Sid:   I got reacquainted with someone I knew a number of years ago Renny McLean. Just at the right time I believe it was a moment that God had ordained because I have in my hands his new book “Eternity Invading Time.”  And if you really want to understand from Heaven’s perspective how to operate in Bible faith not rules and regulations but an understanding of this realm that God is in called eternity. Renny you’ve had heavenly visitations and I have to believe a lot of this is written in your book from a heavenly viewpoint.

Renny: Oh oh, totally totally is I mean you know when you have an encounter with the Lord your whole view of God changes you know.  Anybody who’s had an encounter with God I can tell you you’re not judgmental.  Because when you had an encounter with the Lord what you seen in His eyes is compassion.  I mean He looks at you and knows everything about you and he’s not condemning you.

Sid: You know I’ve shared some personal things with Renny and actually I did it on the air this week but they’re personal prayers that I pray almost if not every single day of my life. And one is to walk in the compassion of the Messiah; I believe as you believe Renny before the Messiah returns there will be men and woman raised up that will walk in that type of compassion.

Renny: Oh, I believe that because the manifestation to the power of God’s glory is really and truly revealed through the love of God.  And you know when it comes to the place where He’s loved becomes us you know my goodness nothing is impossible we’re walking in the realm with no limits.

Sid: Now when you say “Nothing is impossible” it’s one thing to someone for someone to parrot that expression but it’s another when what I see on what goes on in your various meetings even at a young age you saw dead people come to life. You’ve seen a number of dead people come to life, but tell me just kind of whet the appetite of some creative miracles.  For instance, I read here in a meeting you had in Dallas there was a lady in a wheelchair who had a 5 inch pin in her leg.

Renny:  Yes.

Sid: And she had a great miracle; tell me about that.

Renny:  Oh, what happened was we had been in the meetings for 3 nights while we were in 3 nights of meetings I clearly remember that was the night where wheelchairs were emptied.  You know people were walking and deaf people were hearing; blind people and cancer were being healed.  So faith was already high and you know when it’s already high I mean people can believe anything. And it was the night where people could literally believe anything; I just looked at this dear sister who had been coming to the meeting every night and she had a foot brace on and I said “Take it off.”  And you know she obeyed me; she obeyed the Word of the Lord and she took it off and I clearly remember when she took it off she walked.  We didn’t realize though the magnitude of the miracle we were just attracted because she could walk again and she was totally healed.  Well the following week when she went to the doctor and came back to the church testify she said “Well I had one of the most interesting testimonies you’ve ever heard.”  And she said “The doctors cannot find the pin that was in my leg;” it was 5 inches of tin or steel, or whatever they call it.  When she went into the hospital and they had it examined all they saw was five inches of brand new bone.

Sid:  And that should not be so strange when I read the Bible especially in light of the book that you’ve just written “Eternity Invading Time.” As you state in your book “Eternity God’s realm is drawing closer to our realm called time.”

Renny: Yes.

Sid: I have to ask you a question through Renny “How do you personally view God, How should we view God?”

Renny:  Okay I’ll tell you I love that question you asked me because this is where I think the church has to redefine what it talks about.  Number 1 there’s a word I want to introduce to our believers and the it’s the word to conceptualize and it means nothing more than to teach us something in its original form.  Now if we see God in natural terms God is out of context; if you see God in the supernatural than God is in context. The problem is we’re trying to make somebody supernatural; we’re trying to make Him natural and He’s not natural.  And unfortunately in the west we really have done that down to a science. Isn’t it funny God probably saying “Don’t you find it funny the very definition of the word God means a supernatural being we want supernatural ability and He demands to be worshiped.”

Sid:  And you know what in our Spirit filled charismatic churches…

Renny:  Oh my goodness.

Sid: We’re not seeing the supernatural we’re hearing the talk about it.

Renny:  Yes.

Sid:  But we’re not seeing the goods and people they go there long enough they learn literally unintentionally we’ve been discipled in unbelief.

