Sid: Bill Wiese was chosen by God to spend 23 minutes in Hell as a non-believer and report to the world of its reality. He also was told about when Jesus would return. Next on this edition of It’s Supernatural.

Can ancient secrets of the supernatural be rediscovered? Do angels exist? Is there life after death? Are healing miracles real? Can you get supernatural help from another dimension? Has the future been written in advance? Sid Roth has spent 30 years researching the strange world of the supernatural. Join Sid on this edition of It’s Supernatural.

Sid: Hello. Sid Roth. Welcome to my world where it’s naturally supernatural. Do you believe in a literal Hell? I mean, one where there’s suffering and sulfur and torment, and demons with pitchforks. Well a survey was done in America by Barnum and he found that two-thirds of the people do not believe in Hell with suffering. And as a matter of fact, it’s not a popular subject. When was the last time you went to a house of worship and they spoke about Hell? Well God had to take things into His own hands and He showed a man that has impeccable character, a man that has never been into drugs or alcohol, that has a good marriage, a solid citizen. I even looked at his references and the former retired chief of police that he’s known for decades gave him a character witness. I mean, if I was in Hollywood and casting someone to see Hell, and come back and report on it this is the man I would have picked. We went out on the streets to find out people believe in a Hell where there’s suffering and sulfur, and demons. You’ll be amazed at what we found out.

Man 1: No, I don’t believe there’s a Hell. You know, God loves everybody, so He wants everybody to live up with Him in Heaven.

Woman 1: Hell? Sometimes I think Hell is on Earth with all the random acts of violence and the wars, and the terrorism that goes on. I think Hell is here.

Man 2: No, I don’t believe there’s a Hell at all. I think that’s something that the church made up to control and manipulate people. Everyone’s going to go to Heaven because God’s a good God who loves us all. As long as we live a good life and are good people, we’re all going to get to Heaven.

Woman 2: Yeah, I believe there’s a Hell. I believe it’s a place where people go if they don’t ask God to forgive them of their sins.

Sid: Hello. Sid Roth here with Bill and Annette Wiese. And Bill, before you had, and get this, he had a literal guided tour of Hell. Before that happened, what did you think about Hell?

Bill: Well Sid, I never really thought about Hell. I had been a Christian for 40 years. This happened 12 years ago. But I never really studied the topic. I had no interest in it. My wife and I never see dark movies or entertain anything evil like that. But I knew it was fiery and that was as much as I knew. So I’ve learned a lot since then.

Sid: Okay. I’m going to take you to that date, November 23rd, 1998, and you go to bed, you get up, at what time, three in the morning?

Bill: I got up at three o’clock just to get a glass of water.

Sid: How did you know it was three?

Bill: I looked at the clock.

Sid: Okay. You get the glass of water. What happened to you?

Bill: Suddenly, Sid, I found myself, I was being pulled out of my body, like this was an out-of-body experience, and I had never had one before. But I was pulled out of my body and I found myself falling through the air and tumbling down this long tunnel. And I entered into this open cavern area and hit this stone floor, and I found myself in a prison cell with rough hue stonewalls and bars. I was actually in a prison, but it looked like a dungeon, filthy, stinking, smoke-filled prison.

Sid: Did you realize where you were?

Bill: I was fully awake and cognizant. I was not dreaming.

Sid: No, I understand. But did you know you were in Hell?

Bill: Yes. The heat was far beyond the ability to sustain life, so I knew immediately I was in Hell. And there were demonic creatures in this cell with me. They were pacing like a caged animal, real ferocious, vicious demeanor, like no creature I had ever seen.

Sid: Before this, were you one prone to visions and things like this?

Bill: No. I’ve never had a vision before. And like I said, I was fully awake and cognizant. I was actually in this place, Sid. And to see these demons pacing in the cell. They had extreme hatred for God and then they directed that hatred towards me. I wondered why. What have I done to them? But the one picked me up, threw me into the wall, tremendous strength in these demons.

Sid: Wait a second now. You’re a Christian.

Bill: Right.

Sid: You’re not supposed to be in Hell. Didn’t you remind them? I would have.

Bill: Well Sid, the only way a Christian could see Hell is in a vision. This was a vision, and God hid it from my mind that I was a Christian. He blocked it from me. There’s many scriptures I could give you for that. But the purpose was so I could experience what an unsaved person would experience in Hell.

Sid: Everything happening all around you so fast was going on. When you came up with your first question to yourself, what was it?

Bill: Well why am I here? Why am I here? How did I get here? And I didn’t understand any of this. Everything was explained on the way back, but at this moment, all I was experiencing was the pain and the torment that these demons were inflicting.

