sid: (Laughing) Tell me some of the other differences, for instance let’s look at it this way a pastor recognizes this problem in a traditional style church and they start house groups and these are small and so it seems to me that will accomplish the same thing and yet you say no.
Tim: The issue is back to a matter of control, and I had to learn this as a recovering pastor I had to learn how to let people do what they wanted to do, let people share out of their heart and not always tell them the right answer. Come in and be the strong arm and take control of the gathering.
Sid: But aren’t you afraid of wild fire?
Tim: Absolutely I think a little wild fire once in a while cleans the forest out. There’s all sorts of dangers that people can focus on.
Sid: You know what I like to say?
Tim: What?
Sid: I like to say in most churches there’s no fire; oh God give me some.
Katie: Well, Tim’s always said “I’d rather be a fireman than an undertaker so.”
Tim: I’d rather be in a fire, yeah because the issue is it would be…it would be good to have a little fun have a little tension or something.
Sid: So what is your preparation for your meeting?
Tim: My preparation is life, the issue is that we don’t even use the term meeting anymore we use…
Sid: What do you use?
Tim: We just “You want to come over to our house we just invite friends.
Katie: We’re getting together.
Tim: Come on over we’re going to eat because as you start putting these tags on it then people have expectation, people have their paradigms of what it’s going to be what it needs to be and if you say this is a meeting, if you line up chairs the little things that don’t seem important. If you line up chairs; I have one friend who when he first got into the house church he built himself a pulpit that he had put up in his living room and every time they met and he spoke to them because it’s in our DNA the institution. And so we just decide whatever the institution, however the institution would do it let’s do it differently. And making room, getting out of the way, getting our agenda out of the way and letting the Holy Spirit show up and let Him do what He wants to do. Sometimes the meeting will be about one person. In the institution generally the meeting was about me and what I had to say as a pastor.
Sid: Our time is slipping away.