Renny:  Oh, you are preaching, you are preaching to the choir because I’m telling you Brother Sid I believe today I honestly believe today that when most of us preachers preach from the pulpit we honestly are ministering to educated unbelief.  Because it’s unfortunate to say this but it the naked truth. If the truth be told this is what we’re dealing with; we have educated the unbelief of the believer to the degree that the unbelief of the unbeliever is now stronger than the actual faith in God.  And so we have relegated God to a natural form to something that He isn’t; so God really and truly is out of context.  That’s why it takes a revelation for you to operate in the miraculous; you can’t operate in the miraculous with common sense.  See I’ve often said this Bother Sid see unbelief is the product of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; your unbelief reveals what tree you’re eating from because when you’re eating from the tree of life you’ve got nothing but faith; nothing but faith.  And you got more sense to believe God than you have to doubt God.  And you see I often say this “When reason is absent faith is present; when reason is absent God is now.”  And even as I say now right now when reason, oh my God I just feel His… when I say reason is absent faith is present that means the miraculous is possible here and now.  Everybody listening to this broadcast or this radio interview; everybody right now I’m saying to you right now “All things are possible to you right now as you stop trying to reason how God’s going to do a thing if you just let Him do it.”  Oh my goodness gracious me you’ll find He’ll do it in more ways than one.  I’m telling you the miraculous power of God is present right about now; because when you’re heads out of the way God will start to move.  The most brilliant mind of our time was a man call Einstein. It was said that he used 12% of his brain 12%.  And they say that we today use 8%, don’t you find it strange brother Sid that all of modern discovery that we know of today; the greatest inventions that have come about in the last 100 years.  And don’t you find it strange that it’s come about with 8% knowledge.  Can you imagine if we have 8% use of our minds today can you then imagine what Adam had before he sinned?  We are practically retarded in comparison to what Adam was; so today Adam’s legacy to us today is unbelief, fear and doubt.  But Jesus Christ Yeshua died on the cross and really and truly opened back that realm to us; the realm where there is no time.

Sid: You know one of the hottest things in secular radio are talk shows. Can you imagine if a man or a woman of God moves in this realm proclaiming the true gospel no mixture but the true gospel it’ll be the hottest talk show in America; in the world.

Renny:  Oh, I believe it, I believe it but you see Sid it’s what you said to me earlier we have a seeker friendly church.  And what’s happened today is this if you look on television today and you listen to a lot of radio broadcast right now do you not notice how the world wants the supernatural that’s why the psychic phenomena in America is so big.  The reason why it’s so big is because the church rejected the ministry of the prophet and that’s why the counterfeit took off so big and made a huge killing off of it.  So if the false prophet can generate that kind of income and keep his kingdom going my goodness what would the ministry of the prophet do in the church today?

Sid: Answer this question, why is it that the biggest Spirit Filled churches in the land most of the pastors have tight control and do not want change?

Renny: The reason being because I would say their scared of God showing up; because we don’t have a problem that we’re defining God in what God means we have a problem when He shows up.  Because when God shows up He shows out; and I’m telling you that when God shows up He exposes everything.  So the secret of it is that we got to just let go and let God. And that’s such an easy catch phrase to use.  That is so real to let go and let God because until we let go; until we let go God doesn’t manifest Himself.  And if the truth be told we really and truly is I’d say you know it’s a hard statement to say like this but I just got to say the truth.  It really boils down to a control issue; that’s really what… you know Sid that’s really what it boils down to.  It boils down to a control issue so the question is “Is Jesus Lord of the Church or is the Pastor?”  That’s really what it boils down to.

Sid: You know that your speaking truth right now Renny but the presence of God is so strong now right I believe that and we’re just about out of time, but I believe anything could happen.  I see ears popping; if your ears are popping and you hear better guess what’s just happened, you’ve just been healed.  But you know on tomorrow’s broadcast by faith we’re going to get Marina on that’s Renny’s wife and her ministry is worship. And Renny what happens when someone is truly worshiping God?

Renny:  Oh, when somebody’s truly worshiping God you become in harmony with God and when you become one with God through your worship cancer dissolves.

Sid: Okay mishpochah consider yourself challenged. I want you to understand this thing called life in this temporary period called time from eternity’s viewpoint God’s realm.  Don’t miss the next move of God’s Spirit there is such truth in this book that so few Christians understand.