Sid: You actually could feel this?

Bill: Yes, I could feel it. Now I understood that most of the feeling was being blocked and God explained on the way back that He hid, blocked most of the pain, but He did allow me to feel some of the pain so I could relay to people it’s not metaphorical or allegorical. It’s real literal pain you’re going to feel in Hell. The amount I felt was enough.

Sid: What was the worst experience you had on this guided tour of Hell?

Bill: Knowing that I’ll never get out, the hopelessness. You see, that’s what God wanted me to experience what they feel there. See, if I was there as a Christian, which I was, but He hid it from me, I would know I’m getting out of here. Thank God, I’m getting out of here. I don’t have to stay here. But as an unsaved person, I understood I’ll never get out. Ten million years will go by, I’m still there. And that’s the worse part, knowing there’s no one going to come rescue you. There’s no cavalry coming over the hill, there’s no angels to protect you. You are lost and in torment, and hopeless forever. That was the worse part.

Sid: Tell me some of the things you saw with your eyes in Hell.

Bill: I saw these demons, reptilish in appearance, bumps and scales all over their body, huge jaws, sunken eyes, claws about a foot long. These particular two were about 12 or 13 feet tall. That sounds like an exaggeration, but there’s even scripture for that. But they tormented me. They dug their claws in my chest and just tore the flesh open. I couldn’t believe I was still alive through this. The flesh is hung like ribbons. I noticed there was no water or blood.

Sid: But you see, there was a reason that the Messiah took him on a guided tour of Hell. And when you find out this reason, I believe it’s going to change your life forever. Don’t go away. We’ll be right back.

Sid:  I have a man that is a perfect one new man; his name is Dr. Renny McLean.  Why do I say that he is a perfect one new man?  Because his father was Gentle and his mother Jewish, I’m talking to a one new man Renny.  But you the one thing I want you to teach me and will let our audience, our Mishpochah ease drop on.  The one thing, Renny is and when I study healing over all these years, if I could only have one ingredient to emphasize for healing it will be what you teach and that is worship.  Now you came from a family where your mother being Jewish, you should have never understood these things; but she had a visitation from the Lord; became a believer in Jesus and you learned about worship from an early age.  Tell me what you learned as a young child about worship.

Renny:  I learned Sid, that when every time I worship the presence of God would come and I would know it, because I began to understand, you know I was doing things in my early years that I didn’t understand till years after.  For example, this is what I understand now, what I was doing then and this is what I understood that worship is the affirmation that God is present.  And when God is present, anything can happen and that’s a simple truth, but it’s very profound.  Worship demands God to be present.  And I notice that when we would worship, the atmosphere would change.  People would change, the glory would come in and things would actually just begin to happen.

Sid:  But, let me ask you this question for some people that are listening right now.  They were not blessed with having a family like you did in the way you were raised and they hear worship they think of magnificent singing in the church, but they’ve never really felt much and they certainly never seen the need when they’re outside of church to be worshiping God.  What would you say to them?

Renny:  Well, let’s break it down so that the whole people get this. First of all this is what happens, when we worship, when we worship the presence of God comes.  When the presence of God comes people are in harmony with their creator and so because t there is that harmony between man and God then what you are suppose to be is what you become.  So that’s why you become healed, that’s why you become delivered, that’s why you become prosperous because whatever God touches you know, he imparts himself.  And so Sid I learned a long time ago that at times we enter the presence of God, but people do not know what to do in the presence.  There are times when the presence of God comes all we can do is just lift our hands.  And sometimes you can’t say nothing, because there’s nothing to say because He is just God.  You just lift your hands.  You can lift your hands right now and just acknowledge that He is present.

Sid:  Let’s do it, lift your hands right now, everyone listening to me, unless you’re driving and then let’s not tempt the Lord.  Lift your hands up.  Alright I have my hands lifted up, be my coach Renny.

Renny:  Yeah, Lord we just worship you now.  We acknowledge your presence, we declare you our king; we declare you our Lord, we declare you our Savior.  You are present right now and when you are present Lord there is nothing lacking when you are present.   That means healing is present, oh My God, that means healing is present, that means prosperity is present.  Everything you are is present because when you come there is nothing of yourself you leave behind.  And so Lord, we lift our hands to you and we say thank you Lord!  Thank you Lord!  We just need to thank Him.

Sid:  Thank you Lord, thank you, thank you for your goodness, Lord if I didn’t feel anything right now I would thank you as much as I’m thanking you right now. But however I do feel something.  They’re some people that don’t feel a thing and if they would only know that you receive their thanks whether they feel anything or not and you are pleased by them thanking you right now.  Thank you Lord.  Bless you Lord.

