Sid: Bill went to see a female evangelist that he was very skeptical over; her name is Katherine Kuhlman and the lady next to him is from Canada and she came even on her own not even on the bus. And she looks at him and he identifies himself as a Pentecostal minister she said “Oh, I’m so glad you’re next to me because you understand miracles.” And of course Bill when she said that to you were you so deceived that you didn’t even know you didn’t understand miracles?
Bill: Oh, of course I patted her hand and agreed with her; (Laughing) It was like I thought you know how blessed are you to get to sit beside me. I was humble and proud of it; I mean yeah I mean because I really I thought I had all there was to have and knew all there was to know.
Sid: And that’s a dangerous position (Laughing).
Bill: I understand that (Laughing). Yeah and everything was fine Sid until the service started and when the service started it was actually a morning service. Katherine had a Friday morning service 9:00 usually it started in Pittsburgh. Which I thought was actually so stupid; I thought who would come to a Friday morning service, you know but I mean the church would fill up instantly as soon as the doors would open. They’d fill the basement up because people were so hungry even in those days. So Katherine came out; she always wore the white dress you know it had the spotlights on her dress; the fans on the platform blowing her dress gently, and organ and the piano and her red hair. Well honestly I never seen anything like this; and when she lead a song you would remember because you knew her our arms would start going. And it was almost like she did a little ballet thing and it looked like she was floating and she appeared to me to be half angel half woman you know. She would look at the crowd and say something like “I’m the most ordinary person in the world.” And I’m sitting there criticizing; “I’m thinking no you’re not, no.”
Sid: (Laughing) You’re a caricature.
Bill: And she would look up in the lights and her eyes glistening with tears and she say “Jesus don’t let them see me; let them see You.” And I’m thinking “You know you could help this; you know wear a black dress, turn off the spotlights.” I mean I’m there to criticize you see Sid. But my problem was I’m being overwhelmed and overcome by the power and the presence of God like I had never experienced in my life. That’s challenging when you don’t want to be you know I mean… (Laughing)
Sid: What did you start seeing at this meeting?
Bill: Well, you know things started happening. I mean Kathryn of course just when she came out I mean you just felt this cloud of God’s glory and you knew that you were in the presence of God; I knew that. And I knew that this was God and I’m being overwhelmed by this and then she started ministering to people. And every time she went anywhere near people, touch people they would fall down; sometimes they almost appeared to fly you know across the room. And this Catholic lady beside me grabs my arm and she said “What’s she doing to them?” Well, I patted her hand because remember I’m the answer man.
Sid: (Laughing)
Bill: And I know all; so I said to her “Oh, it’s okay this is just the power of God.” Well, she got so excited and she ended up getting healed but what happened to me in that moment was the moment when my life would change forever. When I said “This is just the power of God” I could put it in two words Sid “He came.” Holy Spirit came He came to me; I literally felt His finger in my chest pointing and saying “Yes this is My power.”
Sid: But wait a second you’re a Pentecostal Minister you have felt the presence of God before; what was the difference between this night and before?
Bill: Never like this, never I’ve never been overwhelmed like this; I’d never been overcome like this. It was like Holy Spirit had come right face to face with me. And I heard Him I mean; I’m sure it wasn’t an audible voice but I heard Him as clear as if it was saying “Yes, this is my power and you’ve never seen it; you have had a form of godliness and you have denied My power.” Well, Sid in that moment I started crying in fact I started convulsing and this Catholic lady that I’m supposedly helping put her arm on my shoulder and says “Are you okay?” And I said “No.” She says “Can I help you?” I said “No, no one can help me.” I mean I had no idea that I was denying God’s power.
Sid: I was listening to a video of yours and you said “For the first time you realized that the Holy Spirit isn’t a power but a person.”