SID: Hello. Sid Roth here. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. I just so love breathing in the rarified air of Heaven. My guest did it better than most people. You see, he was caught up out of his body unexpectedly to Heaven and he was granted the privilege to see the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob speaking to the Messiah of Israel about the End Times, and you must, I say you must hear what he came back to report. So let me ask you this question. My guest Carlos is a, he was at Benny Hinn’s church. You were picked out by him. Tell me real briefly, what happened. You just show up and what happened?

CARLOS: First time I attended church there, the ushers, for whatever reason, sit me at the third row, aisle seat, dead center from the platform where he’s preaching. And in the middle of his preaching, he stops, points his finger at me, he says, “I don’t know who you are, young man, but the call of God is all over your life. The anointing is upon you and from this day forward, usher, when this young man comes into this church building, I want you to make sure he gets a seat up front.” That was my introduction to Benny Hinn and to his church.

SID: And then he starts working on the team, and then he starts his own congregation, and then it’s hugely successful, and then everything that’s supposed to happen is happening, and he feels that he’s arrived. And then he goes to a meeting and a prophet says, “Who here does this city mean anything to?” And he knows it’s him. He stands up. And what does this prophet Kim Clement say to you?

CARLOS: Well the prophet said that there’s somebody here connected to Indiana. And so he goes through a process of elimination. Twelve people raise their hands and he goes, “No, it’s not you, not you, not you.” When finally I was forced to lift up my hand because he goes, “It’s somebody on the right side of the platform.” So I raise my hand and the moment I did, he goes, “It’s you.” And he says, “I want you to take four large steps towards this podium, this platform.” And so I did, and as I did he was counting them: 1, 2, 3, 4. Finally when it gets to 4 he says, “Stop.” And he goes, “Thus saith the Lord. You’ve taken four major steps in ministry, related to ministry. But the fifth step, the next step will be the biggest step ever you’ve ever taken. It will take you to places you’ve dreamed about. It will take you to places of a greater glory, greater manifestation.” And so of course, I interpret that in a totally different way to how it turned out. But nonetheless, it was that prophetic word that really almost catapulted me to really seek the Lord in a more sincere way, in a more deeper way, in a more consecrated way.

SID: So you know what? It says in the Bible that if you draw close to God, He’s going to draw close to you. That’s what happened to Carlos. Because on May 8, 2005, he’s minding his own business, sleeping. What happened?

CARLOS: And all of a sudden in the middle of the night, my spirit begins to rise up out of my body. And at first, I was just like hovering, hanging over the bed. I could see my physical body laying there. I could see my wife laying next to me. I thought to myself, what in the world is going on. I thought I passed away. That thought went through my mind.

SID: I can understand.

CARLOS: And then all of a sudden, I feel these two massive arms and I knew it was an angel. And I could see myself. He was cradling me, holding me between his two arms. And the moment I saw that, we began to rise. And I remember looking at the roof and I ducked my head because I thought I was going to hit my head against the roof, and to my surprise, we go right through the roof of the house. And so that’s when I thought, oh, Lord, I passed away. And I began to pray for my wife, my kids. So for a brief moment, my mind and my thoughts, my emotions were on earthly matters. And then all of a sudden from one instant to another instant, a moment, my emotions were flooded with this incredible joy, joy I had never felt before because I knew that I was about to go see Jesus, the Son of God. And so I remember just closing my eyes and thinking to myself, I’m ready. And then we shoot through the atmosphere going through the clouds. And then in an instant I find myself in this big open expanse of a place of, for lack of a better word, a large opening, a room. I didn’t see any buildings. I didn’t see any angels. I didn’t see anybody. I just saw, in the natural I’m color blind, so I saw these incredible colors, massive, beautiful colors.

And the neat thing about that, Sid, was the colors were actually breathing. There was life, like if it was lungs. It was expanding and inhaling. I could see the colors actually breathe and full of life.

SID: You know, I had heard reports like this before. Everything is alive in Heaven. I have heard that the grass is even alive. It’s like we haven’t even experienced life on this dead earth until we have the life of God inside of us. But how would you like to be in a place where everything is alive, no death. I like it.