Renny:  Yes, we thank you.  You see Sid, what I just heard in the Spirit He said when were thanking Him we’re worshipping Him, we’re sowing to the Spirit, we’re sowing to the Spirit.  And you know the longer we do it you know, the greater the seed then God pours it back in the form of harvest.

Sid:  You know I remember many years ago Renny, when I became a new believer there was a man that was very popular in the Full Gospel Businessman circle of speaking; his name is Norvel Hayes.  And if I remember right, he had five million dollar corporations and that impressed everyone back then.  But this is what he use to say, every morning I just spend a lot of time thanking God.  I never really understood what he was saying until now; you understand what he was saying.

Renny:  Yes, yes, definitely yes because Sid if you think about it if we submit to Him you can’t submit and not yield.  It is in the yielding feel His presence.  It is in the yielding we feel His power, it is in the yielding we feel His glory; and the atmosphere changes; the atmosphere becomes light.  The atmosphere sometimes can become heavy with His presence.  But burdens become lifted; people become free; and all of a sudden you’re beginning to think on a different plain because you are in the presence of God Almighty.  And when God Almighty is recognized as God Almighty and we affirm His presence, I mean to think about it right now you can be in the worse place you can imagine and yet the minute you start to say Lord I worship You.  You’re demanding His presence to be with you right there and then.

Sid:  So someone could be listening to us right now in prison and be freer than some others that are listening to us and their not…their just spectators, they’re not entering in; they’re in more prison than someone in a prison.

Renny:  One hundred percent, one hundred percent because God has come to them by reason of their worship.  He changes atmosphere, he changes lives, he touches all kinds of things; I mean it’s incredible; some of the most incredible things we have ever seen Sid is when we get people to the revelation of worship.

Sid:  How does someone lose four dress sizes in worship?  Explain it to me.

Renny:  Well, I’ll tell you how it happens because we’ve seen it so many times; I mean I need to really start saying a lot of things we’ve seen.  Cause we were one of the first folk to see it.  And what we found Sid, I can tell you the first time I ever saw it, we were worshiping God it was in the middle of a worship service and the glory of the Lord was present and this lady began to just worship worship she wasn’t thinking about it.  Now, this is something Sid I think that is really coming into my spirit as I talk to you right now.  Part of the problem with God’s people is is that we are thinking about our issues more than we are God.

Sid:  Okay, listen I’m guilty of that, coach me.  How can I stop it?

Renny:  Because we make our problems our idols when we…

Sid:  Oh, you just did it to me, you’re telling me that’s my idol, I’m dropping it.  Ha ha

Renny:  So the secret of it is is that we reached to a stage that where we literally taken ownership of it instead of letting go, you can’t let God until you let go.  To let go you let God be God.  And the woman, all she did was just worship.  She wasn’t thinking about her problem and its interesting God, when she was worshiping God, God was thinking of her.  Isn’t that incredible Sid?  When we were not thinking of Him, he was thinking of us.  My goodness —all of a sudden as she’s in service now and she just begins to worship God with no agenda, she just began to worship and as she began to worship it just began to just drop.  She couldn’t understand it her cloths just began to drop; she had to hold up her dress.

Sid:  Now, I mean you must have been shocked when this first started happening.

Renny:  Well, I’m going to be honest with you Sid; I was very shocked because I’d never heard of that before.  I mean I have seen people who have had a tumor you know, you know when people use to tumor years ago it can make a woman look bigger than normal; a tumor in certain places.  So I have seen God do those miracles, but to actually see weight loss, I mean I can tell you when we first saw it it was in 1998, you know and I can tell you; I can remember it as if it were yesterday.  This is how it was, it was in the atmosphere of worship, because when you are in the presence of God, if you think about it, when you are in the presence of God and you’re really seeing Jesus you are not really thinking about you.  You can’t be thinking of you because He has to become more real to you than you are.  And when we…and when that happens you can’t think of yourself.  Well, you just think of worshiping Him, because that is all we can do is just worship Him and that’s when the supernatural as it were becomes natural.

Sid:  It’s as if a Christian believer in Messiah is incomplete and a Jewish believer in the Messiah is incomplete.  But when the two spiritual DNA’s come together it makes a full dwelling place for God and forms the one new humanity; it’s a new species of being that has never existed previously.  And one of the things that concerned me and concerns my guest, Peter Horrobin and I’m speaking to him by way of telephone at his home and I believe it is Lancaster, England. 