Bill: That was really why I was crying because in that moment Sid I realized I didn’t know Him; I didn’t know Him. But you know if you’re introduced to President George Bush he gives you a gift and leaves. You could say “I met him.” You could say “I was introduced to him;” you could say “I received a gift.” But you can’t say “He’s my dear friend.” You can’t say “You know I’ve got a great relationship with him” unless you really do. With me I been introduced to Holy Spirit, He’d given me a gift and I said “Thank you, that’s fine.” And that was the end; I felt I’d arrived now and realizing later like people like Apostle Paul and others when they met Holy Spirit they took the next few years to go out into the wilderness to learn of the Spirit. Jesus in John chapter 14 said “I’m going to send another just like Me and you’ll know Him, because He is going to live with you.” And I realized in that moment that Holy Spirit to me was a doctrine that I believed with all my heart and my doctrine said “He’s a person so I believed that but I didn’t know Him.” And in that moment I made a decision with tears “I’m not going to seek healing ministry anymore; I’m not going to seek to be successful ministry anymore I’m going to give the rest of my life of pursuing You; I want to know You Holy Spirit. Because Jesus said “I can know You.” And to me the main difference between the church today and the church in the book of Acts is their reaction and relationship with Holy Spirit. The Book of Acts people treated Holy Spirit exactly like they treated Jesus another just like Him. We have reduced Him to a controversial doctrine or just a force or power when He’s a wonderful person. And that was… that decision was the life changing moment; I had no idea what was going to happen.
Sid: Well, let me ask you a question from the time that you were empowered, and you were, from the time your heart was changed to pursue God to that degree and you were…your heart was changed to pursue God; how long did it take before you saw your first miracle?
Bill: Well see that’s the crazy thing about this because some people say “You know they fasted, they prayed for months, years, weeks for a ministry. I left that service after having seen everything I always believed God should be doing and never saw it. Having had this life changing experience so I didn’t realize it was going to change my life; I just knew that this was what I had to do. We get back on the bus and we start heading back to Canada we had 12 hours to drive back. And of course we’re all tired; I had invited the bus driver to come to the service and he wasn’t a Christian, wasn’t a believer and he said he would come but he didn’t. He challenged me when we stopped just outside Pittsburgh for coffee. He said “If God really was healing how come He didn’t heal the little girl?” Because the little girl, the Greek Orthodox girl I mentioned yesterday.
Sid: Was that that four year old that never walked?
Bill: She couldn’t walk we carried her back on the bus.
Sid: Hmm.
Bill: Exactly the same she’d been before I mean she wasn’t healed and in fact as we started talking to people on our bus it appeared that no body from our bus was healed. But you know a lot of people were healed in the meeting. And I said to the bus driver “Tom I don’t know why she wasn’t healed, but boy you should have seen it, it was wonderful.” This is how I started this healing ministry Sid, we started out after having coffee I put my seat back in the reclining position and I went to sleep. That’s how I started the ministry; the leader of the bus came and woke me up and said “Something’s happening back here.” I walked back and a lady was just singing quietly in tongues, singing in the Spirit. And this is 1972 and her friends said to me “She’s never done this before we’re Catholics.” And so I thought “Wow, this is something.” And as she’s doing this I’m feeling I guess now I would call it anointing, I just felt God’s presence there on the bus.
Sid: Just as I am right now as your speaking, go ahead.
Bill: And so I walked to the front of the bus I took the microphone and I just said “Folks… you know people are sleeping and they’re resting and I said “Folks you may want to know something’s happening back here.” And I told them what was happening and in my circles would have said “Praise God,” and that was it. But most of these people weren’t from Pentecostal or Assembly backgrounds or charismatic backgrounds and so they got up and they went and listened; they leaned over and wanted to hear this lady…
Sid: Oh… we’re out of time wait till you hear what happened to this four year old that never walked right on the bus going back to Canada. I have to believe that after 30 years of seeing more miracles than anyone I know, or as many as anyone that I know you know, things about healing that very few others understand.