CARLOS: Yes. And so from that room, all of a sudden in an instant I was back into this other room. And in this room, I saw two figures and they were standing at an angle like this, maybe from here to the camera, maybe 10 feet. And then I heard a voice and the voice said: “To you, it’s been granted to stand here and listen.” Because I immediately recognized it was the Father and the Son. At first, I didn’t know who it was, but when I, as I got a little closer, than I heard the voice. I recognized it was Jesus and the Father, and they were having a conversation. And so when I heard the voice it told me, “You’ve been granted permission to stand here and listen,” I remember turning my ear this way to listen to their conversation, and to my surprise, they were talking about the End Times.

SID: Hold that thought. When we come back, I don’t have to tell you to be sure to come back, you will be back. I know that. Don’t go away.

Sid: The ancient Jewish anointing and the Christian anointing have merged together to form the full body of Messiah. That’s what Jesus was talking about in John 17:21 He said “I pray that these 2 people groups would be one.” There were only 2 people groups not Catholics and Baptist they didn’t exist. Jews and Gentiles, and what will happen when these 2 anointing’s merge together the world will believe. My guest Dr. Lance Wallnau, we’re talking about his 4 CD teaching series must, it is a must teaching. It’s title is “In a Heartbeat.” Explain how you got that title Lance.

Lance: On 911 I happened to be in a management seminar Sid in Hawaii where the subject was “Emotional Mastery,” can you imagine that as an irony. We had people from all over the world that were venting their feelings. Palestinian’s who were actually applauding the terrorists, and Israeli’s who were there on the stage talking about how frustrated they were that this is the world they have to live in in the Middle East. It was an incredibly intense experience. As I prayed through the day and observed and was working with various people the Lord started speaking to me that “The state that we must be in in order to be able to access the kingdom of God is a state of resourcefulness, a state of creativity, a state of access and openness to the voice of God and the anointing of God.” At that moment I realized that the believer to be the peacemaker, to be the solution to the problem, to be the person that can shift the spiritual climate. Has first got to be able to shift their own state, they have to be able to go from fear or anxiety, or defeat in a fraction of a moment they have to move intentionally into the realm of the supernatural. To many of us put this off to something God does as opposed to training our self to operate in the realm that were designed to once we become a new Christian, or a new believer. So while I was working this through I realized that there are 3 elements that determine your state:

1. What gets your attention?
2. What you say to yourself.
3. How you allow your body or your nervous system, or your emotions to anchor or ground what’s getting your attention and what you are saying to yourself.

Sid: You know I don’t want to digress too much but you said that one of the popular teachings of the day has been what’s known as “Word of Faith Teaching” and they didn’t allow for the emotions. Would you just comment a little bit there?

Lance: Absolutely. The kingdom of God said “It’s two-thirds century.” It’s righteousness which comes by faith, and then peace and joy. You tell me somebody who comes in… I consider myself a word of faith. I come into your house and you see me with a long face and I look depressed and it looks like I need Prozac, then I’m coming to you talking to you about overcoming life. Immediately you can the kingdom isn’t resonating in my life because joy and peace are sensory dimensions. You feel those states, they are states not just emotions. So the kingdom of God is two-thirds an overcoming state or mode of existence.

Sid: Many people feel “No you just hang on to the word and everything will take care of itself.”

Lance: There you have the problem because if all you’re doing is hanging onto the word you have one part of you in agreement which is cognizant, you’re cognate in part. Your emotive part which is where your passion your feelings are they also have got to line up or you become a house divided. We’ve all been around believers who say that they’ve forgiven and their past is past, and when you’re around them you know there’s still a bitterness and unresolved aspect and you pick up on it because their feelings have not yet really released the issue. You’re absolutely right, so this teaching is recognizing the fact that states is… you know the Jewish concept it’s very Greek when you talk body, soul, and spirit you’re talking Paul writing to the Thessalonians to the Greek culture. Jesus when He talked He talked with a Jewish context. He said “Though shall love the Lord thy God with all of thy heart the soul and the mind, and thy strength.” He wasn’t as nice and tidy as spirit, soul, body He had mind and heart. What did He do? He has a mind and a heart. How did He dichotomize that? Well the reality is to the Jewish mind they all overlap you can’t cut Sid Roth in half without cutting all of him. You can’t just separate your spirit, soul, and body so nice and neatly. So I think what I’m teaching is state is the overlap of the mind, heart, soul, spirit and body. It’s the combined mailing address of where your dominant state is right now which determines to a great degree whether or not you’re able to access everything God has for you. In a heartbeat means in a moment you can shift your focus, shift your attention, shift what you’re saying and actually by doing so you move from a disempowered condition to one that’s open and receptive to the anointing.