Peter:  It is in deed and it’s great to speak to you Sid.

Sid:  Well, it’s been too long Peter, but one of my concerns and I know one of your concerns is when someone has a marvelous experience with the Lord and gets saved, it seems as though they carry the baggage that they had from before being saved, some they get rid of but they still have a lot of t his baggage.  And that’s never really addressed that much by the church and in fact, Jesus said, not to make converts, but to make disciples.  And what you teach is a missing element in what is taught in most discipleship that I know of in most churches.

Peter:  Well, I think that it is an absolutely vital element.  When Jesus was giving advice to the disciples in how to pray.  One of the things He said in what we call the Lord’s Prayer is that Your Kingdom come on earth and so often we look at becoming a believer and receiving Yeshua becoming born again of the Spirit of God as an escape as it were when we die into Heaven.  But when Jesus told the disciples to pray, He said Your kingdom come on earth.  Now kingdom means, the reign of a King and where the reign of the King is in place you have kingdom authority.  And when Jesus ministered healing to people he was ministering in the authority which He had because He was above all powers, above all other spiritual beings and He had absolute authority.  And so He told the disciples, you go and do the same.  You go and minister in my name, with my authority and you bring the Kingdom of God, the  power of the Spirit of God on earth to those that are in need. 

Sid:  Peter, the question that many good believers ask is “I know God can heal, I know God wants to heal, but how come it’s been year after year after year and I’ve prayed and I’ve stood by faith and people tell me I don’t have enough faith, but why am I not healed?”  People are saying that all over.  You have the answers.

Peter:  Yeah, many people are looking for healing, but you know one of the ladies that we prayed for over a long period of time and she came to a place half way through that process of healing.  She came with physicatric care to us originally and she got to a stage when she realized that she wouldn’t get any further until her relationship with Jesus was more important to her than her healing.  And many people…

Sid:  And you know, I don’t hear that enough, all I hear is you don’t have enough faith.  You have to mediate more on the promises. 

Peter:  Yeah, but somebody gets stressed up saying oh, you haven’t got enough faith.  But you see when we have that relationship with Jesus that’s really intimate and we want Him above all things and we want Him more than our healing, then actually He can speak to us about the things that need healing.  And many of the symptoms that people struggle with are caused by things that their not addressing.  So they want the symptoms dealt with, but they’re not addressing the real cause and sometimes deep in the heart there’s bitterness and unforgiveness, their relationships have gone sour.  There’s traumas they have experienced in the past and in a sense they buried them and say oh that’s the past, that’s the past I just want to be healed now.  And yet there is a link between the things that have happened to us and the present circumstances.  And yes, Jesus and His anointing could overcome all of that, but actually He wants us to exercise our own choice to walk in His way, to want what He gives us to give us the freedom that only He can give and that means we got to actually apply the truth of the Word of God in our lives.  In John 8:31 Jesus is talking to his disciples and He said the truth will set you free, but that sentence the truth will set you free is part of a much longer sentence and it begins with the word is.  And when you have the word is it means there’s something that you got to do in order to come into line in what’s being said.  And so He said if you hold to my teaching you’re really my disciples, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.  And so many of the people that are looking for healing, they’re looking to Jesus to come and heal the symptoms, oh Lord, increase my faith.  But actually they’re ignoring some of the teaching that Jesus gave.  And if they obey the teachings then they become disciples.  Then they know the truth and then they will discover the truth will set them free.

Sid:  You know I am so excited over your series that we are going to be making available, obviously a lot of other people are excited because you have twenty healing centers around the world and it’s growing all the time.  The thing that I want people to understand is how God hand trained you to disciple others so that they could be whole, so that they could fulfill their destiny.  I think that it’s kind of neat at four years old, your mother couldn’t find you one day; you were standing on a bucket preaching to a group of kids at four years old.  I was not thinking about preaching to a group of kids, especially being Jewish, but go ahead.

Peter:  Yeah, well I don’t think I went out to find a congregation, but I learned by watching my father and then in my heart I knew that what He was saying was true and so I gathered all the kids together and I began to tell them the same stories that my father was telling.  And when I went missing, all the other kids in the road were missing as well so there was a group of mothers all looking for their lost children and they discovered them all listening to me at the age of four. 

Sid:  And then you were restoring a sports car.  This was in about 1970 and you heard the audible voice of God which set almost in stone the course of your life, tell me about that.

