Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Graham Cooke and for many of you you’re familiar with his ministry. I’ve heard about him for years and I’m so looking forward to this interview because he doesn’t know this, but I grabbed hold of his latest book and it’s called “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy.” It was like every page he had things in there are so beneficial; Graham It’s a mentoring book that’s what this is, would you there’s something and we’re going to go out of order but it’s such an important point. You know Mishpochah if you don’t catch anything else in this interview I want you to understand Graham’s approach with the subject called, “Grace Growers,” Graham would you explain what a grace grower is.
Graham: (laughing) “Grace Growers,” yeah I think it’s a great term to describe people that make us tired, weary, angry, who seem to approach us and catch us in moments when we are finding it difficult to represent who God really is in terms of his nature and character. People rub it up the wrong way you know and I guess we all have those in our lives and now I’ve got sometimes I feel I have more than my share. And so for me it just became… I wanted to find a really positive way not only of enabling me to develop at least a conversation if not a relationship with those people, but also to learn and to develop something in my own relationship with the Holy Spirit. So I chose to see the whole situation as one where I could grow in grace and learn how to see them as God saw them so that I could actually speak in a way that could actually glorify God, and actual be beneficial to them and to myself.
Sid: Now you gave an example of three men that took it upon themselves to tell everyone how awful you were followed you around from meeting to meeting. It was your own fan club doing the opposite of what fans are supposed to do, your own heckling club.
Graham: Yeah, it was probably 25 years ago, I first started doing schools of prophecy. There weren’t too many people doing them and so it was very new. You know what it’s like in the church sometimes with something new everyone’s wary and suspicious and some people I just think are unkind about the whole process of learning something new. So I had these three guys and we privately called them the “Three Stooges” because they would find out where I was going to do a school next. They would visit that place a month beforehand, talk to all the leaders of churches and say you know just terrible things like “Don’t let your people go to this guy, he’s in the occult and he’s this, he’s that and he’s the other.” And they would hand out leaflets beforehand. Then they would sign in to come to the event and they would outside with plaque cards and photographs and leaflets, don’t let this guy, if you have to go in there don’t let this guy pray over you, don’t let him touch you, don’t let him prophesy over you. And then they would come in put all their placards at the back of the hall and sit right in the front row right in front of the lectern and they would have note pads. They would take notes of everything I said
Sid: For the purpose of using it against you.
Graham: Absolutely. Then they had a news letter they put out all the mistakes they felt I made and everything. So remember this went on for months event after event, after event. They really felt they had a call from the Lord to expose me, unmask me or do something horrendous. So I remember crying out “So Lord please kill them, make it slow.” Thankfully He didn’t answer that prayer.
Sid: (Laughing)
Graham: Then this had gone on for like two years Sid and it was just horrible and we were in this extended time of fasting and praying saying Lord “What do we do with these guys you know?” And then one night I had a dream which changed everything and in the dream I tend to have dreams that are usually revelatory where I’m in the Throne Room and the Lord is sat on the Throne and I’m sat on arm of His throne with my legs over His lap. And usually our heads are together and we’re talking, so my dream starts out this way and the Lord just said to me, “So would you like to see something?” So I said, “Sure.” And an angel kind of wheeled in this huge block of marble that must have been 6’ tall 4’ wide 3’ deep. The Lord said, “What do you think about that?” And I said, “It’s the most beautiful piece of stone I’ve ever seen.” And He said, “Would you like to see something else?” And I said, “Yeah.” And then it’s like the Lord Jesus walked into view and stuck his finger a quarter of inch into the marble and just began to trace the outline of this figure, of this person.” And when He’s finished He turned and I remember Him smiling kind of a slow smile and faintly mischievous and walking out of shot. The Father said to me “So would you like to see that made?” And I said, “Yeah,” and so He gave a command and just three pairs of hands with a hammer and chisel in each hand just came and just began to chisel this outline of this figure to make this statue. And the Father said to me “You know Graham the work will go much faster if you encourage them.” And so I just began to speak out and to bless you; all power to you and that kind of thing. And the Father’s laughing and saying “No, no you’ll have to be much more stronger than that.” And so I began shouting, eventually I’m standing on the arm this throne with my hand on top of God’s head. And I’m shouting, I’m pointing my finger, blessing, power, strength and all around me everyone’s laughing, there are angels. One angel on the floor in particular is crying with laughter and he’s beating is wings like beating the floor. And it’s just laughter it’s just absolute pandemonium everywhere, and then eventually it’s finished. I remember thinking down and being absolutely exhausted in my throat you know because I was shouting actually at the top of my voice and then the Father said, “So what do you think” and I looked to the statue and it’s so beautiful Sid I start to cry and I said “Lord it’s astonishing.” He said, “Yeah that’s exactly how I see you and I said “Really.” and He said, “Yeah, that’s what I making you into;” and then He said, “Now would you like to thank the sculptures” and I said “Yeah, sure that would be great.” And out from behind it popped these three men.
Sid: Oh no.
Graham: They had been following me around and I looked and I remember I shouted so loud, “Ah,” that I woke myself up. And suddenly I’m in my bedroom, I’m shouting out loud; my wife is saying “What, what,” I’m just I’m almost incoherent I saying “The stooges, God statue, me; I know what they’re doing in my life.” And suddenly it popped in my head, “Son they’re your grace growers I’ve sent them to turn you into someone remarkable.” And then it’s like I had a download so I got out of my bed and went downstairs and I wrote for half an hour. And that’s how this whole thing of grace growers just popped out of this dream I had. (laughing)
Sid: Graham I’ve been studying a bit about what you’ve been teaching and you have a different paradigm for a lot of things.
Graham: Yeah.
Sid: You have a different paradigm for the purpose of a Christian, of salvation, for I mean the average Christian when they think of salvation they think of someone grabbing someone getting them to a Billy Graham meeting. Letting them say the prayer of salvation and then finding someone else to do it, totally different paradigm. You have a different paradigm for what church is suppose to be like.
Graham: Yeah.
Sid: You have a different paradigm for what prophesy is supposed to be like. How long have you been like this?
Graham: I think for me it’s just been a great journey, it’s been very painful at times but it’s just I think everyone is on this wonderful journey deep into the heart of God. That’s where we’re all going that’s our destination.
Sid: There is nothing I want more and I believe our listeners there is nothing they want more than deeper intimacy with God. That’s why I’m so glad that I have got a wonderful new mentoring tool it’s your latest book “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy.” But even though that’s what it does it really could just as easily be, the title could be “Approaching the Heart of God.” But tell me what you’re trying to accomplish in this book.
Graham: Well, I think this is my premise for life in the Spirit really, what if the gospel is such incredible news that it’s almost too good to be true? What if the gospel is such an amazingly brilliantly wonderful news that it almost borders on fantasy? What if like the only way that you could really connect with a God who does things for us or even beyond our capacity to think and what is that? For me that would be dreaming, it would be imagination. What if God is like so astonishing that He can give you a quality of life that’s actually beyond your ability to imagine or understand? So with that as a premise for life all of my kind of teaching and writing over the years has been predicated on that thought and that the only way you could talk about God is in superlatives. He’s astonishing, He’s amazing, He’s wonderful, He’s brilliant, He’s majestic. So whatever I’m writing whether it’s approaching this book “Approaching the Heart of Prophecy” I’m really looking to put people in touch with the hearts of a true Father who intends to be magnificent toward us. And so when we actually speak out of His heart in prophecy that is what we are doing, we’re putting people in touch with this wonderful Father figure who knows everything about us and totally loves us, and is deeply committed to us and to our journey.