Sid: As you pointed out it’s almost a built in warning system to let you know you’re not in the anointing when you pay attention to your feelings.

Lance: Oh you absolutely got it Sid! Listen this I teach kids… I had an interesting experience last night. I’m on the road a lot, I come home to my local church because I’ve got a family. My wife has a degree in film so she was out doing a video project. My daughter is 10 years old and her… so my wife was going to teach the class for the children last night and she was late. The Lord told me “Take your daughter’s class.” I like that because I like the fact that I could be talking to businessmen, or personalities one day, then I’m with the 9 year olds the next day, keeps it real. So Sid I’m with the 9 year olds and the Lord said “I want you to teach them how to access the sound of my voice in a heartbeat.” I said “9 year olds, this’ll be interesting.” The Lord said “Get paper” I handed out paper and water colors. I had them all pair up in teams of 2 and join hands with their girlfriends or their friends. I said “Now here we’re gonna learn how God doesn’t have a little Holy Spirit or a big Holy Spirit. He only has one Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit in you is big enough to talk to you if you can get comfortable He’s going to help you minister to your friends today.” So I had them hold each other’s hands and ask the Lord to give them a picture, or an idea, or an image, or an impression that they would be able to draw that would be a prophetic, a love letter from God to the other person. Right away they were uptight they were tense they were a little nervous they had never done this before. So I had them all make fist with their left hand and I said “Take your right index finger and try to pry it into your fist. None of them could do it. I said “Alright now I want you to relax your fist so it’s really loose, now stick your index finger in between your fingers in your left hand, and they all could stick their fingers through.” I said “You know when were really uptight God wants to speak to us but He can’t, but when we learn to walk in peace and rest in Him, even in a place where were stressful or upset God will talk to us. So let’s do it again.” I had them all worship a little bit and let me pray for them. Now they relaxed and asked God for picture. Sid it was phenomenal I had about 20 kids all getting scriptures, or prophetic pictures that drew in row to their friends and gave them to them last night. Proving to me that your state in a heartbeat is not something which is just a territory of an adult, or a consultant, or a businessman it’s every one of us can learn how to adjust our self to hear God. Your program is being broadcast right now on an invisible wavelength. If someone has a receiver they can hear what Sid Roth wants to say, and we’re all designed the same way. Our state determines our reception.

Sid: Hmm. Well, let me ask you this how do you get your emotions to line up, if you will, with your spirit and the word?

Lance: Well that’s a very powerful, very powerful point it’s going to be difficult to do it quickly but I’ll give you an example right now. I’m flying in Chicago in the airport we have a blizzard. I have a conference in New England I’ve got to speak at, I’ve got people coming in and I cancel flights in Chicago. I hate O’Hare Airport at times because of this. So I’m standing there with my wife and 3 children, and my state is obviously one of frustration, agitation, irritation, I’m not in a peak state right now, right now I’m in a frustrated state. I’m thinking of my own teaching, I’m thinking “You know Lance you teach this what would you say to yourself if you were coaching yourself?” I said “First thing I’d do is shift my focus. What am I focused on? I’m focused on not getting out of the airport, so I’m not going to focus on that I’m gonna focus on God’s creativity.” What am I saying to myself? I’m saying “Look how long that line is I’m never gonna get out of here I’m going to be humiliated. People are showing up for a conference and I’m not even there. What am I going to say? My self-talk is going to change and here’s what I’m going to say ‘I serve a creative God, therefore God gives me the ability to be creative.’” At that moment a thought came to me my state started shifting I started realizing “I’m going to start to focus on God’s creative ability right now to give me a solution.” So I see a woman with a clipboard walking around from United and see that she has some authority, and I don’t know exactly what she is doing but my spirit tells me there’s the key. So with hundreds of people… now I don’t even know if I should confess this on the radio. I’m just going to tell you what I did, I started kvetch’ing, I started complaining. I said “Oh I don’t know what I’m gonna do with this blizzard I have a baby right here.” She’s like 5 years old, I said “What are we going to do for milk, what are we going to do for diapers…” and my wife hits me in the ribs and she says “What’s the matter with you you never talk like this.” I said “Stop it! I’m being creative. I don’t know what I’m gonna do I’ve got the kids, I’ve got the…” the woman comes up to me and says “Sir is this your family?” I said “Yes.” She said “Is that your little girl” and I said “Yes. I don’t know what I’m gonna do I’m stuck here overnight.” She said “You follow me.” Sid she put me on a special flight for handicapped people, she must of thought I was mental or something.