Peter:  You know Sid, God speaks to you in the ordinary as well as in the spiritual and I think sometimes we try to divide the spiritual from the secular, but actually God doesn’t divide those at all.  Everything He created and where ever we are, we are in Him.  And so I was thinking about to rebuild an old sports car and when I got the car stripped down to the bare metal of the steel gutters, the chasse on which the car was built I saw that it was bent and you can’t drive a car with a bent chasse, you can’t stop it properly, you can’t steer it and I was in my mind twenties and I began to cry at the time.  Aw, I’ll never be able to rebuild this lovely old car and God was there right with me in the garage.  I didn’t expect Him, it was a shock and He spoke right into my spirit and He said, you could restore this broken car, but I can restore broken lives.  Then He asked me a question.  Which is more important?  I wanted to say that the car was more important, because I had put a lot of work into it; I knew that restoring broken lives was what God was putting into my spirit really for my personal destiny.  I’d been looking for it for years.

Sid:  But then, a few years later it got even more specific, you were helping a woman that was very, very distressed and you heard again from God.  Tell me about that.

Peter:  Yeah, I recently had been baptized in the Holy Spirit that God had come upon me in His spirit very much like it was at Pentecost in Acts chapter 2; I felt the fire of God burning within me.  And then shortly after that I was asked to help a lady who was very distressed.  She was crying, she couldn’t get her words out, she couldn’t express what her problem was and as I looked at her, God spoke to me right in my spirit and said, this woman is being sexually abused by a lodger in her own home and she’s too ashamed to tell you about it.  So you tell her that you know what her problem is.  I was quite embarrassed; I thought I can’t do this.  And yet I saw the distress in the woman’s face and I thought I am going to half to risk this, so this is my faith to actually risk telling this woman what God was saying.  I thought, if I got this wrong, this is going to be terrible, but it was right and every word I said she said was absolutely correct.  And she began a road to healing that night by forgiving the man who had abused her.  And I learned a huge lesson that night to listen to the voice of God and obey Him and Jesus said, if you love me you will obey me.  And I really loved Jesus and I went out on a limb in faith and said, okay Lord I’m going to do this and it was the beginning for me; all that vision for the car coming to fruition.  On the way home that night, God spoke again right into my spirit and said, I want you to spend the rest of your life bring healing to those in need and teaching others how to do it.  And actually that is the only reason that I’m talking to you today, Sid.

Sid:  Well, you have a supernatural gift to make these truths so clear and people go to your seminars at these centers all over the world and other places, but most people can’t do that and that’s why I’m so excited.  We have one of your series it’s called “The Freedom Series” that we’re making available and it covers areas that many Christians are familiar with but areas that most Christians don’t have a clue about.  And some of the areas that people have problems in like for instance you teach about freedom from trauma.  You teach about, freedom in your relationships and how you’re literally controlled by the past thru ungodly soul ties.  You teach about freedom from fear, you teach about people that have had these traumas like in a war situation or such as a situation or such as a situation the woman you just spoke about.  And then you show people how to get free, and once their free they walk into their destiny. 

Sid:  Now there’s an area that is not spoken about a lot and yet when you read the New Testament you see at least a third of Jesus’ Ministry was involved in this area.  And I think that one of reasons people don’t talk about it a lot is there’s a fear.  And I think the reason they have they have the fear is because of the devil.  The subject I’m talking about is deliverance and I’ve read a book, actually I was on my way to Israel and I started reading a book and I couldn’t put it down because there were such nuggets and such information about how to be the head and not the tail when it comes to deliverance and so many areas that people are affecting in by these spirits.  You know, you think in terms of just physical healing but it’s got to do with almost every problem and my guest would say it has to do with every problem you’re facing in life.  And there is a wonderful solution and fear should not even be in the acquasion when you realize who you are in the Messiah.  My guest, Mel Bond and Mel I’m really fascinated by the fact that in October of 1973 when you had your first vision of Jesus.  You got an introduction to the demonic tell me about that.

Mel:  Okay, well it was in 1973 in October and basically what happened is I went to sleep at night and I went into a dream and is you study the Bible real close you find that visions of the night and dreams are synonymous terms and so many people miss some real rich things of God because of the fact that they don’t realize that there are some dreams that are God ordained visions, spiritual encounters.  And so that’s what took place that I had this dream, vision, spiritual encounter and I saw Jesus.  He took me by the right hand He said, I want to take you some place and we walked through this large cave and I’ll never forget this throughout eternity and I remember looking up at Jesus.  I’m about 5’10” and so I would say He is about 6’1” or 6’2”or something like that and we began to walk through this cave and it was huge; it was absolutely huge, I won’t go into all the details of it, but I couldn’t even see the end of it and it looked like it might have been as much as a quarter of a mile wide maybe half mile wide, full of the most hideous demons you could ever imagine.  And it made me think of when I had this experience of why that people that take drugs and get really wiped out physically, why they die and I’m convinced because they see in the spirit world, because I have talked to a lot of those people that have come out and they see things and their seeing in the spirit world; and the spirit world the demonic spirit world is horrifying and so they die of fright.  And I would have, I’m a very brave person always have been, but this was horrifying.  It would scare you to death to see just one of these demons, their so hideous and they have a promotion of fear.

Sid:  Now, were you fearful?

Mel:  Absolutely, I absolutely was and there were just thousands of them and the noises, just the noise alone would scare someone to death and then to look at them if you only seen them and didn’t hear them it would scare you to death.  And satan is a demon of fear, his world is the world is the world of the fearful, it’s a fearful place.  And so anyway…

Sid:  And isn’t that the opposite of the realm were suppose to be in, the realm of faith in God’s Word?  It’s as if fear kind of neutralizes that.

Mel:  Yeah, absolutely that is the reason why I think the devil works overtime on getting ministries and people who walk in walk in love because if we walk in love love torments the devil and perfect love casteth out fear.  You know we find in 1 Corinthians Chapter 13 it talks about the nine gifts of the Spirit.  You’ve got enough faith to move a mountain, but all of this is in vain if you don’t walk in love.  And so the devil knows if he would fight the nine gifts of the Spirit that he’d have, you know he’d have nine fights on his battle, but if he would just fight us in love then all of the gifts of the Spirit are of no avail.   And so that’s his major target is to get people not to walk in God’s unconditional love.

Sid:  Okay, so you’re in this scene, I mean it sounds horrific you’re surrounded; it’s almost being in a circus of demons.  You are surrounded with all of these demons and their screaming and there yelling and what happens next?

Mel:  Well, this one particular demon that was probably I’d say he’s probably at least seven foot tall and if I was an artist I could still draw him.  And he was extremely hideous, the most hideous, the meanest and one that you would fear the most and I could remember he had real long fingers; I don’t know I’m guessing maybe eight or ten inches long something like that with fingernails probably four inches long and they were curved.  And he come running at me and swinging his hands in front of my face and it was like fractions of inches from striking my face and clawing my eyes out and ripping my face apart.  And when he immediately did that I felt Jesus grip my right hand because He had hold of my right hand with His left hand and I immediately looked up and then He spoke to me and he says the rest of your life you’re going to go down corridors like this that you are going to experience demonic forces; that never be afraid I’ll always be with you; and when he said that then the vision was gone.

Sid:  And since that time it seems as though your spiritual senses have been refined to such a point that you can see the invisible world and feel it and smell it.

Mel:  That’s right, that’s right and Sid I’m not saying this to be boastful or try to promote the fact I’m some kind of spiritual celebrity or something.  That I’m absolutely convinced that all of the gifts of the Spirit are for the entire body of Christ; they just don’t know it.  And I believe that I can teach people, I’m thoroughly convinced because it’s in the Bible and teach them to function with the gift of Discerning of spirits and that’s what this is to be able to with the five physical senses to be duplicated in the spiritual world and into the spirit world.  And so maybe by me talking about it they might be able to pick up some of it and that’s why in addition to the book that I thought was fabulous called “Understanding Your Worst Enemy.”  We have a special CD that were making available in which they will be activated in the Gift of Discernment and that is being able to use the Spiritual Senses as well.  Tell me, all right after this experience what was the first experience you had confronting demons?

Mel:  I can’t remember exactly the first one, but I can remember various ones that begin to stand out in my mind.  I can remember a particular time that there was probably just a couple of years after that that it was during the night session, and by the way I’m convinces that’s the reason why there’s more sin more evil that takes place during the night session.  The Bible talks about the rulers of darkness in this world in the book of Ephesians and if you notice there is more crime, more evil, more sinfulness during the night session and that’s when I see and have demonic experiences of perceiving and dealing with demonic forces.  But any way it was during the night session and I was awakened because of the fact I heard some footsteps in the house and sounded like, you know like a couple of people that were extremely heavy, you know maybe 250 – 300 pounds and their walking through the house and I’m hearing this.  So I hear the footsteps and they walk down the hallway and they walk into my bedroom and I see them standing there and they are these hideous my eyes hadn’t begun to focus towards the night and the darkness real well yet so I see these two figures.  It was very obvious they looked physical to me so I jumped out of my bed to defend my family and my household and started swinging with my fists and they just went right through them and they had these hideous laughs and so then my eyes adjusted to the night and I seen they were demonic forces, demonic demons and so I heard the Lord speak to me and He spoke, it’s amazing when God speaks to you that He can just give you volumes of information in micro seconds if there’s such a thing as micro second.  And but the Lord spoke to me and told me, He said these two demons are here because there’s a person who you’ve praying for that is bound by adultery and bound by alcohol and one of these demons I believe it was the demon on the right because this was way back many years ago probably around in the seventies maybe mid-late seventies and anyway I believe that it was the one on the right was the spirit of adultery and the one on the left was the spirit of alcohol and I’ve been dealing with this person for a few years.