Sid: [Laughing]

Lance: A flight for handicapped people. We flew out in 45 minutes and I arrived for the conference. I’m telling you this is what I learned state is everything. God at any moment can bubble up a word of knowledge, a word of wisdom, a way to handle the situation if we can take responsibility for keeping our feelings in alignment with a new focus because let’s face it your feelings follow your focus. If your focus shifts your feelings have to shift. So you shift your focus and your feelings begin to move with it.

Sid: Now I’m going to ask you a personal question. Do you ever look angry, do you ever look I mean physically look grumpy? Do you ever physically look worried?

Lance: [Laughing] You know this is funny. My answer is quite honestly, I used to drive to church and my son who is 7 years old looked at me and said “Dad how come you’re angry.” I looked at him and I said “Son I’m not angry” I said “You know there are serious problems in the world and I’m merely thinking about them.” I’m giving him an answer and he looks at and he says “Dad that went right over my head.” [Laughing]

Sid: Hmm.

Lance: I realized I trying to justify and explain my problem. I looked at the mirror and I thought “My 7 year old can see that I’m not a happy preacher. This is not a good testimony for a preacher’s kid.” So from that moment I began to study the relationship between my expression and my state. I believe personally my feeling is this your state is the combination of your focus, what you say to yourself and how you command your physiology. My body on purpose is conditioned to be resourceful.

Sid: So that’s why when it says in the New Testament your spirit, soul and body it lumps all 3 together.

Lance: All 3 together.

Sid: Oh we’re out of time.

Sid: I see a trend, in fact I was talking to the producer of It’s Supernatural television over the last couple of days about this. I’m concerned it seems as though the pendulum has swung. At one point people are almost afraid of God they looked at God as someone with a big stick that was going to hit them over the head. Now the pendulum has swung and God is my best buddy I can do anything with Him and there is almost no reverence and respect that God is entitled to and deserves. The thing that happens is the next step that happens from there is a loosening, a seeker sensitive if you will, with the words of God. Especially in the arena that I’m going to be speaking to my guest about and the arena is homosexuality. I have on the telephone; I’m speaking to him; I caught up with him at Anaheim, California; he’s normally in Washington D.C. the Chairman of Traditional Values Coalition, Louis Sheldon. Louis I have to tell you I have just looked over your book “The Agenda” subtitled “The Homosexual Plan to Change America.” Yes in the back of my mind in the recesses of my brain I knew some of these things, but I had no idea how organized this is, and how quickly things are changing and could continue to change unless we’re knowledgeable of these things. I would like to start out by asking you a couple of quick questions, and that is how is it that the press has given a green light, it appears, to everything that is homosexual to the point of I couldn’t even believe what I saw on the internet a few weeks back where there’s going to be an entire television network devoted to homosexuality? How did we get so far from the time where people would be ashamed to admit they were homosexuals to the point where it’s in your face?

Louis: I think basically what has happened is that the church has been asleep on this issue. In other words there is nothing more discomforting, or hard to talk to about because it is sexual, than the homosexual issue. The homosexual issue involves sexual activity of a homosexual nature. How often do we talk about in our sermons, or in our Bible classes, or in evangelistic, or revival meetings of sex explicitly? When you deal with this issue most Christians have backed away and just said “Oh that’s of the devil.” They have allowed those people that support it, those people that are homosexuals to take the lead. So all at once we wake up and the camel not only has his nose in the tent, but he’s sitting in the tent with us, and we wonder what we’re gonna do.

Sid: Yes but why is the press giving them a free pass?