Sid:  Now, did you know that those were to problems in that person’s life?

Mel:  I kind of perceived that, but wasn’t positive.  Alcohol was…

Sid:  Woops were out of time. 

Sid:  I have a man on the telephone and I have been waiting for this man for a long time.  I didn’t know him and for a matter of fact I only know him by telephone right now.  His name is Glenn Arekion and Glenn has been mentored by the Holy Spirit on the benefits in speaking in supernatural languages or the Bible refers to it as tongues.  And you say Sid, why have you been waiting so long?  It’s because tongues, supernatural languages have been demoted to the back room.  Now I want to find out a bit about Glen’s background.  At fourteen he became a believer and the thing that intrigues me the most about you Glen is you had your own sanctuary in your home.  Tell me about that.

Glenn:  Yes sir, when I first got saved two things that impacted my life was the integrity of God’s Word and then a prayer life, especially praying in the supernatural language.

Sid:  Now how did you even know to pray in that supernatural language?

Glenn: Well, because my church at that time placed an emphasis on, you know the walking in power and to walk in power you must be endued with power by the Holy Spirit and that comes by the evidence of praying tongues or supernatural language.

Sid:  But, did they tell you that and then you said well that makes sense so I’m going to do it, how did it actually play out with you?

Glenn:  Well, I heard about it because my pastor preached on the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of praying in the supernatural language or tongues.  And I said well, I know I’m born again but I need power for service I need power to be effective in my Christian life so when I went to the meeting and they called out for to receive the supernatural language and I went forward and I just by faith received it; and you know and just began to pray in that supernatural language which was when I was 14 ½ – 15 years old.

Sid:  Well, I became a believer at age 30 and I spoke a great deal in tongues because was it a Charismatic Movement and everyone was speaking in tongues.  I averaged about an hour a day but then gradually as the years went by I prayed less and less in tongues and I’m very sorry today.  If I only known what the value of it was, it literally will make you a superman in the Spirit. I never understood that.

Glenn:  It will change your life.

Sid:  How did you understand it?  That’s what I’m trying to figure out?

Glenn:  I understood it because I realized without speaking that supernatural language I had no power, I had no anointing.  When I partook of that language something changed inside of me.  Paul says that you’d be strengthened with might in your inner man because see real strength is not in the size of your muscles it’s in the size of your spirit.  Authority is in your spirit; power is in your spirit and the more that you begin to pray in tongues.  This is what you are building; you’re building your powerhouse.  I mean I understood that and I knew that I could create an atmosphere of power around me when I was 14-15 years old that if I could create an atmosphere of power inside of me and around me then you become like you said.  You become a superman and you are ready to be effective in the Kingdom of God.

Sid:  Okay, then explain something to me.  Why is this as you call it “literally the doorway into the supernatural” why has this been demoted to the back rooms of charismatic and even Pentecostal churches in general?

Glenn:  That is so true because see today, I mean there is a…we want to be politically correct, we want to be you know seeker friendly and we want to remove the Holy Ghost away from the church.  But if you remove the Holy Ghost from the church then you remove the power from the church.  And if you remove power from the church then there will not be any transformation.  And I don’t understand why in the Pentecostal Charismatic or circle of Spirit Filled Churches why we have walked away.

Sid:  Well, I understand why.  They’ve taken a look at the seeker sensitive churches, which are the most booming churches as far as growth and by the way I don’t want to put them down because they are reaching so many souls for the Lord.  But so these Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches are looking at the seeker sensitive, seeing them grow so much so they say well, maybe we should do the same thing.  That’s what I believe is going on.

Glenn:  Well, what I mean, worldwide revival came to pass because of tongues.  You know, the Azusa Street Revival or the Pentecostals’ Revival went around the world came because of tongues and came because of power and came because of great healings that took place.  And you can’t bring healing or can’t bring deliverance to a generation without the power of God; and you can’t have the power of God if you haven’t been endued with power from on High and if you’re not praying in the supernatural language that God gave us.

Sid:  Now, talk about supernatural, you’ve seen so many miracles take place. You’ve seen the blind be able to see the mute talk; you’ve seen people healed of cancer.