Louis: Because the press since the very beginning of this, which would be June of 1969 in lower Manhattan where the homosexuals created a riot for several days in New York City there. Over the issue of the police having raided their gay bars and said “Look stop this kind of homosexual activity sexual sex acts between men that was taking place right in the bar.” Now the press called that the new frontier of discrimination; meaning that they were being discriminated for their right to do what they wanted to do sexually with each other to men. Ever since then many newspapers for many reasons they come out of the schools of journalism like the Columbia School of Journalism, or Pennsylvania University School of Journalism, and they’re very liberal. So they always take the liberal position, in other words, “If it feels good do it.” That was a slogan back, you know, in the 60’s itself.

Sid: Louis just so that people know the serious of the nature, you had a quote on page 2 of your book that was actually reprinted in the Congressional Record that really reveals the  purposes of the gay rights movement. I wonder if you would read that quote?

Louis: Yes I will. This is so important to realize this. First was printed in the homosexual newspaper by Michael Swift published in the Gay Community Newspaper in February of 1987, so that was 18 years ago. Congressman Dana Meyer picked it up several years later in 1989, he’s a congressman from southern California and put it in the Congressional Record. It reads as follows: “We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our homosexual image. They will come to crave and adore us.” You have to realize that when that was placed in the Congressional Record and read by Congressman Dana Meyer as he put it in the record; the homosexual movement cheered they did not even get mad. They had been bold to promote and advocate their evil as good for years.

Sid: Louis in reading your book “The Agenda the Homosexual Plan to Change America.” I’m amazed at how sophisticated the strategy is with young children with the education system. Tell us some of the things that are going on.

Louis: Very clearly a proposition was put forth with about 15 or 20 pages it was published back in the late 1980’s “How to Overhaul Straight America.” You know so they would become sympathetic, I think in that was the plan that we need to penetrate the public schools. So was born as a result of that challenge, from these 2 writers, the gay and lesbian, and straight educator’s network known as Gleeson, G-L-S-E-N. That network took a Supreme Court decision that sued a school district in Milwaukee; GLSEN sued that school district for almost a million dollars because the kids witnessed to the homosexuals there concerning their lifestyle. They awarded a million dollars to this young man at that time who had already entered college because his school district did not come down on the side of protecting the homosexual lifestyle. So that was the beginning of GLSEN, today GLSEN is in thousands of school districts across America. They hold what they call the Diversity Week every year saying “That homosexuality’s no different than you like chocolate ice cream, I like vanilla ice cream it’s all ice cream.” In other words, sexuality can be between 2 men, or 2 women, or 3 men and 1 woman. It gets very very…

Sid: Okay does this start in high school, or does this start at even younger ages?

Louis: Starts in the middle schools. You have even now in some elementary schools where the School Board has approved it, especially if that state has repealed its sodomy laws. Now that we have the Supreme Court decision several years ago that repealed the sodomy law of Texas it isn’t illegal anyway to teach and promote homosexuality alongside of 1 man 1 woman in marriage and family. So it does begin basically in middle school, but there are some school districts that are starting it 5^th and 6^th grade to tell them that they shouldn’t be locked in to just a mother and a father the parents can be of the same sex.

Sid: What is the real agenda when you talk about the homosexual agenda, what is their agenda?

Louis: Their agenda is to change America to remove them man and woman consensus from center stage, and to replace it with a whole new sexual diversity philosophy of gay, lesbian, transvestite, transgender (that’s man who changes physically; he has a doctor change his sex organs). Then pretty soon you can count on pedophilia moving into that. For some time the American Psychological and Psychiatric Association said that “Pedophilia wasn’t a social disorder it was only if it kept you from getting up in the morning and going to work.” So their agenda is remove, to destroy marriage as we know it a man a woman, and potentially…

Sid: Is there a difference at this moment in history between the United States of America’s laws and what is being done in these perverted areas, and Sodom and Gomorrah?

Louis: Well right now we haven’t quite reached Sodom and Gomorrah because there’s many states that have somewhat have ignored the Supreme Court decision overturning the sodomy law. We have now 43 states that have passed either a law or a constitutional amendment saying that marriage will only be between 1 man and 1 woman together. So from that perspective we have put up resistance. Now, but we are heading towards Sodom and Gomorrah…

Sid: Look we’re out of time.