Glenn:  Yes,

Sid:  You told me that a dead person just came back to life a few days ago and speaking in supernatural languages triggered the power.  Tell me about that briefly.

Glenn:  This lady was.., the husband of the lady they are both pastors of a church up in Indiana and they got hold of a book on praying in supernatural language.  And they are tongue talkers and they believe in tongues and I just want to reunite that tongues into their life and she had a demonic attack the Saturday night before Sunday night church service.  She wasn’t feeling well in the day and in the night it got worse then all of a sudden she said to me something came and hit me and her husband who was there saw her drop down and the life drain out of her.  All of the color in her face was totally gone and she just gurgled and breathed her last breath.  But she’s been reading the book on tongues, that there is power and there is life when you begin to pray in tongues.  Just like there was a death assignment against the life of Peter from Herod who wanted to kill him.  But we can reverse any death assignment or we can reverse against every death attack of the enemy against our lives.  He began to blast in tongues just like the other church in the book of Acts the twelfth chapter when there was a death assignment against Peter.  They put in tongues that they prayed and they reversed the death assignment and he began to pray in tongues and his wife came back to life.  For which he was so glad that this stuff works, tongues.  There is power in supernatural language because when you are praying in tongues you’re speaking God’s language and when you’re speaking God’s language.  Jesus said, “The words that I speak they are Spirit and they are life.”  And as he prayed in tongues as he prayed a supernatural language over his wife, life went back and invaded death and his wife came back to life.

Sid:  Let me take you back to age fourteen.  You became a believer.  You took your bedroom as your own private sanctuary and you studied the Bible for hours and hours and you prayed in supernatural languages for hours and hours and what did your Mom say about your bedroom?

Glenn:  My Mom said that your room is very peaceful.  It has this supernatural atmosphere and I love to be in your room because there is no confusion in your room.  There is just peace in your room.

Sid:  Now however you had a cousin from Paris spend the night in your room and what happened?

Glenn:  Well, she came from Paris to visit us and my Mom said to me, I want you to go sleep in your brothers room and let your cousin sleep in that room.  And we didn’t know that she was demon possessed and about one o’clock in the morning she screamed and ran out and said I can’t sleep in that room; I can’t sleep in that room and she was just manifesting demonic powers, you know that that demon inside of her could not stand the atmosphere of God, that Holy Ghost atmosphere or that holy atmosphere in that room and she began to scream and yell.

Sid:  I mean how would you like to have the atmosphere of Heaven, supernatural peace in your bedroom every night?  Can you imagine what you’re dreams would be like?  Can you imagine how you would be hearing from God?  And we are so excited because we are releasing the brand new book “The Power of Praying in Tongues.”  Although it’s brand new, Glen you’re getting reports of well, how about that man whose wife came back from being dead, just from having read the book?  But you know what?   We called your CD and we have a bonus CD whe’re offering with your book, we call it you’re personal trainer for the supernatural.  And you list 101 reasons why to pray in tongues; and I’m going to tell you something, just as in the natural some people where physical exercise has personal trainers, can you imagine Glenn if every Christian listening to us right now had a personal trainer to get them to speak in supernatural languages and want to motivate them to want to do this.  I believe the United States of America’s destiny would be changed.  I don’t think I’m being presumptuous when I say that.  What do you think?

Glenn:  I totally agree with you, not only will it change the life of the believer and it will change the life and it will shake up the church to a higher level of power and anointing.  And when the church is on the move the nation will be on the move too.  See, if we don’t have power in the church and if we don’t have power in the believer, if we don’t have authority and the anointing of God to bring about results;  cause  the name of the game is to bring results; and that is what supernatural language will do.  It will bring about great results just like in the book of Acts.  That the scripture says these people turned the world upside down.  Why?  Because they had the power and power came by the supernatural languages that they spoke.  And yes, the country will change; the destiny of America will change.  It happened before as Azusa…

Sid:  How about the destiny of…we don’t have to get as big as America, how about the destiny of their entire family will change?

Glenn:  Yes sir, yes sir.  Look at how Azusa changed the whole spiritual atmosphere over America.  Right?  If you begin to have that, you begin to have your own personal Azusa in your own home or in your own church.

Sid:  Well Mishpochah I want you to have Glenn Arekion as your personal trainer for the supernatural.  I want you to get this book, I’m going to tell you by the time you finish this book and listen to this CD if you don’t speak in tongues you’ll be speaking in tongues.  And if you do but you haven’t been doing it much.  You will become a superman or superwoman in the spirit.